Landlord says he will lock doors to condo this afternoon

[NanLaew]

...

One week late, first warning, two weeks late, second warning. Warning includes a cancellation of the contract and when that cancellation is accepted the deposit is returned minus the rent.

One month late, locks changed and one day access to remove personal belongings under supervision and no return of deposit.

This is also stated in the contract so it is clear from the start.

...

All landlords should have this in their leases.

Too many farang bludgers here these days. If they can't afford the financials for a visa, they probably can't make the rent once they get here!

[indyuk]

If the owner wants you gone he will wait until you are out. He will place all of your possessions on the pavement and lock the doors. When you get home your neighbours will have robbed out your possessions.

If you break in he will call the police. They will likely arrest you unless you have cash for the landlord of course cash for the BIB.

Best is to move voluntarily, leave no forwarding address.

If you feel you have to call the police call the tourist police. The BIB and the Immigration police will not help you because you have broken your Visa conditions which require you to have access to cash at all times.

Sounds tough but this is what often happens.

[thousandpercent]

She spoke to a lawyer which said they had no right to do that. But the police would only interfere if they were to lock her inside. TIT.

If it's stated in the contract that the rent has to be paid in full by a certain date and your friend hasn't done so, then of course the landlord can enforce the contract.

Why shouldn't he, does your friend think he has the right to live in someone else's property without paying?

According to Thai law she has that right. Why do you think landlords should be above the law?

So according to this Thai "lawyer" she can stay forever without paying rent??

Be a good boy now and take your medication! (Share it with your friend)

What you have put forth is called a straw man.

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

1. Person A has position X.
2. Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
3. Person B attacks position Y.
4. Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

Nowhere in the comment you responded to does it say "forever". It might be that a lawyer advised then tenant that under Thai law a landlord can evict a tennant only after giving proper notice, and that the landlord has not done so. It might be that a lawyer advised the tenant that under Thai law a landlord can evict a tenant only with a court order, and the landlord does not have one. There a a gamut of other possibilities. Your assumption that because a landlord can't presently evict a tenant that a landlord can never evict a tenant is intellectually lazy and overtly disrespectful.

You add to your straw man argument argumentum ad hominem.

Ad hominem attacks can take the form of overtly attacking somebody, or more subtly casting doubt on their character or personal attributes as a way to discredit their argument. The result of an ad hom attack can be to undermine someone's case without actually having to engage with it.

You set out to ridicule someone for something that you made up. In other words, rather than addressing the facts before you, you attempted to be a dick. You succeeded.

[adweb00]

It seems everyone does not know what they are talking about here. I was rending a condo Had 3 months deposit so the last month I did not pay. the Landlord threatened keep my deposits The landlord had his lawyer call me and ask what was the problem. So I told him he was treatening to keep my deposits and not give 2 months back.

The lawyer then told me He cannot do this he has to pay the deposits back after I vacate the premise at the end of the month. Although he has the right to inspect the premise before refunding any outstanding deposit

The lawyer told me it is MY RIGHT to do this and would talk to the landlord and instruct him that the deposit would have to be returned less any damages and outstanding rent. Since I did not pay the last months rent he deduced that amount and 500 baht for something broken on the Book shelve which was very fair since he had had real advise from HIS attorney

So if it is your last month then according to the Lawyer there should be no problem but if it is during the life the the lease and before the last month you will have problems

So everyone here please stop giving advise that you have no experience on or guessing as to what you think the law is

USE a lawyer and get the facts

Ha ha ha please let us all know when you eventually lose and how much it all ended up costing you ok? T.I.T u will see

[hellodolly]

So according to this Thai "lawyer" she can stay forever without paying rent?? width=32 alt=cheesy.gif>

If it's stated in the contract that the rent has to be paid in full by a certain date and your friend hasn't done so, then of course the landlord can enforce the contract.

Why shouldn't he, does your friend think he has the right to live in someone else's property without paying?

Be a good boy now and take your medication! (Share it with your friend)

I think he already has shared it

So according to this Thai "lawyer" she can stay forever without paying rent?? width=32 alt=cheesy.gif>

Be a good boy now and take your medication! (Share it with your friend)

Obviously not. I assume it works the same way it works in many countries in Europe. She can stay until she gets evicted by a Thai court.

