What the hell is the matter with people?

[loong]

They just do not care here.

It is in their genetic code....

I hope that you not mean care of children.

I have never seen people more protective of their children then Thais.

They are brought to school, picked up from school. Never go out alone.

Almost never visit friends houses etc..

Especially girls.

You live in a different environment to me.

The children in this village hardly ever seem to be at home

Lots of kids aged 4 and up out in the street letting off fireworks unsupervised as they have been doing for the last 2 weeks.

My daughter's friends are often at our house.

Most children walk to or from school without an adult.

[loong]

She's 8 years old and he took her to work for him (as you state) WOW..

I'm not sure what you are saying.

He tooke her to work WITH him, not FOR him. Ie to his place of work.

There the kids can play in the orchard behind the shop.

[loong]

As others have said; you placed the child in the care of a relative, that relative decided to take her, and his own child, out. They later all returned home perfectly safe.

You say that your wife wasn't informed because they knew the girl would be back home before your wife was. Did they know your location, what you were doing and when you'd be back?

You say a phone call later confirmed the girl's location. Phone call to whom? Her? The uncle? If you were so worried, why didn't you make that call before doing anything else?

Kidnapping? Don't be ridiculous.

If the same happened in the UK and you reported it to the police the only question is whether or not they'd do you for wasting police time; after they'd stopped laughing.

I hope that you have learned your lesson. If this sort of thing worries you so much then every time your step daughter goes out tell her to phone you, or get a responsible adult to phone you if she doesn't have a phone, if her plans change.

Did they know your location, what you were doing and when you'd be back?"[/background]

My daughter knows that I will only be either at home or in my garden. If I go out somewhere different, I will go and tell her what I am doing, so that she doesn't come home to an empty house.

You say a phone call later confirmed the girl's location. "

It didn't occur to me that her uncle would take her out without informing me. Sometimes, when I take my daughter out, if one of her friends wants to come as well, I will go and check that it is ok with the parents.

Only last week, I took my daughter and the same cousin out and I made sure that the uncle knew that his son was going out with us.

I may have been over-dramatic, using the word kidnap, but the UK police would not be laughing as they are aware that in most cases of child abuse, it is from a family member.

I am not saying that this is the case here, because the uncle is a good man, just in this case, thoughtless.

Did the uncle know where you were?

Why didn't your daughter say to the uncle that she needed to tell you where she was going?

Why didn't you phone the uncle as soon as you found out that he and the two children weren't at home?

As many have already said, cultural differences mean that it didn't occur to your uncle that it was necessary for him to tell you; particularly as, from what you have said, they would be back before your wife got home from work and so, presumably, wouldn't be late.

I wouldn't be at all surprised were you to discover that this has happened before, only on those occasions she returned home before you missed her.

Yes, in most cases of child abuse the perpetrator is known to and often a relative of the victim; but the British, or any nation's, police taking an accusation of kidnap in this case seriously is, as I said, ridiculous.

Loong: Officer, my step-daughter's been kidnapped!

Police: That's very serious, let's get the details.

Loong: Well, she went to visit her cousin and her uncle took them both to his place of work.

Police: I see, and did you know she was going to this man's house?

Loong: Oh yes, she's been there many times before.

Police: Have you ever told her not to go there?

Loong: No.

Police: Where is she now?

Loong; He's brought her back home.

Police: I see. Now, has she mentioned anything untoward happening? This time or on any previous occasion? Is she in a strange mood; quieter than usual, looking unhappy, anything like that?

Loong: No, nothing like that; he's a good man. But he took her to his place of work without my permission! That's kidnap!

Police. So; let me get this straight. She visited this uncle's house, a place she's been many times before, with your knowledge and permission?

Loong: Yes.

Police: This time, he took her and his son some place else, but brought her back in good time?

Loong: Yes.

Police: And she is completely unharmed?

Loong: Yes.

Police show Loong the door whilst tearing up report form.

Yes, the uncle would know where I will be.

I had no reason to telephone the uncle as she was with her cousin, not her uncle. When she went to her cousin's house, the uncle had already gone to work, it was just the 2 kids and the grandfather there. He returned home for some reason and decided to take both the kids back to work with him.

Your above scenario is totally ridiculous, I have already said in my first post that I calmed down once I knew that she was with her uncle.

[loong]

I would never tell someone how to raise their kids. But the west has become super paranoid. They live in their "tombs of the living" for years and never know any of their next door neighbors. They almost never walk on the street where they live but drive with their doors locked. They get their view of the world from TV news that is not noted for showing the bright side of anything. You don't trust your family, friends, neighbors to look after your kid? You didn't know where your kid was? Yes you did, she was with the family.

You obviously don't realise how independent Thai village children can be.

The only thing that I knew was that she was with her cousin and her grandfather earlier .

When I was looking for her, her grandfather did not know where either of them were.

[shaurene]

Stepdaughter,being the key.

No one cares what you think,its not your daughter.

Harsh maybe,reality certainly.

