Refusing to recognise the validity of newly issued UK passports

[jrtmedic]

davidstipek

Thanks

How do you suggest the Embassy Stamp (which certifies authenticity) is obtained.

[davidstipek]

davidstipek

Thanks

How do you suggest the Embassy Stamp (which certifies authenticity) is obtained.

Ther are multiple Consular's Offices arround Thailand. Ask them. Or Mr. Larry Cunningham. You may oly be required to let them make copies of Both Passports and have you sign copies so they can Overnight to Embassy with return to your Residence @ their Expense!

[wouldbefarmer]

I renewed my passport last December and the local Immigration Office transferred my extension of stay and reentry permit with no letter and no hassles.

The letter is nonsense and unlike the passports can easily be forged. Immigration has details on current and previous versions of UK passports (including electronically) and thus it should be relatively easy to confirm if the passport is genuine or otherwise.

My guess would be that those missions who supply the "guarantee letter" are doing so to help their nationals even though it is meaningless.

[davidstipek]

I agree as a Poster said Voting would be meaning less in this issue to get any results.

Also the statement that this letter is a Crock! Is unfounded... For your Knolledge... Everyone else has to follow this step... What really makes you above the law

Also If it cost yoy extra to aquire this Mandated letter. I would submit a Bill Due with copies of your Receipts. Every month they fail to make payment, I would resubmit and add a Past due amount of 3% as a last fee.

If they refuse to pay Sue.. You can get letters from Thai Immigration on the required process and that everyother Visitor from every other Country that is in same circumstance is complying... They get enough of these on their Desk! Heads will fly in HK, doing Half Assed Job... Gets a Honest Citizens Response!!

I might add quicker then any Voting will do...

Edited September 2, 2013 by davidstipek

[jrtmedic]

davidstipek

Thanks

How do you suggest the Embassy Stamp (which certifies authenticity) is obtained.

Ther are multiple Consular's Offices arround Thailand. Ask them. Or Mr. Larry Cunningham. You may oly be required to let them make copies of Both Passports and have you sign copies so they can Overnight to Embassy with return to your Residence @ their Expense!

Thanks for your "expert" advise!

Cunningham is an Hon Con for Australia so is about as much use as a chocolate teapot to a Brit !

"Ther are multiple Consular's Offices arround Thailand." (sic)

Perhaps you would kindly name the "multiple" British Consular offices to be found in Thailand ?

Thanks

Edited September 2, 2013 by jrtmedic

[davidstipek]

I renewed my passport last December and the local Immigration Office transferred my extension of stay and reentry permit with no letter and no hassles.

The letter is nonsense and unlike the passports can easily be forged. Immigration has details on current and previous versions of UK passports (including electronically) and thus it should be relatively easy to confirm if the passport is genuine or otherwise.

My guess would be that those missions who supply the "guarantee letter" are doing so to help their nationals even though it is meaningless.

Letter is not Meaningless... It provides a Backup if Passort is later proven Fake, of why it was accepted. Also I can assure you that these letters are Verified to their Origin. Thai have many more forms then we as Farang seem to deem necessary, but like in anything else here it is Thailand, If you want to stay here you must comply... That easy

"If you Drive on the right side of the road a home, who's fault is it if you have accident here while trying to mimic your actions at home" Laws are Laws!

[DagonKhan]

I renewed my passport last December and the local Immigration Office transferred my extension of stay and reentry permit with no letter and no hassles.

The letter is nonsense and unlike the passports can easily be forged. Immigration has details on current and previous versions of UK passports (including electronically) and thus it should be relatively easy to confirm if the passport is genuine or otherwise.

My guess would be that those missions who supply the "guarantee letter" are doing so to help their nationals even though it is meaningless.

Letter is not Meaningless... It provides a Backup if Passort is later proven Fake, of why it was accepted. Also I can assure you that these letters are Verified to their Origin. Thai have many more forms then we as Farang seem to deem necessary, but like in anything else here it is Thailand, If you want to stay here you must comply... That easy

"If you Drive on the right side of the road a home, who's fault is it if you have accident here while trying to mimic your actions at home" Laws are Laws!

