Your Investment Goals

[bocceball1]

Another thread was started regarding investing in building a mini-market in Issan. Some posters got a little off topic regarding their investment advice. So, to all of you out there ...What advice do you have? What do you think is the Best investment? Please make the difference between young investors and old retired investors?

[ExpatJ]

I follow the following:

1) Never use foreign/farang financial advisers who are based in Thailand; never use advisers who cold call.

2) Split your portfolio - 10% gold; @30% in long term 'secure' stocks to leave for 5-20 years i.e. blue chip US dividend stocks (reinvest the dividends in the stock) and Mutual Funds; @35% actively managed stocks (good for those of us who like to use technical analysis, follow market more closely) and corporate bonds; 25% cash.

3) Try and buy one or two rental properties as part of your portfolio.

4) Try and line up some secure income streams for retirement- i.e. a defined benefit pension, govt pension or annuity (likely/hopefully rates will improve in next few years significantly for annuities) . The stress of having to retire with a fixed pot of money and estimate how long you will live for is terrible plus when you are old and feeble you wont be able to manage your investments so well (plus who - apart from some on thaivisa ha- wants to spend their retirement online reaching investments to ensure a steady income flow!?). So for those with big enough portfolios and without a steady pension- 200-400k$ into annuities will give @1-2,200 $ per month, guaranteed till you die and this can be part of a good solid income foundation for any retirement.

[bocceball1]

Expatj.....sound advice...

But..."200-400k$ into annuities will give @1-2,200 $ per month, guaranteed till you die and this can be part of a good solid income foundation for any retirement."

What if the company that sold you the annuities with a guaranteed income goes bankrupt????

[ExpatJ]

Expatj.....sound advice...

But..."200-400k$ into annuities will give @1-2,200 $ per month, guaranteed till you die and this can be part of a good solid income foundation for any retirement."

What if the company that sold you the annuities with a guaranteed income goes bankrupt????

Need to try and spread it around among companies (im not sure what the minimum amount is)..

[bocceball1]

Are most of TV members relying just on their pensions and live in Thailand because its affordable???? ie ...Don't think many TV members have $200-400k to invest.

[GuestHouse]

I try very hard to recognise the distinction between and investment and a gamble.

Having hopefully navigated that hurdle the next challenge is to make sure the investments (or even the mistaken gambles) remain in my control.

Get those two right and then spread your investments in whatever you choose - you'll at least not run the risk of loosing everything.

[CharlieH]

The best you can hope for is you find something that will be better than the rate of inflation.

If your in Thailand, make sure you can get at it, dont put all your eggs in one basket, and if the sh** hits the fan make sure it can be liquidated and removed easily whilst planning your route out.

[scobie redux]

There is no such thing as the 'Best investment' per se. If there was, everyone would be in it.

There are only investments that are best for your unique set of circumstances, and those circumstances fluctuate wildly and include such issues as age, risk profile, investment goals, likes and dislikes etc.

What is good for you, might be rubbish for someone else.

[bocceball1]

There is no such thing as the 'Best investment' per se. If there was, everyone would be in it.

There are only investments that are best for your unique set of circumstances, and those circumstances fluctuate wildly and include such issues as age, risk profile, investment goals, likes and dislikes etc.

What is good for you, might be rubbish for someone else.

Agreed....So what is YOUR idea of the best investment? Kinda wanted to hear other people's thoughts on what the Best investment was as we are all in different circumstances...

When it comes to the world of investing, three words come to mind: overwhelming, intimidating, and scary. For us "regular Joes," the questions seem never-ending.

I will tell you how to become rich. Close the doors. Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful." - Warren Buffett

"In investing, what is comfortable is rarely profitable." - Robert Arnott

[h90]

I follow the following:

1) Never use foreign/farang financial advisers who are based in Thailand; never use advisers who cold call.

2) Split your portfolio - 10% gold; @30% in long term 'secure' stocks to leave for 5-20 years i.e. blue chip US dividend stocks (reinvest the dividends in the stock) and Mutual Funds; @35% actively managed stocks (good for those of us who like to use technical analysis, follow market more closely) and corporate bonds; 25% cash.

3) Try and buy one or two rental properties as part of your portfolio.

