Syria's Assad says Western strike could trigger regional war

[Chicog]

Please mods, allow this to stay as it poses a wonderful contrast to Putin's op ed in the NYT:

Golmert, Bachman and King in Egypt letting the Egyptians know that the Muslim Brotherhood was behind 9/11:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQby4mhNomA

The only reason I am posting it here is to illustrate that 'proof' very often isn't when one has an agenda, like the 'proof' that Assad used chemical weapons and is hiding them in Lebanon.

If he did either or both then prove it - don't draw red lines, threaten to bomb and escalate an already nasty situation.

Yeah, you're right Sing Sing. They should come out and say they have a mole in the Syrian security services getting them intel.

After all, they can always get another one if the Syrians execute him, can't they?

[JDGRUEN]

You know ... I have read most all of these posts on this topic thread- many are reasoned - some not - all opinionated - some filled with good analysis and information. Plus I have read dozens of news articles on the subjects. And -- all in all - I find no justification for American military involvement in Syria primarily because the evidence and issues are so clouded and contradictory.

Even if the situation were crystal clear the whole intervention idea is dubious. No we don't as civilized people want anyone to use chemical weapons of mass destruction again people. But investing lives and treasure into such a nasty sink hole is out of the question in my opinion.

Note: with such huge stockpiles of nasty chemicals described in Syria - wonder if much of it came from Iraq? Surely not - since there wasn't any / sarcasm off..

I for one am quite pleased that Putin came up with the 'diplomatic solution' - even if it doesn't work out in the end. What is has done is stop obama in his tracks, now the U.S. Congress will likely vote no on a military strike or not vote at all ... leaving obama hanging and hopefully forcing him off to deal with scandals and domestic issues - such as the impossible budget in the light of debt limits. Which brings up the question - we have had 'sequester' of the Military Budget and many cut backs to deal with that - so how is it that the U.S. is supposed to pay for more expensive military adventurism ? Makes no sense to me .... Tours of the White House are cut off due to sequester of funds and the government is wanting to pay for multi-million dollar cruise missiles to be launched by the dozens ... The U.S. Government has gone insane ....

The whole Syrian mess is a huge Mud Pie filled with noxious bugs salted in like raisins in a cookie. The entire Syrian fiasco is so unappealing - even worse than the Libyan disaster - nothing about it portends a good outcome regardless of what is done or not done. The noxious bugs crawling around in Syria are worse than the dictator. (All the above said IMHO - cross posted).

Best solution for 'noxious bugs crawling around in Syria' ?

You understand the irony JDGRUEN?

Not your version of irony Singlepot... I just read a report that the "Al Qaeda faction in Syria announces offensive on fellow rebels" posted on another topic thread ... Sounds like Noxious Bugs to me ... not the chemical kind - but the real terrorist kind as I was referring to ...

You know Singlepot I have noticed in this thread and other topic threads you make tangential references to some aspect that only you seem to know about ... how about just some plain talk ? ... works wonders ...

[simple1]

If anyone needs any further evidence of the foolishness of western intervention in the Syrian civil war; We now have the latest episode in this "Allah-who's Awkbar" free-for-all is being reported by Reuters:

"Al Qaeda faction in Syria announces offensive on fellow rebels", Reuters, Sep 13, 2013

"Al Qaeda-linked rebels in Syria have declared an offensive against two other insurgent factions, underlining growing turmoil and infighting in the 2-1/2-year-old conflict."

Nothing new, some of the extremist factions have previously been fighting each other for control of territory, not just Al Qaeda aligned groups fighting the Free Syria Army forces for control. As previously posted some Sunni tribal groups have been taking on the extremists as they do not accept the extremist’s agenda, similar to the US assisted Sunni Awakening movement in Iraq. As you know US/NATO has been training the Free Syrian Army in Turkey & Jordon to assist with increasing their effectiveness against the Assad regime and extremists. It is critical that the Free Syrian Army is supported in their efforts to take on Islamic extremists, such as Al Qaeda aligned groups.

For those who are crowing about Putin’s chemical weapons initiative & putting down Obama; last night in a CNN interview the Russian Ambassador to the EU confirmed there were multiple lines of bi lateral communications with the US reviewing the proposed initiative prior to Putin's announcement.

[JDGRUEN]

If anyone needs any further evidence of the foolishness of western intervention in the Syrian civil war; We now have the latest episode in this "Allah-who's Awkbar" free-for-all is being reported by Reuters:

"Al Qaeda faction in Syria announces offensive on fellow rebels", Reuters, Sep 13, 2013

"Al Qaeda-linked rebels in Syria have declared an offensive against two other insurgent factions, underlining growing turmoil and infighting in the 2-1/2-year-old conflict."

