European Union to restart accession talks with Turkey next month

News_Editor · October 22, 2013

BRUSSELS, BELGIUM (BNO NEWS) -- The European Union (EU) agreed on Tuesday to restart long-running membership talks with Turkey, ending a three-year-freeze despite previous protests from the 28-nation bloc after Ankara's fierce crackdown on protesters earlier this year.

At the monthly General Affairs Council of the Council of the European Union, foreign ministers agreed to convene an inter-governmental conference on Turkey's accession on November 5 in Brussels. They also agreed to open negotiations that focus on regional policy and the coordination of structural instruments.

The General Affairs Council had already agreed to resume negotiations in late June, but they were eventually postponed in protest over Turkey's crackdown on protesters. Each candidate country is required to close negotiations on 35 separate policy fields before they can join the European Union.

Since the start of negotiations with Turkey in 2005, thirteen chapters have been opened, of which only one - chapter 25 on science and research - has been provisionally closed. Chapter 22 on regional policy and coordination of structural instruments is the fourteenth chapter to be opened and follows the opening of Chapter 12 on food safety, veterinary and phytosanitary policy in June 2010.

"As underlined in the Commission's 2013 enlargement package, recent developments in Turkey underline the importance of EU engagement and of the EU remaining the benchmark for reform in Turkey," EU Enlargement Commissioner Stefan Fuele said on Tuesday. "To this end, accession negotiations need to regain momentum, respecting the EU's commitments and established conditionality."

Cyprus, which joined the 28-nation bloc in 2004, previously blocked eight chapters in Turkey's accession talks because of Ankara's refusal to open sea and air ports to Cyprus. The European Union considers Turkey-controlled Northern Cyprus to be part of the Republic of Cyprus, complicating the accession talks nearly 14 years after Turkey became a EU candidate country.

Publicus · October 22, 2013

Turkey knows how to get the attention of the EU.

Last month Turkey announced it was considering the purchase of a CCP-PRC made anti-missile system, which brought down on it both the United States and the European Union, each of which made public statements of great concern. Turkey just recently received a shipment, which is now online, of US Patriot anti-missile weaponry to place along its southern border with Syria.

Turkey, which is a member of NATO, has since announced it is reexamining the possible purchase of the CCP-PRC anti missile system. The US and its Nato allies are concerned integrating the two systems would compromise US anti missile and other weapons systems technologies to the CCP in Beijing. Weapons deal making with the CCP in Beijing is a major and serious inconsistency for a Nato member state, for sure.

The United States has long and strongly supported Turkey's accesion to the EU, so this anyway is most welcome news in Washington.

As indicated in the OP, however, Turkey has a long way to go before it would qualify to enter the EU. Still, resuming long suspended discussions and face to face meetings is encouraging to Washington, discouraging to the CCP in Beijing over the prospect of losing a potential ally at the border of Europe and a member of Nato (although not for much longer if it were to connect militarily with the CCP-PRC).

Now Europe has to overcome its great concern that Turkey as a member state of the EU - although still only a prospect - would present a terrorist threat to Europe due to the fact Turkey borders Syria and Iraq and that, once someone is a resident or national of an EU member country, travel across the borders of the 26 EU counties is free of any passport requirements or restrictions. In other words, terrorists easily could enter Turkey then even more easily distribute themselves throughout EU countries.

This issue, while not on the table for public discussion or negotiation, definitely will have to be addressed in the strictest terms.

folium · October 22, 2013

As indicated in the OP, however, Turkey has a long way to go before it would qualify to enter the EU. Still, resuming long suspended discussions and face to face meetings is encouraging to Washington, discouraging to the CCP in Beijing over the prospect of losing a potential ally at the border of Europe and a member of Nato (although not for much longer if it were to connect militarily with the CCP-PRC).

Now Europe has to overcome its great concern that Turkey as a member state of the EU - although still only a prospect - would present a terrorist threat to Europe due to the fact Turkey borders Syria and Iraq and that, once someone is a resident or national of an EU member country, travel across the borders of the 26 EU counties is free of any passport requirements or restrictions. In other words, terrorists easily could enter Turkey then even more easily distribute themselves throughout EU countries.

This issue, while not on the table for public discussion or negotiation, definitely will have to be addressed in the strictest terms.

Oh lordy....

I wonder if you would have popped up on this thread if the Turks had decided to buy the Russian S-300 air defence system? PS the 2 key points for Turkey in this deal are price and technology transfers....

I would stick to fulminating about your "friends" in Beijing with SingleCell...

The passage of terrorists via Turkey into the rest of the EU would be a long way down the list of objections to Turkey's EU membership bid. If a bunch of terrorists wanted to stage an attack in France or the UK, they would do just like the perpetrators of the September 11th attacks did, ie hop on a plane to enter the target country. Much easier than overlanding through Turkey, etc

Opposition to EU membership for Turkey, and its struggle to achieve this, is well explained in these 2 links..

http://www.debatingeurope.eu/focus/infobox-arguments-for-and-against-turkeys-eu-membership/#.Umb4cyhqJoU

http://www.economist.com/node/17276372

What's the betting Steely Dan will pop up next, bemoaning the possibility of 75 million more muslims swarming into Europe, up to the very gates of Vienna (for the third time) aiming to outbreed the indigenous folk, etc etc?

