More than 100,000 foreigners staying illegally in Thailand

[oldthaihand99]

is 500 baht really such a hardship? it far cheaper than laos and on par with cambodia and vietnam if i recall.

It's peanuts for most Westerners & first world countries' citizens who can afford to travel by air and stay in hotels.

No doubt the funds would dissuade the poorer riff raff from coming to LOS & be used to weed out overstayers & other scum already in the Kingdom, thereby making Siam a more attractive destination for higher quality tourists.

Edited October 24, 2013 by oldthaihand99

[UncleJ]

High quality tourists?

Try walking out of the classy Rembrandt Hotel on Soi 20 and try to get an honest taxi or see how far you get before meeting a professional scammer.

The word is out about Thailand and it is not good.

[Thomas33399]

Thai officials are becoming increasingly greedy.

Bank charges are obscenely high.

They want foreign teachers here and they charge them to work here. Then they find ways to rip off their salary especially in places like Chiang Mai.

Visa charges are ridiculous for all foreigners and they love finding a way to make you pay extra as in forcing tourists to provide paperwork that is impossible to get correct and that they provide almost no assistance in getting correct.

Karaoke bars.

Insurance.

Farang prices charged to people who live here and earn less money than many Thais.

This latest absurd rationale shows how brazen they are becoming in their attempts to steal from foreigners. These Thais are some of the many who demonstrate no respect for the people around them.

I love the Thais but there should be an official list made of Thai rip offs. This could be circulated on the media to expose how greedy they are becoming.

The Thais, (both officials and others),are always looking for another way to rip people off as there is no accountability. This is the problem of living in a quasi democracy.

[oldthaihand99]

High quality tourists?

Try walking out of the classy Rembrandt Hotel on Soi 20 and try to get an honest taxi or see how far you get before meeting a professional scammer.

The word is out about Thailand and it is not good.

Thailand is far from attracting the quality of tourist that Hong Kong & Singapore do, but 500 baht from millions of tourists annually could help improve things & be a step in that direction.

The word about LOS can't be that bad with 2012 producing reportedly record numbers of tourists and 2013 thus far exceeding that by 20%. Some 50% of them are returners compared to like 3% to Vietnam. It seems clear which of the two is preferred.

But some people just like to complain. This thread could be renamed "whiners anonymous".

[oldthaihand99]

Thai officials are becoming increasingly greedy.

Bank charges are obscenely high.

They want foreign teachers here and they charge them to work here. Then they find ways to rip off their salary especially in places like Chiang Mai.

Visa charges are ridiculous for all foreigners and they love finding a way to make you pay extra as in forcing tourists to provide paperwork that is impossible to get correct and that they provide almost no assistance in getting correct.

Karaoke bars.

Insurance.

Farang prices charged to people who live here and earn less money than many Thais.

This latest absurd rationale shows how brazen they are becoming in their attempts to steal from foreigners. These Thais are some of the many who demonstrate no respect for the people around them.

I love the Thais but there should be an official list made of Thai rip offs. This could be circulated on the media to expose how greedy they are becoming.

The Thais, (both officials and others),are always looking for another way to rip people off as there is no accountability. This is the problem of living in a quasi democracy.

Bottom line: Siam offers way more "bang for your buck" for tourists & expats than places like Tokyo and Macau while at the same time giving many of their advantages.

Edited October 25, 2013 by oldthaihand99

[ginjag]

The figures state MORE Than--100,000 so if say it's 150,000 how many are here legally ??? + those who are just holidaying--add together the long term stayers and the illegals and we have a vast amount of punters here-----and no voice ??? minorities of this magnitude usually have more clout, why not organize a national foreigners organization, and start to demand some rights even if we are only guests as some put it.

The powers that be would have to listen -even a little bit, we tend to get raped too much on many levels, while spending about 100,000,000 a month.

I took 300,000 figure here at spending 30,000bht a month and no influence. ???? no say--a bit of a joke.

[soomak]

John Smith saves 2,500 usd for his vacation.

Now: Flight 1,500, remainder 1,000 discretionary spending money.

Then: Flight 1,500 + fee 20 usd, remainder 980 USD discretionary spending money.