4) Try and line up some secure income streams for retirement- i.e. a defined benefit pension, govt pension or annuity (likely/hopefully rates will improve in next few years significantly for annuities) . The stress of having to retire with a fixed pot of money and estimate how long you will live for is terrible plus when you are old and feeble you wont be able to manage your investments so well (plus who - apart from some on thaivisa ha- wants to spend their retirement online reaching investments to ensure a steady income flow!?). So for those with big enough portfolios and without a steady pension- 200-400k$ into annuities will give @1-2,200 $ per month, guaranteed till you die and this can be part of a good solid income foundation for any retirement.

you can't underline this enough:

never use advisers who cold call.

They call me frequently....there must be people who believe them else they wouldn't call all the time.

Before I always told them that I complete broke and bankrupt, but even that doesn't work anymore.

I would tell my staff to tell them that I died.....but my wife thinks that is not appropriate and unlucky. I believe it would be very lucky to be deleted from their database

[h90]

There is no such thing as the 'Best investment' per se. If there was, everyone would be in it.

There are only investments that are best for your unique set of circumstances, and those circumstances fluctuate wildly and include such issues as age, risk profile, investment goals, likes and dislikes etc.

What is good for you, might be rubbish for someone else.

Agreed....So what is YOUR idea of the best investment? Kinda wanted to hear other people's thoughts on what the Best investment was as we are all in different circumstances...

When it comes to the world of investing, three words come to mind: overwhelming, intimidating, and scary. For us "regular Joes," the questions seem never-ending.

I will tell you how to become rich. Close the doors. Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful." - Warren Buffett

"In investing, what is comfortable is rarely profitable." - Robert Arnott

"How to get rich...With honest work it needs longest" -- My Grandfather (who tried it all his life with honest work)

[bocceball1]

There is no such thing as the 'Best investment' per se. If there was, everyone would be in it.

There are only investments that are best for your unique set of circumstances, and those circumstances fluctuate wildly and include such issues as age, risk profile, investment goals, likes and dislikes etc.

What is good for you, might be rubbish for someone else.

Agreed....So what is YOUR idea of the best investment? Kinda wanted to hear other people's thoughts on what the Best investment was as we are all in different circumstances...

When it comes to the world of investing, three words come to mind: overwhelming, intimidating, and scary. For us "regular Joes," the questions seem never-ending.

I will tell you how to become rich. Close the doors. Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful." - Warren Buffett

"In investing, what is comfortable is rarely profitable." - Robert Arnott

"How to get rich...With honest work it needs longest" -- My Grandfather (who tried it all his life with honest work)

And truth be told ....Most never got Rich by just working.....the billionaires yesterday and today all got there by investing or developing an idea that everybody paid to have (and some by cheating and stealing).......

BUT if you work at a job you truly love....you are the one who is rich in life.

[mrtoad]

I follow the following:

1) Never use foreign/farang financial advisers who are based in Thailand; never use advisers who cold call.

2) Split your portfolio - 10% gold; @30% in long term 'secure' stocks to leave for 5-20 years i.e. blue chip US dividend stocks (reinvest the dividends in the stock) and Mutual Funds; @35% actively managed stocks (good for those of us who like to use technical analysis, follow market more closely) and corporate bonds; 25% cash.

3) Try and buy one or two rental properties as part of your portfolio.

4) Try and line up some secure income streams for retirement- i.e. a defined benefit pension, govt pension or annuity (likely/hopefully rates will improve in next few years significantly for annuities) . The stress of having to retire with a fixed pot of money and estimate how long you will live for is terrible plus when you are old and feeble you wont be able to manage your investments so well (plus who - apart from some on thaivisa ha- wants to spend their retirement online reaching investments to ensure a steady income flow!?). So for those with big enough portfolios and without a steady pension- 200-400k$ into annuities will give @1-2,200 $ per month, guaranteed till you die and this can be part of a good solid income foundation for any retirement.

you can't underline this enough:

never use advisers who cold call.

They call me frequently....there must be people who believe them else they wouldn't call all the time.

Before I always told them that I complete broke and bankrupt, but even that doesn't work anymore.

I would tell my staff to tell them that I died.....but my wife thinks that is not appropriate and unlucky. I believe it would be very lucky to be deleted from their database

I'd like to also +1 both of these comments. Anyone who is new hear should be warned of the vermin that cold call frequently, with a view to milking commissions out of your money.

There are a number of threads about said companies, some are more well known than others, and they will go to any length to get contact details.

To reiterate do not have any dealings with companies that cold call, and be very wary of any IFA in Thailand, most of them are former used car salesmen.