Steely Dan · October 22, 2013

This news just shows the total disconnect between the unelected bureaucrats of the E.U and the wishes of it's citizens. First there is no getting round the fact that Turkey annexed Northern Cyprus as it's own by military force. In the case of say Israel and disputed territories taken post 1967 the E.U is considering boycotts of companies based in so called 'occupied territories'. Then we come to Turkish citizens within the E.U itself, perhaps a look at how this has worked out for Germany may be instructive. Incidentally Erdogan once commented that Turks living in Germany should not assimilate, so much for integration and a portent of the inner city no go zones that already can be found within Europe.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/erdogan-urges-turks-not-to-assimilate-you-are-part-of-germany-but-also-part-of-our-great-turkey-a-748070.html

Incidentally you don't have to fret about Turkey's border with Syria providing access for terrorists, the current border with Turkey suffices, besides which half of the so called rebels fighting in Syria come from within the EU anyway. Then there's freedom of religion and freedom of the press, there are few Countries in the world who have imprisoned more journalists than Turkey. As for Erdogan himself, he is an unstable megalomaniac who is more concerned with Lego making Jabba the Hutt's base resemble the Hagia Sofia in Istanbul, which somehow paints Muslims in a bad light, even though it was originally a church! Finally whilst preoccupied with lego Erdogan has presided over a tenfold increase in honour killings on his watch making Turkey number one offender in the world for this, far outstripping Pakistan.

Indeed the EU leadership are equally as insane as Erdogan is to even consider accession talks, at least we don't get to vote on it.

Mosha · October 23, 2013

As most of it is Asian, it should not even be discussed.

folium · October 23, 2013

As most of it is Asian, it should not even be discussed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Plates_tect2_en.svg

Strictly speaking Europe does not exist as a separate continent. In classical times the Greeks, in essence, saw everything east of the Aegean Sea as Asia, south of it Africa and west of it Europe.

Not knowing about plate tectonics they overlooked the fact the Eurasian Plate (see above) stretches from the Mid Atlantic to the Wallace Line, east of Borneo, thus so called Europeans are actually west Asians. Europe is a convenient human construct of a continent and defies the geological logic that literally underpins the other continental plates.

Then of course as a species we are all historically African, but that insight might further upset folk already reeling from the realization that they are as Asian as their other half!

folium · October 23, 2013

This news just shows the total disconnect between the unelected bureaucrats of the E.U and the wishes of it's citizens. First there is no getting round the fact that Turkey annexed Northern Cyprus as it's own by military force. In the case of say Israel and disputed territories taken post 1967 the E.U is considering boycotts of companies based in so called 'occupied territories'. Then we come to Turkish citizens within the E.U itself, perhaps a look at how this has worked out for Germany may be instructive. Incidentally Erdogan once commented that Turks living in Germany should not assimilate, so much for integration and a portent of the inner city no go zones that already can be found within Europe.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/erdogan-urges-turks-not-to-assimilate-you-are-part-of-germany-but-also-part-of-our-great-turkey-a-748070.html

Incidentally you don't have to fret about Turkey's border with Syria providing access for terrorists, the current border with Turkey suffices, besides which half of the so called rebels fighting in Syria come from within the EU anyway. Then there's freedom of religion and freedom of the press, there are few Countries in the world who have imprisoned more journalists than Turkey. As for Erdogan himself, he is an unstable megalomaniac who is more concerned with Lego making Jabba the Hutt's base resemble the Hagia Sofia in Istanbul, which somehow paints Muslims in a bad light, even though it was originally a church! Finally whilst preoccupied with lego Erdogan has presided over a tenfold increase in honour killings on his watch making Turkey number one offender in the world for this, far outstripping Pakistan.

Indeed the EU leadership are equally as insane as Erdogan is to even consider accession talks, at least we don't get to vote on it.

Not bad, 69 minutes after prediction made we switch from Steely Han to Steely Dan. Perhaps you two are related as you do have a very similar MO, if a somewhat different focus for your GFE.

Cyprus, ahhh, having clocked up a few years on that fascinating island, I fear you need to do some more homework. While a neat attempt to conflate the Israeli occupied territories with the 1974 Turkish invasion of northern Cyprus (and there are undoubted similarities in the 2 examples, with the Turks taking the role of the Israelis and the Greeks the Palestinians), your "fact that Turkey annexed Northern Cyprus as its own by military force" is actually not fact at all.

Turkey has never "annexed" Northern Cyprus, unlike Israel which formally annexed East Jerusalem (Palestinian territory annexed by Jordan) in 1980 and the Golan Heights (straight Syrian territory) in 1981. If you would like to read up on the 1963 Akritas Plan, the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee, the 1963 attempt at ethnic cleansing and subsequent deployment of the UN, the Greek junta inspired coup of 1974, the UDI by Northern Cyprus in 1983, and the Greek Cypriot rejection of the Annan Plan in 2004 (which was almost as dumb as Ararfat's rejection of the 2000 deal), you might see the situation in Cyprus in a different light.

Cyprus remains a major stumbling block to Turkey's membership of the EU (far more important than throughways for terrorists), and this is thoroughly exploited by Greece, which ironically should never have been allowed into the EU in the first place.