In effect the government is simply redirecting money that would normally enter the economy via touristic spending into tax/fee revenue. Do they really think Mr. John Smith is going to add this $20 to his travel budget?

Most folks I know work from a set budget.

You can't spend the same money twice.

So once again the people's government is taking money from the people and adding it to state coffers. The only ones being fooled are the people when the government announces how much it has collected from foreigners. When in reality its being siphoned out if the tourism economy.

In as far as paying for tourist medical expenses, preventing overstays or attracting a "better quality" tourist I would question if any of these objectives would be met by this proposal.

I am not against charging 500 thb for an entry stamp. But pla-leeees stop with the feeble excuses!

Basically you are right, but the Thai government takes very little taxes from it's people.

Overall tax rates in Thailand are low compared to any Western country, except the US.

So adding another source of income for this government is not such a bad idea.

25 million tourists X 500 baht = 12.5 billion baht (400 million $US) per year, there is a lot that can be done with that

[robsamui]

As has been mentioned by one or two folks already - I will be so annoyed if I have to cough up that 500 baht on a border run . . . and I'm sure it will become a blanket payment.

I have a work permit and I pay tax every month - how on earth can be a 'tourist'?

It won't affect tourism in the slightest - another 500 baht added into the cost of flights and hotel bills - it's only a fraction a fraction of 1%

And anyway the tourists already pay an airport tax when they leave, bless 'em.

R

[Scott]

As has been mentioned by one or two folks already - I will be so annoyed if I have to cough up that 500 baht on a border run . . . and I'm sure it will become a blanket payment.

I have a work permit and I pay tax every month - how on earth can be a 'tourist'?

<snipped>

I am curious why you have to do border runs if you have a work permit?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

So adding another source of income for this government is not such a bad idea.

25 million tourists X 500 baht = 12.5 billion baht (400 million $US) per year, there is a lot that can be done with that

Indeed it can.... Paying down just a small fraction of the bogus rice subsidies...

Building new mansions, buying black market Bentleys, hiring a better class of mia noi's, a bit of a gambling budget on the weekends....

Etc etc etc.. You can be sure the money will be put to good use.

[culicine]

The figures state MORE Than--100,000 so if say it's 150,000 how many are here legally ??? + those who are just holidaying--add together the long term stayers and the illegals and we have a vast amount of punters here-----and no voice ??? minorities of this magnitude usually have more clout, why not organize a national foreigners organization, and start to demand some rights even if we are only guests as some put it.

The powers that be would have to listen -even a little bit, we tend to get raped too much on many levels, while spending about 100,000,000 a month.

I took 300,000 figure here at spending 30,000bht a month and no influence. ???? no say--a bit of a joke.

Replace "guest" with "interloper" and you will be closer to the mark ! Guests are invited, and I would guess that most of us are here of our own volition. That's why we will never have any real voice in this country.

As for the OP, 500 baht per tourist could be put to good use.....but in the story the reasons for doing it are all rather muddled. Given the current government's fiscal policies, i would suggest most will disappear into influential persons pockets, rather than into anything that would benefit tourists or the local population.

[ginjag]

The figures state MORE Than--100,000 so if say it's 150,000 how many are here legally ??? + those who are just holidaying--add together the long term stayers and the illegals and we have a vast amount of punters here-----and no voice ??? minorities of this magnitude usually have more clout, why not organize a national foreigners organization, and start to demand some rights even if we are only guests as some put it.

The powers that be would have to listen -even a little bit, we tend to get raped too much on many levels, while spending about 100,000,000 a month.

I took 300,000 figure here at spending 30,000bht a month and no influence. ???? no say--a bit of a joke.

Replace "guest" with "interloper" and you will be closer to the mark ! Guests are invited, and I would guess that most of us are here of our own volition. That's why we will never have any real voice in this country.

As for the OP, 500 baht per tourist could be put to good use.....but in the story the reasons for doing it are all rather muddled. Given the current government's fiscal policies, i would suggest most will disappear into influential persons pockets, rather than into anything that would benefit tourists or the local population.

As a class 1 football referee we were classed a necessary evil, maybe we could stretch "interloper" and place us in the referees position. In many cases especially of the last few years this could be the case.