Nothing new, some of the extremist factions have previously been fighting each other for control of territory, not just Al Qaeda aligned groups fighting the Free Syria Army forces for control. As previously posted some Sunni tribal groups have been taking on the extremists as they do not accept the extremist’s agenda, similar to the US assisted Sunni Awakening movement in Iraq. As you know US/NATO has been training the Free Syrian Army in Turkey & Jordon to assist with increasing their effectiveness against the Assad regime and extremists. It is critical that the Free Syrian Army is supported in their efforts to take on Islamic extremists, such as Al Qaeda aligned groups.

For those who are crowing about Putin’s chemical weapons initiative & putting down Obama; last night in a CNN interview the Russian Ambassador to the EU confirmed there were multiple lines of bi lateral communications with the US reviewing the proposed initiative prior to Putin's announcement.

Sounds like some good CYA for the obama Administration ... create some line of cover and excuse for obama's total abject failure on Syria... Typical obamabot loyalists

[Credo]

This is terrible to say, but has anybody else noticed that since this mess started in Syria, many of the other problems seem quite manageable?

When the Iran-Iraq war was raging, it also seemed that all the bad people focused their attention on that situation.

Is it me or is it just the media that forgets about reporting other stuff?

By the way, I am referring to leaving much of the Western world alone.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Credo

[Scott]

The thread is about Syria. It is not about US politics. Continued off-topic posting will result in suspension.

There is an entire thread about Obama's speech if you wish to discuss you love/hate for him.

Posts deleted.

[lomatopo]

U.S., Russia reach agreement on seizure of Syrian chemical weapons arsenal

GENEVA — The United States and Russia agreed Saturday on a plan to bring Syrian chemical weapons under international control, a rare diplomatic victory in a brutal civil war that appears to head off a punitive U.S. military strike on Syria in the near future.

In announcing the deal, Secretary of State John F. Kerry and his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, said the agreement would be backed by a U.N. Security Council resolution that could allow for sanctions or other consequences if Syria fails to comply.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-russia-reach-agreement-on-seizure-of-syrian-chemical-weapons-arsenal/2013/09/14/69e39b5c-1d36-11e3-8685-5021e0c41964_story.html

[boomerangutang]

Sounds like some good CYA for the obama Administration ... create some line of cover and excuse for obama's total abject failure on Syria... Typical obamabot loyalists

No failure on Obama's role in this. Without the US threat to strike, there wouldn't be talk of destroying Syria's 1,000 tons of poison weapons.

I think the thought of having his chemi weapons bombed (plus the ensuing clouds of toxins), kept Assad awake at night. I hope he continues to sleep restlessly, in whatever bunkers he's holed up in, for as many nights as it takes to destroy his toxic arsenal.

[SinglePot]

Sounds like some good CYA for the obama Administration ... create some line of cover and excuse for obama's total abject failure on Syria... Typical obamabot loyalists

No failure on Obama's role in this. Without the US threat to strike, there wouldn't be talk of destroying Syria's 1,000 tons of poison weapons.

I think the thought of having his chemi weapons bombed (plus the ensuing clouds of toxins), kept Assad awake at night. I hope he continues to sleep restlessly, in whatever bunkers he's holed up in, for as many nights as it takes to destroy his toxic arsenal.

+1

( just be a bit cautious about toxic and arsenal in the same sentence. You might offend our excellent poster Chicog who shoots with a straight gun.)

Edited September 15, 2013 by SinglePot

[Publicus]

You know ... I have read most all of these posts on this topic thread- many are reasoned - some not - all opinionated - some filled with good analysis and information. Plus I have read dozens of news articles on the subjects. And -- all in all - I find no justification for American military involvement in Syria primarily because the evidence and issues are so clouded and contradictory.

Even if the situation were crystal clear the whole intervention idea is dubious. No we don't as civilized people want anyone to use chemical weapons of mass destruction again people. But investing lives and treasure into such a nasty sink hole is out of the question in my opinion.

Note: with such huge stockpiles of nasty chemicals described in Syria - wonder if much of it came from Iraq? Surely not - since there wasn't any / sarcasm off..

I for one am quite pleased that Putin came up with the 'diplomatic solution' - even if it doesn't work out in the end. What is has done is stop obama in his tracks, now the U.S. Congress will likely vote no on a military strike or not vote at all ... leaving obama hanging and hopefully forcing him off to deal with scandals and domestic issues - such as the impossible budget in the light of debt limits. Which brings up the question - we have had 'sequester' of the Military Budget and many cut backs to deal with that - so how is it that the U.S. is supposed to pay for more expensive military adventurism ? Makes no sense to me .... Tours of the White House are cut off due to sequester of funds and the government is wanting to pay for multi-million dollar cruise missiles to be launched by the dozens ... The U.S. Government has gone insane ....

