Being religious: thai vs farang

[northernjohn]

"I was an atheist for a while but I gave it up. No holidays!" --Jackie Mason

There seems to be a trend these last few years for professing atheists to be more aggressive in championing their point of view, and ridiculing those who believe in any sort of "non-scientific" religious doctrine. This is just as unattractive as the evangelists who push their various programs.

To each his own.

The only difference being that the Atheists are actually right. And considering how the religious seem to be forcing their doctrines on others, schools and the state it is becoming necessary to repel these mythical idiots with more vocal means.

So am I to understand you that because you do not hold the beliefs I do you whould shove them down my throat. At least people with religious beliefs have a hope. You have nothing.

I see atheism as nothing more than a different set of beliefs. Possibly become Islamic like with there my way or the high way. At least Christianity has out grown that part of it's childish life.

I have no problems with atheist as long as they hold it to them selves I know three One was in a fox hole and never prayed the other was in a life boat in the second WW and admits he prayed the third never was in a fox hole and I find him very interesting to talk with but he is not trying to sell me his beliefs just explain them.

We all have views and some such as your self speak with a closed mind others with as closed a mind as yours on the other end of the discussion and most of us some where in between. I think there is a great number of agnostics who don't run around pushing their doubts.

What gets me is the close minded atheist. There belief is that Science has all the answers and in fact science is still learning new questions and ways of researching old questions. The atheist base there feet firmly in mid air. Absolutely no proof one way or the other.

Edit

Maybe there is no God if there was one why would he make such as lousey speller out of me.

Edited October 8, 2013 by northernjohn

[garet]

Unfortunately, their are thousands of American Christian missionaries and Bible bashers in Thailand (Watch out for the Koreans too).

These missionaries try to convert the Thais to be fundamentalist Christians. This is the extreme wing of Christianity often found in the US. They believe that anyone who isn't chsitstian will not "be saved" and go to hell and believe everything in the Bible is 100% real and accurate. There are many Thai Christian converts who are now missionaries peddling this rubbish as well. Go to any university and you will see them very active.

They always offer a phony "English Camp", "Youth Camp" or such rubbish. Then when the students join the camp, they start preaching about Christianity and teaching the Bible. Why can't they be honest and at least call it "Bible" or "Christian Camp"?

Anyway, I've met several Thais who have been brainwashed by this and they become quite strange, talking about Jesus all day and trying to bring all of their friends to church.

Thais are far better off sticking to Buddhism then this.

[Nayet]

No, it has not made me any more religious than before I came to Thailand, and like someone said, Thais don't seem to know anything about Buddhism. My girlfriend knows almost nothing about the life of Buddha and what he taught, which is a pity, because unlike most religions, Buddhism actually has something to offer when you strip away all the superstitious baggage, which ironically, is the only part my girlfriend knows anything about.

[Flute]

I think, Thai religious by the people is mainly traditional, not inside. I have had a girl friend who knows all prayers to answer the monk in ceremonies. She stayed two years in temple, but she doesn't know anythink about the inner process of Buddhas teaching. She gives gifts to monks often. I think there are more superstition than believing in Buddha.

The society is materialistic like by us and the smile from inside you can find more in Myanmar, not here.

I am a very, very desilunsionistic person about what kind of importance Buddhisme is in Thailand.

It is maybe a consequence of better circumstances in life to lose religion.

But I am thinking, that the inner problems grew with materialistic prosperity more and more. To lie is in Thailand normal. To lie is not possible in this religion, also not to kill animal? The Thai do all this.

The most of all people in the world are more all less schizophrenic.

[partington]

Not to start a war or a debate here but I can only speak with certainty for Catholicism. They do not teach that there is a hell. The system makes allowances for people to say what ever they want to say but unless it is under the words of the pope using his supposed infallibility which I believe has not been used in around 70 years it is not the sanctioned teaching. He has never used it to proclaim there is a hell. People will preach it as a fact but it is not so under the Catholic Church.

