Finger pointed at Thai Finance Ministry to fulfill rice-subsidy scheme

[webfact]

Finger pointed at Finance Ministry to fulfill rice-subsidy scheme
By English News



BANGKOK, Sept 12 – The Finance Ministry is responsible for finding funding, be it through domestic or foreign loans, for the new round of rice pledging scheme which will cost the government Bt270 billion, according to the deputy prime minister/commerce minister.

Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan was referring to an earlier statement by the Finance Ministry that it ran out of budget for rice purchase from farmers, starting October 1.

The programme was approved by the Cabinet and the Finance Ministry was obliged to find money for the scheme, he said.

He said the Commerce Ministry was speeding up selling rice from the state’s stockpiles through auctions and government-to-government trade.

The ministry closed a deal with China last week to sell another 1.2 million tonnes at a satisfactory price, he said. He did not elaborate on the price sold to China.

Deputy Commerce Minister Yanyong Phuangrach said the ministry was preparing for the new round of rice purchases from farmers and the Warehouse Organisation was granted a Bt26 million budget to develop its online system to connect all information relating to the pledging scheme for convenience and to prevent corruption in the buying process. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-09-12

[waza]

According to Thaksin's business plan for the rice scam they should have a surplus of funds by now.

[Tatsujin]

. . . which will cost the government Bt270 billion . . .

No, it will cost the country and its people Bt270 billion++++, it's not coming out of the Govt or Politicians pockets for crying out loud, it's going INTO their pockets. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!

[Ricardo]

The usual increase in BAAC's borrowing-limit will be approved shortly, rather than the government actually repaying the money they owe the bank, one suspects.

[worgeordie]

This is not going to have a nice ending , and do they know

where they are going to store all this rice,BEFORE they buy

it, The lunatics have taken over the asylum.

regards Worgeordie

[NeverSure]

BANGKOK, Sept 12 – The Finance Ministry is responsible for finding funding, be it through domestic or foreign loans, for the new round of rice pledging scheme which will cost the government Bt270 billion, according to the deputy prime minister/commerce minister.

Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan was referring to an earlier statement by the Finance Ministry that it ran out of budget for rice purchase from farmers, starting October 1.

(Credit in original post.)

So, for all who say that Thailand is in good shape financially, and even say it's sitting on a lot of reserves, let's preserve this moment to realize that the government is not only broke, but looking around for ways to borrow MORE money just to continue its schemes.

And BTW, this puts the total debt for the rice scheme over 1 trillion baht which is about 1/2 of what the leaders dream of raising for their high speed rail system, to be paid off over 50 years.

Where's this cash coming from? If they don't find it, the BAAC is bankrupt.

[jbrain]

The ministry closed a deal with China last week to sell another 1.2 million tonnes at a satisfactory price, he said

Most probably satisfactory to his own bank account

[NongKhaiKid]

What a way to run a country, bring in a populist scheme that eats money that can't be reduced let alone dropped because the rice farmers will unleash hell.

The govt is forced to extend the scheme so the Finance Ministry is simply told to find the cash, and no doubt the instruction contained words to the effect " and we don't care how you do it and don't want to know ".

The whole exercise should pose no real problems for the ministry as it is headed by a minister who has admitted he doesn't mind lying for the good of the country. He lies for someone's good not that of the country, the country would be best served by stopping throwing good money after bad but the government has successful painted itself into a corner and the paint line is getting ever nearer.

[chainarong]

They keep persisting with an un workable scheme, why, one can only think of what is in it for me syndrome, can't wait for the 2.2tn loan to reach the light of day

[kirk0233]

. . . which will cost the government Bt270 billion . . .

No, it will cost the country and its people Bt270 billion++++, it's not coming out of the Govt or Politicians pockets for crying out loud, it's going INTO their pockets. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!

Exactly The citizens of Thailand need to realize it is their money that is being squandered on this scheme. Reminds me of an MCOT news story in which one of the newscasters reported that individuals were stealing land from the forest department. Perhaps they don't realize that it is their

land and money that is being stolen.

[billd766]

Why does the government NEED to borrow the money?

It has all the money from the rice sales (so they say), it has untold billions in the foreign reserves it can use.

It doesn't account to ANYBODY how much money is gets from the sale nor how much it spends so what IS the problem?

[dcutman]

BANGKOK, Sept 12 – The Finance Ministry is responsible for finding funding, be it through domestic or foreign loans, for the new round of rice pledging scheme which will cost the government Bt270 billion, according to the deputy prime minister/commerce minister.

Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan was referring to an earlier statement by the Finance Ministry that it ran out of budget for rice purchase from farmers, starting October 1.

(Credit in original post.)

