long time in Thailand and my thai still sucks

[cpofc]

Oh BTW, one of my really good thai friends here (english speaking), in his Mid 50s now, his mother in law is Chinese, 92 years old, lived here all her life and does not speak Thai!

[Jackson86]

It's not about whether learning thai is an advantage or not, but rather learning thai is a basic respect to the country if u intend to stay in the long run.

[sms747]

The problem is that it is so useless to learn Thai and people are so kind that they never get mad if you don't speak or understand...

Please explain why it is useless to speak Thai. I am baffled.

I'm on my way out to buy wood for my garden shed and I want advice about how to treat it - how on earth could I do this if I was linguistically challenged.

You think they will know? if they don't they will only lie so you are better off using TV for your question, in my opinion.

[mikemac]

I have a theory, that the people on this forum who make comments regarding it not being important to learn the Thai language are the exact same people who would complain about someone from another country migrating to their country and not being able to speak their native tongue, most likely English. To be able to live in some Western countries applicants must pass stringent language tests. And so they should.

[cooked]

You should have clarified that by saying that they say "you speak very good Thai" in English! Like most people who speak reasonable Thai I almost give up speaking the language. Certainly in places like decent hotels and with airline staff, they really hate you to speak thai with them. Black canyon and the likes is usually ok though! I can read and write and have been able to speak thai for well over 12 years and yet I never get fluent. I can understand almost anything but not if they speak fast. Ask them to repeat a sentence is like asking them to fart. Just so frustrating.

I think it depends on your Thai ability whether or not Thai people in good hotels etc want to speak with you. I agree they want to show off their English skills if they have them. I am the same with Thais who want to speak English but they can't speak well, I'd rather talk in Thai. I got security cameras in my house yesterday and the guy who installing them was determined to explain things to me in English. I had to tell him to stop and speak Thai as I couldn't understand him.

Doctors are the worst at speaking Thai to foreigners who can speak Thai. It's a face or ego thing. Once at Bamrungrad before my wife was giving birth, the doctor spoke to me in English and I translated to Thai for my wife. My wife spoke to the doctor in Thai and the doctor translated for me in English. The doctor spoke Thai to my wife then I'd say something in Thai to him and he'd reply in ENglish then have to translate for my wife, I spoke to the doctor in English and Thai, I spoke only Thai to my wife, man was it frustrating.

I find that it an elementary courtesy to make an effort to speak the other guy's language, as he should be doing also. You speak Thai, he speaks English.

[Jackson86]

no language is useless. it also depends on your objective. if you wish to learn a language in order to advance your career, then I agree Thai maybe ineffective since other countries don't use Thai. However, if you wish to understand and appreciate a particular culture of your interest, then any language is equally fine.

[boone57]

On the up side: Tone is only important at first when you are speaking one word at a time and there is no context to be taken from. The "uug uug" phase so to speak. For instance "my pen dry", "sawa dee cop"< "yin dee tee dye ru jak", "bye nye ma", will all be understood by the Thai's no matter what tone is used or no tone.(mono tone). There are exceptions to this like the word "glye", which means near or far depending on the tone but these instances are few.

Also, the tones will come as second nature in time. English has a tone in every single sentence that is so second nature that most people don't even realize they are doing it. We finish every sentence with a low tone. Even a simple "hello" the second sylable drops. We end with a high tone when asking a question without even thinking about it. It will come and when it does it's really great. There will be days the words fly out of your face and others you turn red and have to walk away.

It is also important to understand spoken language and written language. In my country no one ever, EVER, says "I am going to go to the store". They say "Im gonna godda thistore". But you have to learn what you are supposed to be saying before you can speak the "spoken" language. By the same token the Thai's will never say "wan a tit tee lau". They will say "wanna teetee lau".

Learn to read it. It will fortify your efforts and it's also fun to try to read signs and things in your daily surroudings.

Don't get annoyed by odd wording, we do it too. In America it is common talk for a waiter to bring you food or drink and say "here you go". Think about the phase itself, it makes absolutely no sence. It is just something that has eveloved over time.

It's way easier to speak than it is to hear. Learn a thousand words and move to an area where you have to speak Thai or die. You will learn fast.

You will learn in phases and it can be fun.

The old "realizing what someone said a few minutes after they spoke" phase and learning to speak fast enough that the Thai's no longer finish your sentences for you.

