Foreigner !

[GuestHouse]

And of course everything that is wrong in Thailand is wrong because the Thais were not subjected to the largesse of European Colonial Conquest.

[benalibina]

And of course everything that is wrong in Thailand is wrong because the Thais were not subjected to the largesse of European Colonial Conquest.

What is wrong in Thailand according to you ?

[Naam]

Just give us some examples, which of the dozens of incredibly corrupt, bloody and cruel dictatorships in Africa shall we consider "the other side" and shall listen to?

Of course it is not only the anti-colonial fighters from Africa you may consider, but it is also worth to mention the great anti-colonial fighter in Asia, named Pol Pot.

He's perhaps not well enough to give you his side of the view, but I'm sure Nelson Mandela would have something to teach you.

As would the Boars - read some history on the fine and upstanding British treatment of the Boars, or more precisely the women and children of Boar fighters who were incarcerated in concentration camps - starvation of civilian families a British weapon of war.

Remind me GS, which colonial power was Pol Pot fighting?

Pol Pot was fighting an invasion of aliens from the Delta Quadrant who were called "Green Snappers" because they snapped up all the greens from Cambodian vegetable gardens/fields and caused terrible hardship to the indigenous population.

later Pol Pot received the Peace Gobble Prize but neighbouring envious Viet Nam didn't like it, invaded Cambodia and took the prize to Ha Noi.

as opposed to other sources, it is believed that Pol Pot is now residing as a retiree in Pattaya.

[Thai at Heart]

Islam is a religion...not a race

 

Race does not need to exist for racism to exist. People do not need to belong to a given race for us to be racist against them. Racism is not about race, it is about identifying groups (or tribes, or separate populations) (whether real or imaginary) and exhibiting prejudice against them

Does a statement cease to be prejudicial if it is in the vast majority, true?

When Hitler referred to all Jews as an inferior species that must be stamped out, & the majority of the German people -- at least publically -- agreed, was his statement not still prejudicial?

Where would the proof be for inferior?

But if you hear people saying derogatory things about you regularly and no one around them stands up to say, "Oi, don't be rude?", wouldn't that pass as meaning that many also agree?

Put it like this, not all the people of anywhere are racists, but it is a massive issue if no one also stands up to disagree with the statement.

If someone stands in my pub and says in ear shot of my missus, "Thai women are hookers", how should I react?

Edited October 19, 2013 by Thai at Heart

[SeabagsFull]

You should remember when the British colonisied these countries they also built hospitals,communications,roads,houses and many other things that benefited the native people. Even today the only parts of Africa that have a reasonable standard of living are the parts that used to be colonised.

Take Egypt.Cairo was built and modernised by the British.Now the Egyptians benefit from it. The Suez canal was built and paid for by the British. Now the Egyptians benefit from it.

Britain has given the world so much. The television set you watch was invented by Britain.The jet engine that flew you to Thailand is British.The language you speak is British. etc.etc......even the Computer you are using right now was invented by the British.The world should be grateful to Britain for giving them so much.

This is the view from one side of the Colonist / Colonised relationship.

In the interest of balanced argument you should spend time examining the view from other side while keeping in mind who wrote the history you've been taught.

What a novel concept GuestHouse, to consider both sides of an argument!

I've noticed the elitist (sorry, no derogatory labels) Behaviorists are suddenly out in force making posts to this thread.

I understand all the supposed "plusses" that the invading colonialists brought to underdeveloped countries. Sort of like white westerners bringing civilization to African slaves, Europeans cultivating American Indians, Crusaders bringing the fear of God almighty to the rest of Europe, etc. I mean, isn't this what we're talking about?

I keep thinking about the movie "Avatar." Or about the English's looking down on Thailand's King IV in Chow Yun Fat & Jodie Foster's "The King & I."

My wife & Thai pilot friend remind me that Thailand's cultural uniqueness & beauty are in part due to their never having been colonized. While patrolling in the dessert between Iraq & Kuwait, I once asked my Thai friend how it was even possible that Thailand escaped what all its neighbors had to endure; he suggested that Thai people were like a tree that bends with the wind, that sometimes you have to cut off an arm to save the body.