Tenants can play hardball as well. Just off the top of my head I can think of a few things to do such as drill holes in the walls, tear up the linoleum floor, break every furniture in the apartment and flood the place. In my opinion, as a landlord, you are not really in a position to expletive deleted with your tenants this way.

5 weeks late and not able to expletive deleted the tenant How late do you think before they can expletive deleted evict a tenant. The damage deposit is up front for tenets like you. It is not a payment of rent.

[crazykopite]

72 hour late and I would be kicking the tenant out think the Landlord in this case has been more than fair if it were me I would be putting 2/3% daily interest on the rent owed as well after all it is not a charity organisation !!!!!!!!

[robertson468]

So according to this Thai "lawyer" she can stay forever without paying rent??

Be a good boy now and take your medication! (Share it with your friend)

Obviously not. I assume it works the same way it works in many countries in Europe. She can stay until she gets evicted by a Thai court.

Tenants can play hardball as well. Just off the top of my head I can think of a few things to do such as drill holes in the walls, tear up the linoleum floor, break every furniture in the apartment and flood the place. In my opinion, as a landlord, you are not really in a position to expletive deleted with your tenants this way.

What an unpleasant train of thought you have. Memo to self: Never rent a house to this Guy

[Andre0720]

Oh thats better...so 10 years ??

I didn't say it was better. I am simply pointing out what the law says.

In my country you will get evicted after 3 months. And I think that's more reasonable.

Oh yes, some countries have good protection for the losers who move from one apartment to the other for a free 3 month stay...

[HerbalEd]

So according to this Thai "lawyer" she can stay forever without paying rent??

Be a good boy now and take your medication! (Share it with your friend)

Obviously not. I assume it works the same way it works in many countries in Europe. She can stay until she gets evicted by a Thai court.

Tenants can play hardball as well. Just off the top of my head I can think of a few things to do such as drill holes in the walls, tear up the linoleum floor, break every furniture in the apartment and flood the place. In my opinion, as a landlord, you are not really in a position to expletive deleted with your tenants this way.

What are you? Twelve years old? Your friend should read the contract she signed and abide by it.

[farmer floyd]

I have been in rental business for 49 years, It was easy in the first 20 years where always shortage of

housing (Boise Idaho) USA. Now lots of housing and people are just less honest and too many lawyers

to 3 months to get non paying renter out. One lady got run into by driver with no insurance which hurt

my renter who could not pay rent. I let her stay 3 months and then paid for first month rent in your apt so to get rid of her. I am not in the welfare business but cost me $2300, before it was over.

Bigger deposit you get BETTER RENTER you get. Get PET deposit, just last month a women who lived

6 months in my House got a dog and worked 8 hrs a day and POOR dog dug under every door in living room thru carpet and pad to the wood. Could not match carpet and had to put NEW carpet which I did myself. cost over $500 5 days cleaning windows and hauling to dump old carpet plus labor installing.

Land lord is always there at same address to get sued by some lawyer and when tenant moves out of state you need a private dick. to chase them down and after months to years to get it to court they have no

money and can't get blood out of a turnip.

Sure wish we had laws like Thailand. US has gone to crazy socialist ideas like Europe and see what shape they are in. Another book of how to go broke fast in world today. Sure glad I am 70 yrs old and dont haft to look at what is coming down the road. AINT PRETTY !

But after the 08 crash here I bought 2 bed, 2 bath houses in Florida 8 miles from Gulf for as low

as $ 20,000. dollars and improve with thermo windows and insulation, rent for 600.00 which pays for house in 41 months. What kind of return is that? (about 30%). Just CHECK References real good and

1000. deposit from older people, younger think world owes them a living, see that all over don't you.

[JUDAS]

Why can't some people just accept responsibility for their life. You rent a property for an agreed amount to be paid monthly so pay it. If you are having financial problems immediately speak to the landlord, explain your situation and see if a different payment schedule can be reach. If he tells you to get out then that's perfectly within his moral rights. Why the hell should someone supply anyone with free accommodation?

[bangkokstick]

As a landlord I do what I want and I would lock your friend out after throwing away all his <deleted>.

[ChoakMyDee]

I don't understand how the OP is so angry at the landlord for wanting his rent paid. You think your friend should be able to stay there for free?

