Shared Custody

[ArranP]

My ex-girlfriend is pregnant and I am the father (we both live in Thailand).

Currently, she does not want me to have any contact with her or the baby and may try to disappear within Thailand if I try to maintain contact.

Therefore things I must do going forward are:

i) Petition the court to legalize my rights as father of the child.

ii) employ a private detective to find her if she disappears

Assuming I now have legalized my rights as father to the child, have shared custody and know the village where she and my child are (when born), what is the safest way to spend time with my child ?

For example, imagine I arrive in my car at her house and she does not want to let me in the house or let the child come stay with me ? what is the safest thing I can do to spend time with my child without people getting physically hurt ?

Thankyou.

Edited October 1, 2013 by ArranP

[Mario2008]

There are two steps that need to be taken.

1. you petition the court to be recognised as the legal father of the child, which must be done after the birth of the child.

2. you apply for shared custody.

While step 1 is no problem, allthough you can get a long delay if the mother doesn't cooperate, step 2 is more of a problem. The mother can object to you getting parental rights, even if the court decide you are the legal father. Best ask a lawyer about your chances.

Your legal options to get real access are limited if the mother doesn't cooperate, just as in any country. A judge is not ging to send a mother to jail for that. Also realize that a very yung child doesn't have a great memory. You will be a complete stranger to the child.

Not until a child turns about 4 does it remember things for a long time. That will seriously hamper any relationship you want to have with the child and could make contact with the child a traumatic event for the child itself.

I would try to contact family members of your ex-gf to see if they are willing to talk to her about working something out.

[ArranP]

Assuming thr mother and farher are awarded parental rights by the court.

The mother still won't let the child spend time with its father.

What can be done?

[GirlDrinkDrunk]

petition the court for time

[Mario2008]

Assuming thr mother and farher are awarded parental rights by the court.

The mother still won't let the child spend time with its father.

What can be done?

The short answer is: pray.

The long answer is that it depends on if the mother will take care of the child herself. If she doesn't, you can petition the court to become the prime care taker instead of the mother. Natural course is that the child is being taken care of by the parents, not by for example the granparents, uncle or aunt.

But if the child is taken care of by the mother, there is not much that can be done. The police will not take the child for you and doing it yourself could be dangerous and certainly will be traumatic for the child. In addition you will be a stranger to the child, adding to the stress of such a fight. Not a very sensible thing to do.

[ArranP]

If the child is taken care of by the mother and the mother prevents the child from seeing the father. Then the father will never see the child .

Do I understand correct?

[Mario2008]

If the child is taken care of by the mother and the mother prevents the child from seeing the father. Then the father will never see the child .

Do I understand correct?

Yes. Sad buth true. If the mother doesn't want to cooperate it will be hell to enforce.

The best option is to seek mediation through the family of the mother.

[ArranP]

Assuming I have parental rights, shared custody and the mother takes care of the child. If the mother and the mothers family refuses to let father and child spend time together.

The only recourse left for the father is by physical force? I.e. a security team of men with muscle, witnesses and video recording equipment?

[Mario2008]

Force would not be advisable.

1. it is not in the intrest/welbeing of the child

2. it can provoke a counter reaction

3. it might be grounds for criminal charges against you (and have you expelled)

4. it might be grounds for revocation of your parental rights, in the intrest of the child.

[ArranP]

Assuming father and mother have parental rights and mother takes care if child.

Also, assuming mother comes to no harm and child does not witness the event.

Can the child legally be taken from the mother by the father without the mothers consent?

[Mario2008]

If the court says the child will stay with you every Saturday and on a Saturday you would be able to take the child away from the mother, when she perhaps isn't looking, it will probably be legal.

In the real world you will have a problem that you take a child that might not want to be taken, who sees you as a stranger, might start screaming for help, together with the mother, etc.

And even if all succeeds, next time will be much harder to take the child as the mother will be more careful.

[ArranP]

Here, I understand the court has no power to make the mother comply with its ruling regarding visitation rights its granted to the father.

Is it correct?

Thus a mother can deny the child from ever knowing its father?

[Mario2008]

That is a fact in almost any country.

[ArranP]

That is a fact in almost any country.

