Abused And Attacked In 24 Hour Restaurant in Soi Ram Butri - Banglamphu

[bulmercke]

Hi everyone - I thought I would let you know about my very bad experience in Khoa San Road yesterday. Around two o'clock in the afternoon I visited a 24 hour restaurant in Soi Ram Butri - off KSR - and ordered a beer and food. As I normally do I asked for a glass of ice to drink with the beer which was served politely to me by the waiter. However when I asked for a third glass of ice - the glasses were very small - the woman taking orders (the owner's daughter) told me abruptly that it would cost me five baht. I then asked her politely as to why she was charging me when I had already ordered two large bottles of beer and food. With this and without any warning she went into a violent and abusive rage toward me - shouting and yelling - calling me everything under the sun and screaming at me to get out of the restaurant while at the same time she started throwing everything within her reach at me - papper napkin holder - menu holder - ash tray - whatever. The waiter then came between us and she backed off. He asked me to pay the bill and go quickly even though my drink wasn't finished. I said I would pay the bill but insisted I finish the drink on principle. A few moments later the woman again approached me but this time she was brandishing a machete and threatening to attack me.

I then quickly paid the bill and left the restaurant. I then went to ChanaSongkran police station and reported the incident to the officers on duty there. About ten minutes later I accompanied an officer back to the restaurant but instead of receiving an apology - which is all I was asking for - I was instead subjected to a volley of nasty and vitriolic abuse by not only the woman who had attacked me but also her mother - and all this in the presence of the uniformed patrol officer who looked very embarrassed and uncomfortable.

After about ten minutes of enduring this stream of vitriol and abuse the officer and myself returned to the police station. The officer then reported the situation to a senior officer and upon hearing this the three of us returned to the restaurant together. Upon returning the woman and her mother continued to threaten me and call me everything under the sun in Thai. The only difference this time was that the owner of the restuarant was now seated there. To his credit he appeared to be reconciliatory and apologised to me for the woman's behaviour and actions. However - even though I shook his hand and accepted his apology I told the police that what I really wanted was for her - his daughter I think - to apologise to me. That's all I wanted and if she apologised I wouldn't press the matter any further and wouldn't file a complaint.

But she firmly refused and continued ranting and raging together with her mother and there was real hatred in their eyes - I guess because I had had the temerity to return with the police. The two officers then indicated we should all leave the restaurant. Outside the restaurant they then both got on their motorcycle and headed in the direction of the police station without saying anything to me. I think by their actions they simply wanted me to go away and not cause any further 'trouble' for them or the restaurant. Anyway - I walked the short distance back to the police station and again asked to file a police report and official complaint.

But when I re-entered the police station I was surprised to see a woman officer from the tourist police there. I explained to her what had happened to me about an hour earlier and about ten minutes later - together with the station chief and the other senior officer - all four of us returned in a police car to the restaurant although at this time I was worried about my personal safety. They parked outside the restaurant and the two senior officers went into the restaurant. I remained seated in the car with the officer from the tourist police. After about thirty minutes the two officers returned to the car. They then spoke to the woman officer. They told her that the woman who had attacked me was no longer in the restaurant. She then told me that they (the officers) thought I was in the right. And that was it. I never did get an apology from the woman who had attacked me despite three consecutive visits to the restaurant accompanied by the police. Back at the police station the officers refused to do a police report for me. Instead I was given directions to the naerby Tourist Police office on Ratchadamnoen Avenue where I was advised to file a report. And then the Tourist Police Officer left the police staion before I had had a proper chance to talk to her again.


(Earlier I remarked to the tourist officer that I had beforehand tried to call the tourist police but hadn't been able to get through and speak to anyone in person. She mentioned that she had only heard about my case by chance when visiting the police station on a routine afternoon patrol. She also remarked that previously the tourist police had had their own office at Chanasongkran police station but after the renovations at the station there was no longer any room for their office. Unbelievable.)


>>>>>>>>>>>

In short - my only conclusion following what happened to me is that this particular restaurant appears to be above the law. Not only did they attack - abuse and intimidate me but they also appeared to have intimidated the police to some extent. Obviously money still talks big time in this mafia controlled area.

[Dr Robert]

That's an unfortunate incident and it must have been rather frightening, though you bravely (maybe too courageously) stood your ground.

I guess the take home message from your tale is that there is not much support if you are not Thai.

If its Thai v Foreigner, there really is little you can do, as infuriatingly unjust as it is; Thais support each other right or wrong

A timely reminder of the importance of 'face" and maintaining it in deference to yourself (and in staying healthy).

