Non B Refused at Hull with WP and Company Papers Supplied

[digitalchromakey]

Hull have been referring all applications requesting Multiple Entry Visas to the Consular Facility at The London Embassy since the end of July - their web site states there will be a 48 hour delay as a consequence.

There is currently no specific information on the Hull Web site regarding Non Immigrant Category 'B' Visas.

A friend of mine applied ten days ago for a One Year Multiple Entry Non Immigrant Category 'B' Visa at Hull , as he has done there for the last five years.

He is not a Thai Visa Forum reader, but he still applied 10 days before his travel date as he is not in the business of taking any risks; he initially supplied a copy of his WP and an Invitation letter as this is what had been requested by Hull in the past two years.

Hull then contacted him stating that they required the Company Papers for such an application, then supplied the Registration Document, a current set of company papers from Commerce issued in July, last year's accounts, PND 50, 51 ,91 and a map showing the location of the company's offices. The Company is a Thai Limited Partnership so there is no list of shareholders - so far so good.

He was contacted by a Thai lady at Hull who said they wanted a copy of the Company Affidavit (this he had by this stage already supplied). He checked with his Thai Accountant who informed him that he already had sent this document to Hull, he then contacted the Thai lady at Hull who said that the company papers from DBD were not what was required as the company affidavit was only one page! This was last Wednesday and by this stage time was running out as he was due to fly the following Monday. My friend then asked for a single entry non immigrant 'B' - this was also refused by the Thai lady at Hull as his company papers were 'not correct'.

When he got his passport back, Hull had added (on their own initiative) a Single Entry 60 Day Tourist Visa with 90 day validity (which for the holder of a current Thai WP is about as useful as a chocolate kettle).

Time has now run out to resolve the issue in the UK, so he is flying back to Thailand on Monday (as his flights cannot be changed) then will have to go straight away on a visa run to get a Single Entry 90 day Non 'B' as his WP only has 3 months validity remaining.

My friend will not use Hull again and I advice anyone with correct paperwork who wants a non immigrant 'B' visa to apply at the Thai Embassy Consular Facility in London and cut out the middle man.

[beano2274]

If his company is real and he has a work permit, why does he not apply in Thailand?

[thaiexpat21]

digitalchromakey

If your friend has all the correct paperwork why not just apply for an extension of stay ?

[digitalchromakey]

If his company is real and he has a work permit, why does he not apply in Thailand?

Because although living here, he travels to the UK annually to visit family plus normally exits Thailand at least every 90 days on business.

[digitalchromakey]

digitalchromakey

If your friend has all the correct paperwork why not just apply for an extension of stay ?

Yes he has the correct paperwork - I have seen it; ultimately it's his choice, he is not a Thai Visa afficiando and has been happy to use his system for the last 10 years.

His company is small (Limited Partnership), plus does not currently have VAT registration or turnover much more than his hard earned salary in/out and these would without doubt cause problems with a 777/2551 Case 2.1 Extension.

[beano2274]

and a re-entry permit is not that difficult to get..

If he does not have the VAT Registration then surely the company is in fact illegal....(my thinking)

[digitalchromakey]

and a re-entry permit is not that difficult to get..

If he does not have the VAT Registration then surely the company is in fact illegal....(my thinking)

Of course you can think what you like, but why on earth would a company be illegal just because it has no VAT registration, please explain?

[beano2274]

it was my understanding that VAT registration was needed for a company, however i was indeed wrong if the threshold is under 1.8 million Baht then no VAT registration is required.

[dcsw53]

If his company is real and he has a work permit, why does he not apply in Thailand?

Because although living here, he travels to the UK annually to visit family plus normally exits Thailand at least every 90 days on business.

But you say he has 3 months remaining on his work permit ( his B Visa ? ) so why not just come back and apply here ? Does not make sense, Far less hassle than going to Hessle

[NanLaew]

If his company is real and he has a work permit, why does he not apply in Thailand?