So, for all who say that Thailand is in good shape financially, and even say it's sitting on a lot of reserves, let's preserve this moment to realize that the government is not only broke, but looking around for ways to borrow MORE money just to continue its schemes.

And BTW, this puts the total debt for the rice scheme over 1 trillion baht which is about 1/2 of what the leaders dream of raising for their high speed rail system, to be paid off over 50 years.

Where's this cash coming from? If they don't find it, the BAAC is bankrupt.

Where's this cash coming from?

Good question, NeverSure.

Several State owned banks are in deep on this scam. Not to mention Krung Thai is going to be lending the Lion share of the Bt 2.2 trillion loan. But no worries for banks going bankrupt, its all guaranteed by the govt/taxpayer.

9 sept 2011-The rice-pledging scheme is expected to cost Bt400 billion for the 2011-12 crop and the Bank for Agriculture and Agricultural Cooperatives does not have adequate liquidity to finance this, Luck Wajananawat, president of the BAAC, said yesterday.

The other three state banks - Government Savings Bank, Krung Thai Bank and TMB Bank - will join in the syndicated loans.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/09/09/business/Rice-pledging-scheme-BAAC-lacks-liquidity-for-ampl-30164854.html

[Pib]

. . . which will cost the government Bt270 billion . . .

No, it will cost the country and its people Bt270 billion++++, it's not coming out of the Govt or Politicians pockets for crying out loud, it's going INTO their pockets. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!

Most Thai's don't pay taxes; therefore, as far as they are concerned it's not costing them one baht so they pretty much ignore all the news reports on the rice scheme....plus, most probably don't have a clue how the scheme works so that's another reason not to be concerned. Mai ben lai.

[Nickymaster]

Why does the government NEED to borrow the money?

It has all the money from the rice sales (so they say), it has untold billions in the foreign reserves it can use.

It doesn't account to ANYBODY how much money is gets from the sale nor how much it spends so what IS the problem?

I don't think they (government) really borrow the money because that would affect it's Government debt/GDP ratio. Currently at about 45% and 49% (forecast) at the end of this year. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/thailand/government-debt-to-gdp

They let the BAAC (bank) give the money to the farmers and the governments guarantees for paying back (rice as collateral AND taxpayers as collateral LOL). That's why the BAAC is getting nervous because since the government doesn't sell enough rice, it can't repay the bank. Large amounts outstanding.

Something like this I believe. Please anyone correct me.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Nickymaster

[ramrod711]

The programme was approved by the Cabinet and the Finance Ministry was obliged to find money for the scheme, he said.

Kind of like buying a Bentley and letting someone else worry about how you're going to pay for it. Until Thai people understand that the money being thrown away on these schemes could be used on pensions,health care and infrastructure they won't care, they think it's all free.

[pedro01]

. . . which will cost the government Bt270 billion . . .

No, it will cost the country and its people Bt270 billion++++, it's not coming out of the Govt or Politicians pockets for crying out loud, it's going INTO their pockets. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!

Most Thai's don't pay taxes; therefore, as far as they are concerned it's not costing them one baht so they pretty much ignore all the news reports on the rice scheme....plus, most probably don't have a clue how the scheme works so that's another reason not to be concerned. Mai ben lai.

You are wrong. Every Thai pays taxes.

[ratcatcher]

. . . which will cost the government Bt270 billion . . .

No, it will cost the country and its people Bt270 billion++++, it's not coming out of the Govt or Politicians pockets for crying out loud, it's going INTO their pockets. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!

Most Thai's don't pay taxes; therefore, as far as they are concerned it's not costing them one baht so they pretty much ignore all the news reports on the rice scheme....plus, most probably don't have a clue how the scheme works so that's another reason not to be concerned. Mai ben lai.

You are wrong. Every Thai pays taxes.

Every = ALL

I am sure my wife pays no taxes whatsoever, since I am the winner of the bread.

If I asked the locals they'd laugh, yet you may mean there's hidden tax on everything?

Not if you don't buy it at 7-11 or a big supermarket etc.

Care to be more specific?

[Tatsujin]

. . . which will cost the government Bt270 billion . . .

No, it will cost the country and its people Bt270 billion++++, it's not coming out of the Govt or Politicians pockets for crying out loud, it's going INTO their pockets. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!

Most Thai's don't pay taxes; therefore, as far as they are concerned it's not costing them one baht so they pretty much ignore all the news reports on the rice scheme....plus, most probably don't have a clue how the scheme works so that's another reason not to be concerned. Mai ben lai.

You are wrong. Every Thai pays taxes.

Ding, ding, fail.

