claiming uk pension here or uk

[Patronus]

I do hope this isn't an enquiry about claiming to be in the UK and so getting your pension increased over the years in line with UK inflation versus claiming to be in the UK and having the pension amount frozen for the rest of your life. If you're resident in Thailand that would be fraud.

I must admit, I am vaguely interested in what will happen when I retire, as I can see me spending rainy season (April - October - i.e. Summer), living in the UK, while wintering in Thailand. Would my pension be frozen while in Thailand, then jump up again each time I'm back in the UK. - and when I return to Thailand, would it still be frozen at the rate when I retire, or does it reset to the rate when you last lived in the UK.

Given the recent changes to restrict FULL state pensions to people with 30 qualifying years of contributions, and the fact I've spent 12 years abroad, I'm not even sure I'll end up getting a full state pension. I am not intending to rely on it, because western governments are bankrupting themselves with entitlement spending and I fully expect them to run out of money paying pensions for the "baby boomers". They might end up deciding that the way to deal with the obvious unfairness of the frozen pension retirement country lottery (pension frozen if you retire to Thailand or Canada, not frozen if you retire to the Philippines or the USA, etc.), is to simply freeze the pensions of everyone.

Qualification for a full pension is changing to 35 years.

You can make voluntary contributions,

You will run out of money before any government does (obviously, USA being the exception)

[Patronus]

I am currently on vacation in Thailand, but intend to live here permanently from early next year.

I'm only 60, so won't receive my state pension for another 5 years.

However I have already made extensive enquiries with the DWP and the Inland Revenue.

Everyone will have different circumstances and incomes, so my advise would be to do your own checks with relevant departments to see what works best for your situation.

Next year because I'm only 60 my income will come from renting my home and private pensions.

I'll register for self assessment for tax purposes.

No tax will be automatically taken from my private pension payments or home rental.

I can claim maintenance and agents costs against my total income and hopefully should break even without having to pay any tax.

When I'm 65 I'll receive my state pension and another private pension.

I can either notify them I am living in Thailand in which case my state pension will be frozen and I'll have to pay taxes, or;

I can claim exemption from the UK and pay no taxes there.

Theoretically I should then pay taxes in Thailand, but I won't tell if you don't

If you want to keep a UK address in order to get state pension increases, then you'll also pay taxes on your income.

You either make a clean break and live in Thailand or keep looking over your shoulder.

When considering where to have your money paid, either Thai or UK banks, consider interest rates.

The Thai banks offer a far better rate than UK banks.

Offshore banking is another option, although even their rates are lower than Thai banks.

If you spend more than 181 days in the UK then you can claim the current state pension.

Every 5 years or so, I'll visit family and stay to claim the current rate.

Even when I move back to Thailand that rate will continue.

There isn't any one answer to cover everyone.

I would make some more enquiries because you are wrong on a couple of counts.

All income derived in the UK is taxable. You will have a tax allowance and the cosde will be given to your pension provider. They will deduct tax at source.

If you become non-resident any rental income should have tax deducted at source - certainly in the case of a letting agent being used. You can apply for tax not to be deducted.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/incometax/tax-leave-uk.htm

I will stand corrected but I believe your pension increase strategy is also flawed. The increase would only apply for the duration of your stay in the UK

[4u2mad]

Recently I checked the new requirements to determine UK residency issued by HMRC. This 'simple' document runs to 50 pages or more. By page 10 I realised that it was worded in such a way that it could be construed to mean anything a revenue officer said it meant. Lots of luck fighting THEM in court.

And then there is the simple way. I know that I will pay tax on ANY income derived from the UK, I take that as a given. I also know that I am here on a 'non-resident' visa, like the majority of posters here, possiblly 'O' with retirement extension, marriage extension or whatever your particular flavour is, the important bit is 'non-resident'.

I also hold that increasingly worthless piece of paper called a 'British passport'. Sooo, i must be 'resident' somewhere, the passport, to me, indicates UK, Simples!