Because although living here, he travels to the UK annually to visit family plus normally exits Thailand at least every 90 days on business.

But you say he has 3 months remaining on his work permit ( his B Visa ? ) so why not just come back and apply here ? Does not make sense, Far less hassle than going to Hessle

The OP's acquaintance was usually in the UK at the time so prior to the recent visa qualification changes, it probably was less hassle in Hessle.

[LivinLOS]

If his company is real and he has a work permit, why does he not apply in Thailand?

Thai staff.. VAT.. Annual turnover and tax.. Etc etc etc.

Lots of reasons why a visa can be issued (usually) but a extension cannot.. I agree it would be much easier if they truly standardized it and the same rules were across the board, but the same rules dont seem to be applied from breakfast to dinner when it comes to much of this so it really does fall on them.

[IMA_FARANG]

One Year Multiple Entry Non Immigrant Category 'B' Visa

Right there is the problem.

First now all Non O visas have to go through the Thai London embassy.

Secondly, WHY does he or she really need a multiple entry B visa.

Does he or she travel repeatedly outside Thailand for Business reasons?

(In that case do an extension inside Thailand and purchase a multi exit re-entry permit for those multiple business trips).

If he or she does can his or her company document that with a letter stating that to the Thai embassy?

And if it can, will it?

To put it clearly: there is a group of U.K. expats living in Thailand, who for their own purposes, repeatedly get a new multi-entry visa of some type every year.

This season it seems to be that a Non Immigrant B visa is the favorite flavor.

The Thais believe that many of these "repeat" multi entry visa requesting applicants do NOT have any valid reason to get a multi entry visa.

They are suspicious that many if not all of these multi year applicants are working in Thailand and using there multi entry visa to cover the fact that they are working illegally in Thailand without a Work Permit.

They may still be approved, but those applicants are going to have to prove they really need a multi entry

So now all multi entry visa applications are going to be carefully checked by the Thai embassy in London.

The Thais think these repeated-every-year multi entry visa applicants are trying to feed them a load of "male cattle fecal matter" and they are angry about it.

Sorry to be so blunt, but that is the facts of the matter.

The Thai immigration authorities just doesn't believe you anymore.

They smell the B--------t and they don't like it.

His company is small (Limited Partnership), plus does not currently have VAT registration or turnover much more than his hard earned salary in/out and these would without doubt cause problems with a 777/2551 Case 2.1 Extension.

Exactly.

The correct term for that is "Tax scam".

[mrtoad]

Most people get a single entry multiple B, apply for an extension of stay and add a reentry permit inot their passport. I am interested in how Hull is now operating, as in the past I've always advised any of our new staff coming from the UK to go through Hull, as it was always simpler than London, however there is still no consistency with any of the consuls or embassies, each one seems to have different requirements, depending on where they are.

[digitalchromakey]

If his company is real and he has a work permit, why does he not apply in Thailand?

Because although living here, he travels to the UK annually to visit family plus normally exits Thailand at least every 90 days on business.

But you say he has 3 months remaining on his work permit ( his B Visa ? ) so why not just come back and apply here ? Does not make sense, Far less hassle than going to Hessle

Because his Multiple Entry Non 'B' expired in September whilst he was visiting the UK. He always takes his holiday there in September and gets a new One Year Mulriple Entry whilst there.

[digitalchromakey]

One Year Multiple Entry Non Immigrant Category 'B' Visa

Right there is the problem.

First now all Non O visas have to go through the Thai London embassy.

Secondly, WHY does he or she really need a multiple entry B visa.

Does he or she travel repeatedly outside Thailand for Business reasons?

(In that case do an extension inside Thailand and purchase a multi exit re-entry permit for those multiple business trips).

If he or she does can his or her company document that with a letter stating that to the Thai embassy?

And if it can, will it?

To put it clearly: there is a group of U.K. expats living in Thailand, who for their own purposes, repeatedly get a new multi-entry visa of some type every year.

This season it seems to be that a Non Immigrant B visa is the favorite flavor.