I am 56 and been at it about four years. Most of the locals respect me for trying, but I get the feeling from some that they resent my efforts. Why do you think they made it such a difficult language to begin with? I lived in Hawaii seven years and it seemed everyone had a second language, and the elevator was the place to prove it. Now I got a second language and love it.

I hope this post will help you.

[dao16]

On the up side: Tone is only important at first when you are speaking one word at a time and there is no context to be taken from. The "uug uug" phase so to speak. For instance "my pen dry", "sawa dee cop"< "yin dee tee dye ru jak", "bye nye ma", will all be understood by the Thai's no matter what tone is used or no tone.(mono tone). There are exceptions to this like the word "glye", which means near or far depending on the tone but these instances are few.

Also, the tones will come as second nature in time. English has a tone in every single sentence that is so second nature that most people don't even realize they are doing it. We finish every sentence with a low tone. Even a simple "hello" the second sylable drops. We end with a high tone when asking a question without even thinking about it. It will come and when it does it's really great. There will be days the words fly out of your face and others you turn red and have to walk away.

It is also important to understand spoken language and written language. In my country no one ever, EVER, says "I am going to go to the store". They say "Im gonna godda thistore". But you have to learn what you are supposed to be saying before you can speak the "spoken" language. By the same token the Thai's will never say "wan a tit tee lau". They will say "wanna teetee lau".

Learn to read it. It will fortify your efforts and it's also fun to try to read signs and things in your daily surroudings.

Don't get annoyed by odd wording, we do it too. In America it is common talk for a waiter to bring you food or drink and say "here you go". Think about the phase itself, it makes absolutely no sence. It is just something that has eveloved over time.

It's way easier to speak than it is to hear. Learn a thousand words and move to an area where you have to speak Thai or die. You will learn fast.

You will learn in phases and it can be fun.

The old "realizing what someone said a few minutes after they spoke" phase and learning to speak fast enough that the Thai's no longer finish your sentences for you.

I am 56 and been at it about four years. Most of the locals respect me for trying, but I get the feeling from some that they resent my efforts. Why do you think they made it such a difficult language to begin with? I lived in Hawaii seven years and it seemed everyone had a second language, and the elevator was the place to prove it. Now I got a second language and love it.

I hope this post will help you.

What makes you feel that they resent your effort? I have never experienced that....sort of racking my brain to see if I can remember a time like that. Would like to hear your story about that (honestly).

[sms747]

I have a theory, that the people on this forum who make comments regarding it not being important to learn the Thai language are the exact same people who would complain about someone from another country migrating to their country and not being able to speak their native tongue, most likely English. To be able to live in some Western countries applicants must pass stringent language tests. And so they should.

Not really comparing like with like is it. Almost every foreigner living here has no rights and no permanent right of residence. Thai is a non important world language spoken in one country and useless outside. English is the language of the world and more widely spoken around the world than any other.

[butterisbetter]

you go to school?

try to self study 1-2 hours everyday and it will take you a year and you fluent speaking..

BS, he might be able to make himself understood BUT he will never be fluent (not as an ethnic)

I was in a restaurant one night with my bird and a very long term resident was speaking (out of her sight) and she thought it was a Thai. That is an exception to the rule.

Perhaps 1 case in a 100,000 could claim to be fluent or ever hope to become fluent.

And where did you that 1 in 100,000 statistic from? The Big Book of If I Can't Do It, Then Only 1 in 100,000 Can? My wife who is Thai, knows several farangs who can speak Thai like a native. And that's just in Chiangmai.

[butterisbetter]

you go to school?

try to self study 1-2 hours everyday and it will take you a year and you fluent speaking..

BS, he might be able to make himself understood BUT he will never be fluent (not as an ethnic)

I was in a restaurant one night with my bird and a very long term resident was speaking (out of her sight) and she thought it was a Thai. That is an exception to the rule.

Perhaps 1 case in a 100,000 could claim to be fluent or ever hope to become fluent.

This old one again. What do you mean by fluent--native speaker? Agreed, he cannot become a native speaker (kind of goes against the definition) but fluent just means that it is flowing and not broken. I can do everything I need to at the bank, government offices, stores all in Thai, usually without hitch. I meet people and we hang out, sometimes for hours on end, all in Thai and I think in Thai while doing so. I do forget words, don't know them, or mess up grammar or tones sometimes, but then.....fluently.....I ask people what the word for that thing is, if the tone is right, etc. That is "fluent." It is far from native.