So what if the English had not colonized most of SE Asia & other parts of the world? Is it possible that, without the tension & built-up resentment from peoples everywhere, that change would have occurred more peacefully & lovingly? Sure, the culture lag (i.e., time it takes for technological advances, inventions, & social change to reach everywhere) may have been greater, but how much more evolved would humans be today if The Crusaders, e.g., had never marched across Europe & the Middle East killing so many people & strengthening both the rage & will of Muslims? Would the world be at peace now?

We are more apt to want to follow with open minds the lead of powers who aren't fearful, who don't force their will on us. Invaders, on the other hand, never get true loyalty from their conquests. The conquered find ways to hang onto their culture (e.g., black slaves had their songs), always abiding with a built up anger that eventually explodes. It is no wonder that our planet is so full of hatred & war & oppression today.

[Fookhaht]

I now understand why immigrants drive the way they do in my home country.

Sent from my tin can via string.

[Naam]

When Hitler referred to all Jews as an inferior species that must be stamped out, & the majority of the German people -- at least publically -- agreed, was his statement not still prejudicial?

you were in Germany then and witnessed the public agreement?

[GuestHouse]

And of course everything that is wrong in Thailand is wrong because the Thais were not subjected to the largesse of European Colonial Conquest.

What is wrong in Thailand according to you ?

Its a rhetorical argument - it is not a statement of wrong things about Thailand.

There are wrong things about everywhere - but in a discussion in which one side take the view Colonialism was a good thing brought about by advanced and civilised nations who have colonised the nations of primitive people (an argument that has been made in this thread), then the use of this particular rhetorical arguments does two things:

1. I brings the discussion back into the Thailand related

2. I raises the ridiculousness of of the argument 'Civilised Westerners colonising and improving the lot of primitive peoples'.

What I had failed to take into account is the constant presence of people eager to spot the slightest perceived insult to Thailand.

Rest assured benalabina - there is non, far from it.

My argument is exactly that colonialism has had nothing at all to offer Thailand and that Thailand is a better place for not having been colonised by the west.

[GuestHouse]

Having said that - the legacy of the Colonialist attitudes do persist and have clearly been brought into Thailand amongst the myriad baggage that many expats in Thailand arrive with.

Edited October 20, 2013 by GuestHouse

[David48]

Australia is incredibly lucky to have so few refugees compared to European countries.

The numbers arriving are a tiny, tiny percentage of our population.

... with a little research.

jackflash, I make no comment on a personal basis ... just some facts

From a factual basis, a good thought is to compare the number of Refugees per 'native'

Australia actually does quite well on a world basis.

The World average is 685 'natives' per Refugee.

Australia, at 1,001 'natives' per Refugee we are above the World Average, but you might be surprised who we lead in the compassion stakes.

USA, at 1,197 'natives' per Refugee

New Zealand at 2291 ...

But behind the UK who accommodate 319 'natives' per Refugee

Sweden is a magnet ... 107 'natives' per Refugee

So, the facts reveal that we are about the middle of the pack.

EDIT ...

Opps ... forgot the Reference

Edited October 20, 2013 by David48

[David48]

Cast your mind back to Britain before the 'curse of immigration'.... Let's be brutally honest now.... The food was <deleted>.

Sorry to remind you but.... White pepper, fresh garlic near impossible to find, but you could get garlic salt.

The best meal in town started with onion soup followed by an over cooked (and tough steak) which you had to have with mushroom sauce, followed by black forrest gateau all washed down with a bottle of sour Liebfraumilch - you might, if you are lucky, get a fresh brewed coffee (been standing on the hot plate for three hours) if you were in a posh restaurant - Posh equals a few french names in the restaurant and floss wall paper.

The local cafe was a treat, mugs of tea out of an earn, chicory laced coffee and a bowl of sugar at the counter, full of lumps of tea/coffee stained sugar and a communal teaspoon secured on the end of a piece of string.

