Thaksin Returns To Thailand

[ColPyat]

Taiwan is part of China over thousand years, so they speak Chinese

Not quite. Taiwan was actually colonized by Chinese only over the past few hundred years. Prior to the late 17th century it was an island inhabited by "barbarians" speaking non-Chinese languages. Of course in the face of continued Han migrations to the island, these indigenous people have all but disappeared, the most likely fate for the Tibetan people as well, another land recently imagined as having been Chinese for millenia. Don't think that Thailand, also once perceived as a vassel State in some of the older Chinese chronicles, is immune to such historical musings as population presssures mount over the decades.

It is always a bit startling to observe well educated Chinese believe in some of the imagined history emanating from Bejing to justify their colonial endeavours.

Sorry to disturb the fascinating topic of speculating if Thaksin has maybe met foreign leaders or maybe not, might be going to, or not, may be lying, or not, but I beg to differ here in the question of China's claims on Tibet and Taiwan.

The present political status of Taiwan is rather complex, but so far Taiwan has not officially declared independence, but considers itself still the sole legitimate government of unified China. And so does the PRC. Therefore it is not considered a nation, and does not consider itself an independent nation.

The Tibetan question is complex as well, but Tibet is not considered a independent nation as well, does not appear so in the UN list of independent nations. Tibet, or better Lhasa, declared independence in 1911, this though was neither accepted by China, nor by any other country in the world. Many feudal fiefdoms of Tibet have also not accepted Lhasa rule at the time. The government in exile, led by the Dalai Lama, presently does not claim independence as their goal, but wider autonomy. The more radical parts of the Tibetan resistence may claim independence, but their historical reasoning is at least as fishy as China's.

Fact is, that Tibet never really was a nation in the modern sense of nationhood, but a collection of feudal fiefdoms that for nearly a millenia were moving between being dominated and neglected by China depending on the strength of the dynasties.

Unfortunately the debate on Tibet is from both sides of the fence more dominated by propaganda and historical revisionism than facts, which does not really help to come to a solution.

[h90]

Thaksin is man

great post, what does this post want to tell me?

Maybe it is a problem with my english knowlege, but I can not see much sense in these 3 words....

[jdinasia]

Taiwan is part of China over thousand years, so they speak Chinese

Not quite. Taiwan was actually colonized by Chinese only over the past few hundred years. Prior to the late 17th century it was an island inhabited by "barbarians" speaking non-Chinese languages. Of course in the face of continued Han migrations to the island, these indigenous people have all but disappeared, the most likely fate for the Tibetan people as well, another land recently imagined as having been Chinese for millenia. Don't think that Thailand, also once perceived as a vassel State in some of the older Chinese chronicles, is immune to such historical musings as population presssures mount over the decades.

It is always a bit startling to observe well educated Chinese believe in some of the imagined history emanating from Bejing to justify their colonial endeavours.

Sorry to disturb the fascinating topic of speculating if Thaksin has maybe met foreign leaders or maybe not, might be going to, or not, may be lying, or not, but I beg to differ here in the question of China's claims on Tibet and Taiwan.The present political status of Taiwan is rather complex, but so far Taiwan has not officially declared independence, but considers itself still the sole legitimate government of unified China. And so does the PRC. Therefore it is not considered a nation, and does not consider itself an independent nation.

The Tibetan question is complex as well, but Tibet is not considered a independent nation as well, does not appear so in the UN list of independent nations. Tibet, or better Lhasa, declared independence in 1911, this though was neither accepted by China, nor by any other country in the world. Many feudal fiefdoms of Tibet have also not accepted Lhasa rule at the time. The government in exile, led by the Dalai Lama, presently does not claim independence as their goal, but wider autonomy. The more radical parts of the Tibetan resistence may claim independence, but their historical reasoning is at least as fishy as China's.

Fact is, that Tibet never really was a nation in the modern sense of nationhood, but a collection of feudal fiefdoms that for nearly a millenia were moving between being dominated and neglected by China depending on the strength of the dynasties.