People remain clueless because they only learn from their friends. Yes there are those who actually studied the religion and other religions. These are the people who know. Not the ones who were told this is what you say.

..

I don't think you are quite right here about Catholicism and its beliefs.

The diagnostic feature of the Catholic church is that its authority is centralised, because it believes it that it has a direct link to God, and that link is the Pope, who therefore is the intermediary between God and all Catholics. Since the Pope runs the Church at God's behest, when the Pope is talking about doctrine, matters of faith, he is "infallible", as you say. This applies to all Popes retrospectively, so previous doctrinal statements going back through history are also infallible. The current Pope does not have to have made any statements about the reality of Hell for it to be part of Catholic doctrine.

Because the Church is centralised, it has actually formulated its beliefs as a written doctrinal document called the Catechism of the Catholic Church. This is issued by the Vatican as a definitive guide to what Catholics must believe; it is used to teach the faith world-wide. It can't be argued that these beliefs are optional, or vary with geography. The whole point of having an authoritarian Church run by one doctrinally infallible person is to eliminate this possibility. That's why they set it up like that in the first place.

Here's what the catechism on the Vatican's own website says Catholics everywhere must believe about Hell:

IV. Hell

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."

Source: http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P2O.HTM

Edited October 8, 2013 by partington

[northernjohn]

I think, Thai religious by the people is mainly traditional, not inside. I have had a girl friend who knows all prayers to answer the monk in ceremonies. She stayed two years in temple, but she doesn't know anythink about the inner process of Buddhas teaching. She gives gifts to monks often. I think there are more superstition than believing in Buddha.

The society is materialistic like by us and the smile from inside you can find more in Myanmar, not here.

I am a very, very desilunsionistic person about what kind of importance Buddhisme is in Thailand.

It is maybe a consequence of better circumstances in life to lose religion.

But I am thinking, that the inner problems grew with materialistic prosperity more and more. To lie is in Thailand normal. To lie is not possible in this religion, also not to kill animal? The Thai do all this.

The most of all people in the world are more all less schizophrenic.

I find a lot in what you say. It would appear that the more materialistic society becomes the farther they drift away from the teachings of Buddha. The one thing You may be right on or not is the Burmese Buddhism We drove through to the Chinese border and such sadness I had never seen. I do believe true Buddhism would not show so much sadness. On the other hand when in Cambodia I saw as much poverty but far less sadness so who is to say.

I would ask people who studied Buddhism and say they have it wrong here or there. Are they as poorly educated as the average Thai Burmese or Cambodian.

My knowledge of the history of Buddhism is very little but I would ask did Buddha work in the fields for his day to day physical life? How much of his wealth did he take with him? or was he taken care of because the people knew him to be of royal blood.

I do not know what all it gives them but I do know that it does teach them a bit of respect. Many of them leave it in the temple how ever but not all.

[rgs2001uk]

"I was an atheist for a while but I gave it up. No holidays!" --Jackie Mason

There seems to be a trend these last few years for professing atheists to be more aggressive in championing their point of view, and ridiculing those who believe in any sort of "non-scientific" religious doctrine. This is just as unattractive as the evangelists who push their various programs.

To each his own.

The only difference being that the Atheists are actually right. And considering how the religious seem to be forcing their doctrines on others, schools and the state it is becoming necessary to repel these mythical idiots with more vocal means.

So am I to understand you that because you do not hold the beliefs I do you whould shove them down my throat. At least people with religious beliefs have a hope. You have nothing.

I see atheism as nothing more than a different set of beliefs. Possibly become Islamic like with there my way or the high way. At least Christianity has out grown that part of it's childish life.

I have no problems with atheist as long as they hold it to them selves I know three One was in a fox hole and never prayed the other was in a life boat in the second WW and admits he prayed the third never was in a fox hole and I find him very interesting to talk with but he is not trying to sell me his beliefs just explain them.

We all have views and some such as your self speak with a closed mind others with as closed a mind as yours on the other end of the discussion and most of us some where in between. I think there is a great number of agnostics who don't run around pushing their doubts.