I seriously doubt it's a law. We've had numerous examples in this topic which clearly demonstrate it's not.

It's somebody in Immigration being anal, nothing more and nothing less. Let's not make excuses eh?

[HerbalEd]

Very idiotic indeed. Creating a fake embassy letter is a lot easier than creating a fake passport.

[hhgz]

"I understand that this is not a new requirement...It cannot be the responsibility of individual citizens to acquire documents that validate their own passports."

Of course it is your responsibility and, since you knew of the requirement, there's no excuse for your concern.

[BudRight]

@hhgz

The passport and its validity is an issue for governments. Rejection of the passport is a specific diplomatic act. It says 'I do not believe your country exists.'

It would only be the responsibility of the holder if they were part of the apparatus of State. If my passport was not recognized I would do the following.

1. Identify the agent of the foreign government (Thai in this case) that did not recognize the document. Full name, number and contact details. I would request a formal rejection letter as well.

2. Contact my embassy explaining that their passport was not recognized and provide the aforementioned details.

I've been through of all this crap when I went to Syria. The Syrian embassy wanted a letter of endorsement from my embassy before they would issue my visa. When I requested such a letter I was told no such special letters are issued because the passport IS such an endorsement. When I returned to the Syrian embassy they made no mention of the letter and my visa was issued promptly.

Edited September 2, 2013 by BudRight

[jpinx]

@hhgz

The passport and its validity is an issue for governments. Rejection of the passport is a specific diplomatic act. It says 'I do not believe your country exists.'

It would only be the responsibility of the holder if they were part of the apparatus of State. If my passport was not recognized I would do the following.

1. Identify the agent of the foreign government (Thai in this case) that did not recognize the document. Full name, number and contact details. I would request a formal rejection letter as well.

2. Contact my embassy explaining that their passport was not recognized and provide the aforementioned details.

I've been through of all this crap when I went to Syria. The Syrian embassy wanted a letter of endorsement from my embassy before they would issue my visa. When I requested such a letter I was told no such special letters are issued because the passport IS such an endorsement. When I returned to the Syrian embassy they made no mention of the letter and my visa was issued promptly.

They used to pull that kind of stunt on me when I was working in Egypt. Usually it was a round-about way of seeing if you were going to offer the guy some cash incentive. The other more subtle reason was to test your reaction and see what you will do.

[KittenKong]

New rules, old rules, no rules. I dont know which applies but here is my recent experience just in case it helps anyone:

Left Thailand in June with a re-entry stamp and a retirement extension valid until September 1.

Had a new passport issued in the UK (much cheaper and quicker than doing it via HongKong).

Entered Thailand on new passport still in June, showing retirement extension stamp and re-entry stamp in old passport.

Was given a permission to stay in new passport until October 15 (?).

Went to Jomtien immigration the day before expiry of retirement extension to get it renewed. Them: "you can stay till October 15, come back then". Me: "but my extension runs out now". Them: "oh".

Immigration made a note in Thai in my new passport with the details of my old visa and stamped a retirement extension valid one day to the new passport. Then the next day they did the new retirement extension for one year based solely on the details in the new passport.

No letters or receipts requested or provided (apart from the usual bank letter), and total cost 1900B as usual. Plus about 3 small forests' worth of photocopies.

YMMV

[NCC1701A]

Slightly different take on this subject. i had a brand new US passport issued to me in the US a few years ago. Upon arrival in BKK, the immigration person kept looking at my passport and saying "your passport is new, your passport is new." It was a big problem for her. I am always super nice and smile and kept saying, "Yes I just got it." Like a kid with a new toy. All smiles and acting like this is great. Smile. No problems.

Anyway this went on for 10 minutes. She would just keep playing with my passport and looking at it like she had never seen anything like it before. She looked like she was deciding to arrest me or not. Finally she stamps it and off I go. My friends are wondering what took so long.

