Two young children narrowly avoid being kidnapped on a Thailand holiday

[Baerboxer]

The big worry is that the Police where not interested. Surely the attempted kidnapping of children is a serious crime anywhere? Whether the perpetrator of the offence is foreign or not. Its every parents worst nightmare.

Or, just perhaps, the police listened to the entire story and, just perhaps, it differed from what was reported in the media? perhaps, there was absolutely nothing to the story? Perhaps? But then if it is in a newspaper, or on the internet, it must be true. And gives us a chance to bash Thailand, Thai police, Thai government....if only this happened in pattaya

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Some people have bashing on the brain - any excuse to bash.

But those awful people who bash those cute seals are really awful

[MESmith]

So let me get this straight, the parents were sitting resonably close by, the older child of the Strange' spoke to the strange woman for several miniutes before being joined by her younger sibling, they both then spoke to the strange woman for another ten minutes. Did the parents think to get up from where they were sitting and ask the stranger her name, or even bring the children back to where they were sitting? Or were they otherwise occupied with things other than protecting thier children?

Why did they need protecting while they were on the ferry?

Very easy for a 3 year old to wander off on a crowded ferry & fall down some seriously steep steps to the car deck, or through the railings overboard. Wouldn't let my young kids stray out of reach on those ferries. As for talking to some woman, would just keep an eye on them. But I wouldn't let a 3 year old out of reach.

Edited October 20, 2013 by MESmith

[bunnydrops]

Well. With all the confusion going on. I am just glad Berry was Naomi's father. If he had been Jame's father he would have been Berry Strange.

[pacovl46]

That's just sick! If that had been my kids I would've beaten the living %$#@ out of her and then would've dragged her by her hair to the next police station!!!

[whybother]

Why did they need protecting while they were on the ferry?

Very easy for a 3 year old to wander off on a crowded ferry & fall down some seriously steep steps to the car deck, or through the railings overboard. Wouldn't let my young kids stray out of reach on those ferries. As for talking to some woman, would just keep an eye on them. But I wouldn't let a 3 year old out of reach.

Young children have a habit of having accidents, and on a ferry there is always the risk of falling overboard. How many children do you think have been abducted in situations where they were not being supervised by an attentive parent, and had the ferry been loaded with a lot of passengers it would have been easy for the children to be 'lost' in the crowd, and if someone had wanted to lure the children away just before the ferry berthed they would have tried to be among the first ashore with the kids while the parents did thier best headless chook impersonation on the ferry looking for the children that weren't being supervised by them.

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The parents were seated nearby. The parents saw the woman talking to the kids, so they were being attentive. The Koh Chang ferries are never that crowded that kids will suddenly disappear from view. It is very difficult for anyone to slip through the railings unless they climb through or over them, which there was no suggestion that they were doing.

It looks like they were protected fine until they were on shore, and even on shore they stopped someone from abducting them.

[ronthai]

I really hope all are over-re-acting.

if not, well do not blame it on Thaialnd, just because it makes good news/Google on ThaiVisa (that is what TV does)

[jsflynn603]

Using Occam’s Razor the woman was a trafficker.

(from thefreedictionary.com: “This rule is interpreted to mean that the simplest of two or more competing theories is preferable and that an explanation for unknown phenomena should first be attempted in terms of what is already known. Occam's razor is named after the deviser of the rule, English philosopher and theologian William of Ockham (1285?-1349?).”

From: Factsheet on Human Trafficking:

http://www.unodc.org/documents/human-trafficking/UNVTF_fs_HT_EN.pdf

The United Nations estimates the total market value of illicit human trafficking at 32 billion US dollars.

Though another poster commented that the value of children were a few thousand dollars two white girls of this age could be worth tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands and not as slave basket weavers.

Consider this: “HONG KONG - Asia will have the world's largest number of millionaires as early as 2014 despite the expected tapering of the US Federal Reserve's stimulus program, according to a report published Wednesday, September 25”

From: http://www.rappler.com/business/170-features/39855-asia-to-have-most-millionaires-survey

Remember, these millionaires usually don’t have “one” million…

In Asia it is very easy for children to disappear, certainly as easy as adults to disappear being forced into slavery on fishing boats.

Had that been my child—that woman would NEVER have left the scene. It’s so sad that they never got a photo of her—there are many in law enforcement worldwide who would have taken that photo very, very seriously in the hopes that it would lead to a ring of traffickers.

For those interested another link that I just found by accident:

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/child-sold-for-organ-harvesting/story-fndir2ev-1226743335651

In it:

"The report also said 20 British girls had been victims of human trafficking, in cases where they were raped and exploited by gangs of Asian men."