Very interesting and well written post-thanks for sharing

Edited October 17, 2013 by Dr Robert

[HeavyDrinker]

Three questions springs to mind at once.

1) Had you ever been in there previously and possibly (inadvertently) caused offence to the young woman? (You could even have resembled someone who had done so in the past - I know a few people, especially in that area who have been victims of mistaken identity).

2) How much did you understand of what was going on?

3) Have you omitted any details here? (quite a common occurrence in threads like this)

Firstly, I think you made a mountain out of a molehill with the police. You should have just paid up and left and carried on your afternoon elsewhere. Would have been easier all round.

If this lass just took a dislike to you for no reason though then it's vile behaviour...but something just doesn't sit right.

If she is of the bent of attacking her customers willy-nilly, one would have expected to have heard more of this sportswoman on these pages or elsewhere....but I haven't...

I must admit I have a certain amount of sympathy for people working in the service industry in the Banglamphu area.

Wages are piss-poor and tips are not as forthcoming as they are in other tourist districts. In spite of continual claims the area is going upmarket, most tourists there are still very much of the "budget" mindset.

Little or no staff training is given to staff there who simply don't have the tools, culturally, linguistically or experience-wise to deal with situations which would be commonplace for most people to deal with.

Many people working there, started there hoping to get a foothold onto bigger and better things which rarely happens and there are a lot of disillusioned people working there.

The customers tend to expect (demand?) Western standards of service and product even though they're paying absolute peanuts. Its certainly not rare to see someone make a fuss if they don't receive it. I once saw a woman return a 50B plate of fried rice FIVE times because it "wasn't right'' - she was lucky to escape with her dreadlocks still on her head from the normally polite staff. There is one lass works there who makes the old heart flutter every time I see her, so charming is she, but even she was after blood that day.

For smaller businesses, seating can be of a premium, Having someone sitting there nursing a couple of cheap ales and a plate of Pad Thai for three hours doesn't translate well in the profit margins which can cause consternation.

It is a high pressure place to work. It's busy, noisy, crowded, dirty, hot and 95% of the time the staff there are working with customers who have little or no understanding or respect of their culture or language.

This has created a certain culture of contempt among staff towards the tourists in the KSRd area, who are seen as dirty, smelly, rude, fussy and worse of all, tight-fisted. I used to hang out there quite a lot and was asked on an almost hourly basis why 'rich' tourists (and we're all rich in their eyes regardless of travel budget) always make a fuss over trifling amounts of money...

Tales like yours used to be/probably still are very common on the old Lonely Planet Thorn Tree forum back in the day.

"Don't go to such and such a place, the staff were rude to us" was the common mantra by the people making the complaints. However they'd often be omitting the basic details such as how they'd bawled out some poor uneducated, untrained kid earning 30B an hour for a minor mistake in a guesthouse costing a few dollars a night....

[tinhead]

What a waste of police resources all in the name of getting an apology. Suck it up, Buttercup.

[mancub]

P.M.T......Happens the world over .

[richard_smith237]

Good on you... You were verbally insulted (not really a big deal) and nearly physically attacked...

Next time it might be someone else who is attacked and injured...

For those saying mountain out of a molehill... It might be them or their friend or loved on attacked.

For taking the extra step and making effort to formally lodge a complain this girl might think twice in future... Or she might not, regardless you have done the right thing.

It's good to read that the BiB supported you, although being Thailand I doubt there is much they could do without her actually inflicting physical harm (a weird chink in Thai law)...

[smokie36]

Five baht?

Jeez.....!

[ThaidDown]

While I agree with the post by Richard_smith237 after the verbal abuse and threat of attack had occurred, I agree more with Smokies post.

I do not know if the type of 'restaurant' is one where you would expect to pay for ice but on the advice that the next glass of ice was going to cost me an extra 5 baht my reaction would have been 'no problem'.

Now it is up to the individual to decide whether to ever visit that establishment again, or accept that on future visits a third glass of ice may incur a 5Baht charge.

The amount of time and shoe leather you must have used was worth more than the additional price.

Just my opinion.

[HeavyDrinker]

Good on you... You were verbally insulted (not really a big deal) and nearly physically attacked...

We only have his word on that score. Without knowing the full story it's difficult to make a call on the incident.

I've heard/read too many of these tales of allegedly rude or abusive staff only for the author to later come out with something like:

"well, now I come to think of it I may have told her I'd take her out on a date/told her to &*#^ off/called her mother a walrus; when I was in there a few days earlier but I was too pissed to remember it..."