The country’s tax revenue is provided by only a small group of people. According to statistics released last year, only 2.3 million people nationwide pay personal income tax to help finance public spending for the country’s population of more than 64 million. Some 9 million people file personal income tax returns each year, but the majority are exempt from tax liability as they earn less than Bt20,000 per month.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/64442/will-the-thai-middle-class-rebel-against-populist-policies/

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/09/07/opinion/Middle-class-may-rebel-against-populist-policies-30164639.html

[jaidam]

. . . which will cost the government Bt270 billion . . .

No, it will cost the country and its people Bt270 billion++++, it's not coming out of the Govt or Politicians pockets for crying out loud, it's going INTO their pockets. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!

Most Thai's don't pay taxes; therefore, as far as they are concerned it's not costing them one baht so they pretty much ignore all the news reports on the rice scheme....plus, most probably don't have a clue how the scheme works so that's another reason not to be concerned. Mai ben lai.

You are wrong. Every Thai pays taxes.

Ding, ding, fail.

The country’s tax revenue is provided by only a small group of people. According to statistics released last year, only 2.3 million people nationwide pay personal income tax to help finance public spending for the country’s population of more than 64 million. Some 9 million people file personal income tax returns each year, but the majority are exempt from tax liability as they earn less than Bt20,000 per month.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/64442/will-the-thai-middle-class-rebel-against-populist-policies/

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/09/07/opinion/Middle-class-may-rebel-against-populist-policies-30164639.html

He could have been thinking of excise duties on fuel,smokes and booze, or VAT at 7% on everything, I believe even if shopping at mom and pop stores the VAT will have been paid and passed along to the consumer when the small store bought their stock, so yes everybody will be paying tax either directly or indirectly.

[slapout]

Mean while the PM and other government groups are traveling to international destinations to try and convience private and other governments to invest their hard earned funds into Thailand. Not sure how they explain the Thai accounting system/ledger that they have adopted when they make their pleas, but "not avaliable due to Thailand's security" might not be well received in the real world.

These funds, if forthcoming would be handled with the same diligence by the cabinet, as the rice, rubber, corn, flood rehab, school tablets, auto/home purchase, the perks for civil servents, pay/retierment increases for themselves, etc.

[khunken]

. . . which will cost the government Bt270 billion . . .

No, it will cost the country and its people Bt270 billion++++, it's not coming out of the Govt or Politicians pockets for crying out loud, it's going INTO their pockets. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!

Most Thai's don't pay taxes; therefore, as far as they are concerned it's not costing them one baht so they pretty much ignore all the news reports on the rice scheme....plus, most probably don't have a clue how the scheme works so that's another reason not to be concerned. Mai ben lai.

You are wrong. Every Thai pays taxes.

Ding, ding, fail.

The country’s tax revenue is provided by only a small group of people. According to statistics released last year, only 2.3 million people nationwide pay personal income tax to help finance public spending for the country’s population of more than 64 million. Some 9 million people file personal income tax returns each year, but the majority are exempt from tax liability as they earn less than Bt20,000 per month.

http://asiancorrespondent.com/64442/will-the-thai-middle-class-rebel-against-populist-policies/

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2011/09/07/opinion/Middle-class-may-rebel-against-populist-policies-30164639.html

Sorry but your response is a - fail.

Pedro is correct - VAT, excise duty on booze & cigarettes, pickups, petrol - the list goes on. Only a Thai hermit could avoid paying some form of tax.

[Tatsujin]

Sorry but your response is a - fail.

Pedro is correct - VAT, excise duty on booze & cigarettes, pickups, petrol - the list goes on. Only a Thai hermit could avoid paying some form of tax.

Fair point, but when talking about paying "tax", most people would assume personal income tax, not VAT etc.

[hellodolly]

Why does the government NEED to borrow the money?

It has all the money from the rice sales (so they say), it has untold billions in the foreign reserves it can use.

It doesn't account to ANYBODY how much money is gets from the sale nor how much it spends so what IS the problem?

Yes I was wondering about that myself.

Then I remembered we have a government that is transparent up to the point where they have to reveal the price they sold a kilogram of rice for and then it becomes secret as a matter of National Security. A good thing they have such an ace cracker jack minister of defense in case the price got out and Thailand had to go to war.

[MegaRanter]

You pay arrears when you buy a car.

There will riots in Europe if Thai auto duties were to implemented in Europe.

[ChrisY1]

. . . which will cost the government Bt270 billion . . .

No, it will cost the country and its people Bt270 billion++++, it's not coming out of the Govt or Politicians pockets for crying out loud, it's going INTO their pockets. WAKE UP PEOPLE!!!!!

Exactly The citizens of Thailand need to realize it is their money that is being squandered on this scheme. Reminds me of an MCOT news story in which one of the newscasters reported that individuals were stealing land from the forest department. Perhaps they don't realize that it is their

land and money that is being stolen.