Three choices of sandwiches, all on thin plain white bread with margarine - cheese and onion, ham, and fish paste.

Something exotic - spaghetti out of a tin or a Dried Vesta Chinese out a box.

And all that if you were treating yourself by eating out.

Otherwise the you could stay home and have over cooked vegetables served up with meat that would not be allowed to be sold anywhere else in Europe.

GH ... stop ... you're bringing me to tears reminiscing of the good old days ...

.

[HeijoshinCool]

Australia is incredibly lucky to have so few refugees compared to European countries.

The numbers arriving are a tiny, tiny percentage of our population.

... with a little research.

jackflash, I make no comment on a personal basis ... just some facts

From a factual basis, a good thought is to compare the number of Refugees per 'native'

Australia actually does quite well on a world basis.

The World average is 685 'natives' per Refugee.

Australia, at 1,001 'natives' per Refugee we are above the World Average, but you might be surprised who we lead in the compassion stakes.

USA, at 1,197 'natives' per Refugee

New Zealand at 2291 ...

But behind the UK who accommodate 319 'natives' per Refugee

Sweden is a magnet ... 107 'natives' per Refugee

So, the facts reveal that we are about the middle of the pack.

Interesting info. I'm going to look it up.

In the meantime, glad I'm not Swedish.

[Paangjang]

Guest House.

In times gone by migrants to the UK were totally different than they are today.

Nowadays the influx is from,the EU claiming welfare,and working farm labour,illegally.

Then sending money home,for the rest of the extended family to join them,and the cycle continues.

Schools in the midlands have have a far greater percentage of non native English speakers,to native speakers,thus causing harm to the education system,in those areas.

As to the law,how is it a person of a certain religion can wear a turban whilst riding a motorcycle,but I can't.

There are basically to many foreigners in the UK and it is undermining the general harmony.

It is time a firmer stance was taken.

Something along the lines of Thai immigration,would do fine.

Very well said. Many moan about the 800k rule/visa runs etc. However i would more than welcome those sorts of rules to the uk immi...

[Naam]

Having said that - the legacy of the Colonialist attitudes do persist and have clearly been brought into Thailand amongst the myriad baggage that many expats in Thailand arrive with.

a zillion postings in Thaivisa are evidence that your claim is correct

[ableguy]

I don't take social housing,healthcare,state handouts,from Thailand.

Unlike the ever increasing amount of migrants to the UK, some legal,many alleged asylum seekers.

They bring nothing with them and abuse every avenue available to them to gain financially.

They are slowly bringing the country to its knees.

That you dont accept state help from Thailand is commendable, but hardly the point given you aren't an asylum seeker here

asylum seekers by their very nature have nothing to bring with them, (if you mean material things)

that they supposedly "abuse" every avenue?-these avenues are legal and necessary-wouldnt you seek financial help too given you were in the same position?

They are bringing the country to its knees? That sort of hyperbole just doesnt stack up with the facts.

Joseph Heller wrote in his celebrated novel "Catch 22" when in the middle of a bombardment in WW2 an old man was telling the young man about why he wouldnt stand and fight;

"Because it's better to die on one's feet than live on one's knees," Nately retorted with triumphant and lofty conviction. "I guess you've heard that saying before."

"Yes, I certainly have," mused the treacherous old man, smiling again. "But I'm afraid you have it backward. It is better to live on one's feet than die on one's knees. That is the way the saying goes."

"Are you sure?" Nately asked with sober confusion. "It seems to make more sense my way."

"No, it makes more sense my way. Ask your friends."

Asylum seekers think like that too-they have nothing left to lose.

You do not mention in your tirade economic migrants .... Why?

[ableguy]

Cast your mind back to Britain before the 'curse of immigration'.... Let's be brutally honest now.... The food was <deleted>.

Sorry to remind you but.... White pepper, fresh garlic near impossible to find, but you could get garlic salt.