[Morden]

gee thanks to all who posted i never thought this was a big topic

i can take a rain check on this

if i claim from the uk i get all the benifits

one poster said that as from april 2014 no payments to be made here for new claiments

so back to were to claim i have lived her on an extension of stay retirement visa renew every year 800000 in the bank for the past 14 years report every 90 days this is not resident visa but a temperey of stay like most expats have married or single so this is not permanant in the eyes of thai law as it can change as they wish the bottom line is claim from the uk take a chance im here on holidy with a years extension to my visa

claim from thailand be a sucker what with the romanians and others claiming for everthing in sight who have not paid anything into the ni id be the sucker no too

Out of interest can the UK system tract that you are living abroad? e.g. in Australia the benefits payment department computers are integrated with immigration and are alerted once the payee has exceeded the allowed time abroad for the full range of benefits payments, including Aged Pension

It seems that they can. I know someone who gave a UK address for several years when he was permanently in Thailand. He never knew how they found out but, for quite a few years now, the UK government agencies have been building a national database.

[Morden]

The word that should be used is 'domiciled', not 'resident'.

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/international/domicile.htm

[shaurene]

I have New Zealand passport and get pension from them. When I was 70 I decided to try my pension from UK which comes to my NZ bank account. I was very surprised when I received a letter some months after my first payment that I was entitled to 5 years back pay which amounted to over 24,000 pounds which I got in a lump sum. The amount of my UK pension is deducted from my NZ pension.

My friend here in Khon Kaen claimed his UK pension from here after I down loaded the forms for him and pushed him to claim, he now gets it into his Thai bank account. Claim from here.

[nontabury]

gee thanks to all who posted i never thought this was a big topic

i can take a rain check on this

if i claim from the uk i get all the benifits

one poster said that as from april 2014 no payments to be made here for new claiments

so back to were to claim i have lived her on an extension of stay retirement visa renew every year 800000 in the bank for the past 14 years report every 90 days this is not resident visa but a temperey of stay like most expats have married or single so this is not permanant in the eyes of thai law as it can change as they wish the bottom line is claim from the uk take a chance im here on holidy with a years extension to my visa

claim from thailand be a sucker what with the romanians and others claiming for everthing in sight who have not paid anything into the ni id be the sucker no too

Out of interest can the UK system tract that you are living abroad? e.g. in Australia the benefits payment department computers are integrated with immigration and are alerted once the payee has exceeded the allowed time abroad for the full range of benefits payments, including Aged Pension

It seems that they can. I know someone who gave a UK address for several years when he was permanently in Thailand. He never knew how they found out but, for quite a few years now, the UK government agencies have been building a national database.

I know of 5 British pensioners who are claiming indexed linked pensions while residing in Thailand, 2 of them have been here in excess of 6 yrs, there is simple no checks in place to find out who is non resident, for Christ sake they cannot even keep records or trace of thousands of foreigners residing in the UK. The only way they can find out, is if someone informs on them. I for one would never do that, best of luck to them I say.

[simple1]

I have New Zealand passport and get pension from them. When I was 70 I decided to try my pension from UK which comes to my NZ bank account. I was very surprised when I received a letter some months after my first payment that I was entitled to 5 years back pay which amounted to over 24,000 pounds which I got in a lump sum. The amount of my UK pension is deducted from my NZ pension.

My friend here in Khon Kaen claimed his UK pension from here after I down loaded the forms for him and pushed him to claim, he now gets it into his Thai bank account. Claim from here.

Off topic, but it seems UK & NZ citizens are able to submit a claim for government funded pensions, whilst living abroad; this is not the case for Australians who must return to Australia to claim and 'prove' intent of permanent residency; it is claimed that often this is rejected after living overseas for more than three years immediately prior to pensionable age. If accepted upon return, Australians must remain in Australia for a minimum of two years prior to again relocating overseas for continuing Aged Pension payments

Edited October 16, 2013 by simple1

[nontabury]

I am currently on vacation in Thailand, but intend to live here permanently from early next year.

I'm only 60, so won't receive my state pension for another 5 years.

However I have already made extensive enquiries with the DWP and the Inland Revenue.

Everyone will have different circumstances and incomes, so my advise would be to do your own checks with relevant departments to see what works best for your situation.