The majority of the populace do not understand about "government" money.....there is little perception out there that it is actually taxpayers money.....they won't wake up to something they do not understand

[MoonShadow]

You are correct, most Thais do not understand that a Government has NO MONEY; it can only spend what it raises in taxes OR borrows......QED most Thai's do not pay tax that they can see....VAT is nominal to them if they shop at markets and drink Lao Kao.....so no big deal. What is happening here is the Government saying to the Finance Ministry, " you have to find the money...." Guess what, its like a Bank having a lot of defaulting loans asking the markets for Capital.......the price just goes up!!

S & P and Moody's will soon lower the Soverign debt rating for Thailand and the cost of borrowing will go only one way.....who pays for this.....not the farmers in Isaan or the Mom and Pop stores or the noodle sellers or street traders, but the businesses and people who pay business or personal In come Tax......why should they pay for something which doesn't benefit them......"seconds out - round Two"......

Edited September 12, 2013 by MoonShadow

[siampolee]

The account is overdrawn and before long the red blood of the overdrawn account is going to start to bleed this country and its people and result in a serious financial injury as was the situation in 1997.

Same signals, same denials everything in the garden smells of roses. trouble is roses thrive on male bovine waste fecal matter which is the same nutrient that this puppet government is feeding to the electorate.

The fact that the country's financial data matters have been and still are regarded as state secrets indeed tells the world at large what a dream team the country's financial experts are, they put me in mind of Mrs.Palm and her five daughters with their technique for handling financial matters.

The experts have sweet dreams or wet dreams , however the people of the country get the nightmares and wake up stiff with fright .

Edited September 12, 2013 by siampolee

[waza]

You are correct, most Thais do not understand that a Government has NO MONEY; it can only spend what it raises in taxes OR borrows......QED most Thai's do not pay tax that they can see....VAT is nominal to them if they shop at markets and drink Lao Kao.....so no big deal. What is happening here is the Government saying to the Finance Ministry, " you have to find the money...." Guess what, its like a Bank having a lot of defaulting loans asking the markets for Capital.......the price just goes up!!

S & P and Moody's will soon lower the Soverign debt rating for Thailand and the cost of borrowing will go only one way.....who pays for this.....not the farmers in Isaan or the Mom and Pop stores or the noodle sellers or street traders, but the businesses and people who pay business or personal In come Tax......why should they pay for something which doesn't benefit them......"seconds out - round Two"......

Good point Moon Shadow, this current Thai administration is spending more that it raises, 20% of the annual budget is funded by debt. This debt is on the books, the rice scam, 1997 debt, onion scam, rubber scam and the proposed 2.2 trillion debt are all off the books. Eventually all these debts have to be paid or at least maintained, that means every Thai and ex-pat can expect increased taxes, fees, levies and rampant inflation, that is the cost of living in Thailand will increase and the quality of life will decrease. Anyone who doesnt accept the fundamental truth of this is living in LaLa land.

Edited September 12, 2013 by waza

[MoonShadow]

You are correct, most Thais do not understand that a Government has NO MONEY; it can only spend what it raises in taxes OR borrows......QED most Thai's do not pay tax that they can see....VAT is nominal to them if they shop at markets and drink Lao Kao.....so no big deal. What is happening here is the Government saying to the Finance Ministry, " you have to find the money...." Guess what, its like a Bank having a lot of defaulting loans asking the markets for Capital.......the price just goes up!!

S & P and Moody's will soon lower the Soverign debt rating for Thailand and the cost of borrowing will go only one way.....who pays for this.....not the farmers in Isaan or the Mom and Pop stores or the noodle sellers or street traders, but the businesses and people who pay business or personal In come Tax......why should they pay for something which doesn't benefit them......"seconds out - round Two"......

This current Thai administration is spending more that it raises, 20% of the annual budget is funded by debt. This debt is on the books, the rice scam, 1997 debt, onion scam, rubber scam and the proposed 2.2 trillion debt are all off the books. Eventually all these debts have to be paid or at least maintained, that means every Thai and ex-pat can expect increased taxes, fees, levies and rampant inflation, that is the cost of living in Thailand will increase and the quality of life will decrease. Anyone who doesnt accept the fundamental truth of this is living in LaLa land.

As my wife says..."Thailand is walking backwards to the klongs..."

Yes she is Thai and understands what is happening, and no, she is not a well educated BKK Thai either, but she has lived outside of Thailand, speaks good English and runs a successful business so she knows who is going to pay for this......

[Bagwan]

Lots of good stuff from the gloom merchants here and I wouldn't care to disagree with the dark forebodings that they prophesy. Looking at the future begs the question what happens if Thailand reneges on it's debts?

Some time ago it was bandied about that Thaksin would be the leader of ASEAN. What a prospect knowing what we know now.