What the hell is the matter with people?

[loong]

As others have said; you placed the child in the care of a relative, that relative decided to take her, and his own child, out. They later all returned home perfectly safe.

You say that your wife wasn't informed because they knew the girl would be back home before your wife was. Did they know your location, what you were doing and when you'd be back?

You say a phone call later confirmed the girl's location. Phone call to whom? Her? The uncle? If you were so worried, why didn't you make that call before doing anything else?

Kidnapping? Don't be ridiculous.

If the same happened in the UK and you reported it to the police the only question is whether or not they'd do you for wasting police time; after they'd stopped laughing.

I hope that you have learned your lesson. If this sort of thing worries you so much then every time your step daughter goes out tell her to phone you, or get a responsible adult to phone you if she doesn't have a phone, if her plans change.

" Did they know your location, what you were doing and when you'd be back?"

My daughter knows that I will only be either at home or in my garden. If I go out somewhere different, I will go and tell her what I am doing, so that she doesn't come home to an empty house.

"You say a phone call later confirmed the girl's location. "

It didn't occur to me that her uncle would take her out without informing me. Sometimes, when I take my daughter out, if one of her friends wants to come as well, I will go and check that it is ok with the parents.

Only last week, I took my daughter and the same cousin out and I made sure that the uncle knew that his son was going out with us.

I may have been over-dramatic, using the word kidnap, but the UK police would not be laughing as they are aware that in most cases of child abuse, it is from a family member.

I am not saying that this is the case here, because the uncle is a good man, just in this case, thoughtless.

[hellodolly]

In before some self righteous farang says all thais don't care about you and ignore the fact that ppl from their countries do the same thing too.

I can only speak for the UK and i can tell you that nobody would take a child out somewhere without informing and getting permission from the parent or guardian. To do so would be considered as kidnapping!

Please give examples of the countries that people take children out without informing the parents or guardian where it would be considered normal or acceptable.

"I can only speak for the UK and i can tell you that nobody would take a child out somewhere without informing and getting permission from the parent or guardian. To do so would be considered as kidnapping!"

And in the UK if a family member did something you considered thoughtless but not with bad intentions, would you or your wife speak to him calmly, explaining why you felt upset, or would you go on some local message board announcing to a host of strangers that this relative was a kidnapper?

It's impossible to say, since we don't know about your family situation or the relationship you have with the person who went off with your step-daughter, but unless you have a history of being ignored and disrespected, it was probably just a misunderstanding. Misunderstandings tend to occur in the absence of communication. Communication takes at least two people. If your step-daughter doesn't know enough to keep you informed of her whereabouts or others in your family don't realize how hyper you can get, maybe you need to inform them. The fact that you feel the need to vent on a public forum suggests there's room for improvement or that you're grasping for sympathy that's missing closer to home.

You have said a lot here. I look back on my own child hood growing up in Seattle most of the time my parents didn't know where I was they would say diner is at what ever and out the door I would go. If they needed me Mom would yell at the top of her voice and some times I would be out of range.

Life there is not that way now but to a large degree it is not that far away from what it is here in Thailand. If you are going to bring your honest fears in a western culture and impose them on a culture where the family is the core unit no questions asked you are bound for disappointment.

[little mary sunshine]

You say she is 8 y/o. Old enough for you and her to have a talk

and tell her if she decides to go anywhere other than where she

is supposed to be ....she is to call you immediately; not for

permission to go with a relative, but for you to know where she

is....if this happens again she is grounded for a couple of days,

at 8 y/o she should be responsible enough to inform you.

[jackflash]

Twenty years ago in my culture (rural Australia) this behavior would be pretty normal.

Kids rambled around the countryside and no one worried much, unless they didn't come home at night.

If you don't believe me, read some of the early children's books (Swallows and Amazons, etc)!

I can remember many times disappearing with my grandfather to go fishing and no one got concerned.

Or I would jump on my bike by myself and head way out into the bush to go rabbit shooting.

These days are different. We worry endlessly about our kids and whether they are safe.

They are not even allowed to walk to school.

In Thailand many communities are still very relaxed and are much like we were way back then.

Edited October 15, 2013 by jackflash

[lastbastion]

To many Thais you wouldnt even be considered "family", whereas the Uncle is and why would anyone report to you ? I know this as I was in the same situation, 8 years ago none of my now family could speak Engkish and I spoke little Thai, no one in the family has ever telephoned me, only the wife, everything goes through her, its not a deliberate bypass its just easier for them to communicate that way.

Although I am far from fluent, I do speak Thai. Communication is not a problem.

But I do understand what you are saying. I am an outsider, and do not need to be considered

I doubt that a Thai father would have been advised either.

[jackflash]

A friend of mine is constantly in a rage because his wife goes out and he doesn't know where she is.