What gets me is the close minded atheist. There belief is that Science has all the answers and in fact science is still learning new questions and ways of researching old questions. The atheist base there feet firmly in mid air. Absolutely no proof one way or the other.

Edit

Maybe there is no God if there was one why would he make such as lousey speller out of me.

What gets me is the close minded atheist. There belief is that Science has all the answers

As an open minded free thinking atheist I am more than happy to answer and rewrite the above.

What gets me is the close minded believer. Their belief that their system of dogma has all the answers, and woe betide you if you dare to question the belief system that is rammed down your throat but doesnt stand up to scrutiny.

Flat Earthers being a prime example.

Thank goodness Marin Luther led us out of the dark ages and into the age of enlightenment.

As an open minded atheist my mind is open to new thoughts and ideas, not closed to anything that has appeared in the last 2000 years, because some so called wise(?) holy man dicatates.

[sirineou]

Snake, I was dating a Singaporean girl for quite a while when I was working there. Her Mother was extremely catholic. I felt so sorry for her as her Husband had divorced her the catholic church had her convinced she was going to hell.

That poor woman had no life, no friends, no future. All because some bloke in a white sheet had her convinced that an imaginary being has condemned her to hellfire and damnation.

Stick your religion where the sun don't shine pal.

Isn't Funny ? there are certain sins that will land you in hell, then later on as the church reforms these sins are not longer sins punishable with eternal damnation. For instance, eating a certain food on Friday will land you in hell, then later on eating the same food on Friday is now Ok

So I wonder, what happens to all the people that ate the certain food on Friday and went to hell? will they now be released? Perhaps with a "Sorry dude by bad"

Oh and an other thing, in an other religion when you go to heaven you will have a certain number of virgins,

ok so after a few times non of them would be a virgin, what do you do then? Would heaven become hell when they all start nagging you?

and Ok it is heaven for you because of the virgins but how about the virgins that have to put up with you? what is it to them?

Can heaven be hell for some people?and vice versa

To be fair, although I too do not subscribe to the specific elements of belief you mention, science has gone through similar transformations in the same time period.

But science does not threaten any one with eternal damnation and or physical harm in this life for being wrong, or for ascribing to a particular theory

We delight in being found wrong, that's how Science moves forward, that's how we advance , that's how we got from the wheel to the Space Shuttle

Any way my above statements we only a poor attempt at humor,

Here is a clip from my Favorite comedian Jim Jefferies, "God goes to a Party"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEGQ42RFfhg

Sorry dont seem to be able to attach the Youtube video, if some one can tell me how to do it I would appreciate it,

Above is a link to it, VERY FUNNY

Edited October 8, 2013 by sirineou

[jaapfries]

Buddhism in Thailand is predominately about superstition and money just like the Church in the West.

I disagree. In my opinion, Buddhism has been commercialised like most other religions. The aversion most people describe is not against Buddhism, but against the financial interests that take advantage of religion.

But that doesn't have anything to do with Buddhism.

@Forethat: I believe the little phrase at the bottom of your post sums it up pretty well:

"I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you..."

[Kananga]

"I was an atheist for a while but I gave it up. No holidays!" --Jackie Mason

There seems to be a trend these last few years for professing atheists to be more aggressive in championing their point of view, and ridiculing those who believe in any sort of "non-scientific" religious doctrine. This is just as unattractive as the evangelists who push their various programs.

To each his own.

The only difference being that the Atheists are actually right. And considering how the religious seem to be forcing their doctrines on others, schools and the state it is becoming necessary to repel these mythical idiots with more vocal means.

So am I to understand you that because you do not hold the beliefs I do you whould shove them down my throat. At least people with religious beliefs have a hope. You have nothing.

I see atheism as nothing more than a different set of beliefs. Possibly become Islamic like with there my way or the high way. At least Christianity has out grown that part of it's childish life.

I have no problems with atheist as long as they hold it to them selves I know three One was in a fox hole and never prayed the other was in a life boat in the second WW and admits he prayed the third never was in a fox hole and I find him very interesting to talk with but he is not trying to sell me his beliefs just explain them.