[jpinx]

Slightly different take on this subject. i had a brand new US passport issued to me in the US a few years ago. Upon arrival in BKK, the immigration person kept looking at my passport and saying "your passport is new, your passport is new." It was a big problem for her. I am always super nice and smile and kept saying, "Yes I just got it." Like a kid with a new toy. All smiles and acting like this is great. Smile. No problems.

Anyway this went on for 10 minutes. She would just keep playing with my passport and looking at it like she had never seen anything like it before. She looked like she was deciding to arrest me or not. Finally she stamps it and off I go. My friends are wondering what took so long.

She was waiting for you to ask her for her mobile number You are obviously a hansum man and girls in uniforms love you long time

[chrisartist]

I'll wait for another three or four days, to give UK citizens a chance to post, then I'll collect the data.

To those UK citizens who have replied so far to say which regional immigration office has required them to furnish a letter from the British Consulate, thanks very much. I appreciate it.

It would also help me to know which immigration offices have *not* required a letter from the British Consulate when you have tried to get them to recognise a newly issued passport.

[evadgib]

The knock on effect of the scaremongering in this thread will likely be that all nationals @ all offices will have to produce a letter because chicken-licken declared publicly that the sky was falling in....

Edited September 3, 2013 by evadgib

[KittenKong]

It would also help me to know which immigration offices have *not* required a letter from the British Consulate when you have tried to get them to recognise a newly issued passport.

Jomtien. At least for me.

I do wonder if part of the reason they didnt ask me for a letter was because they (or rather Immigration at BKK) had already accepted the validity of the new passport by stamping my permission to stay in it when I entered. Hard to see how another office could reasonably backstep on that once it is a fait accompli.

I suppose that BKK could have just ignored my re-entry permit and given me 30 days on arrival and told me to do the entire visa and extension afresh in Jomtien, but thankfully they didnt!

[Commander Tamson]

Good luck at the British Embassy, the world's most unhelpful consular staff, with penty of hostile attitude for afters.

p.s. no chance of dealing with a British national, although if you did they probably would be not much better.

p.p.s I am British.

The British Consul in BKK [Kate Dufall] is one of the nicest and most helpful people I have ever met - she's Australian btw. The rest of the staff though........well let's say that Briggsy is not too far off the mark.

[connda]

"It cannot be the responsibility of individual citizens to acquire documents that validate their own passports."

It is whatever your regional immigration offices says it is. Who are you (or any of us for that matter) to say otherwise. If your regional immigration office wants you to stand on one leg while playing a violin and singing the Thai National Anthem at the top of you voice is order to get service, guess what you (and the rest of us) are going to do?
"bra thet thai ruam lueard nuea chart chuea thai ............."

Edited September 3, 2013 by connda

[KittenKong]

If your regional immigration office wants you to stand on one leg while playing a violin and singing the Thai National Anthem at the top of you voice is order to get service, guess what you (and the rest of us) are going to do?

Go live somewhere else? I'm pretty sure I would.

[SICHONSTEVE]

For what it is worth to you, I am not a british citize, but swedish!!! I just got my new passport lastweek ,and my

embassy ALWAYS enclose a letter addressed to the immigration, where they kindly ask the immigration to transfer

the stamps involved..

Maybe this is a polite thing to do, and you lack that polite document.... I dont know just wanted to be helpful,

and tell you about my situation.....

Glegolo

The UK authorities do not enclose such a document when they send new passports. The Swedish government would seem to take its responsibilities towards its citizens seriously. The solution you cite is one of a number that I had determined to include in my letter. Thanks for your helpful comment.

I went to England o get my new passport and then sent it off to get a 1 year multi-entry non "o" visa put in it (no need to transfer the visa stamp) - I have returned to Thailand and no problems were encountered. It seems that the transferance of the stamp into the new passport from the old one is the issue and I was simply lucky that they both coincided and it went smoothly.

[TheSpade]

I arrived back in Thailand recently with a brand spanking new UK passport. No issues with them not knowing whether it was valid or not. The issue can't surely just be with them not recognising the new passports.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I arrived back in Thailand recently with a brand spanking new UK passport. No issues with them not knowing whether it was valid or not. The issue can't surely just be with them not recognising the new passports.