Publicus · October 23, 2013

This news just shows the total disconnect between the unelected bureaucrats of the E.U and the wishes of it's citizens. First there is no getting round the fact that Turkey annexed Northern Cyprus as it's own by military force. In the case of say Israel and disputed territories taken post 1967 the E.U is considering boycotts of companies based in so called 'occupied territories'. Then we come to Turkish citizens within the E.U itself, perhaps a look at how this has worked out for Germany may be instructive. Incidentally Erdogan once commented that Turks living in Germany should not assimilate, so much for integration and a portent of the inner city no go zones that already can be found within Europe.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/erdogan-urges-turks-not-to-assimilate-you-are-part-of-germany-but-also-part-of-our-great-turkey-a-748070.html

Incidentally you don't have to fret about Turkey's border with Syria providing access for terrorists, the current border with Turkey suffices, besides which half of the so called rebels fighting in Syria come from within the EU anyway. Then there's freedom of religion and freedom of the press, there are few Countries in the world who have imprisoned more journalists than Turkey. As for Erdogan himself, he is an unstable megalomaniac who is more concerned with Lego making Jabba the Hutt's base resemble the Hagia Sofia in Istanbul, which somehow paints Muslims in a bad light, even though it was originally a church! Finally whilst preoccupied with lego Erdogan has presided over a tenfold increase in honour killings on his watch making Turkey number one offender in the world for this, far outstripping Pakistan.

Indeed the EU leadership are equally as insane as Erdogan is to even consider accession talks, at least we don't get to vote on it.

Not bad, 69 minutes after prediction made we switch from Steely Han to Steely Dan. Perhaps you two are related as you do have a very similar MO, if a somewhat different focus for your GFE.

Cyprus, ahhh, having clocked up a few years on that fascinating island, I fear you need to do some more homework. While a neat attempt to conflate the Israeli occupied territories with the 1974 Turkish invasion of northern Cyprus (and there are undoubted similarities in the 2 examples, with the Turks taking the role of the Israelis and the Greeks the Palestinians), your "fact that Turkey annexed Northern Cyprus as its own by military force" is actually not fact at all.

Turkey has never "annexed" Northern Cyprus, unlike Israel which formally annexed East Jerusalem (Palestinian territory annexed by Jordan) in 1980 and the Golan Heights (straight Syrian territory) in 1981. If you would like to read up on the 1963 Akritas Plan, the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee, the 1963 attempt at ethnic cleansing and subsequent deployment of the UN, the Greek junta inspired coup of 1974, the UDI by Northern Cyprus in 1983, and the Greek Cypriot rejection of the Annan Plan in 2004 (which was almost as dumb as Ararfat's rejection of the 2000 deal), you might see the situation in Cyprus in a different light.

Cyprus remains a major stumbling block to Turkey's membership of the EU (far more important than throughways for terrorists), and this is thoroughly exploited by Greece, which ironically should never have been allowed into the EU in the first place.

The EU decided to restart accession talks with Turkey - and it wasn't because of Cyprus or Greece.

Why anyway is anyone prattling on about Cyprus and such things as the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee there?

Are the EU and Turkey talking about these matters?

I think not.

folium · October 23, 2013

This news just shows the total disconnect between the unelected bureaucrats of the E.U and the wishes of it's citizens. First there is no getting round the fact that Turkey annexed Northern Cyprus as it's own by military force. In the case of say Israel and disputed territories taken post 1967 the E.U is considering boycotts of companies based in so called 'occupied territories'. Then we come to Turkish citizens within the E.U itself, perhaps a look at how this has worked out for Germany may be instructive. Incidentally Erdogan once commented that Turks living in Germany should not assimilate, so much for integration and a portent of the inner city no go zones that already can be found within Europe.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/erdogan-urges-turks-not-to-assimilate-you-are-part-of-germany-but-also-part-of-our-great-turkey-a-748070.html

Incidentally you don't have to fret about Turkey's border with Syria providing access for terrorists, the current border with Turkey suffices, besides which half of the so called rebels fighting in Syria come from within the EU anyway. Then there's freedom of religion and freedom of the press, there are few Countries in the world who have imprisoned more journalists than Turkey. As for Erdogan himself, he is an unstable megalomaniac who is more concerned with Lego making Jabba the Hutt's base resemble the Hagia Sofia in Istanbul, which somehow paints Muslims in a bad light, even though it was originally a church! Finally whilst preoccupied with lego Erdogan has presided over a tenfold increase in honour killings on his watch making Turkey number one offender in the world for this, far outstripping Pakistan.

Indeed the EU leadership are equally as insane as Erdogan is to even consider accession talks, at least we don't get to vote on it.

Not bad, 69 minutes after prediction made we switch from Steely Han to Steely Dan. Perhaps you two are related as you do have a very similar MO, if a somewhat different focus for your GFE.

Cyprus, ahhh, having clocked up a few years on that fascinating island, I fear you need to do some more homework. While a neat attempt to conflate the Israeli occupied territories with the 1974 Turkish invasion of northern Cyprus (and there are undoubted similarities in the 2 examples, with the Turks taking the role of the Israelis and the Greeks the Palestinians), your "fact that Turkey annexed Northern Cyprus as its own by military force" is actually not fact at all.

Turkey has never "annexed" Northern Cyprus, unlike Israel which formally annexed East Jerusalem (Palestinian territory annexed by Jordan) in 1980 and the Golan Heights (straight Syrian territory) in 1981. If you would like to read up on the 1963 Akritas Plan, the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee, the 1963 attempt at ethnic cleansing and subsequent deployment of the UN, the Greek junta inspired coup of 1974, the UDI by Northern Cyprus in 1983, and the Greek Cypriot rejection of the Annan Plan in 2004 (which was almost as dumb as Ararfat's rejection of the 2000 deal), you might see the situation in Cyprus in a different light.