The whole Syrian mess is a huge Mud Pie filled with noxious bugs salted in like raisins in a cookie. The entire Syrian fiasco is so unappealing - even worse than the Libyan disaster - nothing about it portends a good outcome regardless of what is done or not done. The noxious bugs crawling around in Syria are worse than the dictator. (All the above said IMHO - cross posted).

A great number of posters here have spent a lot of time believing what they read in mass media concerning Assad and Syria. I agree with an earlier post that in the West the mass media have done a lot of thinking for people concerning the plausibility and the viability of the Assad family and regime.

The Western mass media had been kind and benevolent towards Assad and his family, only recently changing their collective mind and recanting their support and praise of Assad, to include his wife.

So it is difficult for many to overcome the long media campaign in the West that consistently had presented Assad, his family and his regime in only positive ways.

A lot of people in the West are stuck in this rut of the positive media campaign over a period of time, which helps to know and understand why so many Western governments and publics are reluctant to become involved in the war crimes of the Assad regime during the past 30 consecutive months.

The Western conservative political elites in particular have allowed mass media to influence their views of Assad and his Syria.

Assad has always been able to skillfully parry Western journalists' criticisms of his regime -- and, at times, it has won him positive international coverage. Before the uprising, the U.S. media often described the Assad family as Westernized leaders who were trying to bring their country into the 21st century. The most infamous example was Vogue's profile of Asma al-Assad, which described Syria's first lady as "a thin, long-limbed beauty with a trained analytic mind ... [with] a killer IQ." But even experts in the field went along: Middle East historian David Lesch wrote a biography of Bashar describing the president as a modernizer, before changing his mind during the uprising.

How Assad Wooed the American Right, and Won the Syria Propaganda War

The carnage over the past two and a half years put an end to much of this praise -- but now pro-Assad media outlets have found a new way to influence the American debate.

Assad supporters' claims have repeatedly been republished unquestioningly by right-wing commentators in the United States, who share their hostility toward both Sunni Islamists and the Obama administration.

It's a strange alliance between American conservatives and a regime that was one of America's first designated state sponsors of terror, and continues to work closely with Iran and Hezbollah.

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/09/10/how_assad_wooed_the_american_right_and_won_the_syria_propaganda_war

[Publicus]

U.S., Russia reach agreement on seizure of Syrian chemical weapons arsenal

GENEVA — The United States and Russia agreed Saturday on a plan to bring Syrian chemical weapons under international control, a rare diplomatic victory in a brutal civil war that appears to head off a punitive U.S. military strike on Syria in the near future.

In announcing the deal, Secretary of State John F. Kerry and his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov, said the agreement would be backed by a U.N. Security Council resolution that could allow for sanctions or other consequences if Syria fails to comply.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/us-russia-reach-agreement-on-seizure-of-syrian-chemical-weapons-arsenal/2013/09/14/69e39b5c-1d36-11e3-8685-5021e0c41964_story.html

The bottom line is that Putin's Number One pal in the Middle East, Bashir Assad remains in power because the rebels the CIA has just begun to arm and train are being subjected to Assad's air force and heavy artillery, both provided by Putin.

The Putin-Obama CW deal is a veritable cornucopia of meaningless process that appears very weighty. The admin will generate countless meetings which will be held with great solemnity. Skeptics will be told that officials are doing their level best to make the world a little better. The usual suspects will tell us that our statesmen tripped a bit but landed in a good place. They manage to diminish Assad and make Putin 'a stakeholder in a valuable process. Nonsense!

The mob analogy explains what actually happened:

Dad just mortgaged the family business to John Gotti, who was all smiles during the deal. Mr. Gotti took the plushest office. Gotti will start putting the screws to Dad soon, but nobody will admit it, b/c that would only humiliate Dad further. An army of pundits will explain how Gotti is more 'complex' than simpletons believe. And Dad is 'sophisticated.'

Dad is as virtuous as a dove but as savvy as a serpent, so he can turn Gotti's venality into a virtue. And to help make the point there will be endless process. Meetings, pronouncements, initiatives, consultations. Dad will put on a good show in public. You'll never see his head pressed on a work bench and his arm twisted up behind his back."

The Syrian Chemical Weapons Deal Is Nothing More Than A Face-Saving Stalling Tactic

The U.S. and Russia have reached a deal to hand over Assad's chemical weapons stockpiles to the international community for their removal and destruction.

This move allows the U.S. to save face, and it has at least temporarily postponed a U.S. military attack on Syria. But the Syria problem is obviously far from solved.