Unfortunately the debate on Tibet is from both sides of the fence more dominated by propaganda and historical revisionism than facts, which does not really help to come to a solution.

Sorry to disturb this off topic bit of proselytizing ...... but the thread is .... Thaksin Returns to Thailand

[Plus]

Ando, there's new information on Thaksin's upcoming visits to Blair, Chirak, Putin et al. I think it's safe to assume he hasn't met them last week.

Now you can return from your self-exile. What do you think Thaksin will tell them about Thailand's political situation, and if they'd believe him.

"They would like to know first hand what is happening in our country. Why is it so strange? They would like to know the reality because when they read the newspapers they can't make any sense out of it."

I think they have missed all the newspaper stories about Thailand and generally rely on thier advisers, who, for all we know, might read TV News Clippings along with The Nation everyday.

[h90]

Ando, there's new information on Thaksin's upcoming visits to Blair, Chirak, Putin et al. I think it's safe to assume he hasn't met them last week.

Now you can return from your self-exile. What do you think Thaksin will tell them about Thailand's political situation, and if they'd believe him.

"They would like to know first hand what is happening in our country. Why is it so strange? They would like to know the reality because when they read the newspapers they can't make any sense out of it."

I think they have missed all the newspaper stories about Thailand and generally rely on thier advisers, who, for all we know, might read TV News Clippings along with The Nation everyday.

nothing he told them before that if they don't meet him, they will not be part of his mega-projects.

By the way I did not read one word that he meet putin.

[Hermano Lobo]

Thaksin is man

great post, what does this post want to tell me?

Maybe it is a problem with my english knowlege, but I can not see much sense in these 3 words....

"A good post, a good idea and I will look into it."

One small step for a Man one giant leap for Thailand !

Chairman Thaksin announces the 'Great Leap Forward' !

Edited April 24, 2006 by Hermano Lobo

[Ricardo]

Regional-hub of Great Leaps Forward.

[Plus]

From the BP article quoted on the previous page:

On Thursday, Mr Thaksin hopes to meet President Vladimir Putin of Russia in Moscow. Then he will travel to Japan, to China, and back to Bangkok by Saturday.

[Plus]

It's nearly teatime in the UK, will Blair have his cuppa with Thaksin?

[sriracha john]

Thaksin arrives in London

Outgoing Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra arrived in London on Monday, the Thai embassy said, on the first leg of a diplomatic tour to explain the current Thai political situation to his counterparts.

Thaksin, who stepped aside earlier this month after weeks of street protests, was to meet the leaders of Britain, France, Russia, Japan and China before heading back to Thailand this Saturday.

Thaksin is scheduled to meet British Prime Minister Tony Blair on Monday before heading to Paris for talks with French President Jacques Chirac on Tuesday.

- TN

[sriracha john]

THAKSIN ON TOUR

PM's trip personal: Kantathi

Caretaker foreign minister denies any diplomatic impropriety

Caretaker Foreign Minister Kantathi Suphamongkhon yesterday defended caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra against criticism of his plans to meet the leaders of France, Britain, Russia, Japan and China on his current six-day trip abroad.

"He is going there in a personal capacity to meet old friends in their countries. It's not an official visit. Those leaders are receiving him as a private gesture," he told The Nation.

Thaksin told reporters before his departure on Sunday that he would explain the country's political situation to the leaders.

Senator Kraisak Chonhavan, chairman of the Senate Foreign Committee in the outgoing Senate, joined other academics and critics yesterday in attacking Thaksin's globetrotting.

Kraisak called the trip "inappropriate" diplomatically and said the meetings with foreign leaders were mainly for a Thai audience.

Surat Horachaikul, a lecturer at Chulalongkorn University's Department of international relations, said Thaksin's insistence on meeting these world leaders at short notice was an embarrassment for the Thai people and that Thai diplomats felt extremely uncomfortable about his actions.

Surat said Thaksin had to understand he is accountable to the Thai public and needed to explain to the people why he is reaching out to the foreign community instead of engaging with them.