And the guy you overheard at the restaurant speaks with "near native fluency," based on your description.

Just as an example everyone knows....ever heard jackie Chan speak English? He is fluent (you could analyze it and determine what level of fluency he has if you were his teacher or something), but he is not a native speaker. He can have 30 minute to hour-long TV interview in English and you aren't sitting there waiting as he scratches his head for several minutes waiting on words. He just talks, relatively smoothly,, with some inconsequential errors. He is fluent.

The Oxford Dictionary disagrees with you about the definition of fluent. As does virtually every other English Dictionary I've consulted online.

[dao16]

you go to school?

try to self study 1-2 hours everyday and it will take you a year and you fluent speaking..

BS, he might be able to make himself understood BUT he will never be fluent (not as an ethnic)

I was in a restaurant one night with my bird and a very long term resident was speaking (out of her sight) and she thought it was a Thai. That is an exception to the rule.

Perhaps 1 case in a 100,000 could claim to be fluent or ever hope to become fluent.

This old one again. What do you mean by fluent--native speaker? Agreed, he cannot become a native speaker (kind of goes against the definition) but fluent just means that it is flowing and not broken. I can do everything I need to at the bank, government offices, stores all in Thai, usually without hitch. I meet people and we hang out, sometimes for hours on end, all in Thai and I think in Thai while doing so. I do forget words, don't know them, or mess up grammar or tones sometimes, but then.....fluently.....I ask people what the word for that thing is, if the tone is right, etc. That is "fluent." It is far from native.

And the guy you overheard at the restaurant speaks with "near native fluency," based on your description.

Just as an example everyone knows....ever heard jackie Chan speak English? He is fluent (you could analyze it and determine what level of fluency he has if you were his teacher or something), but he is not a native speaker. He can have 30 minute to hour-long TV interview in English and you aren't sitting there waiting as he scratches his head for several minutes waiting on words. He just talks, relatively smoothly,, with some inconsequential errors. He is fluent.

The Oxford Dictionary disagrees with you about the definition of fluent. As does virtually every other English Dictionary I've consulted online.

No they don't, and neither do the people I have worked with in translation companies, multilingual content providers or ESL/EFL trainers.

Oxford Dictionary

adjective

• 1able to express oneself easily and articulately:a fluent speaker and writer on technical subjects
• able to speak or write a particular foreign language easily and accurately:she became fluent in French and German
• (of a foreign language) spoken accurately and with facility:he spoke fluent Spanish

• 2smoothly graceful and effortless:his style of play was fast and fluent

• 3able to flow freely; fluid:a fluent discharge from the nose

In other words, "flowing and not broken" as I defined it off the top of my head. Notice how even the definitions include things like "she BECAME fluent." There you go. I won't get into the specifics of how language trainers and linguists classify different levels of proficiency.

EDIT--Other dictionaries say basically the same thing. Nice choice of dictionary, though. Oxford is my preferred one, by far.

Also, I am wondering if you were actually responding to the other guy, even though you replied to my response. If so, cheers. If not, read this several times.

Edited October 17, 2013 by dao16

[Jackson86]

in fact, I'm currently learning Thai on my own using an app which I downloaded recently. I guess I have an advantage over most of you coz there are some words that are quite similar to my language.

[khunsuar]

Here is a slightly different spin. I am legally deaf, and so learning to speak Thai has been, shall we say, a major undertaking, with indifferent success. But I keep trying. The other day while my wife and I were waiting for the water taxi. I saw a younger Thai deaf couple, using sign language. To my surprise, I found that is or was or seemed to be modeled closely on the French English system which is used in the USA and known as ASL. It was much easier to converse using SL for me. My wife was totally surprised by the interaction ( she is Thai And doesnt know SL )I was pleased as punch at being able to converse.

[asiamaster]

I feel the southern Thai is easier to learn. They speak it stronger. But maybe that is only for German speaker.

I also have the impression that French learn Thai faster than Germans.

But I might be wrong on both things

The Italians are also pretty good. There is a simple reason for this: most of them don't speak much English either so how else can they communicate with their girlfriends?

[asiamaster]

I have a theory, that the people on this forum who make comments regarding it not being important to learn the Thai language are the exact same people who would complain about someone from another country migrating to their country and not being able to speak their native tongue, most likely English. To be able to live in some Western countries applicants must pass stringent language tests. And so they should.

