France.... the battle for gay marriage continues

[alyx]

Sorry about that

I should have written "a mixed nationality couple"

Actually, when the same sex marriage is considered natural by the whole society,, meaning when nobody cares , maybe mixed couples will then mean different gender

[LeCharivari]

By then maybe it'll mean Vulcans and Klingons.

[alyx]

Hello Charivari

Would you care to elaborate as I seem to be missing the point?

Vulcans and Klingons....correct me if I am wrong, are savages who, for at least one of them, are unable to control themselves,

Therefore if a "meeting" was to be organised the question wouldn't be " will they live happily ever after " but rather " who is going to come out alive"

Please kindly explain the riddle, or what you are implying, if anything

Thank you

[LeCharivari]

You spoke of a time "when the same sex marriage is considered natural by the whole society,, meaning when nobody cares". We are nowhere near that state of utopia even in the most "liberal" of countries yet and, primarily but not only because of various religions, the likelihood of it happening world-wide in the next several hundred years (or more) is about as likely as "Vulcans and Klingons" having a "mixed marriage".

It was a metaphor - what I was suggesting (I seldom imply) is that unless something rather out of the ordinary happens (aliens, a first, second or third coming, etc) there will always be someone who cares so instead of looking at what would be nice I prefer to look at what is achievable. I could have chosen something equally unlikely, like "world peace" or " '0' crime in Pattaya".

It wasn't a criticism, simply an observation.

[alyx]

Thank you for taking the time to explain. Not easy to "hear" the posts on Internet.

As a matter of fact I was not projecting the marriage in the future but merely rebounding on the interpretation of "mixed" due to my lack of precision. It was meant to be kind of amusing.

This being said, I find your view rather pessimistic: some decades ago, interracial, inter confessional marriages were not accepted, whereas, nowadays, it is widely seen as common and barely shocks anyone. Obviously there are still some people frowning on it but, overall, people don't care anymore.

As for the situation regarding the same sex marriage, today, it is far from being idyllic, of course, but one cannot deny that it is widely accepted, (or should I say ignored) , in countries like Denmark, Holland, Argentina or Israel (needless to say that I am talking about big cities)

Mentalities are evolving, let's hope it is for the better.

Predictably enough, there will always be a (silent, hopefully) part of the population ready to disavow the "alien"

Edited November 6, 2013 by alyx

[LeCharivari]

Thank you for taking the time to explain. Not easy to "hear" the posts on Internet.

As a matter of fact I was not projecting the marriage in the future but merely rebounding on the interpretation of "mixed" due to my lack of precision. It was meant to be kind of amusing.

This being said, I find your view rather pessimistic: some decades ago, interracial, inter confessional marriages were not accepted, whereas, nowadays, it is widely seen as common and barely shocks anyone. Obviously there are still some people frowning on it but, overall, people don't care anymore.

As for the situation regarding the same sex marriage, today, it is far from being idyllic, of course, but one cannot deny that it is widely accepted, (or should I say ignored) , in countries like Denmark, Holland, Argentina or Israel (needless to say that I am talking about big cities)

Mentalities are evolving, let's hope it is for the better.

Predictably enough, there will always be a (silent, hopefully) part of the population ready to disavow the "alien"

"Pessimistic" - possibly, but I think it is more "realistic".

That same sex marriage is only "widely accepted (...ignored)" in "big cities" in a handful of countries (some 10% of the world) while simply being homosexual is a criminal offence in many more, punishable by lengthy prison sentences and even death in some, shows just how we are "evolving".

I am all for celebrating the acceptance of same-sex relationships in some countries, but I am "pessimistic" because far more countries now criminalise homosexuality than accept same sex marriage, and that criminalisation is spreading at a faster rate world-wide, with ever harsher penalties. I am "pessimistic" because people here, in a Gay Forum whose members supposedly take an international perspective, have far more interest in and take far more offence at a handful of minor officials in France avoiding presiding over same-sex marriages than they do in the wholesale criminalisation and persecution of homosexuals in 38 countries just in Sub-Saharan Africa. I am "pessimistic" because I don't see mankind "evolving for the better": in the last century more people have been killed in genocide and open warfare than in the previous thousand years - possibly the previous ten thousand. I am "pessimistic" because while Vulcans and Klingons may be "savages" at least the former are rational and the latter are honourable while mankind is neither and is the most individually selfish and least able to control itself of the three.

Yes, I'm pretty "pessimistic" .... and realistic.

[alyx]

Wow.....you are kind of upset

I agree with you. Nevertheless, it is not because some of the posters "take offence at the an official" ( I wouldn't say "minor" as one has to get married by them), that the readers, posters do not take interest in what is going on around the world

Some of them ( Unfortunately I am not ) fight for the rights of people

What you are stating is correct and this one reason why I am boycotting all Arab airlines ( I do not have to fly to Africa ) and not because I am a militant because I am afraid we ( couple) might get in trouble for being perceived as such

[LeCharivari]

Wow.....you are kind of upset

I agree with you. Nevertheless, it is not because some of the posters "take offence at the an official" ( I wouldn't say "minor" as one has to get married by them), that the readers, posters do not take interest in what is going on around the world

Some of them ( Unfortunately I am not ) fight for the rights of people

What you are stating is correct and this one reason why I am boycotting all Arab airlines ( I do not have to fly to Africa ) and not because I am a militant because I am afraid we ( couple) might get in trouble for being perceived as such

No, not "upset", just realistic - I am more than happy with how things are and always have been for me, and as I am no less selfish than the next man that is my primary concern.

You have nothing to worry about in "being perceived as such" (presumably a gay couple) on an Arab airline, unless you intend to indulge in public while on the plane - something which would get you "in trouble" whatever your partner's sex.

[alyx]

Thanks, obviously

I am more worried about transit

Actually, I am talking about Arab Airlines , but the same goes for Aeroflot.

Maybe a bit paranoid, but .... And there are enough friendly enough countries for us to enjoy when we decide to take a trip

Edited November 8, 2013 by alyx

[LeCharivari]

Thanks, obviously

I am more worried about transit

Actually, I am talking about Arab Airlines , but the same goes for Aeroflot.

Maybe a bit paranoid, but .... And there are enough friendly enough countries for us to enjoy when we decide to take a trip

As I said elsewhere "even the paranoid have enemies", but while you may not approve of Arab or Russian policies and prefer to avoid them on those grounds any actual fears you may have about getting "in trouble" when in transit with an Arab airline or Aeroflot really are groundless unless you are in the habit of getting up to something that wouldn't be acceptable anywhere, with anyone.

[alyx]

Humm......no need to be guilty to be suspected or spotted

I think that I have talked about the "délit de facies" which is kind of profiling

Well, I seem to fit the description as, as far as I remember, I have been stopped, asked questions, and, occasionally searched by customs

Of course, this is not systematic, but twice every five trips would be accurate.

Even in my own country, upon arrival I was asked once, by the custom officer, after the passport control, why I was entering the country.......When I pointed out that I was a national and did not understand what he was asking, he rephrased it, kind of apologising, saying that he wanted to know wether I was a tourist or a non resident ( well, my passport being in his hands, I wonder wether he had reading disabilities). He smiled and let me go when I said that I was a non resident, as this category of travellers was less incline to bring in fake goods.

Regarding " being a bit paranoid " , I said "maybe". Let's say that I want us to travel in good conditions ( the same goes for the countries where a visa a needed for either of us as I tend to avoid them because I find the process stressful)

I guess that our conversation has nothing to do with the topic and hope this is not bothering other readers

Edited November 8, 2013 by alyx