[Thai at Heart]

As has been mentioned by one or two folks already - I will be so annoyed if I have to cough up that 500 baht on a border run . . . and I'm sure it will become a blanket payment.

I have a work permit and I pay tax every month - how on earth can be a 'tourist'?

<snipped>

I am curious why you have to do border runs if you have a work permit?

I used to fly out of svb 4 times post month at least on business.

[bangon04]

Why can't Farang follow the law in Thailand.

I am sure Farang will be very happy and accommodating if Thais overstay in your country.

Just remind me... how many countries in the world allow visa free entry for Thai passports? Only 60 out of 220+??

Yes, why is that, do you think?

The few Thais I have met overstaying in my country work in Thai restaurants and massage parlours, spend very little money into the local economy, and send as much as possible home to the family. They are not usually supporting a large family of locals, the house construction industry, and the auto / moto sales industry, and the private healthcare industry.

But hey I am sure there are some who do.....

[wolf5370]

Quality tourists? What demographic group do they come from?

I understand the need to cover health costs to tourists/non-immigrants, I can understand the need for increased revenue to provide other services.

I see no problem in increasing the departure tax, which is included in airline tickets.

If there is a need to have a fee of 500 Baht at the border, I see no problem in that either. With the exception of Malaysia, most bordering and neighboring countries charge for visas.

How many other countries have free visa on arrival?

How many countries have visa application fees that are not refundable if the visa is refused.

If you can't afford to live in Thailand, maybe it's time you moved to Cambodia?

Agree.

Bali has a 750 baht ($25 US) fee on arrival , and a $15 ( 500 baht) Departure Tax.

The Thai proposal is nothing new - in fact I believe my country ( Aus ) has the dubious distinction of being a ground breaker many years ago with a $20 Departure Tax.

Thailand used to charge 500 baht (they then put it up to 1000b) - then a change was made to add it to the plane ticket price (at 750b I think). It has not gone up in a long time, so I think Thailand could be justified in raising it back to 1000 baht or so.

It was a pain in the rear, which is why they got rid of it (moved it to ticket price - i.e. the airlines pay it, who pass the charge to the customer - like most countries now do, the UK has a very expensive airport tax comparatively!) - they are now just trying to raise cash from external sources the only way they can in an attempt to pay for their loony give-away policies and schemes. As always with this government it is a knee jerk action, without proper thought or analysis. So much easier just to raise the airport tax $5 at the current tickets prices no one would notice! Instead they fins a way that will cost them more to administrate, needing new process, staff and real estate/floor space (all of which are expensive in airports!) and in such as way that makes it look like they are on a money grab!

So much easier to say, "due to global inflation in the last ten years (or whatever) since we last raised the airport tax, we are having to make a moderate price increase - it wills till be far cheaper than most other major destinations worldwide". Few would complain to the extra 5$, the mechanism to pay is already in place (its just an increase) so in reality its pure profit.

Of course raising the entry fee to anything makes no difference to over stay people - who ever thought it would? It merely adds to the stress on tourists and looks like a scam - which of course it is (what other reason could there be of not just increasing Airport Tax - other than all the back handers that can be gleaned with the new process and infrastructure/jobs/etc required).

If you go to Burma, they give you a card with your details and photo on it as a temporary passport - same could be done here (without taking the passport of course) - inform all tourists that they have to carry it at all times and must make it available for police checks - give the same for immigration extension (non O/B/OA etc visa extensions) - and then tell the police to do spot checks - worse that can happen is a lost piece of paper (cop then takes person to hotel/abode/etc to show real passport and then has to get a duplicate temp. passport at local immigration and return to cop shop to produce it) - easy to catch people then and no one has to risk carrying a passport around at all times. Give police station access to a database with temp. passport numbers on, for checking - cops just radios in a check. Bob's your uncle.

[yingyo]

the money raised from the scheme will contribute to new measures that will ensure foreign visitors who enter Thailand will be unable to outstay their visa.

Has anybody over the last 11 pages figured out that one?