In all likelihood, the complete removal and destruction of chemical weapons is a pipe dream.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/syria-chemical-weapons-agreement-2013-9#ixzz2evm9kxBA

Edited September 15, 2013 by Publicus

[Publicus]

If anyone needs any further evidence of the foolishness of western intervention in the Syrian civil war; We now have the latest episode in this "Allah-who's Awkbar" free-for-all is being reported by Reuters:

"Al Qaeda faction in Syria announces offensive on fellow rebels", Reuters, Sep 13, 2013

"Al Qaeda-linked rebels in Syria have declared an offensive against two other insurgent factions, underlining growing turmoil and infighting in the 2-1/2-year-old conflict."

Nothing new, some of the extremist factions have previously been fighting each other for control of territory, not just Al Qaeda aligned groups fighting the Free Syria Army forces for control. As previously posted some Sunni tribal groups have been taking on the extremists as they do not accept the extremist’s agenda, similar to the US assisted Sunni Awakening movement in Iraq. As you know US/NATO has been training the Free Syrian Army in Turkey & Jordon to assist with increasing their effectiveness against the Assad regime and extremists. It is critical that the Free Syrian Army is supported in their efforts to take on Islamic extremists, such as Al Qaeda aligned groups.

For those who are crowing about Putin’s chemical weapons initiative & putting down Obama; last night in a CNN interview the Russian Ambassador to the EU confirmed there were multiple lines of bi lateral communications with the US reviewing the proposed initiative prior to Putin's announcement.

Sounds like some good CYA for the obama Administration ... create some line of cover and excuse for obama's total abject failure on Syria... Typical obamabot loyalists

In slightly more than one line of text, Prez Obama by name is criticized three times.

It's been more than clear for a long time what the support for Putin and Assad is all about.

[lomatopo]

No failure on Obama's role in this.

Well, one could point out that it was Obama who basically got himself all tripped up beginning back on August 20, 2102:

Q: "Mr. President, could you update us on your latest thinking of where you think things are in Syria, and in particular, whether you envision using U.S. military, if simply for nothing else, the safekeeping of the chemical weapons, and if you're confident that the chemical weapons are safe?"

A: "... I have, at this point, not ordered military engagement in the situation. But the point that you made about chemical and biological weapons is critical. That’s an issue that doesn’t just concern Syria; it concerns our close allies in the region, including Israel. It concerns us. We cannot have a situation where chemical or biological weapons are falling into the hands of the wrong people.

We have been very clear to the Assad regime, but also to other players on the ground, that a red line for us is we start seeing a whole bunch of chemical weapons moving around or being utilized. That would change my calculus. That would change my equation. ..."

Clearly he was more concerned about these weapons falling into rebel hands. And since then he has been playing it a bit fast and loose with the "truth". I still haven't seen a single shred of evidence to back up Kerry's claims that Sarin gas was used.

Luckily, another almost Mr. Magoo-like statement by John Kerry, initially sloughed off as a rhetorical question/answer by the State Department, which "...sought to lessen the potential impact of Kerry's comments by calling them a "rhetorical" response to a hypothetical question and not "a proposal.", saved the day.

Whatever accidental diplomacy practiced by Kerry and Obama - I voted for both of these gentleman more times than I care to admit - ended up with a win-win solution, so Obama and Kerry can take all the credit they want. Firing Tomahawk missiles into Syria would have been a failure.

[midas]

How totally bizarre

now it's the rebels appear to be the troublemakers and maybe Assad doesn't look so bad after all?

But another military council official, Qassim Saadeddine, said: "Let the Kerry-Lavrov plan go to hell. We reject it and we will not protect the inspectors or let them enter Syria."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/14/syria-crisis-idris-idUSL5N0HA0A720130914

[churchill]

Obama and the US , it seems , do not have the appetite , finances or will to continue as the ' World's Policeman "

Who will take their place ...

[cdnvic]

I removed some unattributed articles and replies to them.

It would be more interesting if you guys came up with your own words rather than just pasting other peoples' back and forth at each other.

[FDog]

How totally bizarre

now it's the rebels appear to be the troublemakers and maybe Assad doesn't look so bad after all?

But another military council official, Qassim Saadeddine, said: "Let the Kerry-Lavrov plan go to hell. We reject it and we will not protect the inspectors or let them enter Syria."

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/14/syria-crisis-idris-idUSL5N0HA0A720130914

Shouldn't post things like that, others may think we are just following the mass media.

I think it is fantastic that Obama is following Putin's lead in this to rid BOTH sides of chemical weapons.

[SinglePot]

Obama and the US , it seems , do not have the appetite , finances or will to continue as the ' World's Policeman "

Who will take their place ...