Cyprus remains a major stumbling block to Turkey's membership of the EU (far more important than throughways for terrorists), and this is thoroughly exploited by Greece, which ironically should never have been allowed into the EU in the first place.

The EU decided to restart accession talks with Turkey - and it wasn't because of Cyprus or Greece.

Why anyway is anyone prattling on about Cyprus and such things as the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee there?

Are the EU and Turkey talking about these matters?

I think not.

Well you think completely wrong then...

Do a little homework on Cyprus before you hold forth, and you will see that it is fundamental to any deal re Turkish membership of the EU.

You are obviously not aware that the 1960 Treaty, the one you are so dismissive of, was the pretext on which the Turks invaded Cyprus in 1974, and their occupation of almost 40% of Cyprus continues to this day.

To get you started have a read of these:

http://www.europeanvoice.com/article/2013/october/eu-re-starts-talks-with-turkey/78509.aspx (especially the last paragraph)

http://www.economist.com/node/15065921 (a little dated but excellent for homework reading)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/25/us-germany-turkey-eu-idUSBRE91O10L20130225

PS whoops almost overlooked your apparent confusion about where Greece fits in to this little saga. The majority of the Cypriot population are Greek Cypriots and enosis (union with Greece) has been a recurrent theme since 1828. There has been a mainland Greek Army presence on Cyprus since 1960 (as part of your favourite Guarantee Treaty) plus advisers with the National Guard. The trouncing suffered by Greek and Greek Cypriot forces in 1974 has rankled ever since and Greece, as an existing EU member, has made full use of its powers to stymie Turkey's accession to the EU. Clearer now?

Publicus · October 23, 2013

Did the EU say it restarted accession talks with Turkey because of Cyprus? If so, did Turkey agree on such a basis?

Are the EU and Turkey presently discussing Cyprus at all?

Is Cyprus the predicate on which Turkey's potential membership of the EU is based?

Why at this point are some people so focused on their time in Cyprus that they effectively are transforming the thread into a Cyprus thread?

What?!

folium · October 23, 2013

Did the EU say it restarted accession talks with Turkey because of Cyprus? If so, did Turkey agree on such a basis?

Are the EU and Turkey presently discussing Cyprus at all?

Is Cyprus the predicate on which Turkey's potential membership of the EU is based?

Why at this point are some people so focused on their time in Cyprus that they effectively are transforming the thread into a Cyprus thread?

What?!

Calm down dear....

You expect people to read the endless links you post.

I have posted 3 simple and very helpful links.

Try reading them and they will enhance your learning, understanding and enable you to answer your own questions....

NeverSure · October 23, 2013

Did the EU say it restarted accession talks with Turkey because of Cyprus? If so, did Turkey agree on such a basis?

Are the EU and Turkey presently discussing Cyprus at all?

Is Cyprus the predicate on which Turkey's potential membership of the EU is based?

Why at this point are some people so focused on their time in Cyprus that they effectively are transforming the thread into a Cyprus thread?

What?!

Yes it seems that some with their own personal agendas have taken this subject clear off topic including whether it's in Asia, <deleted>.

Obviously the topic is only about Turkey's talks with The EU about joining.

The EU should be careful what they wish for. If they really want a country which has NATO's second largest military behind only the USA, 90 nukes on hand, more than 70 million Muslims many of which are radical extremists, and so on able to move freely to the richer states bringing their culture and their Turkish language, I say go for it.

While most of the original EU and Eurozone shared similar cultures, the Turks do not. Yes, in many ways Turkey is far more civilized and modernized than many other countries with a primary Muslim religion, but I can never forget that they follow the Koran.

Turkish people are tough and daring. Every male serves in the military and they take no crap off anyone including Saddam Hussein when he was around, and thought nothing of invading their end of Iraq when it suited them.

Oil and water don't mix and this is an example of that.

Turkey being strong and already a member of NATO is of some benefit and I say let it go at that. Don't let them loose all over Europe.

folium · October 23, 2013

Did the EU say it restarted accession talks with Turkey because of Cyprus? If so, did Turkey agree on such a basis?

Are the EU and Turkey presently discussing Cyprus at all?

Is Cyprus the predicate on which Turkey's potential membership of the EU is based?

Why at this point are some people so focused on their time in Cyprus that they effectively are transforming the thread into a Cyprus thread?

What?!

Yes it seems that some with their own personal agendas have taken this subject clear off topic including whether it's in Asia, <deleted>.

Obviously the topic is only about Turkey's talks with The EU about joining.

The EU should be careful what they wish for. If they really want a country which has NATO's second largest military behind only the USA, 90 nukes on hand, more than 70 million Muslims many of which are radical extremists, and so on able to move freely to the richer states bringing their culture and their Turkish language, I say go for it.

While most of the original EU and Eurozone shared similar cultures, the Turks do not. Yes, in many ways Turkey is far more civilized and modernized than many other countries with a primary Muslim religion, but I can never forget that they follow the Koran.

Turkish people are tough and daring. Every male serves in the military and they take no crap off anyone including Saddam Hussein when he was around, and thought nothing of invading their end of Iraq when it suited them.

Oil and water don't mix and this is an example of that.

Turkey being strong and already a member of NATO is of some benefit and I say let it go at that. Don't let them loose all over Europe.

If you didn't twig that the "we are all Asians" post was a gentle piece of tongue in cheekery, all I can say is sorry that the irony bypass has not cleared up yet.