Not really comparing like with like is it. Almost every foreigner living here has no rights and no permanent right of residence. Thai is a non important world language spoken in one country and useless outside. English is the language of the world and more widely spoken around the world than any other.

Agreed. You may not compare one to the other. We are (mostly) bringing in money and have no rights to free medical care etc.

As for my Thai after living here for 15 years: enough to get by and get what I need. If a Thai wants something from me they should speak English to me - simple as that!

The same can be said for my Malay as I lived in Malaysia and is almost the same as Indonesian.

I do regret not having learned to speak basic Mandarin Chinese.

[NomadJoe]

8 of the last 12 years I have lived here now, and I am embarrassed by how little Thai I have learned, but I try to speak it a lot. I enjoy the reactions. As I have improved, I am more often I getting funny, positive reactions from Thais. I have taken classes in the past and done a bit of self studying. But early on, the most Thai I learned probably came from Thai girlfriends that did not speak great English.

I would say the best method is not to use any one method. A friend of mine swears by childrens instructional videos. He seems to speak Thai pretty well. I plan to do this. Buy a few books and spend a little time with each one every day.

For 200-300B an hour, take a private class at least once a week. Bring notes from conversations you have had where something was said that you didn't understand.

I have taken more of an interest in Thai lately as I feel I will need it for some projects I have planned in the future. Whenever I am around Thai people and there is time to kill, I will ask them how to say something in Thai, then have them repeat it until I get the tone right. They are always very excited that I have an interest. Usually they are happy to help. Here is a little trick...many Thai words,especially words more recently added to their vocabulary, are formed by combining existing words. When you learn to say ice, airplane, helmet, mask, and ambulance, for example, you also learn how to say hard, water, flying, machine, hat, anti-knock, face, cover, nurse, and car. Always try to get the Thai speaker to break down the word for you if it is multi-syllabic.

And don't underestimate what you can learn from other farangs. Most farangs will feel proud about the Thai they have learned and want to share it. I have been lucky to have a couple of friends that speak it quite well and I am always asking them things. Always check pronunciation though, or you will find yourself saying things like "tele-sup" instead of "toh-rá-sàp" like I did. This was not from one of the aforementioned friends)

Here is a little hint; Google translate can now read Thai words for you. I use this a lot if there isn't a Thai around me.

Edited November 15, 2013 by NomadJoe

[SpokaneAl]

I continue forward in attempting to read, write and speak Thai because it just bugs me not being able to communicate beyond simple stuff with the wonderful members of my Thai family. I also dislike being unable to read the simplest of Thai words on signs, papers etc. And although I am only here for six month increments each year, I really want to learn and understand.

I may not achieve these goals but it won't be from a lack of effort. And by the way - for me at least, as an experiment of one, there is no quick easy way to learn the language. Learning involves brute force memorization.

On the plus side, it is nice to walk out my front gate and ask a neighbor or test out a new word or phrase.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited November 16, 2013 by SpokaneAl

[Jumalauta]

I tried to learn Thai few years ago but unfortunatly gave up after half the book . I think the best way to learn Thai is to start at kindergarten level and take it slowly, and to take that toner thing in a more serious manner... Hard work, determination and patience is key issues, as with everything else....
I think that if to start learning sentences about ordering food , asking for directions and what things cost , is a more difficult and confusing way to go in the end.

If I would have the chance to move to the LOS on a permanent basis (please god, help me on that!?), I would undoubtedly go to school at least one hour a day, regardless of how long it would take , for me it's about respect for culture and Thailand and things would get much easier in many ways... I still try to learn some new words when i visit Thailand as a tourist but it feels pointless when I forget most of it when I return to Sweden... Last time i tried to learn how to count and made it to 100, but I have forgotten all about it since I have not visited Thailand in 2 years...

Most immigrants who come here to Sweden do learn the language, but on the other hand, the schooling for immigrants is for free and Swedish is probably more easier to learn than Thai .

I often visited koh mak between 99-03 . The first time I went into a store for shoping supplies , there was two girls behind the counter who looked pretty sour at the time, when I was supossed to pay for the supplies, the girl ask the other girl on something when the other responds " falang som nam naa "
I asked her " som nam naa? " with a smile, because I know what it means... she was so ashamed... Anyway, when I come back after a few days they where very service minded and nice to me with big smiles on their lips...

Trying is better than nothing, so keep up the good work and keep on trying

Cheers!

