Credit Card machines automatically converting to Dollars?

[Drew345]

I have a "no foreign fee" credit card from my US bank and I am often eager to use it to get the rather nice credit card exchange rate.

Usually this happens (good way):

I use my credit card and get a receipt for the baht ammount, which I sign. Then the credit card company converts the ammount to dallars and that shows up on my credit card statement. The exchange part of the transaction is done my the credit card company with a rather good rate.

Sometimes this happens (bad way):

The credit card machine (or operating Thai bank) automatically converts the baht ammount to a dollar amount and the receipt presented for me to sign is already in dollars (even though the purchase was in Baht). There is a small note on the bottom of the receipt that there is no echange fee except for 3% added on (then why say no exchange fee?). This seems converted with fee added on by the bank operating the credit card machine. So then the Thai bank passes on a US dollar amount to the credit card company, instead of a baht amount. I thus miss the nice credit card exchange rate and pay that extra 3%.

I think I notice that SCB machines are the ones doing that automatic conversion to dollars (with 3 % added) while TFB machines just print the receipt in Baht (good way). But I might be missing something and want to know if anyone else has noticed this and what exactly is the pattern.

I try to ask ahead of time if the machine charges dollars or baht for foreign credit cards and always get the answer that it charges Baht. Then a "converted" dollar recept comes out, so clearly the clerks have no idea.

One time the ammount was large (at the dentest) and when the machine spit out the receipt with the dollar ammount (and 3 % added on) I had them cancel the transation and just went to the ATM to get cash. Usually the amount is not so but that I want to go though that (cancelling the transaction).

So, have you noticed some credit card machines will give you a Baht receipt, and other machines give you a dollar receipt automatically? What's the pattern and how do I make sure that a Baht ammount is what is passed on to the credit card company?

Thanks,

[Crossy]

Getting billed in Baht is usually better rate wise.

The clerk is supposed to ask which currency you want, but many blindly press the continue button (which defaults to the card currency)

I've noticed that this issue varies from store to store, branch to branch and even clerk to clerk.

Tesco always bill in Baht, Homepro Chaeng Watthana always ask, Homepro Rangsit always used to bill in Sterling (UK card), but now staff are (often) asking.

[Drew345]

Oh, no wonder I have had a hard time finding a pattern, it is all up to the clerk.

OK, I will insist that they bill in Baht. But not sure what I will do when I get that clueless look (they're just a clerk afterall.

[Pib]

When in doubt or if you know a merchant does the Dynamic Currency Conversion (DCC) rip-off be sure to tell the checkout clerk when handing them your card "to charge Thai baht, not US Dollars" (or whatever your home country currency is). I would highly recommend you hold onto to your card and be sure you have their attention when telling them to charge in baht before you release your grip on the card for the clerk to process. Here in Bangkok I have to do that at the three different HomePro's I use, Pizza Company, and Sizzler. When I tell the checkout clerk to "charge Thai baht, not US Dollars" they then process it in Thai baht. It only takes them one or two extra button pushes & seconds on the Point of Sale (POS) machine as they tell the machine to process the transaction in baht vs USD, Euro, Pound, Yen, etc.

But everyone once in a while even when I clearly tell them to charge Thai baht, not USD it just doesn't register to their brain properly, been a long day, brain on automatic, etc., and they end up letting the Point of Sale machine process the card depending on the default setup that merchant uses on their POS machines...and at places like HomePro, Pizza Company, and Sizzler it will process as a DCC and "print out in Dollars and Baht" which means it was processed as a DCC transaction...which means a 3 to 4% lower exchange rate for you...or said another way...a 3 to 4% higher dollar charge to your home country account....or said even another way...3 to 4% more profit for the merchant/his processing bank. At all other stores like Lotus, Big C, Foodland, and a much longer list of merchants/stores I don't tell them anything when handing them my card "because I already know they don't attempt the DCC rip-off.