Is a system of democratically elected government flawed.

[churchill]

Obama and the US , it seems , do not have the appetite , finances or will to continue as the ' World's Policeman "

Who will take their place ...

Is a system of democratically elected government flawed.

With regard to foreign policy, perhaps ..

[Publicus]

Putin's unwavering support of Assad and his regime assures that the bloodbath will continue. By strengthening Assad, Putin acts counter to the UN resolutions, to include a one-sided vote by the General Assembly, that call on Assad to step down so that efforts can be made to negotiate with the opposition to include all groups in a democratic government that necessarily must exclude the Jihadists.

If Putin would join with Prez Obama to focus on the Jihadists, instead of himself choosing up sides and thereby forcing others to choose up sides, the moderate forces supported by the international community would stand a much better possibility of being able to establish a new inclusive government of Syria that could stabilize the country and restore a reasonable peace.

Putin is Assad's only friend along with Iran, both of which are outside the Arab region. Putin has alienated himself from the other Arab governments and among the peoples of the Middle East, and he has complicated Israel's always tenuous position in the region. The Arabs already don't like or trust Iran and its nuclear program further complicates the region.

Putin is more interested in trying to empower himself globally and to try to restore the status of Russia since the collapse of the USSR, for which Putin was a KGB agent. To think of Putin as some kind or any kind of diplomat is one of the greatest jokes of our time. The Russian foreign minister is another Russian, not a diplomat.

The Russian president will continue to hold out against intervention and insist that negotiations with Assad must be part of the way forward, until some strongman can be found to restore a semblance of order to Syria’s chaos. If, by some miracle, Syria does not turn into a full-scale regional disaster, Putin will pat himself on the back and say it was thanks to him because he prevented an intervention. If the more likely scenario plays out, Putin will blame Washington. He will hold the United States responsible for destroying Syria and empowering Sunni Islamist extremists by championing democracy and the Arab revolutions. Meanwhile, Putin’s obstinacy is already turning his worst nightmare -- the fracturing of a geopolitically important state -- into a reality.

The Real Reason Putin Supports Assad

Putin is really motivated to support the Assad regime by his fear of state collapse -- a fear he confronted most directly during the secession of Russia’s North Caucasus republic of Chechnya, which he brutally suppressed in a bloody civil war and counterinsurgency operation fought between 1999 and 2009.

Ever since he took office (first as prime minister in 1999 and then as president in 2000) and was confronted by the Chechen war, Putin has expressed his fear of Sunni Islamist extremism and of the risks that “jihadist” groups pose to Russia, with its large, indigenous, Sunni Muslim population, concentrated in the North Caucasus, the Volga region, and in major cities such as Moscow.

In short, Putin doubts that the United States and the international community can deliver stability to Syria, so he continues to stand by the flailing regime as the only means of avoiding the collapse of the state altogether.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2013/03/25-reason-putin-supports-assad-hill

[SinglePot]

Obama and the US , it seems , do not have the appetite , finances or will to continue as the ' World's Policeman "

Who will take their place ...

Is a system of democratically elected government flawed.

With regard to foreign policy, perhaps ..

Interesting comment. I'll have a think about it.

In the meantime, if it were not for Sir Winston I wouldn't be here to think about it.

[Publicus]

Obama and the US , it seems , do not have the appetite , finances or will to continue as the ' World's Policeman "

Who will take their place ...

Is a system of democratically elected government flawed.

With regard to foreign policy, perhaps ..

Since the conclusion of WW 2 the United States has occasionally experienced periods of withdrawal from global affairs, post Vietnam conflict and now post Iraq and the Iraq Words of Mass Deception by Bush and the neocons.

It's always been a temporary phenomenon.

The post Iraq trauma however is probably greater than the post Vietnam conflict syndrome. The government lied in each conflict but in Iraq Bush and the neocons really shit the bed.

[Publicus]

The CCP-PRC, which is one of only a dozen or so governments that maintain an embassy in Damascus, has an embassy compound in the heart of Damascus near the presidential palace and defense ministry and, according to the report below, has been grazed several times by the impact of bombs or bullets during rebel attacks against Assad himself or those in his murdering regime.

Now however the Free Syrian Army is vowing to destroy the PRChinese embassy and anyone who chooses to remain in it.

Beijing of course has voted with Assad and Putin at the UN Security Council and the UN General Assembly, and has continued to support the Assad regime and to defend it in international forums and discussion. Beijing and Moscow were among the 12 votes Assad got in a 2012 UN General Assembly vote in which 137 member states called on Assad to step down in favor of a democratic coalition government.

Included among the few other governments that are maintaining an embassy presence in Damascus are Russia, Iran, North Korea, Venezuela and Cuba. Perhaps those embassies may find themselves under rebel attack also, although there aren't any reports in this regard.