Edited October 26, 2013 by yingyo

[patayayaya]

Presumably, this means that all persons re-entering the country after a "visa run" will be, as usual, classified as 'tourists' and be expected to pay B500?

thanks the key to this bullsh@t new fee

[stickylies]

once again, nobody in the thai government cares what TV members think. if they wanna charge 500thb they will do so, period, even if all TV members would threaten to leave the country (LOL). oh, and those here with a work permit who think they are "so very special", welcome to reality: you are not. you are an alien, period, you are not thai, not asian, not part of the "family" even when you live here with your family.

Edited October 27, 2013 by stickylies

[stickylies]

majority of travellers still consider thailand as dirt cheap (and very convenient to travel). the old and bitter on TV staying here too long already keep on comparing with better days but it doesn't work like that. tourists come here to have a good time. they don't care about the politics, the rice scam, the double pricing, the poverty in isaan, the corruption, etc. i know people who have been coming here as tourist for over 20 years and they never complain. but they never stay TOO LONG and don't start a family here. and this is exactly what thai government wants: people who come, spend some money during a relative short time, enjoy themselves, and leave again (BYE BYE SEE YOU NEXT YEAR).

[UncleJ]

majority of travellers still consider thailand as dirt cheap (and very convenient to travel). the old and bitter on TV staying here too long already keep on comparing with better days but it doesn't work like that. tourists come here to have a good time. they don't care about the politics, the rice scam, the double pricing, the poverty in isaan, the corruption, etc. i know people who have been coming here as tourist for over 20 years and they never complain. but they never stay TOO LONG and don't start a family here. and this is exactly what thai government wants: people who come, spend some money during a relative short time, enjoy themselves, and leave again (BYE BYE SEE YOU NEXT YEAR).

Agreed.

Stay in your flip flops and drink beer, spend the vacation money and go home.

Doing business or getting too involved in relationships with the Thais aint pretty.

[jackr]

Minister for Public Health Mr Pradit Sintavanarong said "Now is the time for us to have quality tourists.

So all those currently here and before are low quality? Way to go numb nut. Please don't visit my country where hordes of your 'quality' people are working illegally!!!

[Sealbash]

Once again the classic Thai definition of quality = rich(er). Those who can afford to pay must be of  better 'quality' as they are richer.

 

Perhaps we shouldn't be surprised by this rather simplistic and crude definition of 'quality' as it pervades most parts of Thai society; Fat Somchai buys (on credit?)  the best 'quality phone, tablet, car, etc. which he can purchase, this now implies that Fat Somchai is now materially and socially superior to Thin Somchai who has last years model. And is more correct about all things worldly as he is clearly of better quality (aka class).

 

And that is what this boils down to social snobbery and greed, based on an archaic system of social steroetyping where your 'worth' is defined by how fat your wallet is.

 

The sad irony is those who are worthless aka the poor farmers, voted the people that maintain this system into power, on the promise that they would enrich them and make them part of the 'quality' system, or in other words - make them like Fat Somchai so they wouldn't have to be Thin Somchai anymore. And time and time again they buy it. 

 

This concept is now being applied to Tourists. Expect this to become law. 

Tourism is an industry. Tourists are the customers. Do you not think wealthy tourists spend more than those less well off? So, yes, wealthy tourists are of better quality for the industry than poor tourists.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[stickylies]

Doing business or getting too involved in relationships with the Thais aint pretty.

i wouldn't say it's not pretty. it's just unrealistic, naive and impossible without huge amounts of frustration. thai have a very complex mindset. things that are totally NOT-done in the west are normal here. there is no logic, no "common" sense, at least according to the westerner (and the thai know this very well). the core of existence is always the same, no matter what country people come from: we all want easy life, hapiness and MONEY. the main difference is the approach (tactics/ethics) how to get there. my neighbour is my own private case study (best time spent!). he's a typical thai (ordinary Joe) and it amazes me every day (every single day, imagine) how he can change his mind whenever he wants to. there is no shame nor regret. he just changes, like that, and nothing from the day before (and hour before?!) was said or happened. what a talent ;-)

Edited October 27, 2013 by stickylies

[hughben]

I remember when this 500baht fee was mooted. Their excuse was for health insurance and anyone who was already covered, would be exempt. Now the goal posts have been moved and they are coming up with any excuse as it's a money making scheme - in other words, an official rip off that will go with some of the ones you get when you hit the tourist areas.