Edited October 20, 2013 by jsflynn603

[whybother]

This article is as usual very poorly written and devoid of any substantive information. Apart from the fact that another female passenger was seen talking with the children, there is nothing to suggest subterfuge or harmful intent

However, what really  amazes me is creativity of the TV members who can come up with such assumptions, often based on their own errors on reading the content. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

You should try reading the full article. The OP is just the first few lines.

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[Patsycat]

This thread should be closed and a new one opened, with all the details of this family and what happened written in big bold letters.

Then all those that didn't read this and didn't read that can read it all properly.

[theslime]

This article is as usual very poorly written and devoid of any substantive information. Apart from the fact that another female passenger was seen talking with the children, there is nothing to suggest subterfuge or harmful intent

However, what really amazes me is creativity of the TV members who can come up with such assumptions, often based on their own errors on reading the content. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

TV members aren,t Newspaper Eds, the media jumped on this BS story as they knew the headline would grab all.

[whybother]

This article is as usual very poorly written and devoid of any substantive information. Apart from the fact that another female passenger was seen talking with the children, there is nothing to suggest subterfuge or harmful intent

However, what really amazes me is creativity of the TV members who can come up with such assumptions, often based on their own errors on reading the content. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

TV members aren,t Newspaper Eds, the media jumped on this BS story as they knew the headline would grab all.

It seems that some TV members don't like reading either.

What is BS about the story? You don't think some woman trying to drag your kids into a taxi is something that should be reported?

[jackr]

Bizarre.

The police are, once again, useless here.

God help any person who even attempted to take my child from me. Woman or not, I'd of had my two week vacation, and been back to work a week, before she woke up.

Agreed, but there wouldn't be any waking up bit.

[goatfarmer]

Using Occam’s Razor the woman was a trafficker.

(from thefreedictionary.com: “This rule is interpreted to mean that the simplest of two or more competing theories is preferable and that an explanation for unknown phenomena should first be attempted in terms of what is already known. Occam's razor is named after the deviser of the rule, English philosopher and theologian William of Ockham (1285?-1349?).”

From: Factsheet on Human Trafficking:

http://www.unodc.org/documents/human-trafficking/UNVTF_fs_HT_EN.pdf

The United Nations estimates the total market value of illicit human trafficking at 32 billion US dollars.

Though another poster commented that the value of children were a few thousand dollars two white girls of this age could be worth tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands and not as slave basket weavers.

Consider this: “HONG KONG - Asia will have the world's largest number of millionaires as early as 2014 despite the expected tapering of the US Federal Reserve's stimulus program, according to a report published Wednesday, September 25”

From: http://www.rappler.com/business/170-features/39855-asia-to-have-most-millionaires-survey

Remember, these millionaires usually don’t have “one” million…

In Asia it is very easy for children to disappear, certainly as easy as adults to disappear being forced into slavery on fishing boats.

Had that been my child—that woman would NEVER have left the scene. It’s so sad that they never got a photo of her—there are many in law enforcement worldwide who would have taken that photo very, very seriously in the hopes that it would lead to a ring of traffickers.

For those interested another link that I just found by accident:

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/child-sold-for-organ-harvesting/story-fndir2ev-1226743335651

In it:

"The report also said 20 British girls had been victims of human trafficking, in cases where they were raped and exploited by gangs of Asian men."

I'm not sure that it's Occam's razor since each suggested motive for the alleged abduction is equally simple. However, you raise a point worth considering, namely, that deliberate abduction and not mental derangement was the motive. We seem to have dismissed that scenario in jumping to the conclusion that the alleged abductor was crazy because she was white and no white person would be involved in human trafficking in Thailand.

Perhaps many of us assume that because we haven't heard of deliberate abduction of white children before in Thailand it doesn't happen here; or, there are too many easy victims amongst street children if you want to harvest organs. Why pick on foreign tourists? The answer would be that if you are Caucasian you can get across borders more easily with drugged and sleepy white children than you could with indigenous children (and Cambodia is just a short boat ride away from Koh Chang). So, whether or not the deliberate abduction scenario is more likely or not, it is at least as equally plausible as the 'encounter with a crazy woman' scenario.

As to the newsworthiness of the story, I agree that it is poorly written, with more emphasis on sensationalism than fact and therefore should be taken with a grain of skepticism. However, the scenario is a parent's worst nightmare and gives those of us with young children cause to pause without over-reacting. Let them talk to strangers but keep an eye on them at all times in public places. Is that more easily said than done?

As to the alleged perpetrator, the Strange family would still recognize the said woman. If they had any sense of responsibility they would take the matter to an NGO or to a higher level of the police and not be content to be fobbed off by a local police station that is only concerned with petty or violent crime. The problem for them is that they are strangers in a strange land (pardon me) and it is not easy for them to find their way around. They are probably not enjoying their holiday and just want to go home. But if they can be contacted they should be urged to pursue the matter.