While Beijing has maintained its embassy staff, there otherwise are only 20 of the 1200 PRChinese nationals remaining in Syria from two years ago.

Beijing's most militant state newspaper The Global Times reports that CCP ambassador Zhang Xun now keeps a bullet-proof vest, gas mask and pistol in his office.

Syrian Rebels Attack Chinese Diplomats, Embassy

There are also reports that the rebels are actively plotting attacks against the Chinese embassy, presumably in retaliation for China’s continued support for the Assad regime.

The Want China Times of Taiwan report said that a brigade commander in the Free Syrian Army, one of the rebel forces fighting the Syrian government, has vowed to launch a “full-scale attack” on the Chinese embassy.

Meanwhile, the Global Times claims that a local driver the embassy had employed was arrested earlier this year by Syrian authorities for allegedly planning to place bombs under the embassy car.

http://thediplomat.com/china-power/syrian-rebels-attack-chinese-diplomats-embassy/comment-page-1/#comment-46764

Edited September 15, 2013 by Publicus

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[Baloo22]

Putin's unwavering support of Assad and his regime assures that the bloodbath will continue. By strengthening Assad, Putin acts counter to the UN resolutions, to include a one-sided vote by the General Assembly, that call on Assad to step down so that efforts can be made to negotiate with the opposition to include all groups in a democratic government that necessarily must exclude the Jihadists.

If Putin would join with Prez Obama to focus on the Jihadists, instead of himself choosing up sides and thereby forcing others to choose up sides, the moderate forces supported by the international community would stand a much better possibility of being able to establish a new inclusive government of Syria that could stabilize the country and restore a reasonable peace.

Putin is Assad's only friend along with Iran, both of which are outside the Arab region. Putin has alienated himself from the other Arab governments and among the peoples of the Middle East, and he has complicated Israel's always tenuous position in the region. The Arabs already don't like or trust Iran and its nuclear program further complicates the region.

Putin is more interested in trying to empower himself globally and to try to restore the status of Russia since the collapse of the USSR, for which Putin was a KGB agent. To think of Putin as some kind or any kind of diplomat is one of the greatest jokes of our time. The Russian foreign minister is another Russian, not a diplomat.

The Russian president will continue to hold out against intervention and insist that negotiations with Assad must be part of the way forward, until some strongman can be found to restore a semblance of order to Syria’s chaos. If, by some miracle, Syria does not turn into a full-scale regional disaster, Putin will pat himself on the back and say it was thanks to him because he prevented an intervention. If the more likely scenario plays out, Putin will blame Washington. He will hold the United States responsible for destroying Syria and empowering Sunni Islamist extremists by championing democracy and the Arab revolutions. Meanwhile, Putin’s obstinacy is already turning his worst nightmare -- the fracturing of a geopolitically important state -- into a reality.

The Real Reason Putin Supports Assad

Putin is really motivated to support the Assad regime by his fear of state collapse -- a fear he confronted most directly during the secession of Russia’s North Caucasus republic of Chechnya, which he brutally suppressed in a bloody civil war and counterinsurgency operation fought between 1999 and 2009.

Ever since he took office (first as prime minister in 1999 and then as president in 2000) and was confronted by the Chechen war, Putin has expressed his fear of Sunni Islamist extremism and of the risks that “jihadist” groups pose to Russia, with its large, indigenous, Sunni Muslim population, concentrated in the North Caucasus, the Volga region, and in major cities such as Moscow.

In short, Putin doubts that the United States and the international community can deliver stability to Syria, so he continues to stand by the flailing regime as the only means of avoiding the collapse of the state altogether.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2013/03/25-reason-putin-supports-assad-hill

Or Putin actually has more insight into the situation on the ground in Syria and what the most likely outcome will be if the Assad government falls. I'd bet money that the Jihadist groups will be much more vicious and ruthless than competing groups and this will enable them to gain prominence in the post-Assad situation. Perhaps Putin realizes that and feels that the best way to kill the most Jihadists is by keeping the Assad forces in the fight.

Perhaps Prez Obama should join with Putin in this and provide a more effective effort and better results against the Jihadists.

[F430murci]

Putin's unwavering support of Assad and his regime assures that the bloodbath will continue. By strengthening Assad, Putin acts counter to the UN resolutions, to include a one-sided vote by the General Assembly, that call on Assad to step down so that efforts can be made to negotiate with the opposition to include all groups in a democratic government that necessarily must exclude the Jihadists.

If Putin would join with Prez Obama to focus on the Jihadists, instead of himself choosing up sides and thereby forcing others to choose up sides, the moderate forces supported by the international community would stand a much better possibility of being able to establish a new inclusive government of Syria that could stabilize the country and restore a reasonable peace.