Edited December 11, 2013 by Jumalauta

[balo]

Lets face it , some people can learn languages easier than others, I speak 2 languages and I understand a bit of German .

Thai is just too complicated for most westerners.

[Scott]

Tonal languages use a different part of the brain than do non-tonal languages and this presents unique challenges for some learners. Some can catch on easily and others not so easily.

I am older now, and I have a harder time actually hearing the tones, so I assume that makes a difference as well.

[Naam]

Tonal languages use a different part of the brain than do non-tonal languages and this presents unique challenges for some learners. Some can catch on easily and others not so easily.

I am older now, and I have a harder time actually hearing the tones, so I assume that makes a difference as well.

you assumption is correct. age and the accompanying reduction of hearing high frequencies is a big problem. my frequency upper range is limited to 12.5 KiloHertz and i have problems to distinguish konsonants when my wife speaks to me sitting only a couple of meters apart. no problems with vowels and most of the time no problems with male voices in the lower frequency range. learning a tonal language is out of question. tried several years ago and failed.

[bocceball1]

in fact, I'm currently learning Thai on my own using an app which I downloaded recently. I guess I have an advantage over most of you coz there are some words that are quite similar to my language.

And which language is that ....Issan?

[transam]

Tonal languages use a different part of the brain than do non-tonal languages and this presents unique challenges for some learners. Some can catch on easily and others not so easily.

I am older now, and I have a harder time actually hearing the tones, so I assume that makes a difference as well.

Yep, the only tones my ol' gray cells recognise are from music............. ................

[Mooner]

Whats the best self taught lessons/programs out there?

[paz]

Whats the best self taught lessons/programs out there?

Without having bought it, from the demo I recognize "High Speed Thai" has got the priorities and method right.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

Tonal languages use a different part of the brain than do non-tonal languages and this presents unique challenges for some learners. Some can catch on easily and others not so easily.

I am older now, and I have a harder time actually hearing the tones, so I assume that makes a difference as well.

you assumption is correct. age and the accompanying reduction of hearing high frequencies is a big problem. my frequency upper range is limited to 12.5 KiloHertz and i have problems to distinguish konsonants when my wife speaks to me sitting only a couple of meters apart. no problems with vowels and most of the time no problems with male voices in the lower frequency range. learning a tonal language is out of question. tried several years ago and failed.

Totally agree. I have terrible problems with my listening skills. I just can't decipher what's being spoken to me. I totally freeze up.

On top of age issues, I damaged my ears by playing too much loud rock music (I was a bass player, and had the same set up as John Entwhistle). But, I'm going to give it one last try anyway. I've lived here 6 1/2 years and know about 50 Thai words. I start lessons in 2 weeks. One last gasp.

[Scott]

Best of luck.

[fifthcolumn]

I cannot understand Southern Thai where despite me living in bkk, Iam most likely to have a conversation.

Wife speaks English very well now, if I were not stuck in bkk, my Thai would be better. Actually much worse since I met her.

Her learning English meant trips abroad. Thai fluency means almost nothing as I can get anything I need with the ability I have.

In all candor, I will go to school for few months and study a bit more this year to avoid embarrassing moments out with the wife when my Thai should be better. A lot on my plate until June.

Don't expect to be discussing Schopenhauer with the next Thai I bump into. That's the thing, sooooo much effort just to cover the basics. Latin language it aint!

I'm starting to think the ability to NOT talk to my inlaws as decent a people as they are, might be a good thing.

And then you decide to leave the country for some years or for good and it's all been a waste of time.

Friend just left China after 12 years, fluent reading and writing. Every minute of study and practice in the bin. He's now chatting up Filipina floozies in some bars in Cebu last I heard. Oh, and learning Tagalog (if that is not an evrn bigger waste of ones life).

Edited January 14, 2014 by fifthcolumn

[SpokaneAl]

For me, the challenge is that when listening to television or conversations, everything must go through a translation process in my head. So even when I do hear a familiar word or phrase, translate that in my head, and figure out part of what was said, the speaker is long gone and on to another subject by that time.

It happens regularly when my Thai family is sitting around talking and I am trying to follow. They instantly jump from one subject to a completely unrelated subject. I will comment on something said long after they have moved on to a new discussion. Fortunately they seem to have patience when it comes to dealing with the weird old uncle.

And still I plod along with my almost daily Thai lessons . . .

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app