Rare modified gun used to kill Jakkrit: forensic chief

[Lite Beer]

CRIME
Rare modified gun used to kill Jakkrit: forensic chief
The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- Forensic Science Police chief Pol Maj-Gen Kamrob Panyakaew revealed yesterday that the five bullets which killed former Olympian marksman Jakkrit Panichpatikum on October 19, were manufactured in Russia and came from a modified gun.

He said such ammunition was quite rare and most probably belonged to a gun enthusiast, or someone knowledgeable about guns, as the gun used in the shooting needed to have been modified to use the ammunition.

Police are investigating three possible motives for the shooting, including a conflict related to the amulet trade; a disagreement with the Thai shooting association; and a dispute with Jakkrit's family.

Investigators said they were leaning towards the latter motive as the most probable.

-- The Nation 2013-10-27

[Bakseeda]

Another one bites the dust.... !

[slapout]

Well if the Thai police already know this much about the weapon used in this murder, why would theey advertise this. If the weapon is not at the bottom of a river, lake, or sewer system at this press release, it should be shortly. Its a wonder they did not give out the serial number and caliber while giving the latest 'its a tough case' press release.

[NeverSure]

A source that can't be quoted said he was out on bail for firing a gun at home and assaulting his wife. Attempted murder, assault...

Apparently he had a history of violence, drugs, sexual affairs and other problems.

I wonder if the police have ruled out a hit set up by his wife?

Maybe he lived a life that can get you killed in Thailand.

[ezzra]

Could it be that the gun was a 3D printed gun?

[NeverSure]

Well if the Thai police already know this much about the weapon used in this murder, why would theey advertise this. If the weapon is not at the bottom of a river, lake, or sewer system at this press release, it should be shortly. Its a wonder they did not give out the serial number and caliber while giving the latest 'its a tough case' press release.

It's said to be a 9mm, but there's more than one type of 9mm.

The OP says that "the gun used in the shooting..." so do they have it? How else would they know it needed to be modified to fire the bullets?

I believe that all 9mm guns are semi-automatic. More accurately I should say I don't know of any. If true the gun ejects the spent rounds and they should be found on the ground, unlike say a revolver.

So if they have a gun thereby knowing it had to be modified because they also have some cartridges in the gun and/or spent casings, then I see nothing wrong with saying it. It might lead to a tip about who had such a gun.

Some Thais are incredibly violent, and life seems so cheap.

[NeverSure]

Could it be that the gun was a 3D printed gun?

That doesn't ring true to me because the OP says that the gun would have to be modified.

I think I could come up with a list of almost 20 different 9mm cartridges, but the "other" one I hear about most is the 9x18 "mak" or "Makarov" but that ammo is still readily available.

The common one is called various names such as 9mm Luger and 9mm Parabellum and 9mm NATO and so on.

[Thaddeus]

He said such ammunition was quite rare and most probably belonged to a gun enthusiast, or someone knowledgeable about guns, as the gun used in the shooting needed to have been modified to use the ammunition.

Could have been owned by the sort of person who would enter shooting contests?

[rametindallas]

A serial killer would be totally overlooked in this country. People easily and regularly murdered with no shortage of suspects or motives. Yes, a serial killer could go a lifetime and no one would suspect a serial killer is on the prowl. I don't envy the police in their hunt for murderers; too many of them; both amateur and professional.

[MMarlow]

Another one bites the dust.... !

You're a bit late with that comment.

[MMarlow]

Well if the Thai police already know this much about the weapon used in this murder, why would theey advertise this. If the weapon is not at the bottom of a river, lake, or sewer system at this press release, it should be shortly. Its a wonder they did not give out the serial number and caliber while giving the latest 'its a tough case' press release.

Then again if they did not make any announcements about progress in the case that would give certain types the opportunity to complain about lack of information being provided to the TV investigators.

[MMarlow]

A source that can't be quoted said he was out on bail for firing a gun at home and assaulting his wife. Attempted murder, assault...

Apparently he had a history of violence, drugs, sexual affairs and other problems.

I wonder if the police have ruled out a hit set up by his wife?

Maybe he lived a life that can get you killed in Thailand.

If you read the report you'd answer your own question.

[MMarlow]

Could it be that the gun was a 3D printed gun?