Love to hear what my agenda is, but in the meantime if you cannot grasp the simple fact that Cyprus is one of the key issues preventing Turkey's EU membership, please have a look at some of the links above in previous posts.

Ignoring, or being ignorant of, Cyprus is like having a discussion on the Israel-Palestine issue whilst ignoring the status of Jerusalem.

Publicus · October 23, 2013

Dilettantism.

folium · October 23, 2013

Dilettantism.

Yes it must be a concern to be so afflicted.

Don't worry, I'm sure you will grow out of it.

At least you spelt it right!

Now back on topic:

From Tuesday's FT:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/4de2c362-3b20-11e3-87fa-00144feab7de.html#axzz2iZmvBiB9

Which reminds me of another way in which Cyprus gas a major impact on Turkey's plans re the EU. As an existing member of the EU, it,like Greece, can mess Turkey around.

Agenda or otherwise you need to get the simple point that Cyprus has more than a little to do with thus issue.

Publicus · October 23, 2013

Did the EU say it restarted accession talks with Turkey because of Cyprus? If so, did Turkey agree on such a basis?

Are the EU and Turkey presently discussing Cyprus at all?

Is Cyprus the predicate on which Turkey's potential membership of the EU is based?

Why at this point are some people so focused on their time in Cyprus that they effectively are transforming the thread into a Cyprus thread?

What?!

Calm down dear....

You expect people to read the endless links you post.

I have posted 3 simple and very helpful links.

Try reading them and they will enhance your learning, understanding and enable you to answer your own questions....

Pity to miss the irony of my post.

Rhetorical.

When also did I say I expect anything of posters at TVF, beyond adhering to the Rules? I offer links, I don't expect any more than I require. That is, I neither expect nor could I require.

Stop driving the Forum in a downward spiral, okay?

You're one post away from the Ignore function.

Scott · October 24, 2013

Keep the discussion civil.

simple1 · October 24, 2013

From the OP Turkey has only managed to successfully finalise one of 35 policy matters to be accepted to join the EU, so many years ahead for potential acceptance. As Folium pointed out the issue of the Greek & Cypriot governments push back against Turkish membership of the EU is one of critical issues.

Under the current Turkish PM there has been a trend away from secular government to an Islamist society, unless this trend can be reversed this would be a killer objection for EU membership. Currently the US/NATO views Turkey as a key partner in the “War on Terror”. However, Turkey, a majority Sunni country, has recently voiced support for Hamas (Sunni) after it distanced itself from the Assad regime.

A Turkish national’s analysis, published in the New York Times a few days ago, for the potential of sectarian violence due to the trend to a Sunni Islamist state at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/08/opinion/erdogan-stokes-the-sectarian-fires.html

Steely Dan · October 24, 2013

From the OP Turkey has only managed to successfully finalise one of 35 policy matters to be accepted to join the EU, so many years ahead for potential acceptance. As Folium pointed out the issue of the Greek & Cypriot governments push back against Turkish membership of the EU is one of critical issues.

Under the current Turkish PM there has been a trend away from secular government to an Islamist society, unless this trend can be reversed this would be a killer objection for EU membership. Currently the US/NATO views Turkey as a key partner in the “War on Terror”. However, Turkey, a majority Sunni country, has recently voiced support for Hamas (Sunni) after it distanced itself from the Assad regime.

A Turkish national’s analysis, published in the New York Times a few days ago, for the potential of sectarian violence due to the trend to a Sunni Islamist state at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/08/opinion/erdogan-stokes-the-sectarian-fires.html

That hasn't stopped the unelected bureaucrats of the EU from spending EU taxpayer's money to upgrade Turkish sewage systems.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107942/Britain-gives-80m-aid-Turkey-help-upgrade-nation-s-sewer-system.html

I have little doubt the 35 policy matters you refer to will be fudged, forgotten or brushed under the carpets as the end seems to justify all means, the end being of course the policy we never see nor get a say in. You are of course right in pointing out the direction Erdogan is taking Turkey in, incidentally he has also given a deadline of 2023 for Turkey to join the E.U, the 'or else' should this not happen has not been spelled out in detail.

Steely Dan · October 24, 2013

This news just shows the total disconnect between the unelected bureaucrats of the E.U and the wishes of it's citizens. First there is no getting round the fact that Turkey annexed Northern Cyprus as it's own by military force. In the case of say Israel and disputed territories taken post 1967 the E.U is considering boycotts of companies based in so called 'occupied territories'. Then we come to Turkish citizens within the E.U itself, perhaps a look at how this has worked out for Germany may be instructive. Incidentally Erdogan once commented that Turks living in Germany should not assimilate, so much for integration and a portent of the inner city no go zones that already can be found within Europe.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/erdogan-urges-turks-not-to-assimilate-you-are-part-of-germany-but-also-part-of-our-great-turkey-a-748070.html

Incidentally you don't have to fret about Turkey's border with Syria providing access for terrorists, the current border with Turkey suffices, besides which half of the so called rebels fighting in Syria come from within the EU anyway. Then there's freedom of religion and freedom of the press, there are few Countries in the world who have imprisoned more journalists than Turkey. As for Erdogan himself, he is an unstable megalomaniac who is more concerned with Lego making Jabba the Hutt's base resemble the Hagia Sofia in Istanbul, which somehow paints Muslims in a bad light, even though it was originally a church! Finally whilst preoccupied with lego Erdogan has presided over a tenfold increase in honour killings on his watch making Turkey number one offender in the world for this, far outstripping Pakistan.