Does anyone actually believe if you had no health insurance and were involved in a serious accident that required operations and being flown back to your country of residence/home country, the Thai authorities would foot the bill because you paid the 500 baht tax?

[Sibbo]

Probably more than that, I know of 9 at the last school I taught at. It was the reason I left that school.

[richard10365]

This policy sounds very anti-ASEAN. I wonder how ASEAN feels about this?

Responding to my own question, I emailed ASEAN and asked this question and they said....

"Thanks for your email and sharing info on the above development. I understand that this was started by the hospital bill left by tourists visiting Thailand.

In ASEAN, under ASEAN tourism agreement Article 2(3) (http://www.asean.org/news/item/asean-tourism-agreement-2), Member States should phasing out travel levies and travel taxes on nationals of ASEAN Member States traveling to other ASEAN Member States. With this putting travel taxes on nationals of ASEAN Member States are discouraged. With this, hope Member States would stick to what has been agreed earlier, at least for ASEAN nationals."

Basically, my ASEAN contact said Thailand should not apply this policy to tourist from other ASEAN countries.

[Thai at Heart]

This policy sounds very anti-ASEAN. I wonder how ASEAN feels about this?

Responding to my own question, I emailed ASEAN and asked this question and they said....

"Thanks for your email and sharing info on the above development. I understand that this was started by the hospital bill left by tourists visiting Thailand.

In ASEAN, under ASEAN tourism agreement Article 2(3) (http://www.asean.org/news/item/asean-tourism-agreement-2), Member States should phasing out travel levies and travel taxes on nationals of ASEAN Member States traveling to other ASEAN Member States. With this putting travel taxes on nationals of ASEAN Member States are discouraged. With this, hope Member States would stick to what has been agreed earlier, at least for ASEAN nationals."

Basically, my ASEAN contact said Thailand should not apply this policy to tourist from other ASEAN countries.

Waive visa fees for Chinese but put in an arrival tax.

Does anyone see what is going on here?

[gemini81]

This policy sounds very anti-ASEAN. I wonder how ASEAN feels about this?

Responding to my own question, I emailed ASEAN and asked this question and they said....

"Thanks for your email and sharing info on the above development. I understand that this was started by the hospital bill left by tourists visiting Thailand.

In ASEAN, under ASEAN tourism agreement Article 2(3) (http://www.asean.org/news/item/asean-tourism-agreement-2), Member States should phasing out travel levies and travel taxes on nationals of ASEAN Member States traveling to other ASEAN Member States. With this putting travel taxes on nationals of ASEAN Member States are discouraged. With this, hope Member States would stick to what has been agreed earlier, at least for ASEAN nationals."

Basically, my ASEAN contact said Thailand should not apply this policy to tourist from other ASEAN countries.

Waive visa fees for Chinese but put in an arrival tax.

Does anyone see what is going on here?

Exactly. (now we'll just await a troller to pull the race card, haha).

[richard10365]

This policy sounds very anti-ASEAN. I wonder how ASEAN feels about this?

Responding to my own question, I emailed ASEAN and asked this question and they said....

"Thanks for your email and sharing info on the above development. I understand that this was started by the hospital bill left by tourists visiting Thailand.

In ASEAN, under ASEAN tourism agreement Article 2(3) (http://www.asean.org/news/item/asean-tourism-agreement-2), Member States should phasing out travel levies and travel taxes on nationals of ASEAN Member States traveling to other ASEAN Member States. With this putting travel taxes on nationals of ASEAN Member States are discouraged. With this, hope Member States would stick to what has been agreed earlier, at least for ASEAN nationals."

Basically, my ASEAN contact said Thailand should not apply this policy to tourist from other ASEAN countries.

Waive visa fees for Chinese but put in an arrival tax.

Does anyone see what is going on here?

China is not considered an ASEAN country therefore Article 2(3) would not apply to China.

[tavarich]

I just deleted a large rant on this subject. I know the thai mind well enough that anything said on this forum is never going to amount to a tall turd.So let the brain trust line their pockets, blame the Farang devils, for the burden we put on their society. I personally will tolerate their ignorance and live my life to the best of my abilities, playing by their rules until I have had enough Then its adios MOFO. Me and my money out.