Thaksin would also miss the annual convention of his Thai Rak Thai Party today due to his trip.

The Thai embassy in London said yesterday that Thaksin had arrived in the city and was due to meet Prime Minister Tony Blair. He flies to France today to meet President Jacques Chirac, then leaves for Moscow in the evening. After meeting Russian President Vladimir Putin, Thaksin will make a short stop in Japan on Thursday to meet Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi before flying on to China to meet Premier Wen Jia-bao. He will spend Friday in China and return to Thailand on Saturday. He leaves again on Sunday to meet Philippine President Gloria Arroyo.

- TN

[sriracha john]

LEADER ON LEAVE

Suthep slams Thaksin for his overseas jaunts

The Democrat party yesterday strongly criticised caretaker Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's overseas trips to meet foreign leaders, saying they showed that he is still running the country.

Democrat party secretary-general Suthep Thaugsuban said Mr Thaksin's visits to other countries to meet many government leaders were aimed at sending a message to them that he was still in control of the government, despite having announced that he would not take any role in the cabinet.

Mr Thaksin ''wants to show the world he still calls the shots on affairs in Thailand. Thai people have been fooled by him when he said he had decided to wash his hands of politics,'' Mr Suthep said.

Foreign Minister Kantathi Suphamongkhon yesterday defended Mr Thaksin's foreign trips this week, saying they did not hurt diplomatic protocol or create any conflicts of interest because they were personal visits to his friends and paid for with his own money.

Mr Thaksin's visits do not use the government budget and he personally contacted those countries himself, Mr Kantathi told the Bangkok Post yesterday.

"He has just cultivated close relations with many countries during the past five years and those leaders will meet him as a friend who is the premier on leave,'' Mr Kantathi said.

Mr Thaksin was scheduled to meet British Prime Minister Tony Blair yesterday. Today he will meet French President Jacques Chirac and later this week with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi, Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao and Philippine President Gloria Arroyo.

- BP

[dr_Pat_Pong]

He used Thai Airforce One didn't he ?

[Eatdog]

Bush isn't smart enough to know that Thaksin isn't the PM anymore!

But he knows that Thailand is not part of China, or was it Taiwan which is not part of China??

Or both?

What is your point ? Taiwan is part of China

Not to move toooo off-topic, but 23 million Taiwanese might not agree with that assessment.

World Factbook

Government type (Taiwan): Multiparty democratic regime headed by popularly-elected president and unicameral legislature.

Government type (China): Communist state.

Even it is off topic,

Taiwan is part of China, Do you know the name that Taiwan call it self ? it is " Republic of China". the Constitution of Taiwan, it is very cleary called itself China, Taiwanese is Chinese.

Taiwanese's passport marked CHINA.

Taiwan airline called "China Airlines"

Edited April 25, 2006 by Eatdog

[h90]

Bush isn't smart enough to know that Thaksin isn't the PM anymore!

But he knows that Thailand is not part of China, or was it Taiwan which is not part of China??

Or both?

What is your point ? Taiwan is part of China

Not to move toooo off-topic, but 23 million Taiwanese might not agree with that assessment.

World Factbook

Government type (Taiwan): Multiparty democratic regime headed by popularly-elected president and unicameral legislature.

Government type (China): Communist state.

Even it is off topic,

Taiwan is part of China, Do you know the name that Taiwan call it self ? it is " Republic of China". the Constitution of Taiwan, it is very cleary called itself China, Taiwanese is Chinese.

23 million Taiwanese have passport with CHINA.

you are right it is

[Eatdog]

Thaksin is man

great post, what does this post want to tell me?

Maybe it is a problem with my english knowlege, but I can not see much sense in these 3 words....

"A good post, a good idea and I will look into it."

One small step for a Man one giant leap for Thailand !

Chairman Thaksin announces the 'Great Leap Forward' !

History will prove it! Thaksin wins

Edited April 25, 2006 by Eatdog

[Plus]

The best article in my opinion so far:

Is that what friends are for?