Next year because I'm only 60 my income will come from renting my home and private pensions.

I'll register for self assessment for tax purposes.

No tax will be automatically taken from my private pension payments or home rental.

I can claim maintenance and agents costs against my total income and hopefully should break even without having to pay any tax.

When I'm 65 I'll receive my state pension and another private pension.

I can either notify them I am living in Thailand in which case my state pension will be frozen and I'll have to pay taxes, or;

I can claim exemption from the UK and pay no taxes there.

Theoretically I should then pay taxes in Thailand, but I won't tell if you don't

If you want to keep a UK address in order to get state pension increases, then you'll also pay taxes on your income.

You either make a clean break and live in Thailand or keep looking over your shoulder.

When considering where to have your money paid, either Thai or UK banks, consider interest rates.

The Thai banks offer a far better rate than UK banks.

Offshore banking is another option, although even their rates are lower than Thai banks.

If you spend more than 181 days in the UK then you can claim the current state pension.

Every 5 years or so, I'll visit family and stay to claim the current rate.

Even when I move back to Thailand that rate will continue.

There isn't any one answer to cover everyone.

You cannot claim exemption from UK tax. ANY income derived from the UK is subject to UK tax,as all of us living in Thailand well know. Your best bet is not to inform the UK authorities that you are,or intend to live in Thailand, keep an address in the UK or one of the countries where they do receive the yearly increase, therefore ensuring that you receive the yearly increase that YOU have paid for.

Even though that would be illegal.

The law determines who should get the increase (fair or NOT), not posters like nontabury

No! not posters like me, or the vast majority of ex-pat pensioners who are also being cheated by the British government, Explaining that the country cannot afford to pay pensioners,what they have paid in, while at the same time this same government seems to have the financiers to pay non contributed benefits to 600,000 foreign claimants.

[Eneukman]

I do hope this isn't an enquiry about claiming to be in the UK and so getting your pension increased over the years in line with UK inflation versus claiming to be in the UK and having the pension amount frozen for the rest of your life. If you're resident in Thailand that would be fraud.

Correct. It is fraud and fraud is a criminal offense though legal action is unlikely provided arrangements are made to repay what was claimed fraudulently though it would not surprise me if penalties and interest charges were raised in the future.

I keep hoping that when I get my state pension in 8 years that the UK government will have relented and will give everyone the annual pension increases. If the government find out after you've died they'll simply take the amount overpaid out of your estate.

You might want to take a look at this link as it relates to index-linking. If you are "officially" resident here, it appears your pension won't be indexed-linked. Thailand does not have a social security agreement with the UK(. Better to have it paid in to a UK account (or somewhere else in the EEA) and then transfer it over.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/state-pension-for-people-living-overseas

Why would you suggest having it paid into a UK account when someone is living in Thailand ?

It is more cost effective to have the Pension Service pay to a Thai bank account.

All my income is paid into my UK bank account from where I transfer funds to my account in the Isle of Man. I then transfer funds once or twice a year to my account here.

Alan

[Morden]

The pension increases paid to those who don't declare their domicile in Thailand are funded by tax payers, including pensioners who have declared their domicile. I don't like to read posts by people who are cheating me.

A case for pensioners who don't get increases went to the European Court and the government's policy was upheld. However, I believe that there is a pressure group still fighting this. Perhaps someone here has a link to the group's website.

[jpeg]

I claimed my pension while living here in Thailand, no problem at all, you have the option of having it paid into a U.K. bank account or they will send it direct to your bank in Thailand.

Ensure that if it is being paid into a Thai bank that they send it as Pounds Sterling or you will have a lower exchange rate.

If you've told them you're living abroad, ie here, your pension will be paid into your Thai bank a/c at the current exchange rate. They don't send in sterling.

[jpeg]

I know of 5 British pensioners who are claiming indexed linked pensions while residing in Thailand, 2 of them have been here in excess of 6 yrs, there is simple no checks in place to find out who is non resident, for Christ sake they cannot even keep records or trace of thousands of foreigners residing in the UK. The only way they can find out, is if someone informs on them. I for one would never do that, best of luck to them I say.