[dao16]

What seems weird to me is that a lawyer--not cheap--would be consulted instead of just paying the rent. I would imagine the landlord and this tenant already have some other problems. Otherwise, they would have a little more trust established about the deposit.

[BradinAsia]

Here contracts are not worth the paper they are written on. Even the 30 year leases on land encouraged when buying houses are no protection here. Two examples. As for contracts. Guy takes out 9 year contract 3 plus 3 plus 3 landlord wants it back after 6. Does not renew last 3, your OUT. You take him to court the case never ends up with you getting the 3 years you want. NEVER. Next example, you buy a house, put it in a Thai name, take out a 30 year lease on the land with that same Thai to protect you from the Thai selling the house. The Thai kicks you out of the house. You go to the police. Police say nothing they can do without court order. You take Thai to court. Thai does not turn up, Case gets adjourned, next time same again, Thai is sick and has proof, case adjourned. Two years later the case gets herd. You win. You go to the police. Police then say it is a domestic and still reluctant to help. You then go to court to get an order against the police to act. Police then evict the Thai. The Thai then repeatedly smashes the windows from the land boundary. You can not do anything, the house is theirs and they are damaging their own property and have not trespassed on your land. This has happened, i have been involved initially and seen it all develop with my own eyes.

The examples you give have nothing to do with renting a condo/apartment

and are therefore immaterial to this discussion.

"Here contracts are not worth the paper they are written on."

My own experience renting from 5 different landlords since I've lived in

Thailand -- I've never been cheated nor denied return of my deposit nor

has any landlord failed to abide by the lease agreement.

To the contrary, I've found Thai landlord's to quite honest and reasonable.

Certainly more so than some in my home country I had experience with.

Most of my friends also say they've had the same fair treatment by Thai

landlords as I've had.

From the gloomy stories I've seen here on TV, I can't help but think that in

some case (surely not all) folks invite their own problem due to an attitude of

superiority, surliness, lack of common decency and good manners.

I'm not trying to say that people don't have problems here -- there are

plenty of cases of real problems, some are indeed mind-boggling, but,

then again, maybe it depends a lot on what area you live in.

[Sceptict11]

I really , really, want to know where the OP is sleeping tonight !

[ableguy]

you are not in your country ..?? What a brain dead.

Oh thats better...so 10 years ??

I didn't say it was better. I am simply pointing out what the law says.

In my country you will get evicted after 3 months. And I think that's more reasonable.

[Businessman]

As others have already pointed out, the deposit is to cover damages and unpaid utilities. It is not to be used in lieu of rental payments. I would add that your legal liability for damage is not limited to your deposit amount. I would highly advise against trying to "play hardball" by damaging the landlord's property unless you are prepared to pay for full reparations. And likely find yourself spending a lot of time in court if you refuse.

Legally your landlord is obliged to return your deposit, have a little faith. The law would be on your side.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Businessman

[Saradoc1972]

This is mostly about realities of life vs. legal procedures of enforcement of contracts and eviction. This goes for Thailand much as for everywhere else.

I very much assume Thai law has all the proper laws and procedures in place for that sort of problem, and all of them get invoked in some court all the time in the right setup, like between some educated middle-class Thais or between companies somewhere in Bangkok. But with a view to "normal" Thai populace and/or some foreigner reality keeps kicking in.

Thailand is, as most developing countries, mostly a "cash-on-nail" society, as in: give money => get bowl of som-tan. (obviously the same in western countries with certain clientele. Sorry Sir, with your financial situation you only get a prepaid card for your mobile, or some thing like that) This obviously doesn't work with long-term contracts such as rentals.

With unpaid rent under a contract the legal point of view is a complete no-brainer, as is the distinction between rent and deposit. But law doesn't give you money as such, but only a claim, which might be quite worthless when your foreigner quits the country or your Thai manual worker skips town to take on the next cash-on-nail job. Hence, western ideas of impounding assets have not really caught on in Thailand and solutions are bound to be a lot more "hands-on".

I very much doubt it would be legal for a Thai landlord to evict his tenant on his own, whether by physically dragging him out or by changing the locks, no matter what the contract says. This is an emanation of "monopoly on violence" which is reserved for the state through laws and procedure. Otherwise, you get situations where landlord changes the lock, tenant whips out his drill to break it, and the next day it's Team A versus Team B dukeing it out with baseball bats. Which does happen, I suppose.