I do not know if the type of 'restaurant' is one where you would expect to pay for ice but on the advice that the next glass of ice was going to cost me an extra 5 baht my reaction would have been 'no problem'.

Indeed. I bet she thought "please! not another tight-arsed tourist quibbling over a few baht" and went off to fetch her throwing gloves and swearing dictionary.

Edited October 17, 2013 by HeavyDrinker

[taotoo]

"Obviously money still talks big time in this mafia controlled area."

I'm only surprised they didn't call in Joe Pesci to extract the 5 baht from you.

[chuang]

Most restaurants charge for ice, usually in a bucket.. you are in a foreign land and you started a fuss about 5 baht..the staff you said was rude and aggressive ,any sane person would just back off instead of creating more trouble, she must have a reason for acting such.

You wasted others resources and time and refused to accept an apology from the owner, saying it's a matter of 'PRINCIPLE'..my foot.

Even in the animal kingdom the king of beast knows when to back off in a confrontation..you think you are a hero...

[Pomthai]

Why the hell are you watering down a perfectly good beer with ice? Learn from this hideous mistake and ensure you order cold beer in the first place.

[richard_smith237]

Most restaurants charge for ice, usually in a bucket.. you are in a foreign land and you started a fuss about 5 baht..the staff you said was rude and aggressive ,any sane person would just back off instead of creating more trouble, she must have a reason for acting such.

You wasted others resources and time and refused to accept an apology from the owner, saying it's a matter of 'PRINCIPLE'..my foot.

Even in the animal kingdom the king of beast knows when to back off in a confrontation..you think you are a hero...

Please don't come back on this forum and complain if in the future you are insulted or attacked...,

The Op may have deserved it, that doesn't make her actions right. No accountably or responsibility results in these actions continuing unchecked...

I do wonder what's causes some to defend those who go off the rails... So, it was 5 baht, It could have been a dirty glass.... It could have been anything... The customer has a right to provide feed back... It's not the shops right (or anyone in it) to abuse or attack a customer...

The girls actions were wrong, the BiB agreed. There is no moral defense even from the 'Thai's can do no wrong crowd'....

I do agree that there could be more to the story i.e. the Op looks like another customer who behaved badly... . Or he inadvertently insulted the girl... But wouldn't the police then take her side instead if returning to the shop a number of times?

[arminbkk]

This would not have happened to me as I would have just said "ok" to the 5 baht charge.

On a less relevant note: I would not order a beer at 2 in the afternoon.

[varun]

At the end of the day, it boiled down to an extra 5 baht glass of ice, which was the tipping point.

Regardless of the women's reaction that was completely unjustified,

"I then asked her politely as to why she was charging me when I had already ordered two large bottles of beer and food"

Look at this from another angle; you didn't want to pay an extra 5 baht for a 3rd glass of ice (the first two of which were free), when you'd already spent an excess of 150 baht or thereabouts for a meal and 2 large beers? Would an extra 5 baht really make that much of a difference?

I've heard of a Cheap Charlie, but in your case, Cheap-sh** Charlie would be a title more befitting of your actions.

Lastly, it is quite common is drinking establishments / restaurants to charge extra for ice, this is nothing new and has always been the case.

[grantbkk]

Behind many Thai smiles sits a simmering homicidal maniac. You definitely owe the police an apology for wasting their time. This is one of the very few positive Thai police tales ever written on Thai Visa.

To not walk away from a misunderstanding over a 5 Baht fee to stand on a misguided principal is simply insane. You could have been seriously injured or worse and changed the course of several lives.

You and I are guests here and I do not appreciate your stand, which amounts to finishing your beer no matter who dies. Dumb move. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[HeavyDrinker]

I do wonder what's causes some to defend those who go off the rails... So, it was 5 baht, It could have been a dirty glass.... It could have been anything... The customer has a right to provide feed back... It's not the shops right (or anyone in it) to abuse or attack a customer...

I don't think anyone's defending her, especially if the reaction described was for no reason. In this case however, given the factors I've provided above plus the apparent fact that this is all over a mere 5B, there can be an amount of understanding as to her reaction. Now we await to see if there was more to this than just the 5B....

I do agree that there could be more to the story i.e. the Op looks like another customer who behaved badly... . Or he inadvertently insulted the girl... But wouldn't the police then take her side instead if returning to the shop a number of times?

Sometimes the police here actually do their job and act on reports of a possible criminal act until, as in this case, they realised it was a load of fuss over nothing and palmed it off to the Tourist Police .