Outgoing Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has left Thailand on a trip to five countries: the UK, France, Russia, Japan and China.

Why? Thaksin said on Sunday that during his itinerary, he would brief leaders of each country on the current political situation in Thailand. He told reporters that the trip was "private" and he would meet leaders he regards as "friends".

But during his statement, he said that in Japan he would talk with Japanese leaders about the signing of a bilateral free-trade agreement, which has been postponed after the political crisis in Thailand. Thai media have reported that Thailand hopes to be able to sign the FTA with Japan by July. If this is a just private trip to visit friends, how can he discuss the FTA?

Streetwise's impression is that this trip is weird. The destinations are unmistakably the countries that have shown interest in joining the bidding for mass-transit mega-projects in Thailand. Thus, the trip sparks suspicion that it is connected with big bucks investment. Would part of Thaksin's conversations with the leaders be to assure them about the continuation of the projects, even if he steps down?

Next, as an "unemployed" politician, as he called himself, Thaksin is in no capacity to arrange such meetings. If these "friends" want to know about what's going on Thailand, why he did not simply dial their personal phone numbers? That is an intimate option that friends usually take.

Whatever. It is good to know that the government is not sponsoring this trip, as if to confirm that it is really "private".

But it's not a usual practice for former political party leaders or prime ministers to arrange such trips to say official goodbyes to their friends. This could set a whole new precedent for any number of successors.

Imagine all these politicians flying around the globe to brief their friends after their office days have come to an end. That should greatly raise aviation demand, with or without a huge increase in fuel bills.

Moreover, Thaksin might be willing to board planes as an ultra-frequent flyer for he'll have plenty of free time once out of office.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/04/25/bus...ss_30002442.php

[Eatdog]

Anyway, he has enough money to travel around.

Unemployed, freedom!

Opposite party has no word to say.

he is outside of country!

[h90]

Anyway, he has enough money to travel around.

Unemployed, freedom!

Opposite party has no word to say.

he is outside of country!

he is still premier, he did not step back and he can not name someone other as premier!!!

and TRT boss, so far away from unemployed.

[Plus]

Actually, not attending TRT's annual conference is interesting. What's he up to? What if members start backroom talks about future without him? On stage they will be politically correct, I expect.

It's Tuesday already, time to meet up with Chirac, tea with Blair passed without any reports so far.

[jdinasia]

The best article in my opinion so far:

Is that what friends are for?

Outgoing Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has left Thailand on a trip to five countries: the UK, France, Russia, Japan and China.

Why? Thaksin said on Sunday that during his itinerary, he would brief leaders of each country on the current political situation in Thailand. He told reporters that the trip was "private" and he would meet leaders he regards as "friends".

But during his statement, he said that in Japan he would talk with Japanese leaders about the signing of a bilateral free-trade agreement, which has been postponed after the political crisis in Thailand. Thai media have reported that Thailand hopes to be able to sign the FTA with Japan by July. If this is a just private trip to visit friends, how can he discuss the FTA?

Streetwise's impression is that this trip is weird. The destinations are unmistakably the countries that have shown interest in joining the bidding for mass-transit mega-projects in Thailand. Thus, the trip sparks suspicion that it is connected with big bucks investment. Would part of Thaksin's conversations with the leaders be to assure them about the continuation of the projects, even if he steps down?

Next, as an "unemployed" politician, as he called himself, Thaksin is in no capacity to arrange such meetings. If these "friends" want to know about what's going on Thailand, why he did not simply dial their personal phone numbers? That is an intimate option that friends usually take.

Whatever. It is good to know that the government is not sponsoring this trip, as if to confirm that it is really "private".

But it's not a usual practice for former political party leaders or prime ministers to arrange such trips to say official goodbyes to their friends. This could set a whole new precedent for any number of successors.

Imagine all these politicians flying around the globe to brief their friends after their office days have come to an end. That should greatly raise aviation demand, with or without a huge increase in fuel bills.