Police will be of little help here, as they would have to judge who is right by looking at contracts, bank-statements and the parties' claims. This is what a judge is supposed to do, so police will most likely keep out of that; more or less the same in western countries.

With a view on how the law and the police work in Thailand, i.e. based on standing in society where a foreigner generally draws the shorter straw, I would very much recommend the OP keep out of "physical" situations. This is less about whatever the law may be in Thailand than about who is stronger in the short run. Finding yourself out on the street without your stuff and access to important documents is a situation best avoided.

As the problem is apparently based on both parties fearing for their respective money, it might be best to meet and talk things through. If you just withhold the rent, and probably without any notice as to why, this is the surest and fastest way to get any landlord p+ssed off in a hurry, this is nothing to with Thailand.

[Saradoc1972]

As others have already pointed out, the deposit is to cover damages and unpaid utilities. It is not to be used in lieu of rental payments. I would add that your legal liability for damage is not limited to your deposit amount. I would highly advise against trying to "play hardball" by damaging the landlord's property unless you are prepared to pay for full reparations. And likely find yourself spending a lot of time in court if you refuse.

Legally your landlord is obliged to return your deposit, have a little faith. The law would be on your side.

That's how I see it. A lot of dealings in Thailand might not be based much on law, but the law generally works for otherwise society would fail to function. Thailand may be a lot more free and less regulated, which is why a lot of people like it here, but it's not the wild wild west.

[mamui]

It's better luck for the future to pay ones way and not be out to fool the landlord.

Even if the landlord is a mean old Chinessy type it's best to pay and if he screws you well bad luck on him in the future and poor him, the little bit of money he took won't bring him any happiness. And in future best to avoid mean little evil eyed foggers like him and follow ones own instincts to rent from more decent normal types.

Things work out.

[diceq]

I am not going to play hardball. I was just pointing out that some people can and will do just that.

Rent is now paid and the problem resolved. Thanks to the people who gave useful information. And to those that gave me a few chuckles.

Edited October 6, 2013 by Maestro
Deleted part of post which is reply to hidden post,

[sustento]

First, how do you smash the place up if you can't get in?

[MMarlow]

She spoke to a lawyer which said they had no right to do that. But the police would only interfere if they were to lock her inside. TIT.

If it's stated in the contract that the rent has to be paid in full by a certain date and your friend hasn't done so, then of course the landlord can enforce the contract.

Why shouldn't he, does your friend think he has the right to live in someone else's property without paying?

According to Thai law she has that right. Why do you think landlords should be above the law?

Why does your friend think that she has the right to take advantage of the owner of the property in which she lives by not paying the rent and expecting no consequences from her selfish attitude?

[MMarlow]

So according to this Thai "lawyer" she can stay forever without paying rent??

Be a good boy now and take your medication! (Share it with your friend)

Obviously not. I assume it works the same way it works in many countries in Europe. She can stay until she gets evicted by a Thai court.

Tenants can play hardball as well. Just off the top of my head I can think of a few things to do such as drill holes in the walls, tear up the linoleum floor, break every furniture in the apartment and flood the place. In my opinion, as a landlord, you are not really in a position to expletive deleted with your tenants this way.

Linoleum floor? Your friend lives in a very nice place then.

If your friend is planning on staying without paying rent why would she want to drill holes in the walls, destroy the furniture or flood the apartment? Sounds like you and your friend are a couple of liabilities.

Try playing hardball with a Thai landlord and you will quickly find out that the landlord can indeed expletive deleted with the tenant regardless of your opinion.

[Marc Fernandez]

Deposits are precisely that, they are not 2 months paid up front to be taken off at the end.

Probaly best for your friend to pay the rent on time like it ses in the contract then every else would irrevelent, probaly not legal to kick someone out for paying the rent late but the law doesn't operate in this country the same way it does in the western world ( no PC here) !

I agree 100%. I own property in Bang Saray and I'm sick and tired of farangs either getting behind with rent or using the deposit as some kind of 'advance payment' which it is not. Forget the law ... it,s the right for every property owner to expect payment as agreed. If there are circumstances beyond the control of the tenant (i.e. sickness, problems with bank etc) I'm happy to sit down and discuss it and see how I can help. Threats of lawyers etc will get a swift, and possibly very unpleasant response.