Indeed the EU leadership are equally as insane as Erdogan is to even consider accession talks, at least we don't get to vote on it.

Not bad, 69 minutes after prediction made we switch from Steely Han to Steely Dan. Perhaps you two are related as you do have a very similar MO, if a somewhat different focus for your GFE.

Cyprus, ahhh, having clocked up a few years on that fascinating island, I fear you need to do some more homework. While a neat attempt to conflate the Israeli occupied territories with the 1974 Turkish invasion of northern Cyprus (and there are undoubted similarities in the 2 examples, with the Turks taking the role of the Israelis and the Greeks the Palestinians), your "fact that Turkey annexed Northern Cyprus as its own by military force" is actually not fact at all.

Turkey has never "annexed" Northern Cyprus, unlike Israel which formally annexed East Jerusalem (Palestinian territory annexed by Jordan) in 1980 and the Golan Heights (straight Syrian territory) in 1981. If you would like to read up on the 1963 Akritas Plan, the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee, the 1963 attempt at ethnic cleansing and subsequent deployment of the UN, the Greek junta inspired coup of 1974, the UDI by Northern Cyprus in 1983, and the Greek Cypriot rejection of the Annan Plan in 2004 (which was almost as dumb as Ararfat's rejection of the 2000 deal), you might see the situation in Cyprus in a different light.

Cyprus remains a major stumbling block to Turkey's membership of the EU (far more important than throughways for terrorists), and this is thoroughly exploited by Greece, which ironically should never have been allowed into the EU in the first place.

Cut to the realpolitik and quit with the smokescreens oh self appointed authority on everything under the sun. The second that Southern Cyprus started undersea exploration for oil, in tandem with Israel, the Turkish sent warships to hassle the exploration vessels and began saber rattling, on behalf of the sovereign state of North Cyprus of course, which only Turkey recognizes.

P.S You never really left the school debating society did you? Plate tectonics are a stretch even for you, though I'd better be careful to humour you, or you will no doubt accuse me of Gondwanalandophobia and start singing the virtues of why dinosaurs should be allowed to paddle north across the Tethys sea, if that's what they desire.

simple1 · October 24, 2013

From the OP Turkey has only managed to successfully finalise one of 35 policy matters to be accepted to join the EU, so many years ahead for potential acceptance. As Folium pointed out the issue of the Greek & Cypriot governments push back against Turkish membership of the EU is one of critical issues.

Under the current Turkish PM there has been a trend away from secular government to an Islamist society, unless this trend can be reversed this would be a killer objection for EU membership. Currently the US/NATO views Turkey as a key partner in the “War on Terror”. However, Turkey, a majority Sunni country, has recently voiced support for Hamas (Sunni) after it distanced itself from the Assad regime.

A Turkish national’s analysis, published in the New York Times a few days ago, for the potential of sectarian violence due to the trend to a Sunni Islamist state at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/08/opinion/erdogan-stokes-the-sectarian-fires.html

That hasn't stopped the unelected bureaucrats of the EU from spending EU taxpayer's money to upgrade Turkish sewage systems.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107942/Britain-gives-80m-aid-Turkey-help-upgrade-nation-s-sewer-system.html

I have little doubt the 35 policy matters you refer to will be fudged, forgotten or brushed under the carpets as the end seems to justify all means, the end being of course the policy we never see nor get a say in. You are of course right in pointing out the direction Erdogan is taking Turkey in, incidentally he has also given a deadline of 2023 for Turkey to join the E.U, the 'or else' should this not happen has not been spelled out in detail.

I'll disagree with your observation that the EC will brush under the carpet the outstanding 34 requirements for membership. In fact there is quite a bit of discussion of why Turkey should even be actively reconsidered due to it's current human rights issues, Cyprus, challenges currently facing the existing EU members etc

The request for Patriot missile systems during the esculation of tensions with Syria underlines Turkey's weakness in defending itself from foreign aggression and truly requires the threat provided by way of a strategic nuclear umbrella provided by NATO. It is estimated that approx 70 tactical nuclear weapons are located at the main US airbase in Turkey. So whilst Turkey may not acheive it's goal of EU membership by 2023, it is generally accepted that Turkey will remain a NATO partner.

For those interested I have provided some URLs below that cover the above in more detail.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-press-criticize-erdogan-eu-accession-ultimatum-a-864734.html

http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2012/al-monitor/patriot-missiles-turkey-nato.html

http://www.bilgesam.org/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=578:turkeys-approach-towards-nuclear-armament&catid=122:analizler-guvenlik&Itemid=144

chuckd · October 24, 2013

While it is apparent the Cyprus situation with Greece is of paramount importance, it would seem the EU should also consider the reliability of a Turkey that seems to have other, much deeper, loyalties.

The operativeportion of one of the three sentences is... "as Ankara grows closer to Hamas and the Iranian regime."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reports: U.S. Cancels Drone Sales to Turkey Over Intel Disclosure to Iran

Turkey exposed identity of up to 10 Iranians working for Israelis

BY: Adam Kredo

October 23, 2013 11:59 am

The United States has reportedly cancelled the delivery of 10 unmanned Predator drones to Turkey following Ankara’s disclosure of several Israeli intelligence officials operating in Iran, according to Turkish press reports.

The cancellation of these drones would be another setback for U.S.-Turkey relations, which have cooled in recent months as Ankara grows closer to Hamas and the Iranian regime.