And there's the rub. There'll always be some bastard who might. I'd prefer to sleep at night.

[Patronus]

I claimed my pension while living here in Thailand, no problem at all, you have the option of having it paid into a U.K. bank account or they will send it direct to your bank in Thailand.

Ensure that if it is being paid into a Thai bank that they send it as Pounds Sterling or you will have a lower exchange rate.

If you've told them you're living abroad, ie here, your pension will be paid into your Thai bank a/c at the current exchange rate. They don't send in sterling.

I believe they use Bangkok Bank. They will, of course, pay Sterling to a nominated UK bank account.

[Patronus]

I do hope this isn't an enquiry about claiming to be in the UK and so getting your pension increased over the years in line with UK inflation versus claiming to be in the UK and having the pension amount frozen for the rest of your life. If you're resident in Thailand that would be fraud.

Correct. It is fraud and fraud is a criminal offense though legal action is unlikely provided arrangements are made to repay what was claimed fraudulently though it would not surprise me if penalties and interest charges were raised in the future.

I keep hoping that when I get my state pension in 8 years that the UK government will have relented and will give everyone the annual pension increases. If the government find out after you've died they'll simply take the amount overpaid out of your estate.

You might want to take a look at this link as it relates to index-linking. If you are "officially" resident here, it appears your pension won't be indexed-linked. Thailand does not have a social security agreement with the UK(. Better to have it paid in to a UK account (or somewhere else in the EEA) and then transfer it over.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/state-pension-for-people-living-overseas

Why would you suggest having it paid into a UK account when someone is living in Thailand ?

It is more cost effective to have the Pension Service pay to a Thai bank account.

All my income is paid into my UK bank account from where I transfer funds to my account in the Isle of Man. I then transfer funds once or twice a year to my account here.

Alan

Alan, you will understand that some people need a more regular flow of funds - monthly, or even weekly in some cases.

[Patronus]

I am currently on vacation in Thailand, but intend to live here permanently from early next year.

I'm only 60, so won't receive my state pension for another 5 years.

However I have already made extensive enquiries with the DWP and the Inland Revenue.

Everyone will have different circumstances and incomes, so my advise would be to do your own checks with relevant departments to see what works best for your situation.

Next year because I'm only 60 my income will come from renting my home and private pensions.

I'll register for self assessment for tax purposes.

No tax will be automatically taken from my private pension payments or home rental.

I can claim maintenance and agents costs against my total income and hopefully should break even without having to pay any tax.

When I'm 65 I'll receive my state pension and another private pension.

I can either notify them I am living in Thailand in which case my state pension will be frozen and I'll have to pay taxes, or;

I can claim exemption from the UK and pay no taxes there.

Theoretically I should then pay taxes in Thailand, but I won't tell if you don't

If you want to keep a UK address in order to get state pension increases, then you'll also pay taxes on your income.

You either make a clean break and live in Thailand or keep looking over your shoulder.

When considering where to have your money paid, either Thai or UK banks, consider interest rates.

The Thai banks offer a far better rate than UK banks.

Offshore banking is another option, although even their rates are lower than Thai banks.

If you spend more than 181 days in the UK then you can claim the current state pension.

Every 5 years or so, I'll visit family and stay to claim the current rate.

Even when I move back to Thailand that rate will continue.

There isn't any one answer to cover everyone.

You cannot claim exemption from UK tax. ANY income derived from the UK is subject to UK tax,as all of us living in Thailand well know. Your best bet is not to inform the UK authorities that you are,or intend to live in Thailand, keep an address in the UK or one of the countries where they do receive the yearly increase, therefore ensuring that you receive the yearly increase that YOU have paid for.

Even though that would be illegal.

The law determines who should get the increase (fair or NOT), not posters like nontabury

No! not posters like me, or the vast majority of ex-pat pensioners who are also being cheated by the British government, Explaining that the country cannot afford to pay pensioners,what they have paid in, while at the same time this same government seems to have the financiers to pay non contributed benefits to 600,000 foreign claimants.

Oh, how I wish Bendix was here to argue his one-track view that you are not entitled to a pension and payment is entirely at the discretion of the UK government.