The best meal in town started with onion soup followed by an over cooked (and tough steak) which you had to have with mushroom sauce, followed by black forrest gateau all washed down with a bottle of sour Liebfraumilch - you might, if you are lucky, get a fresh brewed coffee (been standing on the hot plate for three hours) if you were in a posh restaurant - Posh equals a few french names in the restaurant and floss wall paper.

The local cafe was a treat, mugs of tea out of an earn, chicory laced coffee and a bowl of sugar at the counter, full of lumps of tea/coffee stained sugar and a communal teaspoon secured on the end of a piece of string.

Three choices of sandwiches, all on thin plain white bread with margarine - cheese and onion, ham, and fish paste.

Something exotic - spaghetti out of a tin or a Dried Vesta Chinese out a box.

And all that if you were treating yourself by eating out.

Otherwise the you could stay home and have over cooked vegetables served up with meat that would not be allowed to be sold anywhere else in Europe.

GH ... stop ... you're bringing me to tears reminiscing of the good old days ...

.

Where the hell were you dragged up ?????

[wilcopops]

No ,it hasn't changed my attitude at all .

I am English , but lived in Italy for a number of years befor moving to Thailand .

I have no problem with people of a more advanced culture coming to my country , contributing through work or simply of independent means .

People who appreciate the culture of my country and willing to adopt the British way of life . In Italy I lived in a small rural village , lived as my Italian neighbours do and spoke the language fluently . In Thailand I have given my wife a beautiful comfortable home , I have financially improved her lifestyle and that of her family . I respect the Thai culture and lifstyle and do not try to force western culture on my wife and her family .

What I object to , is primitive people migrating illegaly , who have nothing to offer , but seek to be dependent on the social benefits of my country and other European countries . Leaving racism out of it , many of these people are Moslim , want to exercise their religion , introduce sharia law and have their women dressed in black from head to foot , that is quite different .

QED - a series of completely fallacious premises renders this post devoid of any valid content.

[wilcopops]

Toscano - "primitive people migrating illegaly" - primitive people? Are you inferring they are some kind of inferior race to yourself?

[benalibina]

Guest House.

In times gone by migrants to the UK were totally different than they are today.

Nowadays the influx is from,the EU claiming welfare,and working farm labour,illegally.

Then sending money home,for the rest of the extended family to join them,and the cycle continues.

Schools in the midlands have have a far greater percentage of non native English speakers,to native speakers,thus causing harm to the education system,in those areas.

As to the law,how is it a person of a certain religion can wear a turban whilst riding a motorcycle,but I can't.

There are basically to many foreigners in the UK and it is undermining the general harmony.

It is time a firmer stance was taken.

Something along the lines of Thai immigration,would do fine.

Very well said. Many moan about the 800k rule/visa runs etc. However i would more than welcome those sorts of rules to the uk immi...

For the purpose of.......?

[dighambara]

Must agree with Jasun!

In my country ( USA ) even ilegal forigners can work, earn a pretty good living, get government assistance if needed .

"Liberty and Justice for all."

In thailand it's " Liberty and Just us, that's all!"

But, I must State that I knew Thailand was this way long before I arrived, was this way when I arrived, and will reamain this way.

I still choose to be here!

The US is much more fair than most Europeans realize. For example, under law everyone has had free medical care for nearly a century, just that it was via Emergency Rooms, wherin if you gave them a real name and address, you were billed - no address or no money = no payment.... On the topic of European misunderstanding of the non-existent American Racism or Genocide, one could write the truth for hours and no European would believe him.

[wilcopops]

When Hitler referred to all Jews as an inferior species that must be stamped out, & the majority of the German people -- at least publically -- agreed, was his statement not still prejudicial?

you were in Germany then and witnessed the public agreement?

What a facetious question! My family were in both UK and Germany in both wars, I don't rely on just their accounts, i rely on histories etc...if you don't understand the rise of fascism in Germany and how it can happen in other countries even today then must suggest you review your history and attitude before posting glib questions like that....they are offensive to those who suffered both inside and out Germany during that terrible time.

Edited October 25, 2013 by wilcopops