It is true, you are Falange you are only important for the money. I get it here in Khon Kaen. My wife's mother is good but she thinks she is the boss, we have a shop I setup for my wife who is very proud of it. Her mother makes a lot of decisions and I have told my wife, "You are the boss not Mamma" I pay the schooling and my wife's grandson who the boy thinks is his mother he is 10 she has took care of him since a baby, if he feels like not going to school my wife's mamma lets him stay off, I have had a number of disagreements with her Mum and told my wife to tell her Mum I pay his schooling and he must go to school it has worked a lot.

[sometimewoodworker]

Get your stepdaughter an iPhone then you can see where she always is using the "find my iPhone" program unless she turns it off. The phone uses GPS to report its location. If you don't want to do that then get her a phone so you can call her.

Not what I would do, but then I would not want to be that much in control of a child. If you can't trust the people they visit then don't let them visit. If you can ( and it seems you do) then trust them.

You can't keep children unless you let them go.

[Berkshire]

To many Thais you wouldnt even be considered "family", whereas the Uncle is and why would anyone report to you ? I know this as I was in the same situation, 8 years ago none of my now family could speak Engkish and I spoke little Thai, no one in the family has ever telephoned me, only the wife, everything goes through her, its not a deliberate bypass its just easier for them to communicate that way.

Although I am far from fluent, I do speak Thai. Communication is not a problem.

But I do understand what you are saying. I am an outsider, and do not need to be considered

And, you are not welcome, you are disliked, even to the point of being hated.

Thailand is the most xenophobic country on the planet.

If I can clarify your statement a bit. It's not that Thais hate foreigners. It's that they hate YOU. No need to apologize as this is a common misconception amongst farangs in Thailand. I hope that clears things up for the readership.

[FiftyTwo]

Since when was it a crime to be concerned or care for the safety of a child!

A child is a child, Thai, British, whatever.

Whilst being overly concerned about someone else's child is not actually a crime in the UK.

It is most definitely viewed with extreme suspicion by the authorities.

[FiftyTwo]

double post

Edited October 16, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[laolover88]

Two interesting comments

"Although I am far from fluent, I do speak Thai. Communication is not a problem."

Communication is clearly a problem...........I used, before my Thai was fluent and my wife's English OK, to have resort to sending SMSs from the kitchen to the living room to ensure there was 'understanding'

Reading all this suggests you have big conmmunication problems with wife, children, family...and communication is, of course, not only linguistic but involves expectations of understanding, shared attitudes etc.

"If I can clarify your statement a bit. It's not that Thais hate foreigners. It's that they hate YOU. No need to apologize as this is a common misconception amongst farangs in Thailand. I hope that clears things up for the readership."

I don't think that 'they', whoever they are, 'hate' you. It is much more complex. 'They' are unhappy with at least three things.

1.You have money which, however rich they may be, and however you deploy it, has a tendency to incite both jealousy and resentment

2.You are sleeping with a daughter, niece or whatever

3.You are just different. And you are difficult to accommodate within Thai family and cultural life. This means you have disrupted the social norms within which they live. This is by no means confined to Thailand. Someone mentioned Vietnam!! Wow..but also try a French or Welsh village...........It is of course very significant that for the most part we are talking about rural Thailand not BKK or CM.

A final thought...is not one of the most attractive aspects of Thai people and their culture that they are much more 'free' and 'independent' than other peoples?

[bbbbooboo]

Stupid IS what stupid DOES?

[bbbbooboo]

Stupid IS what stupid DOES?

[RogueLeader]

Stupid IS what stupid DOES?

Without any apparent irony.

[RogueLeader]

Hi Khun Jean,

I totally agree with you! I have been gradually, deleting all Thai people from our life and needs. I always feel better as time goes on without them. I just have a few areas that I am not totally independent and these areas get more difficult as the years pass.

I do not accept the way I am treated, and have tried various ways to approach certain problems. But that doesn't mean I found the good way, in fact I have never found the good way. I have found a way to anticipate 90% of problems that usually occur ...but there are always new issues I have no experience with, for example, kid to kid, friendships. But even that I can anticipate many problems, doesn't always work well with all situations.

Sometimes, like lately, I have had a bunch of weird situations happen, all having to do with my kid, and other kids, and their parents. I can only guess what are the real reasons for the problems. I only can say that my amount of time here has taught me, that whatever the problem is, nobody will really tell me the issue, they will lie about it. Then I am stuck trying to figure out what/why the lie might mean/represent. And that probably, mostly leads to the wrong guess/answer.

Do you think it's possible that you don't actually want to live in Thailand?

Reading Amykat's comments, i wonder how you draw that conclusion. IMO there is no doubt about her desire to live in LOS. That she is on a way struggling, seeing her comments on this thread, is clear. She cares alot more than you make it look like. If not, she would not wrote extensively on this thread. Better would be for you to see her glass as halvefull instead of halfempty. Anyway, just my take on reading her comments.

If you don't want any contact with the people of a country that you live in, how can it be said that you want to live in a place? The way the Raj did, importing your own culture and keeping contact with 'the natives' to the basic requirements of economic necessity? Is this how farang want to live in Thailand? Blaming your ignorance and insularity on perceived weaknesses in the Thai character? It's a less honest version of what the Russian mobs are doing openly and even that great despot Cecil Rhodes wasn't this cowardly and callous.