That doesn't ring true to me because the OP says that the gun would have to be modified.

I think I could come up with a list of almost 20 different 9mm cartridges, but the "other" one I hear about most is the 9x18 "mak" or "Makarov" but that ammo is still readily available.

The common one is called various names such as 9mm Luger and 9mm Parabellum and 9mm NATO and so on.

Ok, you've proved yourself to be a gun expert in your own mind but you don't seem to realise what a "printed" gun is that the satirical post you quoted referred to..."That doesn't ring true to me"!

[EyesWideOpen]

A serial killer would be totally overlooked in this country. People easily and regularly murdered with no shortage of suspects or motives. Yes, a serial killer could go a lifetime and no one would suspect a serial killer is on the prowl. I don't envy the police in their hunt for murderers; too many of them; both amateur and professional.

Don't envy them too much. A lot of contract killings are done by off duty police......

[Manbing]

Ok I am not sherlock holmes, but I was struck by this quite obvoius link. 3 possible suspects, amulet salesman, rifle association, family member.

The police are searching for a shooter using a modified gun, most probaby modified by an enthusast the sort of person who might for example be part of a gun club of sorts.

Conclusion, probably disgruntled family member???

Perhaps I am naive and its common for Thai spouses and family to possess specialised military ordinance?

[DGIE]

speaking of gun. lots of gun sold in Old Siam. It is like a market of gun but in shops/stores with glass windows so people can see.

Sellers there are more than the sellers of noodles in number. Gunshops occupied both sides of the road

[BlackJack]

misdirection

people see what you want them to see

Swordfish

[SjaakNL2013]

What i found strange is that the rounds they shown on TV last evening both where flatten. They also lay far apart from each other, about 3 to 4 meter.If this are the rounds the criminals used to kill the guy or only thrown on the ground for bringing the police on a wrong leg.

I think it's a little strange that the police can conduct an those rounds what type of modifications are make to the pistol. Maybe they have more information then they show or just fishing with their eyes close.

But, as said in my first comment...check the family ties, alibi's, money movements or missing jewelry.

[mekongsailor]

Beneath a link to very rare ammunition only produced in Russia. Nobody said it was a 9mm. So maybe it could have been a 7.62x??

http://world.guns.ru/ammunition/russian-special-cartridges-e.html

[pizzachang]

If there is enough left of the bullet, I suppose origin 'could' be determined - bullets are fairly generic though. Brass or nickel-plated brass casings are usually stamped on the base w/ enough marks to discern manufacture. "Specially modified" sounds strange to me as well as determining where the supposed gun was manufactured. Probably more info here than is public.

[OMGImInPattaya]

Who cares...from what I've read, the guy was a thug and a menence to his own family...good riddance.

[coma]

Thai news is reporting that they are emphisising on members of his wife's side of the family. The wife accessed his safety deposit box whists they were separated which was all over the news a month ago. When she was forced to open it for police after his death there was only Budda Amlets in it. Nothing that should have concerned here. Also the police say that there was money lent to Ekk by his inlaws. It is a widely known fact that Ekk wanted to return to his wife when he got released on bail but, once again the inlaws wanted nothing to do with it. Also, police now know that the M-16 they found at Ekk's house during the search wasn't his and they are now conducting extensive forensic fingerprint on it to help determine who the real owner is.

Furthermore, the wife was pulled in a 4th time today and was " grilled " by detectives for 4 hours before she was allowed to leave. Not stopping to talk to media awaiting outside the police station. Police also stated that the statements made by some 17 people related to the wife were contradicting therefore they would be re- interviewed for clarification.

It is this evidence that has the police adding more weight to it being a member of the wife's family as opposed to a grudge with somebody in the shooting community. As for amlets being a possible motive. The police have now ruled it out.

One point of interest the police have observed on the cctv footage of the hit. They noted the 2 gunmen as being very confident and proficient it the use of firearms and they were "particularly cool headed" . To the extent that they declared that a pro hitman would not have have been as cool. I guess maybe that info plus the fact that the murder weapon is somewhat exotic and customed [ was changed from 7.65mm to chamber a 9mm ] may have them thinking they belong to a gun club community.