We all have views and some such as your self speak with a closed mind others with as closed a mind as yours on the other end of the discussion and most of us some where in between. I think there is a great number of agnostics who don't run around pushing their doubts.

What gets me is the close minded atheist. There belief is that Science has all the answers and in fact science is still learning new questions and ways of researching old questions. The atheist base there feet firmly in mid air. Absolutely no proof one way or the other.

Edit

Maybe there is no God if there was one why would he make such as lousey speller out of me.

No, you misunderstood me. The rest of your post is therefore pointless as you went off on a tangent.

Seems like you don't understand what atheism is. It is the lack of belief in gods. Not a different set of beliefs but a lack of belief in supernatural skydaddies for which there is no physical evidence to prove actually exist. Therefore there is no such thing as a close-minded atheist. Perhaps you were attempting to say what gets you are people that only believe things that can be proven by science and not people who take things on faith just because they were written in a book that contains mostly contradictory content the majority of which has now been disproven by Science. How did Noah get the penguins on the Ark with the Lions? How did Moses part the seas? I mean really. You think that crap actually happened?

I dont want religion taught in school any more than I would want any other fiction taught in school as fact. If religious people are going to push their own beliefs on the rest of us. (and you notice that it is referred to as their beliefs, because it is merely what they believe, not what can actually be proven) then those of us with open enough minds to see that religion is just a crock of mass controlling fiction will tell them where to get off.

[Tatsujin]

. . . doesn't that awaken your own curiousity on your own religion which would i suppose be christinaity

No. I'm not interested as (for me) all religions are a waste of time. If others want to follow some made up rubbish that's up to them.

[GuestHouse]

And of course Science is not a belief system founded on fundemental truths... which are infact constructs... AKA articles of faith.

Edited October 8, 2013 by GuestHouse

[Kananga]

And of course Science is not a belief system founded on fundemental truths.

I have no idea if you are being sarcastic or not, but you don't find scientists looking for answers by growing ringlocks and shouting at a wall as they rock back and forth like deranged Scotsmen for example.

Thats one thing that religion does bring, amusement to the rest of us watching them act like clowns.

[pgrahmm]

I'm caught right in the middle of this debate....after some years here in LOS I went to the US, found and married a lovely Filapina - really couldn't ask for anything more in a wife......UNTIL.....we moved to Thailand and all the easy going charm that I had come to love in Thailand evaporated in the difference of Catholic comdemnations which is one of the roots of the church - our way or condemned.....I doubled up this mistake by taking her to the Catholic church where she met the local Fil's community - now she has no desire to mix with anyone else but them (while before wanted to mingle with more Thai's)while I on the other hand am dying to get reconnected with the Thai people and their ways which seem to flow a lot easier within me.....somethings going to have to give.....I didn't move here just to sit inside a house I can do that anywhere.....I'm use to participating in a variety of sports and activities and sitting still/not mixing/not LIVING/exploring does not agree with me.....

Yes - religions do influence many many people and they become entrenched and unbending. I find the approach here much more workable.

Interesting to note. A friend of mine is a liaison assisting veterans processing claims for problems incurred while serving in the armed forces. While speaking with him he opened up to me the disproportionately huge amount of claims for mental services/problems was dominated by men that were raised as Catholics. He was raised Catholic as were a lot of my friends (most are no longer). He's going to research just to see what he can learn.....

So - yes a great many things can take place.....I would have to say I believe that.....

In seeing some of the simple beliefs and respect of the people at the temples it gives me a deeper respect for the worshipers that I see there.....I always feel a little bit better after seeing that

Edited October 8, 2013 by pgrahmm

[farang000999]

Thais aren't even Buddhists. They are mostly interested in spirits and the afterlife. Big shocker.

You can talk all you want of the merits of actual Buddhism, in reality they have about as much to do with Thailand as they do with the West.

[GuestHouse]

And of course Science is not a belief system founded on fundemental truths.