[Robbie Dye]

I do not condone pretending to the UK Gov that u live there if you live in Thailand. I also read somewhere that Thai wives will not be entitled to UK pensions after death of British husbands. This is in a way fair coz they have never to a large extent contributed to UK tax system but of course the UK Gov needs the dosh to pay the Poles, Rumanians, etc etc etc who live in the UK. Seriously tho dont let them pay to a Thai account as you dont have any measure to control possible exchange rates, mine is paid to UK bank and I draw it quarterly or when I need it at 17 quid a go, much better than paying that every 4 weeks!!

[transam]

I do not condone pretending to the UK Gov that u live there if you live in Thailand. I also read somewhere that Thai wives will not be entitled to UK pensions after death of British husbands. This is in a way fair coz they have never to a large extent contributed to UK tax system but of course the UK Gov needs the dosh to pay the Poles, Rumanians, etc etc etc who live in the UK. Seriously tho dont let them pay to a Thai account as you dont have any measure to control possible exchange rates, mine is paid to UK bank and I draw it quarterly or when I need it at 17 quid a go, much better than paying that every 4 weeks!!

I read in the UK news today that a high ranking guy to do with UK civil marriages reckons 20% are bogus .

Just a means of getting feet on the ground in land of handouts it seems.

[Patronus]

I do not condone pretending to the UK Gov that u live there if you live in Thailand. I also read somewhere that Thai wives will not be entitled to UK pensions after death of British husbands. This is in a way fair coz they have never to a large extent contributed to UK tax system but of course the UK Gov needs the dosh to pay the Poles, Rumanians, etc etc etc who live in the UK. Seriously tho dont let them pay to a Thai account as you dont have any measure to control possible exchange rates, mine is paid to UK bank and I draw it quarterly or when I need it at 17 quid a go, much better than paying that every 4 weeks!!

Anyone having their pension paid to Thailand would save GBP 68 per year as there is no charge attached. The onshore rate processed through Bangkok Bank is likely to be a tad lower than sending Sterling to Thailand.

You have to take the prevailing rate each 3 months, with 13 pension payments over the course of the year there is an element of "Pound cost averaging".

As stated before, many expats cannot afford the luxury of 4 transfers a year.

[maingmoom]

As someone who informed the authorities of my residence in Thailand and who subsequently receives a non indexed pension, even though I did make NI contributions for 44 yrs. I would advice the OP to keep it secret where he now lives, and to have his pension paid into his UK bank, and in doing so he will received it indexed linked.

I'm sure some people will reply that I am encouraging fraud, well in my opion and that of tens of thousand of other pensioner who are in the same situation, the British Government committed fraud when they took my Ni from me with no intention of paying me a fully indexed pension simply because I reside in Thailand.

I too informed the government that I was living in Thailand. I now regret ever telling them. I was fully paid up for 48 years ,I never claimed sickness and I was never unemployed. I feel that for the last seven years the government have robbed me of what is rightfully mine.

[sms747]

I do not condone pretending to the UK Gov that u live there if you live in Thailand. I also read somewhere that Thai wives will not be entitled to UK pensions after death of British husbands. This is in a way fair coz they have never to a large extent contributed to UK tax system but of course the UK Gov needs the dosh to pay the Poles, Rumanians, etc etc etc who live in the UK. Seriously tho dont let them pay to a Thai account as you dont have any measure to control possible exchange rates, mine is paid to UK bank and I draw it quarterly or when I need it at 17 quid a go, much better than paying that every 4 weeks!!

I read in the UK news today that a high ranking guy to do with UK civil marriages reckons 20% are bogus .

Just a means of getting feet on the ground in land of handouts it seems.

Also 10% jobseeker allowances are from foreigners including Nigerians and even the French! No wonder they have to penny pinch when it comes to UK citizens who have paid into the system for decades and retired.