Relations between Turkey and the West hit another speed bump last week when it came to light that Ankara had exposed the identities of up to 10 Iranians working on behalf of the Israelis in 2012.

http://freebeacon.com/reports-u-s-cancels-drone-sales-to-turkey-over-intel-disclosure-to-iran/

folium · October 24, 2013

This news just shows the total disconnect between the unelected bureaucrats of the E.U and the wishes of it's citizens. First there is no getting round the fact that Turkey annexed Northern Cyprus as it's own by military force. In the case of say Israel and disputed territories taken post 1967 the E.U is considering boycotts of companies based in so called 'occupied territories'. Then we come to Turkish citizens within the E.U itself, perhaps a look at how this has worked out for Germany may be instructive. Incidentally Erdogan once commented that Turks living in Germany should not assimilate, so much for integration and a portent of the inner city no go zones that already can be found within Europe.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/erdogan-urges-turks-not-to-assimilate-you-are-part-of-germany-but-also-part-of-our-great-turkey-a-748070.html

Incidentally you don't have to fret about Turkey's border with Syria providing access for terrorists, the current border with Turkey suffices, besides which half of the so called rebels fighting in Syria come from within the EU anyway. Then there's freedom of religion and freedom of the press, there are few Countries in the world who have imprisoned more journalists than Turkey. As for Erdogan himself, he is an unstable megalomaniac who is more concerned with Lego making Jabba the Hutt's base resemble the Hagia Sofia in Istanbul, which somehow paints Muslims in a bad light, even though it was originally a church! Finally whilst preoccupied with lego Erdogan has presided over a tenfold increase in honour killings on his watch making Turkey number one offender in the world for this, far outstripping Pakistan.

Indeed the EU leadership are equally as insane as Erdogan is to even consider accession talks, at least we don't get to vote on it.

Not bad, 69 minutes after prediction made we switch from Steely Han to Steely Dan. Perhaps you two are related as you do have a very similar MO, if a somewhat different focus for your GFE.
Cyprus, ahhh, having clocked up a few years on that fascinating island, I fear you need to do some more homework. While a neat attempt to conflate the Israeli occupied territories with the 1974 Turkish invasion of northern Cyprus (and there are undoubted similarities in the 2 examples, with the Turks taking the role of the Israelis and the Greeks the Palestinians), your "fact that Turkey annexed Northern Cyprus as its own by military force" is actually not fact at all.

Turkey has never "annexed" Northern Cyprus, unlike Israel which formally annexed East Jerusalem (Palestinian territory annexed by Jordan) in 1980 and the Golan Heights (straight Syrian territory) in 1981. If you would like to read up on the 1963 Akritas Plan, the 1960 Treaty of Guarantee, the 1963 attempt at ethnic cleansing and subsequent deployment of the UN, the Greek junta inspired coup of 1974, the UDI by Northern Cyprus in 1983, and the Greek Cypriot rejection of the Annan Plan in 2004 (which was almost as dumb as Ararfat's rejection of the 2000 deal), you might see the situation in Cyprus in a different light.

Cyprus remains a major stumbling block to Turkey's membership of the EU (far more important than throughways for terrorists), and this is thoroughly exploited by Greece, which ironically should never have been allowed into the EU in the first place.

Cut to the realpolitik and quit with the smokescreens oh self appointed authority on everything under the sun. The second that Southern Cyprus started undersea exploration for oil, in tandem with Israel, the Turkish sent warships to hassle the exploration vessels and began saber rattling, on behalf of the sovereign state of North Cyprus of course, which only Turkey recognizes.
P.S You never really left the school debating society did you? Plate tectonics are a stretch even for you, though I'd better be careful to humour you, or you will no doubt accuse me of Gondwanalandophobia and start singing the virtues of why dinosaurs should be allowed to paddle north across the Tethys sea, if that's what they desire.

Thank you for those kind words, though it was a shame you couldn't fit in the usual "leftish liberal" line, which always makes my day.

"Authority on everything under the sun", no not really, I just focus on topics that interest me and I have some knowledge of. That saves me from posting bo**ocks.

Talking of which there is no such place as "Southern Cyprus". That's like saying the Pentagon is in East Virginia or Israel is West Palestine!

Bo**ocks Part 2: the Israeli Leviathan field and Cypriot Aphrodite field are/will be gas fields not oil. Close but no cigar....

While the scale of the Aphrodite field has recently been reduced by a third, Leviathan lives up to its name. The impact of gas extraction and more importantly by what route it is exported could either lower or exacerbate tensions in the as ever fascinating Eastern Med.

While the Cuprus conundrum is fundamental to Turkey's EU ambitions we will have to wait out to see if the gas finds have a positive or negative impact on a resolution in Cyprus, which could in turn remove one more obstacle if Turkey wants to join the EU.

PS don't get me started on plate tectonics, another pet subject!

Scott · October 24, 2013

An inflammatory post has been deleted. Please try to post with out the unnecessary remarks.

Please keep the discussion civil. Further nasty comments will be deleted and it is noted that there is more than one person starting to cross the line.

Your cooperation is appreciated.

Steely Dan · October 24, 2013

From the OP Turkey has only managed to successfully finalise one of 35 policy matters to be accepted to join the EU, so many years ahead for potential acceptance. As Folium pointed out the issue of the Greek & Cypriot governments push back against Turkish membership of the EU is one of critical issues.