FWIW, the wife is a lovely lady and totally loving and loyal, it's just that "nipping out to the shop" in Thailand means stopping and talking to family,

going to the market, having a bite to eat, visiting the Temple, and soon two or three hours have gone by.

My friend is constantly ringing her on her mobile phone with some lame excuse like "buy some milk please".

The only way she can get any peace is to switch her phone off, which of course drives him crazy.

He is constantly buying her new phones, because "Telephone battery flat I tink".

The truth is that he's a control freak. He sits in his air conditioned room and never goes out.

And of course hates it when his wife goes out.

Edited October 15, 2013 by jackflash

[flyingdoc]

Your correspondents are right!

A farang particularly could not and should not take a child however close, without the parents express agreement!

[jackflash]

> A farang particularly could not and should not take a child however close, without the parents express agreement!

What are you on about?

I don't think the girl's Uncle is a Farang.

(or was this was a weak attempt at irony?)

Edited October 15, 2013 by jackflash

[Konini]

In before some self righteous farang says all thais don't care about you and ignore the fact that ppl from their countries do the same thing too.

I can only speak for the UK and i can tell you that nobody would take a child out somewhere without informing and getting permission from the parent or guardian. To do so would be considered as kidnapping!

Please give examples of the countries that people take children out without informing the parents or guardian where it would be considered normal or acceptable.

I saw this in Indonesia and it seemed to be the norm. In the village everybody young was introduced as "my brother/sister" and everybody older was "my aunty/uncle". It freaked me out a bit as I felt as though I, as the oldest amongst the group testing out their English, would be held responsible for them going missing for 9 or 10 hours. Then I realised that as a youngster in a village in England I too would be missing for hours, always out with friends or 'helping' someone in their garden or going to the shops for the old people. My parents wouldn't have a clue where I was and never seemed concerned - the only time I got into trouble was if it were dark by the time I got home.

Times have changed in the west, but it seems not everywhere in the world is so paranoid.

For us, it was wrong of the uncle to take her without telling anybody, but in village-mentality it's more a case of 'what's the problem?'. It's a very different culture and I suppose that as we choose to live here, we have to accept it.

[amykat]

Details, details. Of significance for you. Not for him. Communication !

The Grand Father also considered it wrong to take my daughter without informing me.

Nothing to do with communication

Hi Loong,

I have also had this problem is so many ways and forms ...it is simply baffling to me ...and I am not a step-parent, and am the mother, and the only parent my child lives with.

I was at first dumbfounded, when my child was only 4-5 years old, and people would call our house, ask to speak to her, and then "ask her" if she would like to see them and tell her "okay, I will come pick you up tomorrow at 10 am, or I will come pick you up in 10 minutes". These are sort of relatives, not MY relatives, not MY friends, it is complicated to explain. But who in their right mind makes plans with a kid that age, without asking a parent?

One time, a parent from school, invited my child to a birthday dinner, after school,...they called someone who works for me, who told them yes, sure, and then totally neglected to tell me. I was waiting at home, for the school bus. Sometimes they can be very late, due to traffic which has grown a lot lately. I was seriously worried she was in a crash, or the bus broke down, etc. Eventually, some people, in a very nice SUV pulled up and delivered my kid. I was shocked, didn't know who they were, why they drove her home, and then they said they had a birthday dinner at KFC with all her class, and apparently my worker person had told them they would have to drive her home after. So, they went the extra mile to drive her home, we never got their kid a gift, because nobody ever told me, and I was pretty rude and not very thankful, because I was so confused at the time, about what the hell was going on!!

My worker person, who happens to be a man, not sure if this is part of the reason he normally does things like this, but there is a pattern of he does do things like this, for YEARS now, no matter what I say. I think he considers it beneath his station in life to have to report to me, or inform me or ask me, anything at all. Or actually do anything the ways I like. A problem I have with many workers/helpers here. I am a female and often think that male workers especially apply the "men are higher than women, or we would like to pretend so, and certainly higher than farang women"? But they certainly don't spurn the money or benefits they get from me ...but they do try to pretend it is all worthless to them, and not really needed and sort of an insult at the same time. Does that make sense? I have had this attitude develop over time with people working for me.

Sometimes I think it is similar to the training or lack of training in the culture here, like when people you are with, walk in front of you, open a door, sqeeze in, and then slam it in your face. Or how they ask if you want food, as they are going to the noodle shop, and then return 4-8 hours later with your soup ...they ate while at the shop, then went on to do hours of errands or visiting friends, and you thought they would be back in 30 mintues, to eat together. Or even if they come right back, they ate first!

I mean, really, I just can't understand people here, for the most part. I have lived here for 9 years now. Recently the same helper person came over, and I showed him a wardrobe that I want to move out for extra space, and offered to give it to him. He has several rental properties and is always looking and liking my free furniture. What did he say? "Oh, so difficult, I will have to get 4 or 5 guys and a truck (his father has a truck) and it will be so difficult to take, blah, blah.