Edited October 16, 2013 by sms747

[FiftyTwo]

I do not condone pretending to the UK Gov that u live there if you live in Thailand. I also read somewhere that Thai wives will not be entitled to UK pensions after death of British husbands. This is in a way fair coz they have never to a large extent contributed to UK tax system but of course the UK Gov needs the dosh to pay the Poles, Rumanians, etc etc etc who live in the UK. Seriously tho dont let them pay to a Thai account as you dont have any measure to control possible exchange rates, mine is paid to UK bank and I draw it quarterly or when I need it at 17 quid a go, much better than paying that every 4 weeks!!

Just to point out British wives will not be entitled to UK pensions after the death of British husbands either (unless they paid their own NI contributions).

[Rimmer]

Several posts proposing an illegal activity have been reported and removed

[Chizod]

You might want to take a look at this link as it relates to index-linking. If you are "officially" resident here, it appears your pension won't be indexed-linked. Thailand does not have a social security agreement with the UK(. Better to have it paid in to a UK account (or somewhere else in the EEA) and then transfer it over.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/state-pension-for-people-living-overseas

Why would you suggest having it paid into a UK account when someone is living in Thailand ?

It is more cost effective to have the Pension Service pay to a Thai bank account.

If you are resident in Thailand, you will not have your pension increased year after year, adjusted upwards for cost of living index increases. You will still get the amount you start with but it will never go up. If you have it paid into an account in the UK, any country in the EEA, or Switzerland, you will receive the benefit of an increased pension amount each month/ year. Since the OP is talking about a UK pension, I am assuming that he has an address he can use in the UK as his official "residence" and a bank account there. Claiming residence in the UK, or any of the other countries mentioned, guarantees that he will get those index-linked increases each year. After that the OP can decide if he wants to keep it in his account in the UK or transfer to Thailand - a very simple (and cheap) thing to do via internet banking. I hope this helps?

[lastbastion]

You might want to take a look at this link as it relates to index-linking. If you are "officially" resident here, it appears your pension won't be indexed-linked. Thailand does not have a social security agreement with the UK(. Better to have it paid in to a UK account (or somewhere else in the EEA) and then transfer it over.

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/state-pension-for-people-living-overseas

Why would you suggest having it paid into a UK account when someone is living in Thailand ?

It is more cost effective to have the Pension Service pay to a Thai bank account.

If you are resident in Thailand, you will not have your pension increased year after year, adjusted upwards for cost of living index increases. You will still get the amount you start with but it will never go up. If you have it paid into an account in the UK, any country in the EEA, or Switzerland, you will receive the benefit of an increased pension amount each month/ year. Since the OP is talking about a UK pension, I am assuming that he has an address he can use in the UK as his official "residence" and a bank account there. Claiming residence in the UK, or any of the other countries mentioned, guarantees that he will get those index-linked increases each year. After that the OP can decide if he wants to keep it in his account in the UK or transfer to Thailand - a very simple (and cheap) thing to do via internet banking. I hope this helps?

Sorry - I hadn't realised that your advice was motivated by an illegal act of deceiving the DWP into thinking that the claimant was living in the UK.

My conclusion was simply based on cost-effectiveness.

...and legality.

[diyer]

I am currently on vacation in Thailand, but intend to live here permanently from early next year.

I'm only 60, so won't receive my state pension for another 5 years.

However I have already made extensive enquiries with the DWP and the Inland Revenue.

Everyone will have different circumstances and incomes, so my advise would be to do your own checks with relevant departments to see what works best for your situation.

Next year because I'm only 60 my income will come from renting my home and private pensions.

I'll register for self assessment for tax purposes.

No tax will be automatically taken from my private pension payments or home rental.

I can claim maintenance and agents costs against my total income and hopefully should break even without having to pay any tax.

When I'm 65 I'll receive my state pension and another private pension.

I can either notify them I am living in Thailand in which case my state pension will be frozen and I'll have to pay taxes, or;

I can claim exemption from the UK and pay no taxes there.

Theoretically I should then pay taxes in Thailand, but I won't tell if you don't

If you want to keep a UK address in order to get state pension increases, then you'll also pay taxes on your income.

You either make a clean break and live in Thailand or keep looking over your shoulder.

When considering where to have your money paid, either Thai or UK banks, consider interest rates.

The Thai banks offer a far better rate than UK banks.

Offshore banking is another option, although even their rates are lower than Thai banks.

