Failing Businesses

[Arkady]

Yes, so? There were big C stores, and the existing Carrefour stores were rebranded Big C. So now there are more Big C stores than before.

The biggest one I can think of was Carrefour in Jungceylon. I used to shop there. It was always reasonably busy.

I don't think it failed, but it must have been losing money, or had very high expenses.

They not only pulled out of Phuket, but I think out of Thailand in general.

Carrefour was rebranded into Big C. Same owner, so not much has changed.

It does mention they were "rebranded" after acquisition. Just wondering why Carrefour sold out to them? Unless, it was an offer they couldn't refuse.

Carrefour took a strategic decision to exit from markets such as Thailand and Malaysia in SE Asia where they had failed to achieve their target market share as a result of trying to be too up market before the customer base was ready to support that approach. They decided to put focus their efforts in markets Europe where their approach is working well, rather than attempt to go downmarket to compete head on with Tesco and Big C. Actually from my observation they did try to go downmarket and many of the expensive imported French delicacies disappeared but it wasn't very successful, so they gave up. They may have been 10-20 years ahead of their time and it was an astonishingly naive attempt relying on wishful thinking more than detailed market research.

Actually all 3, Tesco, Big C and Carrefour appeared at about the same in the mid 90s with Thai jv partners. After the 1997 economic collapse the Thai partners had all over extended themselves through US dollar borrowing that they had trouble repaying after the baht devalued. In order to save the businesses and allow the foreign owners to inject more capital the government had to pass the Retail Act that allowed foreigners to own 100% of retail businesses over a certain size, despite severe resistance from Thai business owners,

[nedkellylives]

With any busines it relies on the right business in the right area, which requires research and enough money and lots

of work hours to make it a successful business, and this applies to any sort of business

Unfortunately in Thailand you have to employ Thai people to do a lot of things you would be better of doing yourself

[LivinginKata]

^

Exactly correct. Carrefour did not fail. They sold their Thailand stores in order to concentrate in Europe. Just a business strategy. BigC just bought up the Carrefour stores.

[LivinginKata]

Wasn't there an Aussie guy with a big red jet boat in Chalong?

Where did that go?

What about the guy who tried to market the 'Party Boat'. Not sure that business even got started.

[stevenl]

Wasn't there an Aussie guy with a big red jet boat in Chalong?

Where did that go?

What about the guy who tried to market the 'Party Boat'. Not sure that business even got started.

I think the boat is in Panwa, I recall seeing an ad or something. Or maybe even a news article about stolen property.

[jaffacakes1]

All true. There is another large MMA gym opening on fight street in Spring next year I believe. I have been training at Tiger for over a year and have been astonished by the amount if development and successful businesses in that area. There are 4 gyms already on that one street.

Rather encouraging for the future of Phuket that the businesses succeeding here are within the fitness and health industry.

[patongphil]

Safari nightclub was another one I really liked. I used to go to bed early and set my alarm at 230am and head down there fresh. Easy pickings when your relatively sober. There was another nightclub called buzz or something similar next door.

I think we have met.

After I smartened up, I had implemented similar tactics.

I had some good times at Safari, but even better times once I got home from there.

Maybe you picked each other up - Whoo Hoo some kind of loving

[robertson468]

It's amazing to see how many people start up bars or restaurants in rediculous places. A little bit of time assessing the place and the business would save many a great deal of heartache and disappointment. There are those who, because they like something, believe that everyone else will like it and the hordes are going to come thronging in. In fact what they have done is narrowed considerably their potential client base. Sure, there are the popular themes like pizza bars/restaurants, but to complete with the hundreds of others, you need to be doing something special. Also starting up a heavy rock bar three kms from the town center will only get you a dribble of customers. The % of heavy metal fans in a given population is very small and who is going to walk 3 kms away from the center of entertainment? Having said that, the problem is not unique to Thailand. I understand the % of successful start ups in the UK is very small. Best advice, do your business appreciation and a business plan using the worse case scenario, then do a cash flow plan and realistically modulate the income for the seasonal factors. This helps to take off the "rose tinted glasses" and give you a much needed jolt of reality. If you don't understand business appreciation, business plan and cash flow, I suggest you should not even be thinking of starting a business. Having said that, to all the "Newbies", good luck and I wish you every success.

[nedkellylives]

If your dream is running a bar in Thailand make sure you see the audited tax figures for the business

These are the only reasonably accurate figures

also check the bar out for 2 weeks, owners will set you up by getting bar girls in and paying them to be there

which attracts male customers if you only check the bar out once

Do not be another failed business person

[LivinginKata]

off topic post removed. This not the topic to promote a business.