Whilst the mother does not consent to the child seeing its father, what is to be gained in the father establishing "parental rights", "shared custody", "legalised father" and "visitation rights" ?

Edited October 1, 2013 by ArranP

[Mario2008]

In the future you can show that you have tried and did your best to establish contact, if your child want to contact you.

In practical sense it would allow you to get a non-O visa, but not extensions of stay. Also you would be able to give your child an inherentance as your child. That might have better tax implications.

[ArranP]

In the future you can show that you have tried and did your best to establish contact, if your child want to contact you.

In practical sense it would allow you to get a non-O visa, but not extensions of stay. Also you would be able to give your child an inherentance as your child. That might have better tax implications.

Non-O visa is not required.

I already have custody of 2 children (thai/british) (2 and 5 years) from my previous marriage, they attend British International School in Phuket, I have a nanny that helps me at home, and don't need to go out to work, and am financially "good".

Might these facts help my case ?

What about my 2 children ? the new-born child will also be their half brother or sister ? What about their enforcing their visitation rights, does this improve my case ?

[Mario2008]

It certainly won't hurt your case. But these questions are better asked to a lawyer who has a lot of experience with actual cases.

The actual court where you will be dealing with will also be a factor.

[ArranP]

It is the right of children to have a “meaningful relationship” with both parents after a separation.

[ArranP]

Where it is plainly in the best interests of a child to spend time with the other parent then, tough or not, part of the responsibility of the parent with care must be the duty and responsibility to deliver what the child needs, hard though that may be

[Mario2008]

An old laywers joke is about a man who went broke twice: The first time was wen he lost his case. The second time when he won his case.

Having a right and enforcing a right are two different things.

[ArranP]

the mother has substantial assets.

if the mother denies a court order granting fathers visitation rights, it is then an option for the father to sue the mother ?

[Mario2008]

Best ask of lawyer.

[belg]

you are not married, you have no rights

[Falcon]

AranP, with all due respect, your question has been answered by Mario2008 many times and still you continue to ask, albeit in different ways, the same questions over and over and it seems that you will continue to ask the same questions until you get the answer that you are looking for even though, if you finally get that answer, it won't be the correct one legally.

If you are not married to the lady then your chances of getting anywhere in this, if she doesn't play ball with you, is almost zero! She may not even put your name down on the birth certificate as the father, then it's another battle to prove yourself as the father of the child.

I am sure that many here will sympathize with your situation but in reality it is just something that you will need to try to sort out with the child's mother, preferably before the baby is born.

I wish you the best of luck,

[ppmacready]

If you were lucky enough to get a ''special'' girl from a bar.

Don't waste your money using the courts.

Offer to buy the baby!

[kingstonkid]

NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE HERE BUT..........

Stop looking here and go get a <deleted> LAWYER

I am sorry but one of the things that really puzzles me is all the people that come here to solve issues that need real professionals.

All the advice above is good BUT it still comes down to stop reading and posting here and get a lawyer to find out your rights here in Thailand.

[nontabury]

NO OFFENSE TO ANYONE HERE BUT..........

Stop looking here and go get a <deleted> LAWYER

I am sorry but one of the things that really puzzles me is all the people that come here to solve issues that need real professionals.

All the advice above is good BUT it still comes down to stop reading and posting here and get a lawyer to find out your rights here in Thailand.

Give Sebastian at Essan lawyers a ring, he knows the law on this subject, plus he will not B.S you like most Thai lawyers will.

You're first problem is in trying to prove the child is actually yours. For Your Own SANITY if the mother is not going to co-operate, better for you to try and forget the child.Sorry! If this is not what you want to hear, but I'm just trying to be realistic.

[cabanlit]

She may well start to converse and cooperate with you again - when she wants some money.

Not being flippant, that is a realistic potential outcome, and one which may smooth things somewhat.

[benalibina]

Its not always about money. Many people make that mistake regarding Thai way of thinking. Too prejudiced.

[ArranP]

we're talking again now, things might be ok, even if we don't get back together, I think at least there is a relationship there going forward.

she is pretty well off herself, its not about money.

Edited October 3, 2013 by ArranP