Customs Import Tax Penalty

[zib]

Hi

Want to explain something fun that just happened. If someone had to deal with the same thing.

So I ordered some computer hardware from the US and shipped them to Thailand with Fedex.

After they came into Thailand Fedex sent me a "Customs Declarations Form" in Thai to fill out with the type of equipment, Tax code, Duty Rate etc.

After some googling I was unsure what the tax rate actually was but dutycalculator.com said it was 0%. So I put down 0%.

I however never signed the declaration form and told Fedex in an email along with the form the following:

"Since the form is in Thai it was a bit hard for me to be sure that I wrote everything correctly. Can you verify that the document looks OK before I sign it?"

They never replied to me about any changes. So I never signed it.

--

The next day they sent over a "Payment notification" where they said it needed to be confirmed and signed with the following text:

"Upon signing this acknowledgement and confirmation, customer is responsible for tariff rate declared on the customs import entry."

I never signed it. And never replied to confirm it.

--

The next day the Fedex car came with the stuff. They said because I put in the wrong duty rate of 0% when it was really 10% I will have to pay a penalty to the Thai Customs Department of up to 500.000 baht.

--

So. This was fun.

1. What is the chance that I will actually get a penalty?

2. Because I never signed anything what are the chances, if i get the 500.000 baht penalty, that I would win if i lawyer up? Me being a foreigner and all

3. Did this happen to anyone else here?

--

Since I clearly asked Fedex to help me with my document. And I never signed any of the 2 documents even if they said it was required. I clearly see myself as not being at fault here.

[zib]

Oh and to add. I never signed the recipt of the shipment either

[brit1984]

doesnt sound like much fun to me

not sure what will happen next but good luck

[lomatopo]

Did you pay the 10%?

If so, you should be fine. 10% seems reasonable?

There have been a gazillion threads re: shipping stuff from the U.S. My vague recollection is that FedEx is to be avoided at all costs.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/371313-buying-computers-from-usa-using-shipito/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/375470-fedex-and-customs-scam/

I've seen rates from 0 (zero) % to 100+% in posts here over the years, which can included VAT, Import Duty (ad valorem), Excise.

[zib]

Hi

They didn't allow me to pay 10% to fedex. Because the declaration was wrong they said I would later have to pay it to the Customs Department (plus penalty) and would get mail about that.

I don't like Fedex either but it was the only option from the company I bought the equipment from.

Did you pay the 10%?

If so, you should be fine. 10% seems reasonable?

There have been a gazillion threads re: shipping stuff from the U.S. My vague recollection is that FedEx is to be avoided at all costs.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/371313-buying-computers-from-usa-using-shipito/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/375470-fedex-and-customs-scam/

I've seen rates from 0 (zero) % to 100+% in posts here over the years, which can included VAT, Import Duty (ad valorem), Excise.

[zib]

What really baffles me is why I even have to do a customs declaration form. With UPS,DHL and Thailand Post you never have to do it.

And all the information is already filled in by the sender including the correct Tax HS Code. The only thing I filled in was the Duty Rate.

But Fedex should be able to do that themselves anyway since the tax code was already there.

[meatboy]

if you get away with this"your a better man than me" gunga din.

[Joe Mamma]

The customs charges is by declared value plus shipping costs, size and weight spec. give more duty costs too. If the US did same to China imports, the debt would be paid off in 2 shakes.

[Ticketmaster]

Consider the 500 baht a penalty for using FedEx. Next time, use the Post Office.

[A1Str8]

You wrote 0% but you didn't sign it and without a signature that is not an officially valid or acceptable document. That's why you are supposed to sign it. The signature is required for a reason. To make it legit. They were insisting on you signing it for a reason. You didn't do it(which was smart) and that's why they didn't even answer. Instead they sent you some other shit to sign. You didn't sign that either so they just got fed up and delivered. And now they try to get rid of responsibility by telling you that you will be required to pay because of the percentage you wrote. It doesn't matter because you didn't verify it with your signature.