I have no idea if you are being sarcastic or not, but you don't find scientists looking for answers by growing ringlocks and shouting at a wall as they rock back and forth like deranged Scotsmen for example.

Thats one thing that religion does bring, amusement to the rest of us watching them act like clowns.

I am being sarcastic and have eddited my post to make it abundently clear for you.

But as you demonstrate nicely, both the religeous and the athiest camps have their zelots.

[farang000999]

Thais would make absolutely amazing Catholics. They really nail the last minute (paid) penances and Madonna-Whore complex, not to mention the massive corruption, hypocrisy and ring kissing.

[Kananga]

And of course Science is not a belief system founded on fundemental truths.

I have no idea if you are being sarcastic or not, but you don't find scientists looking for answers by growing ringlocks and shouting at a wall as they rock back and forth like deranged Scotsmen for example.

Thats one thing that religion does bring, amusement to the rest of us watching them act like clowns.

I am being sarcastic and have eddited my post to make it abundently clear for you.

But as you demonstrate nicely, both the religeous and the athiest camps have their zelots.

Eddited? LOL. Oh the irony.

[willyumiii]

The only reason people in the West, are less religious now - are because of a increasing level of education.

Give the Thai's a better education, and they will call the BS.

What's BS about treating other people with respect?

What's BS about minding your speech?

What's BS about not killing other living beings?

Buddhism can teach most of us a lot of things that would probably help us live a better life. I can't actually see ONE thing about that I can call BS.

Though not part of Buddhism, certainly part of Thai religion and culture

I would call ghosts and spirits BS, what do you call it?

The ghosts and spirits are not part of Buddhism. They stem from animism and Brahmanism both very prevalent In Thailand .

That is what all of the Spirit houses are about!

Unlike Catholicism, Buddhism has no problem with you believing in other theologies as well.

I was raised in an Irish catholic family. At my Thai wedding a monk asked me if I was a Buddhist.

I told him that probably would be if I was not a Catholic.

He replies " You can be a Buddhist and a Christian at the same time. Christians try to be good people too!"

That's when I started seriously studying Buddhism.

[Baerboxer]

Other than being able to spout a whole bunch of mythological claptrap that got attached to Buddhism. Most Thais couldn't speak for 5 minutes on what the Buddha taught. And a shocking number of monks as well.

Have you actually carried out a survey of Thai nationals or Buddhist monks to substantiate your rhetoric? If so can you please share the details with us.

If not then its your opinion only, which of course you're perfectly entitled to express. However, its an opinion based on your worldview rather than facts. Quite a difference.

[Baerboxer]

And of course Science is not a belief system founded on fundemental truths.

I have no idea if you are being sarcastic or not, but you don't find scientists looking for answers by growing ringlocks and shouting at a wall as they rock back and forth like deranged Scotsmen for example.

Thats one thing that religion does bring, amusement to the rest of us watching them act like clowns.

I am being sarcastic and have eddited my post to make it abundently clear for you.

But as you demonstrate nicely, both the religeous and the athiest camps have their zelots.

Eddited? LOL. Oh the irony.

Why would someone compare orthodox Jews praying at the wailing wall, in a manner that they consider traditional, with the imagined behaviour of deranged Scotsmen?

Antisemitic, anti-Scots and derogatory opinion of people suffering from mental health issues ?

Of course, no one should challenge your untold wisdom and clever comment?

Scientists have made some wonderful discoveries that have benefited mankind. They've also made some right cock ups.

Irony - a great many scientists have been and are Jewish. And, they practice their religion. Most Scots I know aren't deranged and have a great deal of respect for people regardless of race and religion.

I know a lot of medical doctors and scientists and a considerable number hold religious believes - be it Christian, Islam, Hindu or Bhuddist.

[Forethat]

Do you really need a religion for being a decent human being? I don't need/want anyone to tell me what is good or bad because it is plain clear, just put respect in front of everything, dont do things you wouldn't like others do to you and try to help every time you can. Easy right?