[impulse]

She went into a violent and abusive rage toward me - shouting and yelling - calling me everything under the sun and screaming at me to get out of the restaurant while at the same time she started throwing everything within her reach at me - paper napkin holder - menu holder - ash tray - whatever. ..... I said I would pay the bill but insisted I finish the drink on principle.

Can you see where that may have been poor judgment on your part? I suspect that's how the stories started where one guy was recently hacked to death for $1.60 and another guy was stabbed to death for not getting off the stage.

You may have been in the right. Could have easily been dead right.

We're not in Kansas any more Dorothy.

Edited October 17, 2013 by impulse

[Briggsy]

This isn't the restaurant on Soi Rambuttri with the sign up saying something along the lines of, "Please vacate your table after finishing your meal," is it?

If so, the meals are very cheap 30 Baht or so and they always have problems with backpackers sitting at their tables for hours thinking it is okay having spent 30 Baht creating a profit for the restaurant of about 8 Baht.

[rgs2001uk]

Is it just me, after being helped not once but three times by the police, I see no mention of a donation to the policemans ball fund being made, not that it would have been asked for.

I would certainly put my hand in my pocket and forked out for a bag of goodies.

Cheap Charlie sounds about right, maybe the melee had him confused and he forgot his manners.

Why didnt the OP order a bucket of ice, they cost about 10 baht.

[Curt1591]

That neighborhood is ground zero for cheap ass backpackers. You were probably the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.

It is getting pretty common for many restaurants to charge for ice, no matter what you buy. They have to buy it; why shouldn't you?

[sms747]

Indeed. I bet she thought "please! not another tight-arsed tourist quibbling over a few baht" and went off to fetch her throwing gloves and swearing dictionary.

Most Thais will make a fuss over 5 baht, the guy was just playing their own game, they don't like it up 'em! Having somebody threatening you with a meat cleaver is quite nasty and he was right to go to the Police. She should have been charged with threatening behaviour.

[I Like Thai]

On the face of it, it seems like very bad behaviour from the Thai girl.

But what do you expect the police to do ? Lock her in jail for throwing a tantrum ?

[impulse]

Keep in mind the police may never see the OP again.

On the other hand, they'll be dealing with the "crazy lady" and her kids and their kids and... forever. Probably just like they dealt with the crazy lady's mother before her when she owned the place before passing it down.

I don't know what a reasonable person would expect the police to do in a "he said- she said" situation on home turf where no blood was spilt and the victim just wanted an apology.

Especially when the victim is an unknown and the accused has been a neighbor all her life.

Edited October 17, 2013 by impulse

[nottocus]

All that fuss over 5 baht? And then all that wasted time with the police?

Man...I would've been to another bar by then, maybe gone for a quick bj somewhere, visited the Bob Marley Bar, and been home in bed in herbal induced sleep by the time you had finished.

[bulmercke]

Three questions springs to mind at once.

1) Had you ever been in there previously and possibly (inadvertently) caused offence to the young woman? (You could even have resembled someone who had done so in the past - I know a few people, especially in that area who have been victims of mistaken identity).

2) How much did you understand of what was going on?

3) Have you omitted any details here? (quite a common occurrence in threads like this)

Firstly, I think you made a mountain out of a molehill with the police. You should have just paid up and left and carried on your afternoon elsewhere. Would have been easier all round.

If this lass just took a dislike to you for no reason though then it's vile behaviour...but something just doesn't sit right.

If she is of the bent of attacking her customers willy-nilly, one would have expected to have heard more of this sportswoman on these pages or elsewhere....but I haven't...

I must admit I have a certain amount of sympathy for people working in the service industry in the Banglamphu area.

Wages are piss-poor and tips are not as forthcoming as they are in other tourist districts. In spite of continual claims the area is going upmarket, most tourists there are still very much of the "budget" mindset.

Little or no staff training is given to staff there who simply don't have the tools, culturally, linguistically or experience-wise to deal with situations which would be commonplace for most people to deal with.

Many people working there, started there hoping to get a foothold onto bigger and better things which rarely happens and there are a lot of disillusioned people working there.

The customers tend to expect (demand?) Western standards of service and product even though they're paying absolute peanuts. Its certainly not rare to see someone make a fuss if they don't receive it. I once saw a woman return a 50B plate of fried rice FIVE times because it "wasn't right'' - she was lucky to escape with her dreadlocks still on her head from the normally polite staff. There is one lass works there who makes the old heart flutter every time I see her, so charming is she, but even she was after blood that day.

For smaller businesses, seating can be of a premium, Having someone sitting there nursing a couple of cheap ales and a plate of Pad Thai for three hours doesn't translate well in the profit margins which can cause consternation.