[patongphil]

If your dream is running a bar in Thailand make sure you see the audited tax figures for the business

These are the only reasonably accurate figures

also check the bar out for 2 weeks, owners will set you up by getting bar girls in and paying them to be there

which attracts male customers if you only check the bar out once

Do not be another failed business person

A business in Thailand that has real audited tax figures - I would like to see that.

[Ping]

Someone still remembers Patong Night Plaza? They tried to make people believe that Bang-La will be shut down and many tried to open a bar over there. Didn't last very long...

Was that the pretend mall just about opposite Cristine Massage on Rat-u-tit. I remember that, was empty/derelict for years then someone came up with the bars idea. There was some sort of club upstairs advertising Thai super models on show. Lasted about a couple of months. Derelict again for years and eventually demolished.

The failure of the Night Plaza was probably one of the reasons so many people (including on this forum) said that Jungceylon would not work. I don't think the upstairs area of the Night Plaza was ever occupied - but perhaps one or two boutique shops. Ocean moved a large supermarket into the back downstairs a fair time after the place had already opened - must have lost a lot of money. I recall wandering through the place a year or two after it was abandoned and all of the upstairs flooring was already destroyed (rippled). I seem to recall that they may have moved some sweat shops in there for a while. I think the problem was that in those days, it was in a bad location - out of the way. That was never going to be a problem for Jungceylon, because the area south of it had become established and it was handy to the centre of town.

[phuketrichard]

this brings to mind a dsicussion i had way back when i ran the Phuket "food, shopping entertainment guide" in the late 80's. I was doing my rounds in the Gay complex of the Paradise hotel and came across a new rests./gh. I met the owner and showed showed him the guide book and asked him if he was interested in a 500 baht/month listing. He declined an when i asked him why, he told me i had too many rest/gh already listed. OK, fare enough, so i asked him why he opened another one. No come back...

You old timers might recall on soi post office there was a really good fishing tackle shop thai owned that was always empty. He refused to do any advertising so no one knew he was there.

Big ideas but no idea how to promote and no business plan are the reasons for failure here.

Phuket lager was stared with Tom Macnamara of Baan Rim Pa

I also manged the Titanic back in the 80's. Great business plan an packed everynight, we didnt care at all about the farangs and catered to the Thai crowd., Chairats first venture into business

Sold the ONLY disco license to kevin who than opened the Shark club, whiich was very successful till he thought he was above paying off the right people

Than he opened Safari club

The owner tried to take on Mayor Pian in local mayoral elections and that was the end of his successful business.

wrong, it was owned by Khun Chairat , now the acting mayor of Patong,

Western Style pub on the front of Paradise Complex

also owned by Chairat

You all recall Brians bars on the way to the Titanic??

Edited October 14, 2013 by phuketrichard

[NamKangMan]

^

Exactly correct. Carrefour did not fail. They sold their Thailand stores in order to concentrate in Europe. Just a business strategy. BigC just bought up the Carrefour stores.

"they had failed to achieve their target market share as a result of trying to be too up market before the customer base was ready to support that approach." - ahhhh, sounds like they failed to me?

[NamKangMan]

@ Arkady

Interesting post. I tend to agree with your analysis of what happened to Carrefour.

[NamKangMan]

Has anyone been to the Thai boxing lately?

I see some tourists coming and going from there but it never looks like a lot. The cheapest ticket is now 1700 baht.

The bars downstairs were not sold, or went broke.

[KarenBravo]

Phuket Lager had a dishonest business plan.

They recruited expat agents to go sell cases of beer to businesses and then paid commission to the agent.

Then, they went behind the back of the original agent and offered a cheaper price for each case (original price minus agents commission).

I knew three people who were agents that this was done to.

It was a crappy beer anyway. It was Amarit NV with a colourful label.

[IrishIvan]

Phuket Lager had a dishonest business plan.

 

They recruited expat agents to go sell cases of beer to businesses and then paid commission to the agent.

Then, they went behind the back of the original agent and offered a cheaper price for each case (original price minus agents commission).

I knew three people who were agents that this was done to.

It was a crappy beer anyway. It was Amarit NV with a colourful label.

It was horrible beer. It would kill a brown dog

[jbrain]

Phuket Lager had a dishonest business plan.

They recruited expat agents to go sell cases of beer to businesses and then paid commission to the agent.

Then, they went behind the back of the original agent and offered a cheaper price for each case (original price minus agents commission).

I knew three people who were agents that this was done to.

It was a crappy beer anyway. It was Amarit NV with a colourful label.

The owners of Phuket lager must have been Dutch then

[phuketrichard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgY8bpKJWcg

[Old Croc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgY8bpKJWcg

A couple of minutes of those w.....s reviewing beers was all I could take.

Whatever their final verdict of the product was of little value for me.

[stevenl]

Phuket Lager had a dishonest business plan.

They recruited expat agents to go sell cases of beer to businesses and then paid commission to the agent.