[Mr Average]

you can't underline this enough:

never use advisers who cold call.

Yep, best advice of all.

Cold callers work for dodgy companies. Always avoid.

I invest with Rothschilds in Guernsey and Credit Suisse in London. These companies do NOT cold call.

And nor do other reputable companies.

[SanukDii]

Spread your risk around but certainly put some in solid dividend paying stocks that have dividends in excess of the rate of inflation and have more than 2x divi cover - set it on compound and you'll double your money in no time. And stock is very liquid.

No point in money in the bank (well, let's say a years expenses for emergencies) as inflation will give you negative returns on that.

I know a lot of people like to call gold an investment, in my opinion it isn't - it's speculation. Gold doesn't provide income, at least physical gold doesn't, and it can depreciate in value (life being what it is that will no doubt be when you need to sell it.) If you're holding it through a third party there are storage costs too. You'd be better putting your money in BHP or Rio Tinto at least they pay dividends on the metals they mine and sell, and if the price of metals rises so does the stock price and their profits which comes back to you in the dividend.

I guess I am still in the accumilation phase, my strategy may change later on - although apart from annuities I'll probably just start taking the dividends rather than compounding.

Anyway as is by now probably patently obvious I am no expert, it's just my own strategy and it seems to be working so far.

[ExpatJ]

Spread your risk around but certainly put some in solid dividend paying stocks that have dividends in excess of the rate of inflation and have more than 2x divi cover - set it on compound and you'll double your money in no time. And stock is very liquid.

No point in money in the bank (well, let's say a years expenses for emergencies) as inflation will give you negative returns on that.

I know a lot of people like to call gold an investment, in my opinion it isn't - it's speculation. Gold doesn't provide income, at least physical gold doesn't, and it can depreciate in value (life being what it is that will no doubt be when you need to sell it.) If you're holding it through a third party there are storage costs too. You'd be better putting your money in BHP or Rio Tinto at least they pay dividends on the metals they mine and sell, and if the price of metals rises so does the stock price and their profits which comes back to you in the dividend.

I guess I am still in the accumilation phase, my strategy may change later on - although apart from annuities I'll probably just start taking the dividends rather than compounding.

Anyway as is by now probably patently obvious I am no expert, it's just my own strategy and it seems to be working so far.

The benefit of gold is that it compensates when markets are crashing- if this happens and all your funds and stocks go down at least you can sell your gold which normally jumps up in those situations. gold mining company stocks don't always reflect gold prices and in fact I believe they performed poorly during the last 24 months when gold prices peaked.

[how241]

I follow the following:

1) Never use foreign/farang financial advisers who are based in Thailand; never use advisers who cold call.

2) Split your portfolio - 10% gold; @30% in long term 'secure' stocks to leave for 5-20 years i.e. blue chip US dividend stocks (reinvest the dividends in the stock) and Mutual Funds; @35% actively managed stocks (good for those of us who like to use technical analysis, follow market more closely) and corporate bonds; 25% cash.

3) Try and buy one or two rental properties as part of your portfolio.

4) Try and line up some secure income streams for retirement- i.e. a defined benefit pension, govt pension or annuity (likely/hopefully rates will improve in next few years significantly for annuities) . The stress of having to retire with a fixed pot of money and estimate how long you will live for is terrible plus when you are old and feeble you wont be able to manage your investments so well (plus who - apart from some on thaivisa ha- wants to spend their retirement online reaching investments to ensure a steady income flow!?). So for those with big enough portfolios and without a steady pension- 200-400k$ into annuities will give @1-2,200 $ per month, guaranteed till you die and this can be part of a good solid income foundation for any retirement.

Some good ideas here. Thanks

[scobie redux]

Expatj.....sound advice...

But..."200-400k$ into annuities will give @1-2,200 $ per month, guaranteed till you die and this can be part of a good solid income foundation for any retirement."

What if the company that sold you the annuities with a guaranteed income goes bankrupt????

Can't speak for the US, but in the UK annuities are protected under the FSCS. If your provider goes broke, the first GBP2000 of your pension income is fully paid and the balance is covered 90%.

[scobie redux]

Agreed....So what is YOUR idea of the best investment? Kinda wanted to hear other people's thoughts on what the Best investment was as we are all in different circumstances...

My strategy just kind of happened . . I didn't plan it, but it's one I'm comfortable with.

I've quietly built up my retirement funds over the years, and my investments are broadly split into what I call my liquid funds and my tied up assets.