Me, a lady, I could take it apart with a screw driver, and put it in the road, any guy or even me, could lift the pieces into a truck bed. Not so difficult. Then I offered him a bike for his 3 year old kid ...that he asked me for before. And he said only "It is broken" and walked away. The mud flap, I guess you call it, has a piece missing out of it, that is all. So I said, "well you can go to Tesco and pay 2000 baht or more and have a perfect one, or have this one". No answer, walks away like I have insulted him. Then I showed him a 2000 baht "Winnie the Pooh" computer/educational phone,, and offered him that, and he said, it is broken? Does it work, can I prove it? The batteries were dead, but it works fine. Then we moved on to the 6 giant bags of clothes for his wife, and he said "she is too fat for those clothes and I am late for work and can't look at them now ...over and over again. Then he said he couldn't take them now, he was too busy. Would not even look at the clothes. I tried to get him to take at least one bag, because I was cleaning out things and wanted them gone. Then there were a few other things, the recylcing, "oh, he is too busy and that isn't enough money for him to deal with! But the male leather jacket, oh, he could take that now, and a motorbike helmet, and some shoes, and some crap I put in the garbage, he went though it and took it all! The motorbike helmet I have offered him several times, it is a good farang one, for over 6 years. He always says he wants it, but leaves it at my house. So this day, I put it in the steet, and he picked it up off the street like garbage and took it!

A few weeks have passed, and I ended up finding better people to give my clothes to, one that is the correct size, and will appreciate them, so I did it. Worker man comes over and sees my living room is no longer stacked up with a truck load of stuff I offered to give him, and he has a prissy fit, and can't understand why I gave them to anyone else. Then refuses to help me on my current projects, which are all late due to his apathy and refusal to so anything before the very last, drop dead date, which then gets pushed out, because "unforseen things have happened and he got busy".

I guess I have gone a bit off-topic here, sorry. I have had a huge, weird, amount of people not showing up lately, having bizarre excuses, and I just am a bit pissed off lately. One of my daughter's friends, demanded to be paid, "20-30 baht" while we were making cakes, and cupcakes, for the "work she did" which consisted of me showing her how to butter a cake pan, and sharing in the "mixing of the cake batter" ..so she stirred for 30 seconds. I also made her lunch, gave her a bag of nice clothes that fit her, we tried them all on, and she has no nice clothes ..and we were going to do some art projects later, which cost me money ...and she told my daughter, that she is never coming here again, after 3-4 years of playing here, and eating here, because I wouldn't pay her for her "work" ...she is 9 years old!! I wanted her to come because I got another 2 bags of nice clothes for her too!

So, yes, with the OP, I am all into the "What the hell is the matter with people"?? I am ready to be told what it is.

[slipperylobster]

Being the last in the loop is kind of liking being the smallest of 9 puppies. Sucking hind titty all the time, getting nudged out of the way, or ignored. Having to suckle right next to the old Chocolate factory. I sympathize, as many others probably do. Really hurts when they come around at 0-baht-30 looking for handouts, while you are still trying to figure out whats for dinner.

[Khun Jean]

They just do not care here.

It is in their genetic code....

I hope that you not mean care of children.

I have never seen people more protective of their children then Thais.

They are brought to school, picked up from school. Never go out alone.

Almost never visit friends houses etc..

Especially girls.

[amykat]

If you want to know how much people care for you and how much ?

Count your money,the more money ,the more respect ,but only if you share it

with them .

For the rest dont believe in fairytales.

I'm not sure it is more respect that you get. But you surely get more of something at first. But after they are used to what you give, things change!

There are no more thank yous, in many cases ...and there is no memory of what you already gave, way and above the call of duty. When I said to someone recently, "what about the XYZ things I did before" the answer was "I don't like to think about the past" Oh, so very convenient of you, because if you looked at the past, you would see only debts you owe.

And the promises you made that never arrived. Oh, yes, that is the past, let us all forget that, who cares? Only the people left in debt care!

There is mostly no reciprical behavior here, and the Thai people who live like that, seem to pride themselves on the lack of it! And are most insulted if you bring it up!

[dao16]

Details, details. Of significance for you. Not for him. Communication !

The Grand Father also considered it wrong to take my daughter without informing me.

Nothing to do with communication

Hi Loong,

I have also had this problem is so many ways and forms ...it is simply baffling to me ...and I am not a step-parent, and am the mother, and the only parent my child lives with.

I was at first dumbfounded, when my child was only 4-5 years old, and people would call our house, ask to speak to her, and then "ask her" if she would like to see them and tell her "okay, I will come pick you up tomorrow at 10 am, or I will come pick you up in 10 minutes". These are sort of relatives, not MY relatives, not MY friends, it is complicated to explain. But who in their right mind makes plans with a kid that age, without asking a parent?

