Why I’m worth it: in defense of the dowry

[David48]

Friend of mine paid 300k, this is what he got for his money.

University educated perfect English speaking girl, no kids in tow, no baggage.

Any Gold?

How did you feel about his decision and the level of the Sin Sot paid?

I assume your friend was Farang?

[F4UCorsair]

Dress it up however you like, but you can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear. Simple as that.

I hear what other posters say about Thai men also paying sin sot, but my view was, and remains, sin sot is largely a scam Thais run against foreign men. You can tell me that the family doesn't want, or need it, but they get it anyway, and then pi$$ themselves laughing at the stupidity of the foreigner.

If I was to marry a Thai, my pitch would be that it's not my custom, therefore it's not happening. If she walked, her motive would be clear.

[David48]

If I was to marry a Thai, my pitch would be that it's not my custom, therefore it's not happening. If she walked, her motive would be clear.

... and that's the choice we all have.

But somehow, I believe it's just not that simple.

Would be nice if it was.

[SeabagsFull]

Though I believe Lite Beer's thread has about run its course, I can't help but help wanting to log one more, summarizing post.

The topic points to an article on the Web site Coconuts Bangkok, authored by Prae SakaowanSeptember (pseudonym or real, doesn't matter). Her very first words are:

"OPINION – I've often sympathized with foreign men when the word “dowry” is brought up. In the modern-day Thai culture, a dowry is still common practice in wedding ceremonies."

Prae is obviously empathetic with western thinking & the struggles foreign men endure when contemplating this question. It is one of principle versus compassion & love. Seems to me that we westerners are so set in our ways of thinking, indoctrinated if you will, that it is nearly impossible to get past the idea that we're buying a human being. I am no different, having nearly rejected the "dowry" in my own wedding.

Fortunately for me, I was able to hear my wife's feelings before it was too late. In essence, my love for her enabled me to step outside myself & see her world. In so doing, I came to understand that I had been taking myself way too seriously.

I think it is extremely difficult for anyone brought up in the west to recognize that humanity can't be governed or nurtured by ideals & laws alone, that we must listen to what others are saying & feeling. Their experiences are as real to them as ours are to us. In the case of Thai people, especially, they have grown with a belief that 2-dimensional logic cannot be given more emphasis than what's in their hearts; that is, the human element must take precedence in nearly every case.

Some of the author's last words:

"This advice applies to most relationships. If you're unfortunate enough to be dating a gold digger, you're probably financing your girl's parents with monthly payments so this article and advice are not for you."

I love this conciliatory statement by Prae. Seems she recognizes that many farang find girlfriends whose hearts have tuned to stone, girls that may be in fact "gold diggers." She obviously writes these words as a sort of disclaimer. What was that? Basically, don't read the article if you're prone to look down on your fiancée's feelings & wishes.

I have been fascinated with Thai culture since my first trip to Pattaya Beach in 1978. Having lived in Thailand for seven years & been best friends with a Thai pilot since 1994, I have been invited to more than a dozen Thai-Thai weddings. One involved an army Major General, another a pilot, a university administrator, a nurse, several university student friends. In every single case, a dowry was offered. In fact, the only times I've ever heard of a dowry not being offered, a farang was involved.

To me, this sums it up. We can debate the merits, the official history, etc. etc. etc., until our very analytical uncompromising minds snap But in the end, it really doesn't matter. Thai people will continue with the tradition of offering a dowry for some time to come, whether we like it or not.

Edited December 3, 2013 by SeabagsFull

[Roadman]

I seriously think it is required for the new bride to tuck away for living on when she becomes old news and she is cast aside by the typical thai husband for the latest model.

[MikeyIdea]

Is it not tradition that the sin sod be returned to the groom following the wedding. Thought that it was just for show, showing face as is apparently important in Asian cultures

Of course in inter cultural marriages the rules often change.

No, but the old tradition is actually that the size of the sin sod is decided depending on how many children you plan to have. I am not saying that is the way it is today of course...

When I married in Thailand the first time over 20 years ago, then the head of the family first asked how many children we planned to have, then set the price. The stupid farang (me) asked why kids were important and the head of the family patiently explained to what must have been the most stupid man he had met in a very long time why kids and sin sod go together

Rich family require much money so we agreed that I should show 400,000 baht and get 300,000 baht back after the wedding which I also got. The rest was saved for their daughters kids. And it was really saved. We lived together for a number of years, I earned the respect of the family and after 5-6 years, then the mother came and asked me and my wife if she could use the money to repair the house as she was sure that I was a responsible person and they didn't need to save it for the kids any longer. I happily agreed as the family also had earned my respect over the years

True story

Edited December 3, 2013 by MikeyIdea

[David48]

^^ That's an interesting personal take on it ... and one I've never heard before.

Well done ...

[Ozybear]

I built a home for my mother in law and the wife's brothers and sisters still asked MIL to borrow,lol, some of the value of the house because I didn't give cash. 5 years on and they are still asking for cash. It's not a tradition for the mother in law, it's a tradition for the lazy brothers and sisters that spend their money on Kia cow, gambling and pretending to be hiso because their is a farang in the family. They get absolutely zip now but MIL gets sent get allowance on a monthly basis so no one else can bleed her dry with no intensional if repaying. Resentment from the brothers and sisters is very high as MIL gifted all the farm and the house and put it in her name. So when the day comes, the only person to get anything is the only person that respects what wifey has done for her.

Sin sot, no way, respect and assist, totally.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[96tehtarp]

I agree with the gist of the OP.

However, if a man is going to pay a dowry it needs to be well negotiated as most all of it is for show of face.

The cash gets used and the gold is almost immediately returned to the shop. How much of it the newlywed couple gets use of is the result of negotiations.

There is much more to a dowry than free money for the bride's parents.

The groom who's paying the dowry is the only one who can answer the question; Is she worth it?

Personally I don't like to see farangs paying large dowries to parents who raised their daughters up to work as prostitutes.