That pretty much sums up the Buddhist philosophy, glad to see you agree. Remember Buddhism doesn't tell you to do this and that, it's UP TO YOU (with the small remark that you'll be a happier person if you manage to figure out what life is about)

Religions are the cancer of the world.

I disagree. Religion has evolved from an emotional need. Is it so bad that people seek comfort, let be from a supreme being?

The big problem, in my opinion, is the masses of people who are doing exact the OPPOSITE to what every religion prescribes. To be honest, my initial reaction is that the world is well rid of them, but that's a thought that borders their exact behaviour, which is exactly what I detest.

Edited October 8, 2013 by Forethat

[Kananga]

I have no idea if you are being sarcastic or not, but you don't find scientists looking for answers by growing ringlocks and shouting at a wall as they rock back and forth like deranged Scotsmen for example.

Thats one thing that religion does bring, amusement to the rest of us watching them act like clowns.

I am being sarcastic and have eddited my post to make it abundently clear for you.

But as you demonstrate nicely, both the religeous and the athiest camps have their zelots.

Eddited? LOL. Oh the irony.

Why would someone compare orthodox Jews praying at the wailing wall, in a manner that they consider traditional, with the imagined behaviour of deranged Scotsmen?

Antisemitic, anti-Scots and derogatory opinion of people suffering from mental health issues ?

Of course, no one should challenge your untold wisdom and clever comment?

Scientists have made some wonderful discoveries that have benefited mankind. They've also made some right cock ups.

Irony - a great many scientists have been and are Jewish. And, they practice their religion. Most Scots I know aren't deranged and have a great deal of respect for people regardless of race and religion.

I know a lot of medical doctors and scientists and a considerable number hold religious believes - be it Christian, Islam, Hindu or Bhuddist.

When Science gets something wrong, Science admits it and then seeks to find out why it was wrong. Stark contrast to religion covering up for child fiddling priests or stoning raped women.

[ChatterRat]

In direct response to the Ops question which was

“don't you think how thai ppl being religious has sort of awakened your curiousity about religion?”

in a way my answer to this is yes, but not in a positive way toward religion, in fact the opposite.

This is because I am an atheist yet my children are being raised surrounded by strong influences of religion, and I as a responsible father I see it as my duty to ensure that my daughter and son receive a balanced view. Hence they attend temples with their Buddhist believing mother, they learn about Buddhism and a little about western religion at the Catholic school they attend, and at appropriate moments I chip in with occasional comments about the bad habits (pun intended) and the evil side of religions. The recent shenanigans of a dodgy monk which was all over the Thai media for weeks was a god send (yes another pun intended). Thank you Sexy Somchai, which is my name for the errant monk. My daughter is old enough and curious enough to ask me why I don't believe which has spurred on my quest to find appropriate answers suitable for her current age and intellectual maturity. I will point her in the direction of Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris and the excellent Christopher Hitchens when I think she is ready. My little boy is more interested in sponge bob at the moment so he'll have to wait.

One positive religious factor that I have noted in my time in Thailand is that it has made me acknowledge how religion in a small community village can act of a centre for social interactions, which is particularly useful for the elder members of the communities and reduces the loneliness and sense of isolation which appears to be ever growing in the west. My beef is with some of the people who lead these religious communities, who see the sheeple as a flock to be fleeced.

To those that argue that Buddhism is a philosophy and not a religion, whatever the original intentions may or may not have been, I see little difference between religion as practised in western churches and that practised here,

ie the west: pray for some reward and the magic man will fix it for you, now place your donation on this silver plate.

The east: chant for some reward and the magic man will fix it for you, now place your donation in this envelope, and how about also buying some josh sticks, gold plate, etc, etc.

Bless you all, and may your god go with you.

ChatterRat.

[Baerboxer]

"I was an atheist for a while but I gave it up. No holidays!" --Jackie Mason

There seems to be a trend these last few years for professing atheists to be more aggressive in championing their point of view, and ridiculing those who believe in any sort of "non-scientific" religious doctrine. This is just as unattractive as the evangelists who push their various programs.

To each his own.