So did I last week with an unused bio-metric passport - similarly, no questions asked at all.

[lopburi3]

It is a diplomatic nicety to provide such a letter. Having a locally recorded name/signature helps to prove passport has been officially issued so is likely the original reason for it being asked.

[JLCrab]

I think if you go back to the first page the problem encountered is with regional Immigration Offices and transferring extensions of stay to a new passport -- not showing up at the airport with a new passport maybe with a tourist visa.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I think if you go back to the first page the problem encountered is with regional Immigration Offices and transferring extensions of stay to a new passport -- not showing up at the airport with a new passport maybe with a tourist visa.

Agreed,

I got a new passport whilst in England and when that arrived in the post I sent away for and got my non "o" visa put into my new passport. I didn't get a letter with my new passport but simply showed my old, full and almost expired passport (with the cover corner cut off) simulataneously.

[chrisartist]

It is a diplomatic nicety to provide such a letter. Having a locally recorded name/signature helps to prove passport has been officially issued so is likely the original reason for it being asked.

Such "diplomatic niceties" are not necessary. Passports wear their validity on their faces, due to the information embedded within them in the form of passport number, watermarks and biometric data. UK passports are produced to international standards. Passport readers that conform to international standards can read them. Valid passport numbers are stored in internationally accessible databases.

Foreign citizens are not to be treated like errand boys and girls just because the Thai Immigration Police do not have the capability to read passport data properly. The problem lies *entirely* with the Thai Immigration Police and by refusing to recognise the validity of newly issued passports, they are snubbing the worldwide community. Al they ned to do is spend a bit of money that they glean from their extortionate fees for multiple re-entry permits on installing computers in each regional office that can access the international database of valid passports.

Actually, on reflection, I think there are two issues here:

1) Is a letter of certification from the consulate required?

2) Is it the responsibility of the individual citizen to procure such a letter?

I think the answer to both of these is "No". The answer to (1) is "No" because the passport is the relevant document, not any letter (incidentally, more easily forged than a passport) of certification. Even if the answer to (1) were "Yes", or even if such a letter might be desired as a diplomatic nicety, the answer to (2) would still be "No" because if the Thai Immigration Police want such a letter, they need to get it themselves. They cannot use foreign citizens as errand boys and girls. In the case of UK citizens, there is an additional practical problem. There are only two consulates in Thailand: Chiang Mai (honorary) and Bangkok. What are people who live in Nong Khai or Hat Yai supposed to do?

Edited September 6, 2013 by chrisartist

[chrisartist]

I arrived back in Thailand recently with a brand spanking new UK passport. No issues with them not knowing whether it was valid or not. The issue can't surely just be with them not recognising the new passports.

Please tell us what regional office of the Thai Immigration Police your post applies to. Thanks very much.

[chrisartist]

"It cannot be the responsibility of individual citizens to acquire documents that validate their own passports."

It is whatever your regional immigration offices says it is. Who are you (or any of us for that matter) to say otherwise. If your regional immigration office wants you to stand on one leg while playing a violin and singing the Thai National Anthem at the top of you voice is order to get service, guess what you (and the rest of us) are going to do?

"bra thet thai ruam lueard nuea chart chuea thai ............."

"It is whatever your regional immigration offices says it is."

----Not so. This is a matter of internationally agreed diplomatic convention. The *passport* is the thing. That is the essential document. If a letter from the consulate is required, there is no need for passports and the entire worldwide passport system becomes a farce.

[JLCrab]

The recognition of a new passport for purposes of transferring an existing extension or visa valid for additional entry is a courtesy granted by Thai Immigration and is in no way obligated by any UN Convention on Human Rights or any other international agreement. That is why many Embassies and Consuls provide the letter as in the UK Embassy Letter referenced earlier wherein it states that "The British Embassy would be most grateful if ..."

The Thai Immigration persons could just as well say:

"Upon getting a new passport and your old passport now being invalid, any existing visas and/or extensions in your old passport are now also invalid. Have a nice day."

Edited September 6, 2013 by JLCrab