It is a high pressure place to work. It's busy, noisy, crowded, dirty, hot and 95% of the time the staff there are working with customers who have little or no understanding or respect of their culture or language.

This has created a certain culture of contempt among staff towards the tourists in the KSRd area, who are seen as dirty, smelly, rude, fussy and worse of all, tight-fisted. I used to hang out there quite a lot and was asked on an almost hourly basis why 'rich' tourists (and we're all rich in their eyes regardless of travel budget) always make a fuss over trifling amounts of money...

Tales like yours used to be/probably still are very common on the old Lonely Planet Thorn Tree forum back in the day.

"Don't go to such and such a place, the staff were rude to us" was the common mantra by the people making the complaints. However they'd often be omitting the basic details such as how they'd bawled out some poor uneducated, untrained kid earning 30B an hour for a minor mistake in a guesthouse costing a few dollars a night....

Hi HD - in reply to your post - (1) yes my wife and I visited the restaurant in May of this year but on that occasion we sat at one of the dozen or so outside tables across from the restaurant. (2) No, I couldn't understand everything that was said between the police and the restaurant but I certainly understood almost all the insults that were directed at me at me in Thai. (3) Yes - I guess I have inadvertently omitted a couple of things that upon reflection caused have been contributory factors in setting this woman off like she did. When I arrived at the restaurant it was raining very heavily - torrential rain - and I took shelter under the restaurant's roof which extends out a little over the road. The soi was virtually empty and so was the restaurant which was unusual and I remarked to the woman and another serving girl that they wouldn't have any customers today if it continued like this. With this the woman who attacked me gave me a disparaging look - snubbed her nose at me and walked back inside the restaurant. Absolutely no offence was meant by me but maybe she took it the wrong way. I don't know. The only other thing that could have upset her was with me taking a few seconds of video from my table of the restaurant using my mobile. I panned from the inside to the soi outside. She was seated about thirty feet away. The restaurant was empty apart from myself. Looking at the video it appears she notices me taking video as she looks away when the camera is in her direction.

And you say and I quote:"Firstly, I think you made a mountain out of a molehill with the police. You should have just paid up and left and carried on your afternoon elsewhere. Would have been easier all round." I did consider this whilst walking to the police station as I knew it would be a time consuming process (over two hours) and ultimely the police would probably do nothing. I was confirmed right. But I just decided that on this occasion I wouldn't let it go. If it had been the other way round would the restaurant have let it go and gone about their work? For sure they wouldn't have done so. They would have definitely called the police and had me arrested with the consequences of being detained - heavily fined and maybe deported and blacklisted if I couldn't come up with the extortionate fine the restaurant and the police would have no doubt agreed upon insisted on me paying. Possibly/probably I could have also been attacked by the staff and others before the police arrived.

[transam]

OP, Just walk away. You are not in farangland now.

Why TF you got the BiB involved is beyond me.

[montereyjp]

Who are you? the prince of whales or just a self righteous idiot? Like others have stated you should have just paid the 5 baht. The profit margins in these small family owned restaurants are very small. No way where you justified in your actions regardless of what daughter may have done to you. You wasted everyone time including mine.. Go back home before you waste anyone else's time or worst get your self righteous ass hurt or killed...

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[bulmercke]

Who are you? the prince of whales or just a self righteous idiot? Like others have stated you should have just paid the 5 baht. The profit margins in these small family owned restaurants are very small. No way where you justified in your actions regardless of what daughter may have done to you. You wasted everyone time including mine.. Go back home before you waste anyone else's time or worst get your self righteous ass hurt or killed...

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Actually - for your information montereyjp I have lived and worked here for nearly twenty years. And of course I would have paid the five baht. I simply questioned why they were charging five baht for a small glass of ice when I was not only drinking there but also dining. This is the sort of question my wife and other Thais would ask. I asked the woman in a civil manner. In short - I complained by questioning their policy which she didn't lie. Dare to complain here even in the mildest way and you can have a big problem. They can see you as a troublemaker who has to be dealt with. Such is Thailand!

In fact - in Thailand the police are called out and are invovled in many lesser incidents etc that are non-threatening and don't involve violence. I have no regrets whatsoever about going to the police and believe I made the right decision even if you disagree. Anyway - I hope by my actions I have possibly deterred her from attacking another customer for no real reason whatsoever. And also do you honestly think that the average Thai would have let this go if this had happened to them. 'Sorry' for having wasted your time. I just hope in the future you or a partner don't have the misfortune to experience the same!

[Spoonman]

What was the time frame involved in consuming the beers and food ?