The only difference being that the Atheists are actually right. And considering how the religious seem to be forcing their doctrines on others, schools and the state it is becoming necessary to repel these mythical idiots with more vocal means.

Wow - someone who has proof that all religions are hokus pokus, that mankind aren't spiritual beings and that atheists know best. Amazingly he/she also condones suppression of freedom to religious views, as the communists, facists, nazis and other dictators tried.

Of course adding a few insults and buzz words makes the comment "trendy" and almost seem pseudo intellectual.

You are free to express your opinions, But, that's all they are. Not fact, or supported by facts or tempered with tolerance.

[Baerboxer]

I have no idea if you are being sarcastic or not, but you don't find scientists looking for answers by growing ringlocks and shouting at a wall as they rock back and forth like deranged Scotsmen for example.

Thats one thing that religion does bring, amusement to the rest of us watching them act like clowns.

I am being sarcastic and have eddited my post to make it abundently clear for you.

But as you demonstrate nicely, both the religeous and the athiest camps have their zelots.

Eddited? LOL. Oh the irony.

Why would someone compare orthodox Jews praying at the wailing wall, in a manner that they consider traditional, with the imagined behaviour of deranged Scotsmen?

Antisemitic, anti-Scots and derogatory opinion of people suffering from mental health issues ?

Of course, no one should challenge your untold wisdom and clever comment?

Scientists have made some wonderful discoveries that have benefited mankind. They've also made some right cock ups.

Irony - a great many scientists have been and are Jewish. And, they practice their religion. Most Scots I know aren't deranged and have a great deal of respect for people regardless of race and religion.

I know a lot of medical doctors and scientists and a considerable number hold religious believes - be it Christian, Islam, Hindu or Bhuddist.

When Science gets something wrong, Science admits it and then seeks to find out why it was wrong. Stark contrast to religion covering up for child fiddling priests or stoning raped women.

Agree there. Certain religions or at least parts of them have been hijacked by corrupt maniacs out for their own agendas. The Catholic church as a history of perversion, corruption and secrecy, which it maintains. Some countries that claim to be Islamic are barbaric and have been completely fooled by manipulative zealots. The Hindu caste system had noble intents until man corrupted it to the disgrace it is. So much evil has been perpetrated in the name of one religion or another.

Religion is like politics - get's corrupted by men and women.

[DMC1]

"I was an atheist for a while but I gave it up. No holidays!" --Jackie Mason

There seems to be a trend these last few years for professing atheists to be more aggressive in championing their point of view, and ridiculing those who believe in any sort of "non-scientific" religious doctrine. This is just as unattractive as the evangelists who push their various programs.

To each his own.

The only difference being that the Atheists are actually right. And considering how the religious seem to be forcing their doctrines on others, schools and the state it is becoming necessary to repel these mythical idiots with more vocal means.

So am I to understand you that because you do not hold the beliefs I do you whould shove them down my throat. At least people with religious beliefs have a hope. You have nothing.

I see atheism as nothing more than a different set of beliefs. Possibly become Islamic like with there my way or the high way. At least Christianity has out grown that part of it's childish life.

I have no problems with atheist as long as they hold it to them selves I know three One was in a fox hole and never prayed the other was in a life boat in the second WW and admits he prayed the third never was in a fox hole and I find him very interesting to talk with but he is not trying to sell me his beliefs just explain them.

We all have views and some such as your self speak with a closed mind others with as closed a mind as yours on the other end of the discussion and most of us some where in between. I think there is a great number of agnostics who don't run around pushing their doubts.

What gets me is the close minded atheist. There belief is that Science has all the answers and in fact science is still learning new questions and ways of researching old questions. The atheist base there feet firmly in mid air. Absolutely no proof one way or the other.

Edit

Maybe there is no God if there was one why would he make such as lousey speller out of me.

What gets me is the close minded atheist. There belief is that Science has all the answers

As an open minded free thinking atheist I am more than happy to answer and rewrite the above.

What gets me is the close minded believer. Their belief that their system of dogma has all the answers, and woe betide you if you dare to question the belief system that is rammed down your throat but doesnt stand up to scrutiny.