FedEx sucks so hard that it should pay a fine to customers for still operating. Just pay the 10% and next time use a courier not a bunch of idiots.

[ajarnmarc]

Fedex is by far the worst. They act like they are Customs, and they also want a piece of the pie for every package that comes through. We hired a package clearing agent, that worked at the Airport in Bangkok, and even after he paid the declared Customs fee, he still had to pay Fedex to release the package to him, so he could forward it to us. When I asked why, his statement was: because you shipped it through Fedex,

and it's there property until you pay the amount they see fit. This was true when we dealt directly with them. They held a package of ours for two months while they proceeded to go back and forth with us over what the charge would be. We could clearly see that they were acting like they were the Customs department, with the time & way the negotiated the fee's. Sometimes only taking minutes to respond with a counter offer on the due amount. The amount in question was 110% what we actually paid for the merchandise, and in the end it came to 90% what we proved we had paid for the merchandise. By proof, we had to show the bank transfer from here to the merchant, copies of a notarized letter from the merchant stating the prices for the items, even though everything was declared on the packing slip at the time it was shipped. Fedex questioned everything. They work to ware you down so you just give in and pay what they want. Their shipping cost is low in the U.S. and they even charge a duty against the shipping cost when it gets here. That's added on top of the purchase price you paid for the merchandise.

The local post office is by far, an easier way to go about getting items from abroad. Fedex is the worst way to go. If the shipper insist on using Fedex, I would certainly look for another supplier. For Fedex will make you wish you had never ordered the item in the first place,

and don't hope that the U.S. Fedex will assist in anyway, they won't!

[GrantSmith]

Is it 500 baht or 500,000 baht and a typo?

If the former, 500 is fair even for Customs. If the latter, well, you didn't sign anything to say you accepted the delivery, so technically, you don't have the delivery.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[cbluck58]

I recently imported some goods from Japan - te first package was a golf driver shaft and some grips for golf clubs - not very valuable - the duty , according to EMS was 600 THB.

The second package was a custom made Golf driver complete - very expensive - the duty , according to EMS was 300 THB - work that one out because I can't .

[cbluck58]

By the way - I use Fedex a lot and have never had a problem - similarly DHL and EMS - all good in my book.

[impulse]

I recently imported some goods from Japan - te first package was a golf driver shaft and some grips for golf clubs - not very valuable - the duty , according to EMS was 600 THB.

The second package was a custom made Golf driver complete - very expensive - the duty , according to EMS was 300 THB - work that one out because I can't .

There is very often a different HTS classification for parts than for a complete unit. It could be that one came in as "parts for a golf club" and the other came in as "golf club"

I've also experienced a lot of shipments where my "parts for pumps" (0% duty in the USA) were reclassified by customs as "castings, iron", or "pipe" or some other HTS code that had significant duties attached. It was especially irritating and expensive to have them re-classified as "pipe" because pipe was subject to punitive anti-dumping duties at the time. That cost us many thousands of $$$.

Your parts may have come in as "casting", "graphite tube" and "goods made of rubber", all of which may have had HTS codes and duties very different from "sporting goods, golf".

Or they may have just been in a different mood that day, or a different inspector.

BTW, those are fictitious HTS categories. The USA catalog of HTS codes is about 2000 pages long.

As an aside, we found it was cheaper to import complete pumps at 0% duty than to import the parts and pay the duties. Completely ruled out assembling them in the USA by tax paying US employees. Another great policy of our government that pretty much forced us to offshore those jobs to compete.

Same thing with trailer frames. It was cheaper to build the entire frame offshore and import it as a trailer frame than to import just the raw steel tubing, which was subject to anti-dumping duties. So even though we wanted to hire welders in the USA to fabricate the tubing into trailers, we couldn't afford the import duties on the raw materials. That project died because of the idiotic customs duties.

Edited October 19, 2013 by impulse

[glegolo]

This seems a bit of strange to me. You do absolutely nothing correct, not able to even fill in a form, and then brag about it....

I think you are at fault. But be added som penalties,,,,I think NOT....At least not any 500.000 baht.....