One time, a parent from school, invited my child to a birthday dinner, after school,...they called someone who works for me, who told them yes, sure, and then totally neglected to tell me. I was waiting at home, for the school bus. Sometimes they can be very late, due to traffic which has grown a lot lately. I was seriously worried she was in a crash, or the bus broke down, etc. Eventually, some people, in a very nice SUV pulled up and delivered my kid. I was shocked, didn't know who they were, why they drove her home, and then they said they had a birthday dinner at KFC with all her class, and apparently my worker person had told them they would have to drive her home after. So, they went the extra mile to drive her home, we never got their kid a gift, because nobody ever told me, and I was pretty rude and not very thankful, because I was so confused at the time, about what the hell was going on!!

My worker person, who happens to be a man, not sure if this is part of the reason he normally does things like this, but there is a pattern of he does do things like this, for YEARS now, no matter what I say. I think he considers it beneath his station in life to have to report to me, or inform me or ask me, anything at all. Or actually do anything the ways I like. A problem I have with many workers/helpers here. I am a female and often think that male workers especially apply the "men are higher than women, or we would like to pretend so, and certainly higher than farang women"? But they certainly don't spurn the money or benefits they get from me ...but they do try to pretend it is all worthless to them, and not really needed and sort of an insult at the same time. Does that make sense? I have had this attitude develop over time with people working for me.

Sometimes I think it is similar to the training or lack of training in the culture here, like when people you are with, walk in front of you, open a door, sqeeze in, and then slam it in your face. Or how they ask if you want food, as they are going to the noodle shop, and then return 4-8 hours later with your soup ...they ate while at the shop, then went on to do hours of errands or visiting friends, and you thought they would be back in 30 mintues, to eat together. Or even if they come right back, they ate first!

I mean, really, I just can't understand people here, for the most part. I have lived here for 9 years now. Recently the same helper person came over, and I showed him a wardrobe that I want to move out for extra space, and offered to give it to him. He has several rental properties and is always looking and liking my free furniture. What did he say? "Oh, so difficult, I will have to get 4 or 5 guys and a truck (his father has a truck) and it will be so difficult to take, blah, blah.

Me, a lady, I could take it apart with a screw driver, and put it in the road, any guy or even me, could lift the pieces into a truck bed. Not so difficult. Then I offered him a bike for his 3 year old kid ...that he asked me for before. And he said only "It is broken" and walked away. The mud flap, I guess you call it, has a piece missing out of it, that is all. So I said, "well you can go to Tesco and pay 2000 baht or more and have a perfect one, or have this one". No answer, walks away like I have insulted him. Then I showed him a 2000 baht "Winnie the Pooh" computer/educational phone,, and offered him that, and he said, it is broken? Does it work, can I prove it? The batteries were dead, but it works fine. Then we moved on to the 6 giant bags of clothes for his wife, and he said "she is too fat for those clothes and I am late for work and can't look at them now ...over and over again. Then he said he couldn't take them now, he was too busy. Would not even look at the clothes. I tried to get him to take at least one bag, because I was cleaning out things and wanted them gone. Then there were a few other things, the recylcing, "oh, he is too busy and that isn't enough money for him to deal with! But the male leather jacket, oh, he could take that now, and a motorbike helmet, and some shoes, and some crap I put in the garbage, he went though it and took it all! The motorbike helmet I have offered him several times, it is a good farang one, for over 6 years. He always says he wants it, but leaves it at my house. So this day, I put it in the steet, and he picked it up off the street like garbage and took it!

A few weeks have passed, and I ended up finding better people to give my clothes to, one that is the correct size, and will appreciate them, so I did it. Worker man comes over and sees my living room is no longer stacked up with a truck load of stuff I offered to give him, and he has a prissy fit, and can't understand why I gave them to anyone else. Then refuses to help me on my current projects, which are all late due to his apathy and refusal to so anything before the very last, drop dead date, which then gets pushed out, because "unforseen things have happened and he got busy".

I guess I have gone a bit off-topic here, sorry. I have had a huge, weird, amount of people not showing up lately, having bizarre excuses, and I just am a bit pissed off lately. One of my daughter's friends, demanded to be paid, "20-30 baht" while we were making cakes, and cupcakes, for the "work she did" which consisted of me showing her how to butter a cake pan, and sharing in the "mixing of the cake batter" ..so she stirred for 30 seconds. I also made her lunch, gave her a bag of nice clothes that fit her, we tried them all on, and she has no nice clothes ..and we were going to do some art projects later, which cost me money ...and she told my daughter, that she is never coming here again, after 3-4 years of playing here, and eating here, because I wouldn't pay her for her "work" ...she is 9 years old!! I wanted her to come because I got another 2 bags of nice clothes for her too!