Do you wonder that so many foreigners have bad experiences in Thailand?

ps: 'Khun' is not a title one grants to oneself.

[robertson468]

In before some self righteous farang says all thais don't care about you and ignore the fact that ppl from their countries do the same thing too.

I can only speak for the UK and i can tell you that nobody would take a child out somewhere without informing and getting permission from the parent or guardian. To do so would be considered as kidnapping!

Please give examples of the countries that people take children out without informing the parents or guardian where it would be considered normal or acceptable.

Key part of your sentence is "speak for the UK". You are NOT in the UK and Thais have their own culture, which might come as a bit of a shock to someone who perhaps has not got into the Thai culture thing. Remember that in many Thai Families, which incidentally are far, far closer than UK ones, as a general rule, consider Uncles, daughters, cousins, nieces, second cousins and sometimes very close friends, as members of the Family. I visit my Wife's Parent's quite frequently and we like nothing better than to bundle all the kids (including some grown up ones) into the back of a pick-up and take off up to the mountains and play in the waterfall and stream for hours on end. The first time we did it, like you, I said to my Wife, hey we need to tell all the parents. She looked at me like I was a space cadet and said, "why, they are my Family". Okay, lesson learned and now we do it as often as we can and return to Parents wet, tired and very hungry and the kids parents are very grateful. Would recommend immersing yourself in a bit of local Thai culture if you intend to live here long term - I don't mean that in a rude way, but somethings will then come as not quite so much of a shock to the system.

[loong]

In before some self righteous farang says all thais don't care about you and ignore the fact that ppl from their countries do the same thing too.

I can only speak for the UK and i can tell you that nobody would take a child out somewhere without informing and getting permission from the parent or guardian. To do so would be considered as kidnapping!

Please give examples of the countries that people take children out without informing the parents or guardian where it would be considered normal or acceptable.

Key part of your sentence is "speak for the UK". You are NOT in the UK and Thais have their own culture, which might come as a bit of a shock to someone who perhaps has not got into the Thai culture thing. Remember that in many Thai Families, which incidentally are far, far closer than UK ones, as a general rule, consider Uncles, daughters, cousins, nieces, second cousins and sometimes very close friends, as members of the Family. I visit my Wife's Parent's quite frequently and we like nothing better than to bundle all the kids (including some grown up ones) into the back of a pick-up and take off up to the mountains and play in the waterfall and stream for hours on end. The first time we did it, like you, I said to my Wife, hey we need to tell all the parents. She looked at me like I was a space cadet and said, "why, they are my Family". Okay, lesson learned and now we do it as often as we can and return to Parents wet, tired and very hungry and the kids parents are very grateful. Would recommend immersing yourself in a bit of local Thai culture if you intend to live here long term - I don't mean that in a rude way, but somethings will then come as not quite so much of a shock to the system.

Yes, the Key part of my sentence is "speak for the UK".

Did you fail to notice the post that I was responding to, the one that you included in your above quote?

I did not bring up the subject of what happens in other countries, I was responding to somebody else who had.

As I have already lived here a fairly long time with nearly no contact with other farangs, I am quite well immersed in local Thai culture. Do I understand it all or even agree with most of it? No.

Most of what is considered culture, such as Extremely loud parties that go on for days on end, fireworks, and in particular loud bangers being set of from 6AM to 10PM for weeks in October, etc,etc are not culture, just total lack of consideration for others.

So you take other people's children to the mountains and waterfalls without informing their parents. Should you and your wife have an accident and be unable to return the kids, what will happen? The parents will have no idea where their children are. You call it culture, I call it thoughtlessness.

If we take anybody else's children out, we will always inform the parents. Oh and that is my Thai Missus that will do that, because she wouldn't want anybody to worry if they couldn't find their children. She has been immersed in Thai culture all of her life!

[diyer]

Sorry, but I agree with Loongs apprehensions and concerns.

The safety and welfare of a child comes before any cultural excuses.

If the child was known to be under the care and supervision of a family member, then that is a different matter.

To merely take of with another child, albeit a family member without notifying one of the child's parents is ignorant and irresponsible.

[glegolo]

To many Thais you wouldnt even be considered "family", whereas the Uncle is and why would anyone report to you ? I know this as I was in the same situation, 8 years ago none of my now family could speak Engkish and I spoke little Thai, no one in the family has ever telephoned me, only the wife, everything goes through her, its not a deliberate bypass its just easier for them to communicate that way.

Although I am far from fluent, I do speak Thai. Communication is not a problem.

But I do understand what you are saying. I am an outsider, and do not need to be considered

I have not read the whole thread, but can say that it doesn´t matter that you are falang or not,

the thai people in my social sfare just do what you descibe. The take our daughter give her dinner

without even askin, take her to town to go shopping at Big C and noone bothers to tell us,

her parents.....

I do not know but to me it seems to be the thai way....

Glegolo