Try to be more active and take some responsibility, and you will be fine...

Glegolo

[IAMSOBAD]

500 or 500,000 you can't even get that right?

How old are you...12?

[Anon999]

Did you pay the 10%?

If so, you should be fine. 10% seems reasonable?

There have been a gazillion threads re: shipping stuff from the U.S. My vague recollection is that FedEx is to be avoided at all costs.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/371313-buying-computers-from-usa-using-shipito/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/375470-fedex-and-customs-scam/

I've seen rates from 0 (zero) % to 100+% in posts here over the years, which can included VAT, Import Duty (ad valorem), Excise.

Had the same problem with Fedex from the UK. They seem to be in cohorts with Customs as it is a frequently reported scam. Luckily it was only a small item that was returned to sender after many weeks of discussions. They and Customs were totally unhelpful and would not say what the charges would be until after I had signed a form and returned it to them, which I did not. They charged the sender £50 for returning it, having paid £35 for delivery. It somewhat backfired as the company has cancelled its contract with Fedex.

Later I got a notification saying the item was ready for collection!

Subsequently I had a friend bring it for me on his next trip.

Edited October 19, 2013 by Anon999

[flyingdoc]

Reading most of these posts, I think I will give FedEx a miss !

[noikrit]

Tom Hanks would've sorted it out !!....... WINSTON !!

[jack244]

FedEx charged me 3800thb on my last shipment, simply a box containing some old summer clothes. I valued the box at £25, and insured at such! Cost of express to samui £82. Hmmm. I emailed them asking for a breakdown! I still wait.

Envelope tax was 1342thb, again asked why, again I wait.

Fedex was a necessary evil.

I will bite the bullet but consider other future options, ie mail service fir Xmas.

[harrry]

FedEx charged me 3800thb on my last shipment, simply a box containing some old summer clothes. I valued the box at £25, and insured at such! Cost of express to samui £82. Hmmm. I emailed them asking for a breakdown! I still wait.

Envelope tax was 1342thb, again asked why, again I wait.

Fedex was a necessary evil.

I will bite the bullet but consider other future options, ie mail service fir Xmas.

duty on clothes is 60% of assessed value.

freight is taxible to at the rate of the goods.

= pounds 107

tax @60% = 60 pounds

vat at 7% = 8 pounds..

68 pounds = 3400

sounds you got away cheap

[zib]

You wrote 0% but you didn't sign it and without a signature that is not an officially valid or acceptable document. That's why you are supposed to sign it. The signature is required for a reason. To make it legit. They were insisting on you signing it for a reason. You didn't do it(which was smart) and that's why they didn't even answer. Instead they sent you some other shit to sign. You didn't sign that either so they just got fed up and delivered. And now they try to get rid of responsibility by telling you that you will be required to pay because of the percentage you wrote. It doesn't matter because you didn't verify it with your signature.

FedEx sucks so hard that it should pay a fine to customers for still operating. Just pay the 10% and next time use a courier not a bunch of idiots.

I would glady pay the 10%. But they said I couldn't since it was now a Thai Customs Department issue and that there would most likely be a penalty.

Interesting to see what happens Glad I didn't sign anything. And the reason was of course because I was not sure about the correct duty rate. I'm not an expert in Thai Tax Law.

I would never use Fedex if I had a choice. But it was the only company the sender was willing to use

[zib]

Is it 500 baht or 500,000 baht and a typo?

If the former, 500 is fair even for Customs. If the latter, well, you didn't sign anything to say you accepted the delivery, so technically, you don't have the delivery.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

It's not a typo. The CIF value of the shipment is $5000. They said the penalty would be 4 times the value.

[dunks]

Did you take delivery yet? If so, just ignore their calls as I did when they were trying to charge me 100% of cost. If you did not then good luck to you but as for 500,000thb I would tell them to get <deleted>!!

[zib]

This seems a bit of strange to me. You do absolutely nothing correct, not able to even fill in a form, and then brag about it....