So, yes, with the OP, I am all into the "What the hell is the matter with people"?? I am ready to be told what it is.

This seems like a different problem completely, but I did want to comment on the one I have experienced (and had explained by my wife and seen again with those new eyes).

Giving things away to people in Thailand is very problematic, which seems weird since people ask foreigners for all kinds of stuff. It seems to all roll back to the face thing again, but, instead of getting into that, I will just give the major example that freaked me out.

I was on a train, drinking a beer (as I am known to do). not drunk. Just having a beer and reading a book. I had to order another bucket of ice for the last beer, but I didn't come close to finishing the ice. Some people had just sat down. They ordered a pepsi for the kids and then I heard them say they should get ice. I had already finished my beer and told them that they could have the ice I had ordered (it was still really full--plenty to deal with several bottles of pepsi). They declined and seemed embarrassed, although not overtly angry. I just said "ok...you should really just use that...I am going to sleep now." I heard them order ice as I was walking away.

Have told this story to my wife and many other Thais since then, and they all say the same thing: if they take your ice, it is like you are putting them on a lower level, status-wise, so they don't take it. They might even have used the ice when you (I) left, but didn't want to be seen getting "sloppy seconds" from anyone.

Thais are actually shocked when I tell them that it would be the opposite reaction, for the most part, where I am from. People would actually think "what a nice guy!" Not here.

[nonthaburial]

OP you are not and never will be the natural father, yes I am sure you love this kid and paying for all you can. Natural mother didn't seemed concerned, but you are agitated ! I wonder if you are a little insecure with you life's arrangements

[Khun Jean]

So, yes, with the OP, I am all into the "What the hell is the matter with people"?? I am ready to be told what it is.

That was a long post and i understand the situation that you find yourself in as it sound very familiar. I am male by the way and had this treatment for a little while.

The question is: "What the hell is wrong with you?"

Fix the problem, don't accept how you are treated.

Change your surroundings, whatever it takes.

Associating with idiots will make your live worse and you have zero chance to change them.

[amykat]

Nonthaburial ...

Maybe the OP is trying to act like a normal father, as a good man would! And he is distressed at the diffrences in culture, which seem to us, to be insults ..and might really be...who knows? Some people maybe don't know better, and some people do, but are happy to insult the farang, because maybe they are jealous or whatever. Maybe the Thai people can't even consider, in their wildest dreams, that a step-parent, much less those "crazy farangs" could care for their kids as much as them, or in some cases, maybe more!!

Maybe they cannot realize that rules take an effort and show love for the child. Just handing over a candy or cookie, every time the child is distressed, isn't always best for the child? Saying yes to everything isn't best for the child.

Another thing, on topic I think with the OP, is Thai people always saying "but the child wanted this or that" as an excuse for whatever they did. Like my "other relatives, sort of" letting a 3 year old, decide what she will eat, all day and night, decide when she will go to sleep (3 am) then decide that she can't go to school, "because she is too tired to wake up" and etc, etc. They really seem to think that once a child pops out of the womb and can express what they like or don't like, that they are obliged to follow that!

I know all Thai parents aren't like that, but a good majority seem to be that way. I can't tell you how many times I have been told, that my 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 year old, picked what we would eat, when we will eat, what we should buy, where we should go, etc. I am not in the custom of asking toddlers what they would like to do this weekend, or while we visit Singapore, what we should visit, what hotel we should stay at, what event we should visit, etc.

Hey, 3 year old, "should we clean the floors today or eat candy all day" Oh, eat candy all day! Well you said it, so I guess we have to do it ...this is the kind of BS I have been exposed to, basically by everyone I have ever had contact with, that had something to do with my child. I wonder why they go to school, because if you ask them, they will say NO. Oh, my worker, in the old days, worked that out, by telling my kid each day, that they were not going to school, but going swimming, her favorite thing. And then she would freak out because she wasn't arriving at a swimming pool. But driver man thought that was a great idea, the lie, and I didn't find out for a long time that this was going on.

One really has to consider seriously if they want Thai people involved with their kids. I mean, yes, if one of the parents is Thai, well you have no choice. But I used to have a lot of "help" and it really was bad for my child, and I had to stop having so much help and do things myself.

[dao16]

Nonthaburial ...

Maybe the OP is trying to act like a normal father, as a good man would! And he is distressed at the diffrences in culture, which seem to us, to be insults ..and might really be...who knows? Some people maybe don't know better, and some people do, but are happy to insult the farang, because maybe they are jealous or whatever. Maybe the Thai people can't even consider, in their wildest dreams, that a step-parent, much less those "crazy farangs" could care for their kids as much as them, or in some cases, maybe more!!

Maybe they cannot realize that rules take an effort and show love for the child. Just handing over a candy or cookie, every time the child is distressed, isn't always best for the child? Saying yes to everything isn't best for the child.