As of today they have 2 people in custody whom the police say were seen in the cctv footgate pointing out the target to the hitmen. They also think that they have found the bike the hitmen used.

Edited October 27, 2013 by coma

[Arkady]

Could it be that the gun was a 3D printed gun?

That doesn't ring true to me because the OP says that the gun would have to be modified.

I think I could come up with a list of almost 20 different 9mm cartridges, but the "other" one I hear about most is the 9x18 "mak" or "Makarov" but that ammo is still readily available.

The common one is called various names such as 9mm Luger and 9mm Parabellum and 9mm NATO and so on.

The 9mm Luger is the same as the 9mm Parabellum which was invented by Georg Luger. The 9mm NATO is the same size but has a slightly more powerful load, although it doesn't need a modified gun.

Here are some more types that will not readily fit in the same gun: 9mm Action Express, 9mm Bayard Long, 9mm Browning Long, 9mm Centerfire (which is actually a shotgun shell), 9mm Makarov, 9mm Ultra, 9mm Winchester Magnum, and 9mm Short (.380 ACP) just to name a few.

Thailand doesn't manufacture or import a very wide range of ammunition and Thai police might think any 9mm other than the standard 9mm Parabellum is quite rare. Anyway it didn't say it was 9mm. A .40 calibre Glock might be considered unusual, although it is the standard issue weapon of many US police departments. All ammo that is commercially manufactured is manufactured for a specific range of guns. Therefore it is hard to imagine what kind of ammo requires a modified gun, unless it is modified ammo. So the police statement makes little sense at face value. It either means that modified ammo was used that did require a modified gun, or more likely that non-standard ammo was used that would either require a gun not common in Thailand or modification of a gun that is common in Thailand.

Competition shooters in Olympic or SE Asian games use only .22 pistols and air pistols. A .22 pistol is used by some assassins but it has to be used for close up head shots and not through car windows because it is not powerful enough. Some killers like the fact that it doesn't make so much noise as a larger calibre weapon and the lower velocity makes the bullet go travel around inside the skull more than a larger calibre round that might exit without causing so much damage and could hit someone else too.

[coma]

The gun was modified from 7.65 which is .32 cal to take 9mm ammo. Why ? 9mm ammo is much more available and heaps cheaper in Thailand than .32 cal. Much more effective as well. Something similar to this Makarov Izh 71

More pics of Makarovs here from prototype 1947 to first production in 1949 all the way to 1965 model.

http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg/rus/makarov-pm-pmm-e.html

Edited October 27, 2013 by coma

[Curt1591]

The article said "bullets". It didn't mention casings.

How different would the slugs be from the different variations?

[coma]

The article said "bullets". It didn't mention casings.

How different would the slugs be from the different variations?

Yes. They recovered bullets from the body. However they do also have the casings that were left at the crime scene.

I am no ballistics expert but I am sure that the projectiles from different ammo manufactuers would be quite noticably different to a Forensic Ballistics lab/ expert.

I also believe that in some instances forensics can pick the difference in projectiles between batches of the same ammo.

[coma]

What i found strange is that the rounds they shown on TV last evening both where flatten. They also lay far apart from each other, about 3 to 4 meter.If this are the rounds the criminals used to kill the guy or only thrown on the ground for bringing the police on a wrong leg.

Spent cases flatten quite easily when run over by vehicles on a road. I doubt they threw 'jack' cases at the scene to fool police. That would be near impossible considering that if so, they would need to be catching all the ejected cases coming out as gunman was firing. All this on the back of a scooby.

[dighambara]

Well if the Thai police already know this much about the weapon used in this murder, why would theey advertise this. If the weapon is not at the bottom of a river, lake, or sewer system at this press release, it should be shortly. Its a wonder they did not give out the serial number and caliber while giving the latest 'its a tough case' press release.

I dunno - I had a Mauser pistol in 7.63 MM, but Russian 7.62 worked fine, so such statements cannot be taken at face value.

[bangon04]

Could it be that the gun was a 3D printed gun?

Let's hope not, otherwise every technical college student in Bangkok will want one, and then no bus driver will be safe...

[DGIE]

ezzra, on 27 Oct 2013 - 10:09, said:

Could it be that the gun was a 3D printed gun?

It's not. It is the one sold in the sidewalk