My liquid assets include very liquid savings which I consider my 'don't mess with' fund, and that is sitting in various term deposits back in NZ, earning around 6-7% per annum. That represents around 66% of my investable liquid assets, and I will do nothing to put that stake at risk. If all else fails, it's my go to fund. At 49, it's money I can't afford to lose.

Another 20% is invested across a range of relatively high risk managed funds - shares, emerging market bonds etc. I'm happy to play the markets with this money.

The remaining 14% is currently in cash, and I need to do something with it. I'm looking at options. This could be in the form of a small business, or I might decide to just put it in shares also. I haven't decided yet.

The tied up asset part is my personal pension plan which I can't access until I'm 55, and my property in Thailand, which generates a rental income for me and which I might live in again in future.

This has worked for me. I could no doubt make it all work harder, but I don't have the time to spend on it right now.

[bocceball1]

For me I'm in Real Estate partnerships (Not REIT's) with close friends and family. Some of the properties are Triple Net Leases (ie the tenant pays for the taxes, Repairs, Insurance....basicly everything....Need no Managers) some are Apartment complexes (have professional management). Bought into most of them between 20 and 40 years ago...So loans all paid off ....

One particularly sweet deal was one where the owner of a 20 unit apartment complex (Near silicon Valley) sold to us for No Money down. The cash flow in the beginning was a small negative (made up by the depreciation AND interest expense write-off) Paid off 10 years ago so now all free cash flow.

If we really were aggressive about it we could've sold and done a 1031 exchange (tax free sale) to bigger properties.

But were all happy ....Not Greedy....

Greed is what gets many in trouble....."if its too good to be true....WATCH OUT!

[Naam]

What advice do you have? What do you think is the Best investment? Please make the difference between young investors and old retired investors?

my advice for young investors:

"don't touch any stocks. if you have the urge to gamble go to Vegas, Monte Carlo, Macau or Singapore. if you want to invest, buy bonds."

my advice for old retired investors:

"don't touch any stocks. if you have the urge to gamble go to Vegas, Monte Carlo, Macau or Singapore. if you want to invest, buy bonds."

note: there's a remote island located in the North Sea. it's a kingdom, they have a queen and once they even had a queen who was promoted and became an empress. the natives of this kingdom speak a language that varies. most of these varieties are not understood by foreigners who studied that language. the basic nourishment and foamless beer liquid the natives ingest can only be called "unspeakable atrocities".

the capital of this island kingdom is the second most important financial center of planet Earth and most probable the most important financial center for bond trading. that calls for the question why hardly any natives who emigrated to the Land of Smiles have no or a wrong idea what a bond is.

[Jasun]

Diversification should extend beyond a mix of asset classes, covering currencies also. Some assets held in your home currency, some in baht, and others in a third major currency.

[ghworker2010]

What is the difference between Thailand and a casino... In a casino at least you have the chance of not losing your money.

We have all read it on this forum many times by members: dont invest anything in thailand that you can't afford to lose and walk away from.

Personally, Im leaving my money and assets (my income stream) back in my country as I sleep better at night!

[SOTIRIOS]

Expatj.....sound advice...

But..."200-400k$ into annuities will give @1-2,200 $ per month, guaranteed till you die and this can be part of a good solid income foundation for any retirement."

What if the company that sold you the annuities with a guaranteed income goes bankrupt????

...100k .....blocked funds in an account in your name....in a Top 10-25 World Bank.....

........can reap you at least 5% per week...which you can withdraw weekly....

...worth investigating....I can give you the Compliance Officer's contact details...an American with a 25 year track record....

[bocceball1]

Expatj.....sound advice...

But..."200-400k$ into annuities will give @1-2,200 $ per month, guaranteed till you die and this can be part of a good solid income foundation for any retirement."

What if the company that sold you the annuities with a guaranteed income goes bankrupt????

...100k .....blocked funds in an account in your name....in a Top 10-25 World Bank.....

........can reap you at least 5% per week...which you can withdraw weekly....

...worth investigating....I can give you the Compliance Officer's contact details...an American with a 25 year track record....

Bernie Madoff ...by chance?

[Naam]

Expatj.....sound advice...

But..."200-400k$ into annuities will give @1-2,200 $ per month, guaranteed till you die and this can be part of a good solid income foundation for any retirement."