Another thing, on topic I think with the OP, is Thai people always saying "but the child wanted this or that" as an excuse for whatever they did. Like my "other relatives, sort of" letting a 3 year old, decide what she will eat, all day and night, decide when she will go to sleep (3 am) then decide that she can't go to school, "because she is too tired to wake up" and etc, etc. They really seem to think that once a child pops out of the womb and can express what they like or don't like, that they are obliged to follow that!

I know all Thai parents aren't like that, but a good majority seem to be that way. I can't tell you how many times I have been told, that my 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 year old, picked what we would eat, when we will eat, what we should buy, where we should go, etc. I am not in the custom of asking toddlers what they would like to do this weekend, or while we visit Singapore, what we should visit, what hotel we should stay at, what event we should visit, etc.

Hey, 3 year old, "should we clean the floors today or eat candy all day" Oh, eat candy all day! Well you said it, so I guess we have to do it ...this is the kind of BS I have been exposed to, basically by everyone I have ever had contact with, that had something to do with my child. I wonder why they go to school, because if you ask them, they will say NO. Oh, my worker, in the old days, worked that out, by telling my kid each day, that they were not going to school, but going swimming, her favorite thing. And then she would freak out because she wasn't arriving at a swimming pool. But driver man thought that was a great idea, the lie, and I didn't find out for a long time that this was going on.

One really has to consider seriously if they want Thai people involved with their kids. I mean, yes, if one of the parents is Thai, well you have no choice. But I used to have a lot of "help" and it really was bad for my child, and I had to stop having so much help and do things myself.

You are just bringing up loads of things I have had to deal with as well. Luckily, my wife (who has lived abroad) understands when I put down my reasons for parenting the kids the way I want to. Not that I win on all fronts, but on important things, she usually (USUALLY) sees where I am coming from.

This "giving the kids what they want" thing was a massive thing we had to deal with several years ago. I will skip all anecdotes except for one, in which a 12-year-old was dictating transportation arrangements (ie., "you and auntie take the motorbike, and we will go in the car with the other motorbike in the back of the truck", and so on). People were taking her seriously, even though it didn't make any sense!!!

It took years of parenting to get rid of the tantrums and all that and now, I am pleased to say, we have a more or less civil and cool teenager who enjoys more freedom and agency than most of her friends, since she knows that there are boundaries. She is now willing to work within them and we talk to her like an adult, but with guidance. She is a teenager, so there are still rocky days/weeks, etc., but overall, those years of work have paid off.

There have been ugly moments, like walking her to school while she had a bloody nose because she hadn't slept all night and she was screaming at her mother (for a completely ridiculous reason I won't go into) or other nights she threw tantrums about trivial things (like not getting to do what she wanted RIGHT THEN because of torrential rains). Thank god that is years behind us, but I feel like we did the right thing, despite the pressures to just give in to everything.

In short, I feel your pain.

Edited October 15, 2013 by dao16

[amykat]

So, yes, with the OP, I am all into the "What the hell is the matter with people"?? I am ready to be told what it is.

That was a long post and i understand the situation that you find yourself in as it sound very familiar. I am male by the way and had this treatment for a little while.

The question is: "What the hell is wrong with you?"

Fix the problem, don't accept how you are treated.

Change your surroundings, whatever it takes.

Associating with idiots will make your live worse and you have zero chance to change them.

Hi Khun Jean,

I totally agree with you! I have been gradually, deleting all Thai people from our life and needs. I always feel better as time goes on without them. I just have a few areas that I am not totally independent and these areas get more difficult as the years pass.

I do not accept the way I am treated, and have tried various ways to approach certain problems. But that doesn't mean I found the good way, in fact I have never found the good way. I have found a way to anticipate 90% of problems that usually occur ...but there are always new issues I have no experience with, for example, kid to kid, friendships. But even that I can anticipate many problems, doesn't always work well with all situations.

Sometimes, like lately, I have had a bunch of weird situations happen, all having to do with my kid, and other kids, and their parents. I can only guess what are the real reasons for the problems. I only can say that my amount of time here has taught me, that whatever the problem is, nobody will really tell me the issue, they will lie about it. Then I am stuck trying to figure out what/why the lie might mean/represent. And that probably, mostly leads to the wrong guess/answer.

[geezer2]

She's 8 years old and he took her to work for him (as you state) WOW..

[7by7]

As others have said; you placed the child in the care of a relative, that relative decided to take her, and his own child, out. They later all returned home perfectly safe.

You say that your wife wasn't informed because they knew the girl would be back home before your wife was. Did they know your location, what you were doing and when you'd be back?

You say a phone call later confirmed the girl's location. Phone call to whom? Her? The uncle? If you were so worried, why didn't you make that call before doing anything else?

Kidnapping? Don't be ridiculous.