[Maestro]

Off-topic post about US president removed.

[trogers]

So according to this Thai "lawyer" she can stay forever without paying rent??

Be a good boy now and take your medication! (Share it with your friend)

Obviously not. I assume it works the same way it works in many countries in Europe. She can stay until she gets evicted by a Thai court.

Tenants can play hardball as well. Just off the top of my head I can think of a few things to do such as drill holes in the walls, tear up the linoleum floor, break every furniture in the apartment and flood the place. In my opinion, as a landlord, you are not really in a position to expletive deleted with your tenants this way.

Linoleum floor? Your friend lives in a very nice place then.

If your friend is planning on staying without paying rent why would she want to drill holes in the walls, destroy the furniture or flood the apartment? Sounds like you and your friend are a couple of liabilities.

Try playing hardball with a Thai landlord and you will quickly find out that the landlord can indeed expletive deleted with the tenant regardless of your opinion.

A couple of foreigners did just that in Phuket and were charged in court and prevented from leaving the country until the case was settled.

[dighambara]

We have some experience with that.

One week late, first warning, two weeks late, second warning. Warning includes a cancellation of the contract and when that cancellation is accepted the deposit is returned minus the rent.

One month late, locks changed and one day access to remove personal belongings under supervision and no return of deposit.

This is also stated in the contract so it is clear from the start.

Happened only two times in the last ten years (both times a foreigner btw), so it works very well to prevent late payments.

Sincere cases of bad luck or sickness we always treat different and even waive one or two months rent.

Payments are expected one day after the tenant receives his salary, we specifically check for that and also mention the day in the contract.

If a tenant can not pay the rent right after receiving salary, chances it will be a bigger problem in the future is big.

So what happens to your friend is in my opinion a good step to take by the owner. Doing nothing will probably escalate the situation. All the above should be in a contract because practically that is what is going to happen anyway. Informing the tenant is very important as it can prevent these kinds of situations.

IMHO - this is a difficult attitude, although I agree in principle. I am independent and refuse to jump thu another's hoops and bend only when necessary, griping all the while.

My income arrives usually by the 5th, but the electric company wants their payment on the 1st. My wife handles the bills - which explains why there is no reserve...LOL

The situation repeats nearly every month; a guy comes around on the 3rd (except weekends) to check why the bill wasn't paid.

Typically, the money is deposited that same afternoon and electrical is paid that day, but this is a regular occurrance and the electric company just won't understand - no money = no payment.

Apparently Thailand has no concept of payment in advance or of 'Grace Period'.

[ericthai]

It seems everyone does not know what they are talking about here. I was rending a condo Had 3 months deposit so the last month I did not pay. the Landlord threatened keep my deposits The landlord had his lawyer call me and ask what was the problem. So I told him he was treatening to keep my deposits and not give 2 months back.

The lawyer then told me He cannot do this he has to pay the deposits back after I vacate the premise at the end of the month. Although he has the right to inspect the premise before refunding any outstanding deposit

The lawyer told me it is MY RIGHT to do this and would talk to the landlord and instruct him that the deposit would have to be returned less any damages and outstanding rent. Since I did not pay the last months rent he deduced that amount and 500 baht for something broken on the Book shelve which was very fair since he had had real advise from HIS attorney

So if it is your last month then according to the Lawyer there should be no problem but if it is during the life the the lease and before the last month you will have problems

So everyone here please stop giving advise that you have no experience on or guessing as to what you think the law is

USE a lawyer and get the facts

Yes, ,and many do know what we are talking about. How long have you lived here? How many places have you rented? Does not matter what the laws say or the contract. Been in Thailand almost 20 years. I have been screwed out of my deposit twice. Try and take the landlord to court, it will cost you more money and time to win and get your deposit back than what it is worth. The landlord will make excuses that they had to re-paint, fix this, that. In the end you lose. Better to just figure in that you will lose the deposit and if you get it back you are ahead.

As for the OP, you asked for advise and then want to complain and disagree with everyone, so why did you even bother to ask? Your friend is wrong. Period!!

He is living there he needs to pay the rent on time. The landlord is not throwing your friend out, he is only preventing him access to the room util he pays what is owed. Grow UP!!