The Thais believe that many of these "repeat" multi entry visa requesting applicants do NOT have any valid reason to get a multi entry visa.

They are suspicious that many if not all of these multi year applicants are working in Thailand and using there multi entry visa to cover the fact that they are working illegally in Thailand without a Work Permit.

They may still be approved, but those applicants are going to have to prove they really need a multi entry

So now all multi entry visa applications are going to be carefully checked by the Thai embassy in London.

The Thais think these repeated-every-year multi entry visa applicants are trying to feed them a load of "male cattle fecal matter" and they are angry about it.

Sorry to be so blunt, but that is the facts of the matter.

The Thai immigration authorities just doesn't believe you anymore.

They smell the B--------t and they don't like it.

His company is small (Limited Partnership), plus does not currently have VAT registration or turnover much more than his hard earned salary in/out and these would without doubt cause problems with a 777/2551 Case 2.1 Extension.

Exactly.

The correct term for that is "Tax scam".

This guy has a legitimate Thai company, has held a work permit for more than ten years, he works harder that most, based here in Thailand with work that takes him out of Thailand probably at least once per month, for eleven months of the year and also pays all his tax due here in Thailand.

The fact that his turnover is less than 1.8 Million THB per annum means he does not have to register his company for VAT.

How is this B........t or for that matter a Tax Scam?

[Suradit69]

If his company is real and he has a work permit, why does he not apply in Thailand?

Because although living here, he travels to the UK annually to visit family plus normally exits Thailand at least every 90 days on business.

This guy has a legitimate Thai company, has held a work permit for more than ten years, he works harder that most, based here in Thailand with work that takes him out of Thailand probably at least once per month, for eleven months of the year and also pays all his tax due here in Thailand.

The fact that his turnover is less than 1.8 Million THB per annum means he does not have to register his company for VAT.

How is this B........t or for that matter a Tax Scam?

"with work that takes him out of Thailand probably at least once per month, for eleven months"

"he travels to the UK annually to visit family plus normally exits Thailand at least every 90 days on business."

If he had an extension of stay and a re-entry permit, he could go out every 90 days (which isn't exactly "at least once per month") or go on holiday in UK. That's the point of having a re-entry permit.

[doublephil]

I was recently refused a 1 year multiple Non-B at Hull even though I was certain all the required documents were correct and supplied to them. I am a director of a UK registered company and a Thai registered company and I double checked everything with them by phone before I went to the consulate.

They would only issue me with a 90 day single entry Non-B and told me to get an extension in Thailand. I need muti entry because I travel fairly frequently to Myanmar for business. I have been to the Hull consulate for past 10 years and never had a problem. I live locally and they know me and they have always been extremely friendly and helpful. This year they were very awkward and unfriendly and treated me as if they had never seen me before. I insisted the paperwork was correct and they equally insisted it was not and refused to issue the 1 year multiple.

I called the Thai Embassy in London and double checked the exact requirements and they confirmed everything was OK for a 1 year multi Non-B. They were very helpful and friendly. I went back to the Hull consulate and told them I had double checked with the embassy and quoted the name of the Thai person who had spoken with me. They told me to wait and a few minutes later said they could issue a 1 year multi Non-B. So they cancelled the 90 day single entry and issued the 1 year multi - but forced me to pay the full fee again. I got no explanation and no apology from them and it was all done with an obvious reluctance and unfriendliness - preumably because she had " lost face".

Anyway I eventually got the correct visa after several days and just in time to catch my flight.

I don't know why their attitude has changed - but it is definitely not as easy as it used to be to get a visa at Hull - even when you do have all the correct paperwork

[Muhendis]

This story smacks of domineering bureaucracy by a person or persons in Hull. It sounds to me like they are enjoying an abuse of power. Try Cardiff consulate. I have, in the past, found them to be very efficient and helpful to a fault. There was a senior guy there, Mike I think his name is (who may have moved on by now), his wish was to retire to Thailand so he understood what we needed.