If the same happened in the UK and you reported it to the police the only question is whether or not they'd do you for wasting police time; after they'd stopped laughing.

I hope that you have learned your lesson. If this sort of thing worries you so much then every time your step daughter goes out tell her to phone you, or get a responsible adult to phone you if she doesn't have a phone, if her plans change.

Did they know your location, what you were doing and when you'd be back?"[/background]

My daughter knows that I will only be either at home or in my garden. If I go out somewhere different, I will go and tell her what I am doing, so that she doesn't come home to an empty house.

You say a phone call later confirmed the girl's location. "

It didn't occur to me that her uncle would take her out without informing me. Sometimes, when I take my daughter out, if one of her friends wants to come as well, I will go and check that it is ok with the parents.

Only last week, I took my daughter and the same cousin out and I made sure that the uncle knew that his son was going out with us.

I may have been over-dramatic, using the word kidnap, but the UK police would not be laughing as they are aware that in most cases of child abuse, it is from a family member.

I am not saying that this is the case here, because the uncle is a good man, just in this case, thoughtless.

Did the uncle know where you were?

Why didn't your daughter say to the uncle that she needed to tell you where she was going?

Why didn't you phone the uncle as soon as you found out that he and the two children weren't at home?

As many have already said, cultural differences mean that it didn't occur to your uncle that it was necessary for him to tell you; particularly as, from what you have said, they would be back before your wife got home from work and so, presumably, wouldn't be late.

I wouldn't be at all surprised were you to discover that this has happened before, only on those occasions she returned home before you missed her.

Yes, in most cases of child abuse the perpetrator is known to and often a relative of the victim; but the British, or any nation's, police taking an accusation of kidnap in this case seriously is, as I said, ridiculous.

Loong: Officer, my step-daughter's been kidnapped!

Police: That's very serious, let's get the details.

Loong: Well, she went to visit her cousin and her uncle took them both to his place of work.

Police: I see, and did you know she was going to this man's house?

Loong: Oh yes, she's been there many times before.

Police: Have you ever told her not to go there?

Loong: No.

Police: Where is she now?

Loong; He's brought her back home.

Police: I see. Now, has she mentioned anything untoward happening? This time or on any previous occasion? Is she in a strange mood; quieter than usual, looking unhappy, anything like that?

Loong: No, nothing like that; he's a good man. But he took her to his place of work without my permission! That's kidnap!

Police. So; let me get this straight. She visited this uncle's house, a place she's been many times before, with your knowledge and permission?

Loong: Yes.

Police: This time, he took her and his son some place else, but brought her back in good time?

Loong: Yes.

Police: And she is completely unharmed?

Loong: Yes.

Police show Loong the door whilst tearing up report form.

Edited October 15, 2013 by 7by7

[RogueLeader]

To many Thais you wouldnt even be considered "family", whereas the Uncle is and why would anyone report to you ? I know this as I was in the same situation, 8 years ago none of my now family could speak Engkish and I spoke little Thai, no one in the family has ever telephoned me, only the wife, everything goes through her, its not a deliberate bypass its just easier for them to communicate that way.

Although I am far from fluent, I do speak Thai. Communication is not a problem.

But I do understand what you are saying. I am an outsider, and do not need to be considered

And, you are not welcome, you are disliked, even to the point of being hated.

Thailand is the most xenophobic country on the planet.

You haven't been to Vietnam then.

[diyer]

Did you read all the posts 7by7 before making up that ridiculous scenario of events.

1. Loong already stated his comment about 'kidnapping' was overzealous.

2. The child went to visit uncles house. Maybe nobody was at home in which case the child would return.

Nobody was at home when Loong called, so he didn't know what had happened.

Since when was it a crime to be concerned or care for the safety of a child!

A child is a child, Thai, British, whatever.

[RogueLeader]

So, yes, with the OP, I am all into the "What the hell is the matter with people"?? I am ready to be told what it is.

That was a long post and i understand the situation that you find yourself in as it sound very familiar. I am male by the way and had this treatment for a little while.

The question is: "What the hell is wrong with you?"

Fix the problem, don't accept how you are treated.

Change your surroundings, whatever it takes.

Associating with idiots will make your live worse and you have zero chance to change them.

Hi Khun Jean,

I totally agree with you! I have been gradually, deleting all Thai people from our life and needs. I always feel better as time goes on without them. I just have a few areas that I am not totally independent and these areas get more difficult as the years pass.

I do not accept the way I am treated, and have tried various ways to approach certain problems. But that doesn't mean I found the good way, in fact I have never found the good way. I have found a way to anticipate 90% of problems that usually occur ...but there are always new issues I have no experience with, for example, kid to kid, friendships. But even that I can anticipate many problems, doesn't always work well with all situations.