Moreover, Thaksin might be willing to board planes as an ultra-frequent flyer for he'll have plenty of free time once out of office.

http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/04/25/bus...ss_30002442.php

We've heard similar things from Captain Outrageous on here ... "I was backstage with the leaders od PAD" ..... then later when called on it .... "not the LEADERS, just some academics" (not to mention being the only farang yelled at at Siam Paragon etc ;-) hel_l ... you can say anything!

[sriracha john]

Thailand's Thaksin just 'meeting with friends' on foreign trips

forex.com

04/25/06 07:39 am (GMT)

BANGKOK (AFX) - Outgoing prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra is only "meeting with friends" when he visits European and Asian leaders on a five-nation tour this week, the foreign minister said.

"Thaksin is taking a break and he is not travelling on official trips. All the foreign leaders have the right to decline to meet with him if they are not available," Kantathi Suphamongkhon said.

(They didn't confirm scheduling prior to his departing Thailand or are they just preparing for the possible last minute, after-thought snubs?)

On the phone at #10 Downing Street:

"Uhhh... sorry Takky... I'm a might busy at the moment. Can we schedule something for next week?.... What? You're leaving today for Paris?... Well, sorry then, old chum... catch you next time you're in town, ok? Good luck to you"

Afterwards, to an assistant:

"Make sure we block that last number from any future calls."

"He's meeting with friends, but if they have questions (about Thai politics) Thaksin will use the opportunity to explain his perspective to them," he said.

Thaksin left on his second foreign trip in two weeks yesterday to Britain, France, Russia, Japan, and China, saying he will meet the leaders of those countries.

[h90]

Thailand's Thaksin just 'meeting with friends' on foreign trips

forex.com

04/25/06 07:39 am (GMT)

BANGKOK (AFX) - Outgoing prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra is only "meeting with friends" when he visits European and Asian leaders on a five-nation tour this week, the foreign minister said.

"Thaksin is taking a break and he is not travelling on official trips. All the foreign leaders have the right to decline to meet with him if they are not available," Kantathi Suphamongkhon said.

(They didn't confirm scheduling prior to his departing Thailand or are they just preparing for the possible last minute, after-thought snubs?)

On the phone at #10 Downing Street:

"Uhhh... sorry Takky... I'm a might busy at the moment. Can we schedule something for next week?.... What? You're leaving today for Paris?... Well, sorry then, old chum... catch you next time you're in town, ok? Good luck to you"

But Tony, I wanted to discuss some real important issues about the next Giga-Projects and the countries who will build them. But if you don't have time, mai pel rai, tomorrow I fly anyway to Paris to the old crow schilag maybe he has time....

Tony: wait wait: in the evening I only wanted to speak with bush about nukeing the Iran, thats not urgent, I can postphone that and shake hands for the cameras, 5 min time is enough, or??

Well see you soon.

"He's meeting with friends, but if they have questions (about Thai politics) Thaksin will use the opportunity to explain his perspective to them," he said.

Thaksin left on his second foreign trip in two weeks yesterday to Britain, France, Russia, Japan, and China, saying he will meet the leaders of those countries.

Edited April 25, 2006 by h90

[Plus]

It's time to open champaign with Chirac, and no one reported that Thaksin met with Blair yet. Where are those bloody reporters when you need them?

[jdinasia]

hanging out with the secret Service ... the Leaders of the PAD ... and making dangerous forays into areas of civil unrest to get information for us!

I see Captain got another thread closed .... it will surely fall on me and SRJ

Edited April 25, 2006 by jdinasia

[lukamar]

hanging out with the secret Service ... the Leaders of the PAD ... and making dangerous forays into areas of civil unrest to get information for us!

I see Captain got another thread closed .... it will surely fall on me and SRJ

Now JD... That's trolling for a negative reply for sure. You are even commenting about another thread that was closed.