When a DCC transaction occurs, I don't sign the receipt, hand the unsigned receipt back to them, and then tell them to cancel that transaction and rerun in Thai baht...it has happened to me approx. 4 times over the last few years. They cancel/rerun the transaction with no fuss and it only takes about a minute. And it's not limited to SCB POS machines, Bangkok Bank machines, K-Bank machines, etc., the POS machine will process the same way for foreign card "if, repeat, "if" the merchant has the POS machine setup that way. It's totally up to the merchant. Some businesses apparently like using DCC and earning an extra 3 to 4% off the customer due to the lower DCC exchange rate used. I've even run into one large tile shop here in Bangkok that would gladly accept foreign cards but only if processing the transaction as a DCC transaction--I don't visit that business anymore.

Be sure to hand onto the cancelled transaction receipt they will give you just in case it don't fall off your credit card bill within a few days of the transaction....mine always have...usually within about 3 business days. Funny how payment transactions hit your account immediately but cancellations/refunds take a few business days.

In closing, DCC bad, very bad for the customer; DCC good, very good for the merchant/bank.

P.S. Don't do DCC on ATMs either...same 3-4% rip-off/lower exchange rate will occur. And the ATM screens where they ask you how your want to convert probably won't be using the Dynamic Currency Conversion words---since many folks know DCC causes a higher charge for them--but the ATM screens will use some other warm/fuzzy/vague words which attempt to make you want to accomplish the transaction/charge in your home country currency. I wish they would outlaw DCC but since it makes extra money/fees for banks & merchants at the customers expense I don't expect it ever will be.

[pancakeman]

Tesco always bill in Baht, Homepro Chaeng Watthana always ask, Homepro Rangsit always used to bill in Sterling (UK card), but now staff are (often) asking.

Homepro are the worst for it... you have to literally pry the clerks fingers away from the terminal to stop them from poking the USD option.

The staff are slow and ill trained at everything else, but when it comes to fking you with USD they are grease lightning. 95% of their training courses must revolve around pushing that button before the customer notices.

[KCM]

Dean & Deluca now will charge in your card's currency without asking which you prefer. When you tell the cashier to charge in Baht, they reply that it's their policy now to charge in your card's currency. If you insist, they eventually will find someone who will allow the cashier to charge in Baht, but they are really pressing hard for this extra three percent.

[Drew345]

I see, thanks for all the info about DCC and how to avoid it.

I've been out of Thailand for a while and forgotten most of my Thai (though I am sure it will come back fast).

When you tell them to charge in Thai Baht not Dollars, is broken English the best way "Charge Baht NOT Dollars, OK?", or is using (broken) Thai language better?

Can you see the buttons they are pressing to tell them "NO", when it comes to that dollars or baht screen, is the machine in Thai or English? Or is it just up to them to do it right after being told to use Baht?

Now that I have a no foreign fee card, I want to use it a good bit this trip, so thanks for the help.

[Pib]

I see, thanks for all the info about DCC and how to avoid it.

I've been out of Thailand for a while and forgotten most of my Thai (though I am sure it will come back fast).

When you tell them to charge in Thai Baht not Dollars, is broken English the best way "Charge Baht NOT Dollars, OK?", or is using (broken) Thai language better?

Can you see the buttons they are pressing to tell them "NO", when it comes to that dollars or baht screen, is the machine in Thai or English? Or is it just up to them to do it right after being told to use Baht?

Now that I have a no foreign fee card, I want to use it a good bit this trip, so thanks for the help.

I just say in English with direct eye contact, "Charge Thai Baht, Not U.S. Dollars."

Usually due to the position of the POS machine you can't really see the menus/selections they are pulling up when pressing the buttons, but I have had a few clerks who will move the machine close to me where they have highlighted the "Thai Baht" selection and I shake my head yes....and at the same time I can see several other currencies they could have selected like USD, Pounds, Euro, Yen, etc.

But I think in many cases the clerks are "not" manually selecting USD/Euro/Pound/etc just to screw you with a DCC transaction because the machine has already been setup by the merchant/his local Thai processing bank to default to the card's issuers currency when the machine detects it's a foreign card...that is the merchant has the machine setup to automatically detect foreign cards and switch to DCC rip-off mode. Kind like when you slide your foreign card into a Thai bank ATM and it detects it's a foreign card and defaults to charging your that Bt150-180 foreign card fee. With all the different looking cards out there and all the different card issuing banks/companies it would be practically impossible for checkout clerks to determine if a card is from a Thai bank or a foreign bank without asking...but once put into the POS/ATM machine these machines can tell instantly by the info encoded on the chip/magnetic strip.