Sometimes, like lately, I have had a bunch of weird situations happen, all having to do with my kid, and other kids, and their parents. I can only guess what are the real reasons for the problems. I only can say that my amount of time here has taught me, that whatever the problem is, nobody will really tell me the issue, they will lie about it. Then I am stuck trying to figure out what/why the lie might mean/represent. And that probably, mostly leads to the wrong guess/answer.

Do you think it's possible that you don't actually want to live in Thailand?

[benalibina]

So, yes, with the OP, I am all into the "What the hell is the matter with people"?? I am ready to be told what it is.

That was a long post and i understand the situation that you find yourself in as it sound very familiar. I am male by the way and had this treatment for a little while.

The question is: "What the hell is wrong with you?"

Fix the problem, don't accept how you are treated.

Change your surroundings, whatever it takes.

Associating with idiots will make your live worse and you have zero chance to change them.

Hi Khun Jean,

I totally agree with you! I have been gradually, deleting all Thai people from our life and needs. I always feel better as time goes on without them. I just have a few areas that I am not totally independent and these areas get more difficult as the years pass.

I do not accept the way I am treated, and have tried various ways to approach certain problems. But that doesn't mean I found the good way, in fact I have never found the good way. I have found a way to anticipate 90% of problems that usually occur ...but there are always new issues I have no experience with, for example, kid to kid, friendships. But even that I can anticipate many problems, doesn't always work well with all situations.

Sometimes, like lately, I have had a bunch of weird situations happen, all having to do with my kid, and other kids, and their parents. I can only guess what are the real reasons for the problems. I only can say that my amount of time here has taught me, that whatever the problem is, nobody will really tell me the issue, they will lie about it. Then I am stuck trying to figure out what/why the lie might mean/represent. And that probably, mostly leads to the wrong guess/answer.

Do you think it's possible that you don't actually want to live in Thailand?

Reading Amykat's comments, i wonder how you draw that conclusion. IMO there is no doubt about her desire to live in LOS. That she is on a way struggling, seeing her comments on this thread, is clear. She cares alot more than you make it look like. If not, she would not wrote extensively on this thread. Better would be for you to see her glass as halvefull instead of halfempty. Anyway, just my take on reading her comments.

[bangkokpoppys]

Details, details. Of significance for you. Not for him. Communication !

The Grand Father also considered it wrong to take my daughter without informing me.

Nothing to do with communication

If this is 1st time it happened i think you would not started this thread. Daughter lives under your roof and you are responsible. You expected apparantly something from somebody who did not think same as you. Empathy ! So to prevent this happening you need to communicate to set your rules.

This is the first time that it has happened.

To be honest, it never occurred to me that I should have to tell people that they should inform me if they decide to take her out for the day.

It's great to see that you care enough about this girl to be worried about her and alarmed at her being absent. I'm sure you'll find a way to communicate your needs. It wil be up to the receivers to then act differently in the future. Continue to live by your own values and don't compromise them, it's what makes you you.

[benalibina]

A reply of wisdom. Good 1.

Sent from my GT-P5100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Docno]

To many Thais you wouldnt even be considered "family", whereas the Uncle is and why would anyone report to you ? I know this as I was in the same situation, 8 years ago none of my now family could speak Engkish and I spoke little Thai, no one in the family has ever telephoned me, only the wife, everything goes through her, its not a deliberate bypass its just easier for them to communicate that way.

Although I am far from fluent, I do speak Thai. Communication is not a problem.

But I do understand what you are saying. I am an outsider, and do not need to be considered

And, you are not welcome, you are disliked, even to the point of being hated.

Thailand is the most xenophobic country on the planet.

Wow... someone's not having a good time there and should probably pack up their marbles and go home. What's it like to live somewhere where you're unwelcome and even hated?

[benalibina]

To many Thais you wouldnt even be considered "family", whereas the Uncle is and why would anyone report to you ? I know this as I was in the same situation, 8 years ago none of my now family could speak Engkish and I spoke little Thai, no one in the family has ever telephoned me, only the wife, everything goes through her, its not a deliberate bypass its just easier for them to communicate that way.

Although I am far from fluent, I do speak Thai. Communication is not a problem.

But I do understand what you are saying. I am an outsider, and do not need to be considered

And, you are not welcome, you are disliked, even to the point of being hated.

Thailand is the most xenophobic country on the planet.

Wow... someone's not having a good time there and should probably pack up their marbles and go home. What's it like to live somewhere where you're unwelcome and even hated?

Dreadfull !

[bunnydrops]

I would never tell someone how to raise their kids. But the west has become super paranoid. They live in their "tombs of the living" for years and never know any of their next door neighbors. They almost never walk on the street where they live but drive with their doors locked. They get their view of the world from TV news that is not noted for showing the bright side of anything. You don't trust your family, friends, neighbors to look after your kid? You didn't know where your kid was? Yes you did, she was with the family.