Flat Earthers being a prime example.

Thank goodness Marin Luther led us out of the dark ages and into the age of enlightenment.

As an open minded atheist my mind is open to new thoughts and ideas, not closed to anything that has appeared in the last 2000 years, because some so called wise(?) holy man dicatates.

+1 How can any 'faith' based religion call themselves open minded? It's completely ridiculous to not question anything without evidence.

[Kananga]

"I was an atheist for a while but I gave it up. No holidays!" --Jackie Mason

There seems to be a trend these last few years for professing atheists to be more aggressive in championing their point of view, and ridiculing those who believe in any sort of "non-scientific" religious doctrine. This is just as unattractive as the evangelists who push their various programs.

To each his own.

The only difference being that the Atheists are actually right. And considering how the religious seem to be forcing their doctrines on others, schools and the state it is becoming necessary to repel these mythical idiots with more vocal means.

Wow - someone who has proof that all religions are hokus pokus, that mankind aren't spiritual beings and that atheists know best. Amazingly he/she also condones suppression of freedom to religious views, as the communists, facists, nazis and other dictators tried.

Of course adding a few insults and buzz words makes the comment "trendy" and almost seem pseudo intellectual.

You are free to express your opinions, But, that's all they are. Not fact, or supported by facts or tempered with tolerance.

Its not up to me to prove all religions are hocus pocus. Its up to the religious to prove they are not. Which they can't do. And lets face it, as some religions contradict each other they are already doing a good job at that themselves. They can't disagree with each other and all be right.

he/she also condones suppression of freedom to religious views, as the communists, facists, nazis and other dictators tried.

You forgot to include 'religious people' in your list. No one has suppressed the freedom to religious views than those who view other religions.

And for the record I am not suppression of the right to freedom of expressing views, just not to attempt to indoctrinate children in schools paid for with my taxes. I also reserve the right to ridicule any religious belief because lets face it they are all ridiculous. Or are you attempting to suppress my freedom to do that?

So lets sum up the dismantling of your reply.

FIrst, its up to religious people to prove their religion exists, not for me to prove it doesnt.

Secondly, suppression of freedom to religious views has been undertaken by other religious people in far greater excess and more violently than any other group.

Thirdly, Believing in things that cannot be proven and contradict scientific fact should be open to ridicule as you seem to believe that people should be entitled to freedom of their views, regardless of how objectionable other people find them.

[Kananga]

Why would someone compare orthodox Jews praying at the wailing wall, in a manner that they consider traditional, with the imagined behaviour of deranged Scotsmen?

Antisemitic, anti-Scots and derogatory opinion of people suffering from mental health issues ?

Of course, no one should challenge your untold wisdom and clever comment?

Scientists have made some wonderful discoveries that have benefited mankind. They've also made some right cock ups.

Irony - a great many scientists have been and are Jewish. And, they practice their religion. Most Scots I know aren't deranged and have a great deal of respect for people regardless of race and religion.

I know a lot of medical doctors and scientists and a considerable number hold religious believes - be it Christian, Islam, Hindu or Bhuddist.

When Science gets something wrong, Science admits it and then seeks to find out why it was wrong. Stark contrast to religion covering up for child fiddling priests or stoning raped women.

Agree there. Certain religions or at least parts of them have been hijacked by corrupt maniacs out for their own agendas. The Catholic church as a history of perversion, corruption and secrecy, which it maintains. Some countries that claim to be Islamic are barbaric and have been completely fooled by manipulative zealots. The Hindu caste system had noble intents until man corrupted it to the disgrace it is. So much evil has been perpetrated in the name of one religion or another.

Religion is like politics - get's corrupted by men and women.

Religion is like politics - It was invented by men and women.

[tingtong]

Here's the sickening double standards that i bet some western ppl have. Islamic religious ppl will kill for their religion. Respect islam.

Religious ppl wont kill....Religious FANATICs kill. If you think that is islam, killing in the name of religion, then you respect the wrong islam!