[MarkCyr]

I'm not surprised the police did nothing. Aside from being lazy, with no proof that a crime occurred, the probably decided to stay in their air conditioned shack instead of driving around all day.

But if it were my kids, I'd have left the wife and grandad at the resort, hired a cab, and gone to every resort on the island till I ran into that piece of shit. Or better yet, with only a handful of taxis on the island, I'd go back to the pier, pay somebody to put me in contact with the guy who gave her the ride, and find out where this psycho woman was staying.

[GentlemanJim]

The Police were disinterested because there was no money in it for them.

The father is 71 and looks old while the children are very young, perhaps that is what triggered the incident.

The alleged kidnapper seems to be a do-gooder and tried to intervene to 'rescue' the children, thinking there was no way the couple were the real parents given their age. With Thailand's notorious reputation as a trafficking hub and destination for pedophiles it appears this woman was trying to act like a heroine, with disastrous consequences.

Doubt it was a serious attempt to kidnap, just an unstable, opinionated woman intervening in a situation she had created of her own making.

Don't get this, why for starters do they think the (woman) was trying to abduct ??? and being on a ferry did she flee the scene ???? we have to assume the woman was a Foreigner ??? and she was not apprehended on board???? the lady was seated 10 or so meters away ???? but must have been beamed up after being unsuccessful in her attempt ----if the WOMAN was blond and sunglasses on--could it have been a man in drag ????? all sounds a bit vague half a story ???

If you read it says that the attempt to take them was after they alighted the ferry - on the ferry she was just talking to them - it was while they were negotiating a taxi that the problem occurred. I cant help wondering what the children had been saying to the lady on the ferry. Children sometimes play silly games and maybe they said something that worried the woman and made her believe that the couple were not their parents. There are so many odd things about this story not least of which is why choose an island to abduct children?

I don't believe it. Sounds like a tall story to me.

Who's to say that the grandfather isn't the 'kidnapper',
and the lady who looks like a school teacher is in fact his wife,
and she wants her children back!

So that would mean the Stranges are in fact
the kidnappers and the grandfather isn't really the grandfather
he's actually trying to get his own kids back - so that means he's the father!

Anyone pote Thai? call the police.

I sometimes read these threads in utter amazement. If the blonde woman with glasses is considered to be a lunatic then the 3 of you should arrange a get together with her and have a mad hatters tea party. Thailand, hub of lunacy.

[keestha]

Don't know if this has been pointed out before, but the article says "The lady then went to grab Milly and called her by name and said, 'Come on Milly, let's get in the taxi', with a Danish or Dutch accent. " Not such a credible clue, a Dutch accent is much closer to a German accent than to a Danish accent.

[GentlemanJim]

Don't know if this has been pointed out before, but the article says "The lady then went to grab Milly and called her by name and said, 'Come on Milly, let's get in the taxi', with a Danish or Dutch accent. " Not such a credible clue, a Dutch accent is much closer to a German accent than to a Danish accent.

Having lived on the German Dutch border for many years I would disagree. Dutch accent is more like those in scandinavia. But that is an aside, this was just a comment from someone who may never have been to either place. A bit like someone from Holland saying they heard someone that sounded like they were Australian or from New Zealand. There is a big difference, but not to the unfamiliar ear.

[spidermike007]

Ok, I bagged the tourist police for not doing anything about this. Another member went on to say it's not a tourist police problem, which is completely rubbish. Ok obviously tourist police aren't there to solve real crimes, but they are there to at least help a fellow tourist, and in this case help that family by taking them to the real authority instead of not being interested in a possible abduction by a mentally ill women.

Like I said before, shame on the tourist police for doing absolutely nothing. Its pathetic imo.

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Have you EVER seen, heard of, or been party to the Thai police or tourist police actually solving a crime, helping an individual, preventing a crime from taking place, or otherwise engaged in actual law enforcement? They appear to be one of the most broken "law enforcement" agencies In the world. Many consider them to be only a revenue collection agency. In order for this to change, the Thai government is going to have to grow up, and start budgeting at least what they are spending on the hair brained rice scheme, on improving the police force. New officers, that are well paid, good forensic and lab equipment, real detectives, serious consultations with well regarded foreign police departments, etc., etc. It is going to take a lot of work, and it will cost a lot of money, but if Thailand is really serious about gaining international respect in this regard, it will have to be done sooner rather than later. Then, they can move beyond the laughingstock that is called the Thai police.

[chooka]

An Adelaide couple who live in Kununura W.A. Adelaide is in Sth Australia and not W.A

[LingLek]

Sounds to me like the assailant has been eating too many magic mushrooms on da island.

