GuestHouse Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) This for a bit of fun and curiosity. Prompted by a discussion in the When to Retire? How much Money? thread I got to thinking it is very clear that we all have different needs and that some of the 'polite' misunderstanding within that discussion comes from people not being aware or understanding the fact that the people they are in conversation with simply view life's needs differently. Time to drag out some psychology to help explain - Maslov's pyramid is based on studies of Healthy seemingly well balanced people (just like us TVF members) it indicates a hierarchy of needs which I'm sure we'll all recognise in ourselves and others - we ought with retrospection be able to also see where we are on the pyramid and with a little more introspection be able to cast our minds back to times when were felt we were at a different level on the pyramid - I for example can recall serious long term illness and being right their struggling on the bottom. You might recall, being at one level and moving to another as you arrived in Thailand (a positive life change would be expected to produce a positive move on the pyramid - but of, as I have indicated the reverse is also true). So looking at the attached image where do you see yourself, and do you think moving to Thailand moved you on this pyramid? Edited October 14, 2013 by GuestHouse 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) Sorry I had to edit the post to add the pyramid Edited October 14, 2013 by GuestHouse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bocceball1 Posted October 14, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted October 14, 2013 I'd like to think I'm at the ESTEEM level.....I am an old man...so I have prejudices (against ignorance, hubris etc.) and really don't accept the term "facts" because what is a "fact" to you may not be to me. “There is something infantile in the presumption that somebody else has a responsibility to give your life meaning and point… The truly adult view, by contrast, is that our life is as meaningful, as full and as wonderful as we choose to make it.” 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Average Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) Interesting, but how is this Thailand-related? Edited October 14, 2013 by lopburi3 oversize images Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 Interesting, but how is this Thailand-related? Because it relates to wherever we live and I specifically ask did moving to Thailand move you on the pyramid. It is also very relevant to discussions between members on this forum which relate to personal needs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 The answer is very much depending on your upbringing and on your personality (ego). "Basic life needs" as Maslow put it in his 8-level tree later in his studies depend on what you had in your childhood. The requirements for "social needs" (love, belongings) heavily depend on your personality, loners will require much less. Also depending on your personality, self-esteem might be more important so some people than love needs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuestHouse Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 The answer is very much depending on your upbringing and on your personality (ego). "Basic life needs" as Maslow put it in his 8-level tree later in his studies depend on what you had in your childhood. The requirements for "social needs" (love, belongings) heavily depend on your personality, loners will require much less. Also depending on your personality, self-esteem might be more important so some people than love needs. Yes, understood, but the question is not why, because there are as many why's as there are people - the question is 'where to individuals see themselves on the pyramid?' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpofc Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I'd like to think I'm at the ESTEEM level.....I am an old man...so I have prejudices (against ignorance, hubris etc.) and really don't accept the term "facts" because what is a "fact" to you may not be to me. “There is something infantile in the presumption that somebody else has a responsibility to give your life meaning and point… The truly adult view, by contrast, is that our life is as meaningful, as full and as wonderful as we choose to make it.” Bit heavy for a Monday Morning. LOL. Old Jungle Saying: People are entitled to their own Opinion. Just not their own Facts. Fact is anything that is indisputably true. It is something that has been tested and proven, hence its based on knowledge. BTW, it's good to be Pharaoh A recent article about Abraham Maslow - NOT Maslov, you're thinkng of the bloke with the dog. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23902918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Average Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Interesting, but how is this Thailand-related? Because it relates to wherever we live and I specifically ask did moving to Thailand move you on the pyramid. It is also very relevant to discussions between members on this forum which relate to personal needs. OK, I'm with you. In my case, I'm at a higher level now than when I first came here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cpofc Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Interesting, but how is this Thailand-related? Because it relates to wherever we live and I specifically ask did moving to Thailand move you on the pyramid. It is also very relevant to discussions between members on this forum which relate to personal needs. OK, I'm with you. In my case, I'm at a higher level now than when I first came here. hehehe so what you are saying is that you are above average now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post soi41 Posted October 14, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted October 14, 2013 I'd like to think I'm at the ESTEEM level.....I am an old man...so I have prejudices (against ignorance, hubris etc.) and really don't accept the term "facts" because what is a "fact" to you may not be to me. “There is something infantile in the presumption that somebody else has a responsibility to give your life meaning and point… The truly adult view, by contrast, is that our life is as meaningful, as full and as wonderful as we choose to make it.” Bit heavy for a Monday Morning. LOL..A recent article about Abraham Maslow - NOT Maslov, you're thinkng of the bloke with the dog.