What if the company that sold you the annuities with a guaranteed income goes bankrupt????

the advice would be sound if annuities existed which yield 6.00 - 6.60%

any financial institution which sells nowadays annuities and promises the above-mentioned yield can't go bankrupt. it is already bankrupt!

[scobie redux]

Expatj.....sound advice...

But..."200-400k$ into annuities will give @1-2,200 $ per month, guaranteed till you die and this can be part of a good solid income foundation for any retirement."

What if the company that sold you the annuities with a guaranteed income goes bankrupt????

the advice would be sound if annuities existed which yield 6.00 - 6.60%

any financial institution which sells nowadays annuities and promises the above-mentioned yield can't go bankrupt. it is already bankrupt!

Not necessarily true. It will depend on a lot of factors including age, health, expected longevity, inflation-linked, single income or spouse benefits etc. 6000 income on a 100000 pension pot is not that uncommon in the UK.

[Wolf001]

Lower your technological sights and think older world economy.

I like your idea of convenience store. Ensure your building can hold stock free of being water damaged or vermin damaged. Ensure you have excellent security also. Ensure your staff are trained with proper policies and procedures. Do a blend of 7 eleven, small fresh section and broader staple foods such as rice, flour etc, etc. (long lasting food stuffs) and small coffee snack cafe - maned by one or two persons for entire shop - simple/small but yummy menu .

I have a client in Australia that has done this style of business in Yeppoon, QLD. He has 100k of stock and sits on it and sells if off. He also has live stock feed from the side of the business. Uses the profit for daily living and top up the cash. He is sitting at about 260k average per year profit. Because he has access to food he is living at wholesale rate.

Thailand is begging for a proper eat street. Perhaps if you have the capital you could build your shop and a few others beside yours and you will get that rental income also. http://www.limassolmunicipal.com.cy/franklin/block-e-ground-floor-level-shops.jpg

http://www.landcorp.com.au/_image/RWV-Cafe-Strip-at-Beach.jpg

I would also drop some into gold and silver. Make a trip to Beijing and buy some certificated gold so you can move it easy if you need.

The world is about to have a massive problem with digital get everything out of that into tangibles.

I have started to do this myself. I am sure in the long run I will be sitting better then my friends with shares and investment portfolios running on speculation.

I am a small business to corporate and marketing consultant. I also help with business plans. I am fresh to Thailand only 1 year but learnt a lot and have corporate clients in Sydney paying my bills here.

If you want to have a chat - I am here shamelessly plugging myself - hehehe

[rgs2001uk]

What advice do you have? What do you think is the Best investment? Please make the difference between young investors and old retired investors?

my advice for young investors:

"don't touch any stocks. if you have the urge to gamble go to Vegas, Monte Carlo, Macau or Singapore. if you want to invest, buy bonds."

my advice for old retired investors:

"don't touch any stocks. if you have the urge to gamble go to Vegas, Monte Carlo, Macau or Singapore. if you want to invest, buy bonds."

note: there's a remote island located in the North Sea. it's a kingdom, they have a queen and once they even had a queen who was promoted and became an empress. the natives of this kingdom speak a language that varies. most of these varieties are not understood by foreigners who studied that language. the basic nourishment and foamless beer liquid the natives ingest can only be called "unspeakable atrocities".

the capital of this island kingdom is the second most important financial center of planet Earth and most probable the most important financial center for bond trading. that calls for the question why hardly any natives who emigrated to the Land of Smiles have no or a wrong idea what a bond is.

the natives of this kingdom speak a language that varies. most of these varieties are not understood by foreigners who studied that language

And in that green and pleasant the natives also have difficulty understanding the natives of the same kingdom who we are told also speak the same language.

[Naam]

Expatj.....sound advice...

But..."200-400k$ into annuities will give @1-2,200 $ per month, guaranteed till you die and this can be part of a good solid income foundation for any retirement."

What if the company that sold you the annuities with a guaranteed income goes bankrupt????

the advice would be sound if annuities existed which yield 6.00 - 6.60%

any financial institution which sells nowadays annuities and promises the above-mentioned yield can't go bankrupt. it is already bankrupt!

Not necessarily true. It will depend on a lot of factors including age, health, expected longevity, inflation-linked, single income or spouse benefits etc. 6000 income on a 100000 pension pot is not that uncommon in the UK.

that might apply to an old fart, heavy smoker, having a history of three heart attacks and an average life expectancy of less than a dozen years.

if you disagree please provide a link to any financial institution that provides nowadays annuities yielding 6%.