I think you are at fault. But be added som penalties,,,,I think NOT....At least not any 500.000 baht.....

Try to be more active and take some responsibility, and you will be fine...

Glegolo

I'm at fault because I don't know Thai Tax Law? One website said 40% , another one 20%, another one 0%. And now fedex says it was actually 10%.

With any reasonable shipping firm they do the tax declaration for you. DHL,UPS,Thailand Post all do this by themselves. If Fedex found out it was 10% what did I add by even doing the form. There was no information there that wasn't already in the shipping slip.

They just come to my door, after I tell them that I don't know if this form was correctly filled out, and tell me I have to pay a penalty of 4 times the CIF value because I lied on the form.

I just want to warn people that Fedex are obviously idiots in comparison to DHL,UPS, Thailand Post. And after seeing some other posts / topics here I don't think I'm incorrect.

[zib]

Did you take delivery yet? If so, just ignore their calls as I did when they were trying to charge me 100% of cost. If you did not then good luck to you but as for 500,000thb I would tell them to get <deleted>!!

My girlfriend did

[A1Str8]

This seems a bit of strange to me. You do absolutely nothing correct, not able to even fill in a form, and then brag about it....

I think you are at fault. But be added som penalties,,,,I think NOT....At least not any 500.000 baht.....

Try to be more active and take some responsibility, and you will be fine...

 

Glegolo

 

I'm at fault because I don't know Thai Tax Law? One website said 40% , another one 20%, another one 0%. And now fedex says it was actually 10%.

 

With any reasonable shipping firm they do the tax declaration for you. DHL,UPS,Thailand Post all do this by themselves. If Fedex found out it was 10% what did I add by even doing the form. There was no information there that wasn't already in the shipping slip.

 

They just come to my door, after I tell them that I don't know if this form was correctly filled out, and tell me I have to pay a penalty of 4 times the CIF value because I lied on the form.

 

I just want to warn people that Fedex are obviously idiots in comparison to DHL,UPS, Thailand Post. And after seeing some other posts / topics here I don't think I'm incorrect.

Dont worry about him. You are not at fault. He is.

[GrantSmith]

For the sake of argument next time OP, use the comma instead of the full stop. Yes yes grammar police out in force but it would save a lot of issues.

Also, the FULL story is also advised - change names if it makes you feel comfortable.

Now that we've got the rules of engagement sorted, onto the advice.

You'll get fcuked by FedEx because they sub contract their customs clearance work, ThaiPost does it in house which is why you read more often than not members loathing the use of FedEx and general praise for ThaiPost - quite ironic, but nevertheless...

The call you get from FedEx saying you have to pay this and that is simply passed on from their subcontractor. As you've demonstrated, you're already in possession of the item in question - which is to your benefit. Even more so given you as the consignee didn't sign anything.

For $5,000 worth of equipment, your excise and import bill should be quite excessive, granted not around the $20,000 mark, but that's the game they play.

I'm surprised you didn't get a call from the subcontractor trying sell you a deal.

A word to the wise. Do your homework, know how much tax you are potentially liable for this will give you a leg up in possible negotiations.

Have a figure in your head at the price you're ok with and halve it to start. Don't chase them, let them chase you.

You might get a letter in a couple of weeks from the Customs Department asking for payment of taxes - it should be an appropriate amount to which I would strongly advise you pay.

ThaiPost - for me and my imported products - is the way to go. All of my exporters try to send it via FedEx, DHL or TNT to guarantee its arrival but it's not worth the hassle. I get a tracking number with my consignments from ThaiPost and can follow the process as and when required.

If it's a large enough quantity it'll come on a ship - which has its own risks, least of all the time taken

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[harrry]

So you said the value was $25. Can you back that up with purchase invoices websites etc. If not the declaration of the value is false and the penalty for a missdeclaration is very heavy.

If you cannot back it up you may be able to show the real value of the item and if it was say $1000 just pay the penalty of 4 times the tax on that plus shipping.

making a false declaration is dangerous anywhere. Not FedEx or Customs to blame here.

Start saving your pennies.