Putin is Assad's only friend along with Iran, both of which are outside the Arab region. Putin has alienated himself from the other Arab governments and among the peoples of the Middle East, and he has complicated Israel's always tenuous position in the region. The Arabs already don't like or trust Iran and its nuclear program further complicates the region.

Putin is more interested in trying to empower himself globally and to try to restore the status of Russia since the collapse of the USSR, for which Putin was a KGB agent. To think of Putin as some kind or any kind of diplomat is one of the greatest jokes of our time. The Russian foreign minister is another Russian, not a diplomat.

The Russian president will continue to hold out against intervention and insist that negotiations with Assad must be part of the way forward, until some strongman can be found to restore a semblance of order to Syrias chaos. If, by some miracle, Syria does not turn into a full-scale regional disaster, Putin will pat himself on the back and say it was thanks to him because he prevented an intervention. If the more likely scenario plays out, Putin will blame Washington. He will hold the United States responsible for destroying Syria and empowering Sunni Islamist extremists by championing democracy and the Arab revolutions. Meanwhile, Putins obstinacy is already turning his worst nightmare -- the fracturing of a geopolitically important state -- into a reality.

The Real Reason Putin Supports Assad

Putin is really motivated to support the Assad regime by his fear of state collapse -- a fear he confronted most directly during the secession of Russias North Caucasus republic of Chechnya, which he brutally suppressed in a bloody civil war and counterinsurgency operation fought between 1999 and 2009.

Ever since he took office (first as prime minister in 1999 and then as president in 2000) and was confronted by the Chechen war, Putin has expressed his fear of Sunni Islamist extremism and of the risks that jihadist groups pose to Russia, with its large, indigenous, Sunni Muslim population, concentrated in the North Caucasus, the Volga region, and in major cities such as Moscow.

In short, Putin doubts that the United States and the international community can deliver stability to Syria, so he continues to stand by the flailing regime as the only means of avoiding the collapse of the state altogether.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2013/03/25-reason-putin-supports-assad-hill

Or Putin actually has more insight into the situation on the ground in Syria and what the most likely outcome will be if the Assad government falls. I'd bet money that the Jihadist groups will be much more vicious and ruthless than competing groups and this will enable them to gain prominence in the post-Assad situation. Perhaps Putin realizes that and feels that the best way to kill the most Jihadists is by keeping the Assad forces in the fight.

Perhaps Prez Obama should join with Putin in this and provide a more effective effort and better results against the Jihadists.

Putin has zero concern about the welfare of anyone in Syria. This is about economics, Tartus, pride and geopolitical show of strength all of which are at risk if Assad is ultimately overthrown. Rebels obviously won't be very happy with Putin for supplying the weapons used to kill them and their families if rebels eventually gained control.

This episode has emboldened Putin because he knows Bama will back down. This was a very bad and dangerous mis-step by Bama.

As soon as deal on chemical weapons was struck, Putin agreed to sending the sophisticated anti missile and aircraft systems to Syria and agreed to build more nuclear reactors in Iran. Your political views are jading reality and common sense as Putin is a very dangerous guy.

Edited September 15, 2013 by F430murci

[JDGRUEN]

Channel 4 journalist Alex Thomson says Syria rebels led me into death trap

A senior British journalist has claimed Syrian rebels tried to lead him and his team into a death trap so they would be killed by gunfire from government forces in a bid to discredit the Assad regime.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/9321068/Channel-4-journalist-Alex-Thomson-says-Syria-rebels-led-me-into-death-trap.html

[Publicus]

Putin's unwavering support of Assad and his regime assures that the bloodbath will continue. By strengthening Assad, Putin acts counter to the UN resolutions, to include a one-sided vote by the General Assembly, that call on Assad to step down so that efforts can be made to negotiate with the opposition to include all groups in a democratic government that necessarily must exclude the Jihadists.

If Putin would join with Prez Obama to focus on the Jihadists, instead of himself choosing up sides and thereby forcing others to choose up sides, the moderate forces supported by the international community would stand a much better possibility of being able to establish a new inclusive government of Syria that could stabilize the country and restore a reasonable peace.

Putin is Assad's only friend along with Iran, both of which are outside the Arab region. Putin has alienated himself from the other Arab governments and among the peoples of the Middle East, and he has complicated Israel's always tenuous position in the region. The Arabs already don't like or trust Iran and its nuclear program further complicates the region.

Putin is more interested in trying to empower himself globally and to try to restore the status of Russia since the collapse of the USSR, for which Putin was a KGB agent. To think of Putin as some kind or any kind of diplomat is one of the greatest jokes of our time. The Russian foreign minister is another Russian, not a diplomat.