Then, they went behind the back of the original agent and offered a cheaper price for each case (original price minus agents commission).

I knew three people who were agents that this was done to.

It was a crappy beer anyway. It was Amarit NV with a colourful label.

The owners of Phuket lager must have been Dutch then

??

[PattayaPhom]

Pepsi springs to mind

Eden Divers!! LMFAO What a joke that company was

Jimmys lighthouse has had more re-runs than MASH

Freedom bar went from Hero to Zero overnight

Valhalla in Patong was another one, I really liked that place. Its a shame it went bust

Strange about Eden Divers, I remember they were renowned for hiring office staff that were Bangla bar girls, no suprise they didnt do well but arnt they still going in Koh Lak?

[pairadocks]

Happy to share my personal $5000 f-up. 8 years ago and new to phuket invested in a patong bar with an english fellow who seemed to say all the right things. No excuses, I was young and studpid (and at the time usually under the influence). Long story short I never saw a return, nor ever documented any 'business transactions'. Walked away and resisted the temptation to take any action. I must admit I was happy to see the bloke fall on hard times when his next dodgy project failed spectacularly...VIP bar at the head of Bangla

[stevenl]

Pepsi springs to mind

 

Eden Divers!! LMFAO What a joke that company was

 

Jimmys lighthouse has had more re-runs than MASH

 

Freedom bar went from Hero to Zero overnight

 

Valhalla in Patong was another one, I really liked that place. Its a shame it went bust

Strange about Eden Divers, I remember they were renowned for hiring office staff that were Bangla bar girls, no suprise they didnt do well but arnt they still going in Koh Lak?

Yes, as I said earlier, still going in khao lak. And all in all the owner did not do too bad for himself.

Sent from my D90W using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[LivinginKata]

Strange about Eden Divers, I remember they were renowned for hiring office staff that were Bangla bar girls, no suprise they didnt do well but arnt they still going in Koh Lak?

Yes, as I said earlier, still going in khao lak. And all in all the owner did not do too bad for himself.

Are you talking about the original owner who started up Eden Divers, or the guy who bought the business? As far as I know the original owner was sucessful.

[stevenl]

Strange about Eden Divers, I remember they were renowned for hiring office staff that were Bangla bar girls, no suprise they didnt do well but arnt they still going in Koh Lak?

Yes, as I said earlier, still going in khao lak. And all in all the owner did not do too bad for himself.

Are you talking about the original owner who started up Eden Divers, or the guy who bought the business? As far as I know the original owner was sucessful.

AFAIK Eden Divers was started about 7? years ago, first expanded quickly and then shrunk and moved to Khao Lak. The same guy was running it from the beginning.

If it already existed before that time I don't recall, and it can't have been much (does not mean it was not profitable).

[jbrain]

Phuket Lager had a dishonest business plan.

They recruited expat agents to go sell cases of beer to businesses and then paid commission to the agent.

Then, they went behind the back of the original agent and offered a cheaper price for each case (original price minus agents commission).

I knew three people who were agents that this was done to.

It was a crappy beer anyway. It was Amarit NV with a colourful label.

The owners of Phuket lager must have been Dutch then

??

It was an inside joke, as I have been in business with dutch suppliers for most part of my business life, and it was a well know secret that you needed to hide your customer details from them or eventually they would find a cheaper supplier.

[LivinginKata]

Strange about Eden Divers, I remember they were renowned for hiring office staff that were Bangla bar girls, no suprise they didnt do well but arnt they still going in Koh Lak?

Yes, as I said earlier, still going in khao lak. And all in all the owner did not do too bad for himself.

Are you talking about the original owner who started up Eden Divers, or the guy who bought the business? As far as I know the original owner was sucessful.

AFAIK Eden Divers was started about 7? years ago, first expanded quickly and then shrunk and moved to Khao Lak. The same guy was running it from the beginning.

If it already existed before that time I don't recall, and it can't have been much (does not mean it was not profitable).

It was an Austrian guy called Peter who started this company. He was one on my long stay guests. Can't remember the year he started, maybe 11 years ago. He sold it about 7 years ago. The shop was always located in Rat-u-tit opposite side of the road from the main post office.

[stevenl]

It was an Austrian guy called Peter who started this company. He was one on my long stay guests. Can't remember the year he started, maybe 11 years ago. He sold it about 7 years ago. The shop was always located in Rat-u-tit opposite side of the road from the main post office.

In that case it was the second part of my answer 'If it already existed before that time I don't recall, and it can't have been much (does not mean it was not profitable)'.

The new owner expanded it a lot, with borrowed money, but did not make enough/any profit. So in the end he had to sell of again, and the investors were left with nothing. But he did not do to bad for himself, and moved the business to Khao Lak.