[ColPyat]

We've heard similar things from Captain Outrageous on here ... "I was backstage with the leaders od PAD" ..... then later when called on it .... "not the LEADERS, just some academics" (not to mention being the only farang yelled at at Siam Paragon etc ;-) hel_l ... you can say anything!

hanging out with the secret Service ... the Leaders of the PAD ... and making dangerous forays into areas of civil unrest to get information for us!

I see Captain got another thread closed .... it will surely fall on me and SRJ

You are completely out of order.

[jdinasia]

hanging out with the secret Service ... the Leaders of the PAD ... and making dangerous forays into areas of civil unrest to get information for us!

I see Captain got another thread closed .... it will surely fall on me and SRJ

Now JD... That's trolling for a negative reply for sure. You are even commenting about another thread that was closed.

Nah ... that was making a joke about where the Press was .... re: the post above ...

the second was just an observation

[Terminator]

its just another money grabbing excercise, he is going privatly, so what is just another scam to fill his pockets, he got money chemicals in his brian, just an incurable disease, they just cannot stop.

god, help thailand.

[Plus]

Well, it seems that Thaksin did, in fact, meet Blair:

Overseas glamour eases PM's domestic woes

Diplomats may cringe, but Thaksin is determined to stay in the limelight by visiting foreign capitals

Diplomats, academics and international relations experts may spend the week cringing as outgoing Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra tours Europe and Asia. Many of them consider the tour, which brings Thaksin into the company of many foreign leaders, to be a crude breach of diplomatic protocol. A caretaker premier, who has at best a dubious popular mandate, should not represent the Kingdom overseas, they point out.

Thai and foreign officials have been confronted with a headache over how to handle the caretaker premier of a lame duck government who insists on paying a series of visits to national leaders in a private capacity.

The criticism of violations of diplomatic protocol, however, means little to Thaksin. His focus has always been on political goals.

Moreover, he realises that diplomats will be diplomatic - at least in public - about his breaches of their protocol. During his five years in power, Thaksin has proved willing to break norms to achieve his aims, even at the Kingdom's expense, and this attitude hardly sits easily with delicate diplomatic procedures.

Some foreign officials in Bangkok say privately that they were uneasy arranging Thaksin's visits to their leaders because he was travelling as a private citizen rather than as a government representative.

Thaksin has been received by British Prime Minister Tony Blair and French President Jacques Chirac, and is due to meet Russian President Vladimir Putin, Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi, Chinese Premier Wen Jia-bao this week. He will meet Filipino President Gloria Arroyo on Sunday.

Foreign Minister Kantathi Suphamongkhon defended his boss, saying that Thaksin's meetings were simply catching up with "old friends".

It is a private trip for the premier who is on leave and has no duties related to international relations to conduct, he said. "The prime minister needs to explain to his foreign friends why he stepped aside and how Thai democracy will move on from the current situation," Kantathi told The Nation.

"There are concerns internationally about the future of Thai democracy as street protests appear able to overrule the people's votes," he added.

Regardless of the reasons for his visit, as no foreign leaders refused his request Thaksin's tour will have a tangible effect in Thailand.

It will provide a propaganda show that will create the impression that he maintains his importance on the world stage.

This illusion suggests the world's leaders remain on good terms with Thaksin and are ready to stand by him during a crisis that bars him from returning to pick up the reins of power.

The foreign trip will give Thaksin the opportunity to force his way into the international limelight.

For example, government spokesman Surapong Suebwonglee said Thaksin would chair the committee to welcome United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan when he visits Thailand in late May to present an award to His Majesty the King.

Annan has visited the Kingdom a few times over the past few years, but next month's visit is being highlighted by the government to restore some of the Thaksin's prestige.

Thaksin desperately needs to show that he maintains an international presence as his claim to being a regional leader is slipping away and his influence is fading.

It seems he is seeking a little international glamour to distract the country from the reality that he has done little during his five years in office to improve the Kingdom's foreign standing.

That's from The Nation, btw

http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/04/26/pol...cs_30002557.php

No word from Bangkok Post so far.

Edited April 26, 2006 by Plus