If you spend more than 181 days in the UK then you can claim the current state pension.

Every 5 years or so, I'll visit family and stay to claim the current rate.

Even when I move back to Thailand that rate will continue.

There isn't any one answer to cover everyone.

You cannot claim exemption from UK tax. ANY income derived from the UK is subject to UK tax,as all of us living in Thailand well know. Your best bet is not to inform the UK authorities that you are,or intend to live in Thailand, keep an address in the UK or one of the countries where they do receive the yearly increase, therefore ensuring that you receive the yearly increase that YOU have paid for.

No, sorry your incorrect.

If your intention is going to permanently live abroad in a Country with no reciprocal agreements with the UK you can deregister with Inland Revenue.

Any income or interest from the UK is then not taxed.

However you should declare this income for tax in your resident Country............but who does!

Of course you have to complete a number of forms. Inland Revenue will supply the forms.

You will not get annual pension increases.

OK, so you'll lose out by an increase of £120 to your state pension next year, but you'll save far more in not paying taxes.

For those who pretend to remain a resident of the UK by having a UK address, your fooling nobody.

The authorities know when you left the UK and when/if you return.

They'll catch up with you sooner or later.

If your claiming state pension and return to the UK for a visit you can claim any pension increase for the period of your visit.

When you leave the UK again your pension will revert back to the amount you previously received.

If your claiming state pension and return to the UK for a period exceeding 180 days, you can claim British residency and receive the current rate of state pension.

When you leave the UK your pension will be frozen at the new rate, not your previously frozen rate.

That is because you exercised your right to British residency again.

I know people in this position already. I checked these facts with an accountant and with advisors of the DWP and Inland Revenue who confirmed they are correct.

That's not to say things won't change in the future.

I think it's a disgrace that UK state pensions are not automatically increased just because you later choose to live in Thailand or elsewhere.

From what I understand this could change in the near future.

[Tafia]

The pension increases paid to those who don't declare their domicile in Thailand are funded by tax payers, including pensioners who have declared their domicile. I don't like to read posts by people who are cheating me.

A case for pensioners who don't get increases went to the European Court and the government's policy was upheld. However, I believe that there is a pressure group still fighting this. Perhaps someone here has a link to the group's website.

http://The International Consortium of British Pensioners (ICBP)

Edited October 16, 2013 by Tafia

[lastbastion]

I am currently on vacation in Thailand, but intend to live here permanently from early next year.

I'm only 60, so won't receive my state pension for another 5 years.

However I have already made extensive enquiries with the DWP and the Inland Revenue.

Everyone will have different circumstances and incomes, so my advise would be to do your own checks with relevant departments to see what works best for your situation.

Next year because I'm only 60 my income will come from renting my home and private pensions.

I'll register for self assessment for tax purposes.

No tax will be automatically taken from my private pension payments or home rental.

I can claim maintenance and agents costs against my total income and hopefully should break even without having to pay any tax.

When I'm 65 I'll receive my state pension and another private pension.

I can either notify them I am living in Thailand in which case my state pension will be frozen and I'll have to pay taxes, or;

I can claim exemption from the UK and pay no taxes there.

Theoretically I should then pay taxes in Thailand, but I won't tell if you don't

If you want to keep a UK address in order to get state pension increases, then you'll also pay taxes on your income.

You either make a clean break and live in Thailand or keep looking over your shoulder.

When considering where to have your money paid, either Thai or UK banks, consider interest rates.

The Thai banks offer a far better rate than UK banks.

Offshore banking is another option, although even their rates are lower than Thai banks.

If you spend more than 181 days in the UK then you can claim the current state pension.

Every 5 years or so, I'll visit family and stay to claim the current rate.

Even when I move back to Thailand that rate will continue.

There isn't any one answer to cover everyone.

You cannot claim exemption from UK tax. ANY income derived from the UK is subject to UK tax,as all of us living in Thailand well know. Your best bet is not to inform the UK authorities that you are,or intend to live in Thailand, keep an address in the UK or one of the countries where they do receive the yearly increase, therefore ensuring that you receive the yearly increase that YOU have paid for.