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23902918 Just love when the spelling-police gets it wrong! "The bloke with the dog" was Pavlov!! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 The answer is very much depending on your upbringing and on your personality (ego). "Basic life needs" as Maslow put it in his 8-level tree later in his studies depend on what you had in your childhood. The requirements for "social needs" (love, belongings) heavily depend on your personality, loners will require much less. Also depending on your personality, self-esteem might be more important so some people than love needs. Yes, understood, but the question is not why, because there are as many why's as there are people - the question is 'where to individuals see themselves on the pyramid?' Personally, I qualify for the "Esteem" level with no intention to qualify for the full set of "self-actualization", as I am happy at where I am right now. And once I retire to Thailand in few years to come, this most likely will not change. I do however put a very high attention on the safety level. While I am completely safe right now here in Switzerland (with loads of social safety networks available), at present I would not yet feel safe enough for the retirement step, as I have not yet achieved the financial level that I want to achieve for myself before my move. Why do I mention above? Maslow wrote in one of his papers, that before you can achieve an upper level, you must master the lower level. I therefore think - based on many threads also here on ThaiVisa - that lot of the people who retired to Thailand with not enough safety (money) will drop in the levels once they realize that they are not safe anymore in this country. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieH Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) I always thought Pavlov was a cake, a type of merengue, Love strawberry Palova !..lol As for the Pyramid....mmmm.... constant flux between 1 -3 I would guess. ( with 1 being the base) Edited October 14, 2013 by CharlieH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCer Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Could one be thinly spread over all five levels? Really thinly? That is what I feel... mmm ... come Friday my feelings usually change... Just being honest with myself BTW, Pavlov's dog was a slobbering type, always salivating at least provocation. I prefer Dobermanns. Neat and love biting people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ABCer Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) Could one be thinly spread over all five levels? Really thinly? That is what I feel... mmm ... come Friday my feelings usually change... Just being honest with myself BTW, Pavlov's dog was a slobbering type, always salivating at least provocation. I prefer Dobermanns. Neat and love biting people. Oh, yes, I think I've moved up, but still am spread all over. Contradictions... Edited October 14, 2013 by ABCer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FiftyTwo Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) Interesting, but how is this Thailand-related? Because it relates to wherever we live and I specifically ask did moving to Thailand move you on the pyramid. It is also very relevant to discussions between members on this forum which relate to personal needs. OK, I'm with you. In my case, I'm at a higher level now than when I first came here. We are all on a higher level that when we were in the west. Mainly because none of us (men) could get enough (if any) sex to raise us above the base. And on level 2, security of employment ..... not many had that either. Level 3, sexual intimacy, only available for about 3 years in the western world. (Although it might have been I was the west's biggest loser, but I didn't notice many doing much better than me) Here everyone can satisfy the base level. In Thailand I'm right up at the top, self esteem went through the roof when I finally realised how hansum I really was! Edited October 14, 2013 by FiftyTwo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papa al Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) I'm at the top of the pyramid, just like the Dali Lama. Thanks for asking. Edited October 14, 2013 by metisdead Font Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benmart Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I'd like to think I'm at the ESTEEM level.....I am an old man...so I have prejudices (against ignorance, hubris etc.) and really don't accept the term "facts" because what is a "fact" to you may not be to me. There is something infantile in the presumption that somebody else has a responsibility to give your life meaning and point The truly adult view, by contrast, is that our life is as meaningful, as full and as wonderful as we choose to make it. Bit heavy for a Monday Morning. LOL. .A recent article about Abraham Maslow - NOT Maslov, you're thinkng of the bloke with the dog. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23902918 Just love when the spelling-police gets it wrong!"The bloke with the dog" was Pavlov!! We are all learning through our journey in life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrtoad Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I like the 8 tier version, which has evolved over the years - but Maslow's Heirarchy of needs, although an old concept is still relevant today. Smart man he was. I think people can move up and down them, very much depending on where they are within their life and whats happening. I think that part of me hopes that I have managed to reach transcendence , although again I think that is probably wishful thinking, although there have certainly been occasions where it has happened. For me I think I move between esteem and self actualization; but there is always room for more personal growth and awareness. I'd imagine though that there are many that bounce between the bottom two tiers, given some of the lifestyle choices that people make. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Travel2003 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 From Esteem to Safety 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 What happens if you are on the edge of all of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swiss1960 Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 What happens if you are on the edge of all of them? Then you probably gonna die soon... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheapcharly Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) I went inside the pyramid and got lost. Edited October 14, 2013 by Cheapcharly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 What happens if you are on the edge of all of them? Then you probably gonna die soon... Well, that's something to look forward to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisakiman Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 The answer is very much depending on your upbringing and on your personality (ego). "Basic life needs" as Maslow put it in his 8-level tree later in his studies depend on what you had in your childhood. The requirements for "social needs" (love, belongings) heavily depend on your personality, loners will require much less. Also depending on your personality, self-esteem might be more important so some people than love needs. Yes, understood, but the question is not why, because there are as many why's as there are people - the question is 'where to individuals see themselves on the pyramid?' Personally, I qualify for the "Esteem" level with no intention to qualify for the full set of "self-actualization", as I am happy at where I am right now. And once I retire to Thailand in few years to come, this most likely will not change. I do however put a very high attention on the safety level. While I am completely safe right now here in Switzerland (with loads of social safety networks available), at present I would not yet feel safe enough for the retirement step, as I have not yet achieved the financial level that I want to achieve for myself before my move. Why do I mention above? Maslow wrote in one of his papers, that before you can achieve an upper level, you must master the lower level. I therefore think - based on many threads also here on ThaiVisa - that lot of the people who retired to Thailand with not enough safety (money) will drop in the levels once they realize that they are not safe anymore in this country. On a personal level, I'd disagree with that. The 'safety' level was the one of least importance to me, and for the record, although I don't yet live in Thailand (we may well move there in a couple of years) I am an expat, and have been for years. I work for myself (and have done for 30 years) and have no security of employment. Yet, without any self-aggrandisement (this is the problem with this type of lower - higher position; better it was horizontal) I would say I'm comfortably in the top section of the pyramid. My work is creative, and I enjoy it. All the things in the peak of the pyramid apply to me to a greater or lesser extent. But in the 'safety' level, security of income and work are not a part of my life. I've always lived on the edge in that respect, and that's the way I like it. I'm comfortable not having a safety net. I don't see moving to Thailand having any effect on my life (apart from the change of culture - something I'm accustomed to) at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossfinn Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 What happens if you are on the edge of all of them? You get to sit down and contemplate life, but on reflection that could be a little painful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAJIC Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 This type of Psychology chart does not fit everybody,we all measure our position,by our own,needs and important criterion. broadly speaking we are not all measured by the same yardstick. I would estimate the goals to be achieved on this interpretation of the Pyramid of life,no better than a 70% generalisation. And on top of that,the position on the graduation scales,would be in a constant state of flux,according to mood swings,and changes of opinions,circumstances, and personal viewpoints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forethat Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I might be completely off here, but I dont understand what you mean by "where do you see yourself". Are you perhaps missing the point of Maslovs pyramid or simply using it for another purpose..? Or do you mean "which of the following pieces of necessary needs do you have at least a small portion of in your life"? You can't "be" in a Maslovs pyramid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Sorry I had to edit the post to add the pyramid I have the most part of every part of the pyramid - what does that mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forethat Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) Sorry I had to edit the post to add the pyramid I have the most part of every part of the pyramid - what does that mean? It means that you could but not necessarily have a balanced life where the fundamental needs are proportionate to each other ranked in essential importance and interdependency. Edited October 14, 2013 by Forethat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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