luudee Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 Howdy all ! recently I had a new septic tanks installed. It has now collapsed. Upon some investigation and reviewing my pictures of the work, I am convinced the subcontractor (a farang) did the installation incorrectly. Of course he refuses to re-install one at his own cost. So, do any of you have any experience with the legal system here ? I read about a new fast-track court haven been setup in Pattaya to help farangs. Any constructive feedback appreciated ! Thanks, luudee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UncleJ Posted October 9, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2013 Next you will meet the incompetent attorney. Good luck. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackman Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 its only a matter of time before someone suggests falang builder /work permit? it might as well be me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD13 Posted October 9, 2013 Share Posted October 9, 2013 I would hazard a guess that you may have more luck pursuing a "Farang" than a Thai, as he has more to lose.....(visa-wise) (not to mention work permit) In the past when I had difficulties with aThai so called business man, and spoke to my lawyer about it....... his answer was.... " you 'can' take him to court, and you may win, but are you prepared to wait 10 years for your money.....which sadly to a certain extent made sense....... And of course, do you want to be looking over your shoulder for the next for ever "how long" ? I hope that it works out well for you.........and you get the rogue to rectify his bad workmanship......good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pattaya28 Posted October 9, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2013 My experience in Thailand is there is never any come-back on anything. And if you were to pursue, you'd be throwing good money after bad. Swallow it and go forward. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 And of course, do you want to be looking over your shoulder for the next for ever "how long" ? Looking over the shoulder of the contractor when he does his work is the best option. Once you've paid, that's it.... kiss it goodbye. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ezzra Posted October 10, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted October 10, 2013 Take it from someone who has been dealing with local, as well as farang contactors and anything in between, Try to reason with the man, if that fail, don't go the running to a lawyer, that will cost you many time more of the cost to re install and re do the work, and in the end, can take years to resolve, and you will not see any money, So chalk it to experience, and in the future have a work contact drawn that stipulate his work scope and responsibilities to the finished product and hold back some of the money to be paid upon completions and satisfactions of work/job done. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
besth Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 You may try the Consumer Protection Center at Pattaya City Hall. It is all a matter of how much money the repair will cost vs how much time you are prepared to dedicate to the issue (or if it is all a matter of principle, of course). Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD13 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Take it from someone who has been dealing with local, as well as farang contactors and anything in between, Try to reason with the man, if that fail, don't go the running to a lawyer, that will cost you many time more of the cost to re install and re do the work, and in the end, can take years to resolve, and you will not see any money, So chalk it to experience, and in the future have a work contact drawn that stipulate his work scope and responsibilities to the finished product and hold back some of the money to be paid upon completions and satisfactions of work/job done. I agree with you ...... If, "whoever it is, Thais or Farang" are reluctant to sign a contract......it's a case of "buyer beware".......they are obviously not confident in their finished product..... It doesn't just happen here.....as we know, there are "cowboy" builders in our own countries.......... Sorry to our American friends for the cowboy reference..............that is a well known UK term to explain rogue builders..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farang Paul Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 It would be interesting to see how a Thai court deals with a Farang vs Farang case. Sadly it would take forever and cost a lot to find out. I won a case in Krabi court against a Thai builder. It took months and cost me 20k in lawyers fees. When the judge gave his final summing -up he awarded me the sum in dispute, refused my costs, then deducted the costs of the builder who was at fault. I was told by my advisor to shut up and just be happy I had won; the incorrect allocation of costs was so that Thailand saved face ( you work that one out!). Personally I would try a different tactic. A Farang subcontractor working here in Thailand almost certainly has some weakness in his set-up. (work permit for him, work permits for his labour, company set-up, taxes paid - the list of potential pitfalls is endless) I would suggest a quiet aside to the contractor about how inconvenient for him it would be should someone inform the local government that he was operating illegally. If he has something to hide, this should make him more amenable, if he doesn't, it will be most inconvenient for him to be investigated. Don't, however, consider this course of action unless everything on your side is in perfect order. If it is not then walk away. Good luck - let us know how you get on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post cup-O-coffee Posted October 10, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted October 10, 2013 I never let anyone here do anything until I have researched it and know what to expect, or at least have a fairly good idea at every stage, or I simply do it myself. Installing septic tanks and the physics and materials behind them are not too hard to get a handy grasp of. I feel kind of embarrassed for you. Don't feel bad, though. I have <deleted>$cked the dog myself by being too trusting of what seemed a trustworthy issue here in Thailand. That is why I now resort to the first bit of wisdom I mentioned above. Just suck it up and do it again, after you research. Good luck. As an afterthought, it might be an interesting idea to have someone outside of Thailand start a website where people can post business information and rate businesses in Thailand, so as to avoid being badgered and harassed by angry Thais when the truth hits. The website would operate like a Better Business Bureau and have ratings based on user experience. I always thought this would create a bit more transparency for people to do a better job for what they are being paid. I would certainly go to someone who had a good rating. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spidermike007 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Take it from someone who has been dealing with local, as well as farang contactors and anything in between, Try to reason with the man, if that fail, don't go the running to a lawyer, that will cost you many time more of the cost to re install and re do the work, and in the end, can take years to resolve, and you will not see any money, So chalk it to experience, and in the future have a work contact drawn that stipulate his work scope and responsibilities to the finished product and hold back some of the money to be paid upon completions and satisfactions of work/job done. Good advice. Only seek out the help of an attorney when you are looking at a loss well into the millions of baht. Throwing 100,000 baht at an attorney is not going to help you much here. One of the most effective ways I have found of dealing with people like this (especially since he is a fareng and will understand) is to threaten to use PR to destroy his reputation. You can mention that you are proficient at social media, etc, and you can then launch a campaign on facebook, twitter, writing letters to the newspapers, posting flyers around town, etc. Some would be afraid of this kind of tactic, which may be your only effective course of action, at this point. You may at least get some compensation from him. But, an attorney, and the Thai courts? A poor choice of expenditure of your cash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoshowJones Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 its only a matter of time before someone suggests falang builder /work permit? it might as well be me... The guy being a Farang, tell him he either fixes it, or he will have you to deal with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Jarse Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Take it from someone who has been dealing with local, as well as farang contactors and anything in between, Try to reason with the man, if that fail, don't go the running to a lawyer, that will cost you many time more of the cost to re install and re do the work, and in the end, can take years to resolve, and you will not see any money, So chalk it to experience, and in the future have a work contact drawn that stipulate his work scope and responsibilities to the finished product and hold back some of the money to be paid upon completions and satisfactions of work/job done. An alternative option is to offer a cash incentive for him to return and do the job properly. Then either dont pay him or pay him less than what was agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuban Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Your starting point will be the wording of the contract that you have - if that was verbal you know how much chance you have of anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ripper15 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 @ spidermike007 I can see the utility of such a site but I can also see some Thai's suing you for defamation for putting a negative review of them or their company on the web, Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemoncake Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 (edited) My experience in Thailand is there is never any come-back on anything. And if you were to pursue, you'd be throwing good money after bad. Swallow it and go forward. Not necessary true. There is a FREE option of consumer protection board. It does take time, but it is FREE and possibly positive result can be achieved. OP, contact City Hall for legal department, make an appointment and lodge the complaint. Contractor being foreigner may well be a "good" factor to speed it up. Here is the site for consumer protection board http://www.ocpb.go.th/main.php?filename=031056 Edited October 10, 2013 by lemoncake 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luudee Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Thanks for all the feedback guys ! A couple of additional points: 1) I do have a written contract with this guy. I learned that already ! 2) I did watch the guys doing the installation. But I am clueless when it comes to construction and plumbing. This guy is obviously not a "nice" person, but I also don't like to play dirty and send immigration and whatever after him. I don't want to go to that level over about 100k baht. What I was really hoping for is that somebody might have had any experience with this new fast-track court they set up. It is clear to me that spending lots of money on attorneys, etc, is a waste of time and money. Again, thanks for all pointers, I'll post update if and how I proceed. luudee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luudee Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 My experience in Thailand is there is never any come-back on anything. And if you were to pursue, you'd be throwing good money after bad. Swallow it and go forward. Not necessary true. There is a FREE option of consumer protection board. It does take time, but it is FREE and possibly positive result can be achieved. OP, contact City Hall for legal department, make an appointment and lodge the complaint. Contractor being foreigner may well be a "good" factor to speed it up. Here is the site for consumer protection board http://www.ocpb.go.th/main.php?filename=031056 Yes, I will follow up with City Hall and try to file a complaint. Thank you ! luudee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrain Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Office of the consumer protection board OCPB First floor on the right of Pattaya city hall, Mr Thammanoon. Does an excellent job in these kind of issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lemoncake Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 This guy is obviously not a "nice" person, but I also don't like to play dirty and send immigration and whatever after him. I don't want to go to that level over about 100k baht. A gentleman and honorable way of thinking. If you do file a complaint, the Board or City Hall will follow up on all the maters including visa, WP and license, but it is only his own fault for refusing to compromise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luudee Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 I've just sent this guy another email, asking to fix. I don't know if he is reading this or not, but to be honest, I would be happy if he would pinch in 50% of the cost to fix it. If not, I will follow up with city hall, and check out the fast track court ... Again thanks for all suggestions guys !!! luudee 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halion Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Take it from someone who has been dealing with local, as well as farang contactors and anything in between, Try to reason with the man, if that fail, don't go the running to a lawyer, that will cost you many time more of the cost to re install and re do the work, and in the end, can take years to resolve, and you will not see any money, So chalk it to experience, and in the future have a work contact drawn that stipulate his work scope and responsibilities to the finished product and hold back some of the money to be paid upon completions and satisfactions of work/job done. Sound, practical and sensible advice. Lawyers and litigation are far removed from problem resolution in this country. Stage payments are a very good control mechanism against faulty workmanship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capt_canada42 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Take the man to arbitration it costs nothing, it is immediate no years waiting, all you do is go to the court house and fill out the papers they will serve him ... ask for an arbitrator who speaks english ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DD13 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I've just sent this guy another email, asking to fix. I don't know if he is reading this or not, but to be honest, I would be happy if he would pinch in 50% of the cost to fix it. If not, I will follow up with city hall, and check out the fast track court ... Again thanks for all suggestions guys !!! luudee My Thai gf has told me many times.....in Thailand...."kindness" is seen as a "weakness" Something that many of the "Chancers" throughout the world also live by.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 A post suggestion an illegal solution has been removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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