No, sorry your incorrect.

If your intention is going to permanently live abroad in a Country with no reciprocal agreements with the UK you can deregister with Inland Revenue.

Any income or interest from the UK is then not taxed.

However you should declare this income for tax in your resident Country............but who does!

Of course you have to complete a number of forms. Inland Revenue will supply the forms.

You will not get annual pension increases.

OK, so you'll lose out by an increase of £120 to your state pension next year, but you'll save far more in not paying taxes.

For those who pretend to remain a resident of the UK by having a UK address, your fooling nobody.

The authorities know when you left the UK and when/if you return.

They'll catch up with you sooner or later.

If your claiming state pension and return to the UK for a visit you can claim any pension increase for the period of your visit.

When you leave the UK again your pension will revert back to the amount you previously received.

If your claiming state pension and return to the UK for a period exceeding 180 days, you can claim British residency and receive the current rate of state pension.

When you leave the UK your pension will be frozen at the new rate, not your previously frozen rate.

That is because you exercised your right to British residency again.

I know people in this position already. I checked these facts with an accountant and with advisors of the DWP and Inland Revenue who confirmed they are correct.

That's not to say things won't change in the future.

I think it's a disgrace that UK state pensions are not automatically increased just because you later choose to live in Thailand or elsewhere.

From what I understand this could change in the near future.

I would say that the first part of your statement is incorrect. You cannot "opt out" of the UK tax system if you have income that is derived there. A former employer who is now paying your pension will only NOT deduct tax if he has the appropriate coding notification. So you think you can call IR and say "Oh, would you mind giving me a zero tax code for my pension because I am going to domicile myself in Thailand and declare my income there". Right !!

You must surely recognise how illogical your assertion is that you can avoid tax on UK derived income ??

Dream on, sir - I hope you did not pay anything for the advice you believe you received.

For any reciprocal arrangement to apply you would first need to register with the tax authorities in Thailand - I believe that Inland Revenue require this before anything can happen. Have you enquired about registering for tax with the Thai authorities ?

Edited October 16, 2013 by lastbastion

[White Tiger]

I have a questoin if I may.

If I have a final salary pension and a state pension and am non UK resident with tax exempt status. Do I pay tax on my pension?

If I claim I am a UK resident, I presume I will have tax deducted from my pension.

Would the non-index linking of a pension claimed as a non resident be worth more than any tax gain?

There is no tax gain, you still pay UK tax on pensions.

You lose all protection for your private pension from the FSA, as you are no longer UK resident.

(so it's a free gift for your IFA who can now cheat and con you with no worries about comeback)

On a point of detail the FSA (Financial Services Authority) no longer exists. Its failure to foresee and regulate the UK banking crisis led to it being split into 2 new financial regulators by the current UK coalition government. The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) and the Prudential Regulation Authority (PRA). I’ve not spent much time looking at the websites of the new authorities but from the short time I have spent looking at them, it appears to me that the FCA is the body that now purports to protect consumers of personal financial products.

On a historical note, one of the FSA’s supervisory areas was private personal pensions – i.e pensions purchased by individuals from insurance companies. The FSA did not supervise the UK State pension – which I understand most of this thread is about. Private occupational pensions – i.e. 'company' pensions provided by employers for their employees were, and continue to be, supervised by the UK Pensions Regulator.

On a factual note, UK State pension policy is the responsibility of the DWP (Department for Work and Pensions, a UK Government department), not HMRC (the tax office).

[FiftyTwo]

No, sorry your incorrect.

If your intention is going to permanently live abroad in a Country with no reciprocal agreements with the UK you can deregister with Inland Revenue.

Any income or interest from the UK is then not taxed.

Absolute <deleted>!

You can not opt out of paying tax in the UK on money derived from the UK.

Your UK company pension, UK private pension and UK state pension are all taxed in the UK, no matter what you do.

(Of course you could put your company and private pension into a QROPs ...... which would likely lose you 20% a year on your capital, with the current bunch of crooks running most schemes)

You can't avoid UK tax on your UK pensions, anyone telling you different is a fool or a crook.

Edited October 16, 2013 by FiftyTwo