The Russian president will continue to hold out against intervention and insist that negotiations with Assad must be part of the way forward, until some strongman can be found to restore a semblance of order to Syria’s chaos. If, by some miracle, Syria does not turn into a full-scale regional disaster, Putin will pat himself on the back and say it was thanks to him because he prevented an intervention. If the more likely scenario plays out, Putin will blame Washington. He will hold the United States responsible for destroying Syria and empowering Sunni Islamist extremists by championing democracy and the Arab revolutions. Meanwhile, Putin’s obstinacy is already turning his worst nightmare -- the fracturing of a geopolitically important state -- into a reality.

The Real Reason Putin Supports Assad

Putin is really motivated to support the Assad regime by his fear of state collapse -- a fear he confronted most directly during the secession of Russia’s North Caucasus republic of Chechnya, which he brutally suppressed in a bloody civil war and counterinsurgency operation fought between 1999 and 2009.

Ever since he took office (first as prime minister in 1999 and then as president in 2000) and was confronted by the Chechen war, Putin has expressed his fear of Sunni Islamist extremism and of the risks that “jihadist” groups pose to Russia, with its large, indigenous, Sunni Muslim population, concentrated in the North Caucasus, the Volga region, and in major cities such as Moscow.

In short, Putin doubts that the United States and the international community can deliver stability to Syria, so he continues to stand by the flailing regime as the only means of avoiding the collapse of the state altogether.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/opinions/2013/03/25-reason-putin-supports-assad-hill

Or Putin actually has more insight into the situation on the ground in Syria and what the most likely outcome will be if the Assad government falls. I'd bet money that the Jihadist groups will be much more vicious and ruthless than competing groups and this will enable them to gain prominence in the post-Assad situation. Perhaps Putin realizes that and feels that the best way to kill the most Jihadists is by keeping the Assad forces in the fight.

Perhaps Prez Obama should join with Putin in this and provide a more effective effort and better results against the Jihadists.

Let's look at your statement in support of Assad and Putin to see what Assad, since joined by Putin, have been doing in Syria the past 30 consecutive months.

And let's remember that all of this started when Syrian authorities arrested - yes arrested - some school children who had put some anti Assad regime graffiti on some walls in their neighborhood.

The number of two million represents Syrians who have registered as refugees or who are pending registration. As of end August this comprised 110,000 in Egypt, 168,000 in Iraq, 515,000 in Jordan, 716,000 in Lebanon, and 460,000 in Turkey. Some 52 per cent of this population are children aged 17 years or below. UNHCR announced on 23 August that the number of Syrian child refugees had exceeded a million.

All of this is the work of Assad and Putin since 2011 which Prez Obama didn't start and doesn't want any part of, and which he and the international community are trying to stop.

I recall further that in early February, 2012 Russia and China vetoed a UN Security Council resolution that called for an end to the violence, for Assad to hand power to his vice president, and advocating the creation of a unity government. The vetoes were a dagger to the heart of the diplomatic effort to stem the increasing violence.

So a few days later the UN General Assembly voted 137-12, in favor of a resolution that condemned Assad and urged him to step down. While the UN resolution was non-binding, it nevertheless was an indictment of Assad who is now in the process of an attempted rescue by Vladimir Putin in what Putin likes to call diplomacy, as if Putin knew anything at all about diplomacy.

Deaths and Refugees in Syria, By the Second

UNHCR

Since the conflict in Syria began in March of 2011, two million of the country's citizens have become refugees in foreign countries, according to the U.N.

Two million refugees — but 1.8 million over the last 12 months. That's 5,000 people a day — the majority of them kids.

Agence France-Presse reported on Monday that some 110,000 people had been killed in the conflict, about 40,000 of whom were civilians.

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2013/09/deaths-and-refugees-syria-second/68982/

Edited September 15, 2013 by Publicus

[Publicus]

*Deleted Post edited out*

I'm stating a relevant and material fact of this ugly matter, made ugly by Assad and his regime, Putin and Beijing.

The UN General Assembly vote of 137-12 for Assad to quit in order to try to put a stop to the violence put Moscow and Beijing among the 12. That's pathetic, considering especially that Russia and the CCP-PRC are among the P-5 members of the UN Security Council.

The UN General Assembly vote was a repudiation by the world of nations, the international community, of Assad, Moscow, Beijing.

Putin has no legitimacy in his present role as a pretender of diplomacy.

Edited September 15, 2013 by Scott

[SinglePot]

If I was in a dark alley with Putin, Assad and Obama, the only one I would be confident of not shooting me in the back would be....

They worry me.