[brewsterbudgen]

But surely if you're working (legally) you just need a single entry non-Imm B, which is then converted into an extension of stay (for a year) with a work permit and a re-entry permit allows as many exits & re-entries as you like.

Seems like Hull is now doing it correctly.

[lopburi3]

You can not obtain an extension of stay without meeting requirements - for employment that may be a higher wage than the work permit requires.

The paperwork for extension requires tax payment receipts - which often is not available for several years with a new company.

Multi entry non immigrant B visas are used for business travelers not working in Thailand so there is no option to receive extensions of stay.

[Sharp]

and a re-entry permit is not that difficult to get..

 

If he does not have the VAT Registration then surely the company is in fact illegal....(my thinking)

Not true u don't have to register for VAT if the gross income is under 1.8 million baht

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[Paul888]

I don't think Hull are being intentionally dificult. I think they have had the scope of their operations reduced and are being very closely monitored as a direct result of being considered over "friendly" in the past.

Think along the lines of a store manager demoted to the level of trainee.

[chaiyapoon]

I was at Hessle the other day previously phoning for an appointment.When I arrived the place was empty and I was dealt with in 10 minutes.At the moment unless you just need a touist visa they are at the mercy of the london embassy and have to ensure what they send is exactly what the embassy wants or they get it back.

I don't think Hessle have any power any more.Their main use was their ability to issue Non img Os for what was not strictly the requirement stated in the rules this has now been stopped .

[baboon]

I fear the staff at Hull will soon be joining the ranks of the unemployed if this scrutiny by London continues - they must be suffering a huge, huge drop in revenue now...

[asean]

all companies that have work permits must register for VAT regardless of turnover / income.

[ubonjoe]

It is not required for work permits or extensions if sales and etc. are less than 1.8 mil baht.

[Maverell]

all companies that have work permits must register for VAT regardless of turnover / income.

I am of the same opinion. Every lawyer I have spoken to about this says the same ( which is unusual ) - to get work permits the company has to be registered for vat - they dont have to pay it if they are not making enough money , just register and send in returns.

[ubonjoe]

all companies that have work permits must register for VAT regardless of turnover / income.

I am of the same opinion. Every lawyer I have spoken to about this says the same ( which is unusual ) - to get work permits the company has to be registered for vat - they dont have to pay it if they are not making enough money , just register and send in returns.

This is what the police order for extension shows. I am certain that if it was required for work permits they would want it to since they have taken over the duties of work permit rules enforcement when it comes to extensions.

8. Monthly value added tax returns must be filed for any business recorded for value added tax registration (all businesses that earn income by selling or providing services or from other main income of more than Baht 1,800,000 per year or in the amount which is required to be registered for value added tax by the Revenue Department)

If it earns more money to process the paperwork then lawyers will say it is needed.

[digitalchromakey]

all companies that have work permits must register for VAT regardless of turnover / income.

I am of the same opinion. Every lawyer I have spoken to about this says the same ( which is unusual ) - to get work permits the company has to be registered for vat - they dont have to pay it if they are not making enough money , just register and send in returns.

The above is not correct.

Maybe there are some Labour Departments that will not, but certainly in my area (HKT), Work Permits can be and are issued to foreign employees of companies that are legitimately exempt from VAT registration, but otherwise meet the criteriae for WP issue.

VAT Registration is only mandated if turnover exceeds 1.8 Million THB per annum, there are also some exemptions.

Please see link below to the Thai Revenue Department Web Page on VAT:

http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6043.0.html

[bigsteve]

I am the friend of digitalchromakey mentioned in the OP.

I arrived back in Thailand on Tuesday pm on the single entry tourist visa issued by Hull as stated in the OP. I then left on Wednesday evening by visa run bus with exactly the same paperwork as I had provided to Hull and returned yesterday with a single entry non-b. I will now start putting the necessaries together to apply at Phuket immigration for an extension of stay as I wouldn't want to go through the same experience again next year when I return to the UK to visit family.

Steve

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