The same comment could be applied to some of the posters on this forum. Threats directed at anyone who might try to abduct kids (huh? threaten away, if you must, but to the perps not your keyboard--who cares what you would do to such people?), assumptions that a man of 71 could be the father of the two children (don't you even look at the caption or the story itself? probably not), and this wild-eyed frothing reaction to any story involving Thai police.

[goatfarmer]

I'm not surprised the police did nothing. Aside from being lazy, with no proof that a crime occurred, the probably decided to stay in their air conditioned shack instead of driving around all day.

But if it were my kids, I'd have left the wife and grandad at the resort, hired a cab, and gone to every resort on the island till I ran into that piece of shit. Or better yet, with only a handful of taxis on the island, I'd go back to the pier, pay somebody to put me in contact with the guy who gave her the ride, and find out where this psycho woman was staying.

Now that's action! I would have been in that cab with you.

[goatfarmer]

I'm not surprised the police did nothing. Aside from being lazy, with no proof that a crime occurred, the probably decided to stay in their air conditioned shack instead of driving around all day.

But if it were my kids, I'd have left the wife and grandad at the resort, hired a cab, and gone to every resort on the island till I ran into that piece of shit. Or better yet, with only a handful of taxis on the island, I'd go back to the pier, pay somebody to put me in contact with the guy who gave her the ride, and find out where this psycho woman was staying.

You confuse proof with evidence and ignore the fact that an attempt at kidnapping is a crime. The report of the parents and grandparent would be evidence.

[Estrada]

The Police were disinterested because there was no money in it for them.

The father is 71 and looks old while the children are very young, perhaps that is what triggered the incident.

The alleged kidnapper seems to be a do-gooder and tried to intervene to 'rescue' the children, thinking there was no way the couple were the real parents given their age. With Thailand's notorious reputation as a trafficking hub and destination for pedophiles it appears this woman was trying to act like a heroine, with disastrous consequences.

Doubt it was a serious attempt to kidnap, just an unstable, opinionated woman intervening in a situation she had created of her own making.

You got it wrong. Naomi and her husband, of similar age, were also accompanied by her father. He is not the father of her children.

[mrtoad]

As a side note

On the Koh Chang Ferry they take a photo of every passenger whcih they then try to sell you in a frame as you disembark.

That would mean there is a photograph of the woman.

The parents would be aware of that fact as they would have been asked to buy one when they left the boat.

That's news to me, I go on that Ferry once or twice a week, and I have never seen photographers there.

So that's a totally nonsensical post.

Regarding Thailand's finest aka The BIB, they are more interested in fining people for not having a helmet.

[coma]

Sounds to me like the assailant has been eating too many magic mushrooms on da island.

The same comment could be applied to some of the posters on this forum. Threats directed at anyone who might try to abduct kids (huh? threaten away, if you must, but to the perps not your keyboard--who cares what you would do to such people?), assumptions that a man of 71 could be the father of the two children (don't you even look at the caption or the story itself? probably not), and this wild-eyed frothing reaction to any story involving Thai police.

Why are you venting your disatisfaction with me ?

[sean62]

What seems to have been overlooked is that this woman spoke to these children at length on the ferry , she knew their names and would surely have asked who they were with , the innocent children would have told her everything about Grandad , mum and Dad .

The woman was possibly part of a larger group that had people all over the island , even including taxi drivers

If the parents want to get to the bottom of the story they should get experts to talk to the kids and find out exactly what this woman said

It seems to me that this is too important to "write off" especially in view of the recent news story of the girl found in Greece kidnapped by Roma Gypsies

[AryanicAristocrat]

Though I am in my forties.....I was kinda perplexed about so many ealier posts in this thread that showed a distaste for people in their seventies! What is wrong with all these TV members or is it that they too will never grow old one day or simply die in their twenties, thirties or forties of some disease like cancer or die in an accident. Since they really detests old people , I really hope that they do not live to get old! My mother is now 84 and I still love and adore her.

[featography]

Bizarre.

The police are, once again, useless here.

God help any person who even attempted to take my child from me. Woman or not, I'd of had my two week vacation, and been back to work a week, before she woke up.

The parents are on vacation without a camera?

Had, but didn't think to shoot a few pictures of the woman??

[Gummigalgen]

I have a young daughter with good looks. Regularly women approach her usually persons who didn't get children themselves for some reason. And yes, sometimes highly possessive behavior involved so I am always alert (but a 3 year old kid should not stand alone at the railing, Strange!)

[timewilltell]

It is a serious business when someone tries to abduct a child. It never ceases to amaze me at the absolute incompetence of the police here which itself borders on criminality.