Under the current Turkish PM there has been a trend away from secular government to an Islamist society, unless this trend can be reversed this would be a killer objection for EU membership. Currently the US/NATO views Turkey as a key partner in the “War on Terror”. However, Turkey, a majority Sunni country, has recently voiced support for Hamas (Sunni) after it distanced itself from the Assad regime.

A Turkish national’s analysis, published in the New York Times a few days ago, for the potential of sectarian violence due to the trend to a Sunni Islamist state at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/08/opinion/erdogan-stokes-the-sectarian-fires.html

That hasn't stopped the unelected bureaucrats of the EU from spending EU taxpayer's money to upgrade Turkish sewage systems.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107942/Britain-gives-80m-aid-Turkey-help-upgrade-nation-s-sewer-system.html

I have little doubt the 35 policy matters you refer to will be fudged, forgotten or brushed under the carpets as the end seems to justify all means, the end being of course the policy we never see nor get a say in. You are of course right in pointing out the direction Erdogan is taking Turkey in, incidentally he has also given a deadline of 2023 for Turkey to join the E.U, the 'or else' should this not happen has not been spelled out in detail.

I'll disagree with your observation that the EC will brush under the carpet the outstanding 34 requirements for membership. In fact there is quite a bit of discussion of why Turkey should even be actively reconsidered due to it's current human rights issues, Cyprus, challenges currently facing the existing EU members etc

We shall see, but the way the EC conducts it's business does not inspire confidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4QmqaMEpGY

folium · October 24, 2013

From the OP Turkey has only managed to successfully finalise one of 35 policy matters to be accepted to join the EU, so many years ahead for potential acceptance. As Folium pointed out the issue of the Greek & Cypriot governments push back against Turkish membership of the EU is one of critical issues.

Under the current Turkish PM there has been a trend away from secular government to an Islamist society, unless this trend can be reversed this would be a killer objection for EU membership. Currently the US/NATO views Turkey as a key partner in the “War on Terror”. However, Turkey, a majority Sunni country, has recently voiced support for Hamas (Sunni) after it distanced itself from the Assad regime.

A Turkish national’s analysis, published in the New York Times a few days ago, for the potential of sectarian violence due to the trend to a Sunni Islamist state at:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/08/opinion/erdogan-stokes-the-sectarian-fires.html

That hasn't stopped the unelected bureaucrats of the EU from spending EU taxpayer's money to upgrade Turkish sewage systems.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107942/Britain-gives-80m-aid-Turkey-help-upgrade-nation-s-sewer-system.html

I have little doubt the 35 policy matters you refer to will be fudged, forgotten or brushed under the carpets as the end seems to justify all means, the end being of course the policy we never see nor get a say in. You are of course right in pointing out the direction Erdogan is taking Turkey in, incidentally he has also given a deadline of 2023 for Turkey to join the E.U, the 'or else' should this not happen has not been spelled out in detail.

I'll disagree with your observation that the EC will brush under the carpet the outstanding 34 requirements for membership. In fact there is quite a bit of discussion of why Turkey should even be actively reconsidered due to it's current human rights issues, Cyprus, challenges currently facing the existing EU members etc

We shall see, but the way the EC conducts it's business does not inspire confidence.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4QmqaMEpGY

Ah the "right Honourable" Stephen Clark MEP who has recently had to pay back 32,000 pounds he had "inadvertently" misappropriated from the EU. At least he hadn't spent it on fine wines and a new car like his fellow UKIP MEP Tom Wise, now doing time for this theft of 39,000 pounds of public funds.

The way UKIP members conduct their business does not inspire confidence, especially when they claim to be the "good guys"....

Steely Dan · October 25, 2013

@Folium,

The video of the European parliament voting on unknown alterations to amendments demonstrates the abuse of process which makes any accession talks with Turkey prone to being steamrollered through in a similar manner. Any dirty laundry relating to the question raiser is completely irrelevant and even further off topic than usual, even for you. The same applies to whether it's oil or gas in the med, Turkey is still using theats of military intervention to support claims based on their previous illegal military action. As for what Cyprus is called, there would be no issue here too had Turkey not invaded it.

Staying within 7 degrees of separation to the topic is surely not so difficult? Think Turkey, EU, not plate tectonics or UKIP, allow me to demonstrate;-

http://www.thecommentator.com/article/416/the_trouble_with_turkey

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/the-gulenist-subversion-of-turkey-by-dani-rodrik

Not the kind of regime that would sit happily among western democracies, is it?

Chicog · October 25, 2013

I think if you ask the majority of EU citizens, they'll say they don't want them. So where do these unelected prats get off even considering it?

The next UK election is going to be won and lost on immigration. I don't think the UK will accept another nation of muslim immigrants arriving on its shores making demands.

simple1 · October 25, 2013

I think if you ask the majority of EU citizens, they'll say they don't want them. So where do these unelected prats get off even considering it?

The next UK election is going to be won and lost on immigration. I don't think the UK will accept another nation of muslim immigrants arriving on its shores making demands.

Turkey was recognised as a candidate for full membership in 1999 by the European Council. The Council is comprised of Heads of State or government of the EU member states. Therefore do not understand your comment “unelected prats”; perhaps you can explain?

As stated above Turkey has only completed one of the 35 policy requirement for EU membership, in 13 years, that all EU member governments must satisfy themselves for compliance.

Chicog · October 26, 2013

Letting a muslim country join the EU would cause the mother of all backlashes if you ask me.

So not hard to guess that that tosser Blair put his signature to it, was it?

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