Marriage Visa Extension Denied - Even Tough I Met All Requirements

[thedragon]

Hello

I've been "lurking" on these forums for several years, but have now found myself having to register in order to post this

I have been living in Thailand, married to my Thai wife, for the past 4 years and have had a total of 4 marriage visa extensions, based on income that I have from outside of Thailand, from a trust fund where I am paid approximately 80,000 Baht on a monthly basis.

On all my past marriage visa extensions, I have always supplied a letter from the Embassy, confirming my income, as well as the wire transfer slips for every month for the past 12 months showing the sending bank abroad and the funds being deposited into the bank account here.

I have always received my visa extension without problems. Not so however when I went this time.

The officer at Chaeng Watthana Immigration took my documents, which are all complete, then read through them for a few minutes and then asked me where I had the 400,000 deposited in the bank account. I told him that I didn't have this, however my bank book still showed a balance of around 210,000 Baht. I then proceeded to explain to him that I always did my renewal with my monthly income and before I could even finish explaining, he interrupted me and said if I didn't have the 400,000 in the bank account, he could not give me an extension.

I then looked up the police order on my iPad where it says that I could show either 40,000 Baht per month in income or 400,000 Baht in the bank account for my extension and that I had done this for the past 4 years. He then said that he didn't know who did my past extensions but they clearly didn't know the immigration law and that I should have never received those extensions.

At this point, I'm getting a bit concerned and I asked for his supervisor. After much begging, he finally let me speak to his supervisor and she told me and my wife that it was not up to her and if the officer didn't want to give me an extension, he didn't have to. She also said that she didn't know anything about the requirements and that I had to speak to him, so I was back at the dead end.

I tried to explain to him the entire law again. He read it for a few minutes and then said that the 40,000 Baht income option did only apply if I had a work permit and if I was working in Thailand. I asked him how that was possible ...if I had a work permit and was working in Thailand, I wouldn't need a marriage visa extension, right?

He then refused to listen to me and said again that he would not give me an extension. I told him okay, I'll go home and try another day. He then said that I would get the same refusal on another day and that he would "tell all other officers not to give me a marriage visa extension" if I came back. He also said that if I didn't have enough money, I should go back to my home country and my wife should look for another husband.

My wife and I were both shocked my that answer and she asked him to give us back the documents and the passport. He then refused to give back the passport until I signed a document that stated that I would have 400,000 Baht in my bank account for the next extension. I told him I would not sign this as I want to do the extension based on my monthly income. He then said if I didn't sign it, he would cancel my current extension of stay immediately and I would need to leave Thailand today. That was at 4pm, so I had no other choice but to sign it.

He handed me my passport, laughed and told me to get out.

I am still in a state of shock, as you can probably understand and am planning on leaving Thailand for Laos to get a multiple entry O visa in the next few days before my current extension expires.

But then what? Should I get a lawyer involved or...?

I always go to Immigration well dressed, well mannered, etc. I'm not walking in there with shorts and sandals (nothing against those who do), so I don't know why I was treated this way.

My wife and I have a 3 Million Baht house here, a car, all fully paid, she goes to work every day and provides additional income to my 80,000 Baht per month ...and that since 4 years now. It's not like I don't have money to care for my family and we won't live on the street anytime soon, if that's what Immigration is worried about. I simply can't afford to have 400,000 Baht locked in a bank account for 3 months to do the extension that way, because we also have bills to pay.

I'm at a loss here and hopefully someone can help me.

[oldexp]

Sorry to read this.

Seems they can do what ever they feel like.

Just going through renewal myself. Every year the guy asks for more documents. Seems they get a quota like -papers must be at least 1 cm high and anyway we are Thai and they are only Farang.

Seems to me, that you are right about the money either or but unfortunately I can't give you any helpful advice.

Just wish you good luck and hope you can sort it out.

Cheers

[fifthcolumn]

Thanks for this useful post.

It makes me sorry I got married as much as I lovemy wife and wish to be with her forever. The entire process is wholly out of control, and now it appears to be affecting Bangkok - that last vestige of sense and sensibility.

[Maestro]

It looks to me like your are a victim of what I call "information overload", ie you gave the immigration officer far too much information, too many documents, which at first glance made him think that you were applying on the basis of money in the bank and subsequently he refused to acknowledge his error.

For an extension of stay with income as proof of financials, nothing but the embassy letter should be proffered and only if the officer asks for supporting documents confirming this income should these documents be given.

Remittances to your Thai bank account are money coming into Thailand but they are not evidence of income. If such evidence is required it will, in your case, have to be a letter from the trust attesting, certifying or confirming the payments being made to you.

A bank book is not required for an extension based on income. However, sometimes an immigration officer may want to see that you are actually spending some money from your own pocket and in such case a bank book showing some money being credited and withdrawn is one way of proving it and should be sufficient to allay his possible suspicion that you might be working illegally in Thailand.

You are now in a difficult situation because the immigration officer coerced you to sign a statement that you would now do the extension with 400k in the bank.

[thedragon]

It looks to me like your are a victim of what I call "information overload", ie you gave the immigration officer far too much information, too many documents, which at first glance made him think that you were applying on the basis of money in the bank and subsequently he refused to acknowledge his error.

For an extension of stay with income as proof of financials, nothing but the embassy letter should be proffered and only if the officer asks for supporting documents confirming this income should these documents be given.

Remittances to your Thai bank account are money coming into Thailand but they are not evidence of income. It such evidence is required it will, in your case, have to be a letter from the trust fund attesting, certifying or confirming the payments being made to you.

A bank book is not required for an extension based on income. However, sometimes an immigration officer may want to see that you are actually spending some money from your account and in such case a bank book showing some money being credited and withdrawn is one way of proving it and allay his possible suspicion that you might be working illegally in Thailand.

You are now in a difficult situation because the immigration officer coerced you to sign a statement that you would now do the extension with 400k in the bank.

Thank you for your reply. My wife thought the same thing, that he probably did notice that he made a mistake but refused to acknowledge it because he didn't want to "lose face".

I forgot to mention that he also said that letters from the Embassy confirming income did "not mean anything" and that they did not prove that I would be receiving this income next month, that they only proved that I received income in the past months and that I would need 400,000 in the bank to guarantee that I would also have money next month.

I didn't show him the bank book either until he started refusing my application. I wanted him to see that I did have money in the bank, just not the full 400,000.

So it seems to me that he's not accepting embassy letters no matter what.

I have no idea why he would do that. I've never had any problems for 4 years and always presented the exact same documents. I have no idea what to do now. He basically forced me to sign a statement and refused to return me my passport until I did so. I highly doubt that is legal but I don't think that I have any chance against Immigration since they will always be right and I will always be wrong.

I just don't know what to do now, other than 90 day in and out with an O type visa. My entire life and my family is here.

[Maestro]

I don't know how many days you have left on your current permission to stay but if you need to get extra time you can apply for a 60-day extension under clause 2.24 of Police Order 777/2551

If I were in your shoes I would get the confirmation from the trust and then apply again, hoping to get a different officer to deal with me. If refused again, I would then use the second paragraph of clause 4 of the Police Order to appeal the refusal.

[Colabamumbai]

Sorry to read this.

Seems they can do what ever they feel like.

Just going through renewal myself. Every year the guy asks for more documents. Seems they get a quota like -papers must be at least 1 cm high and anyway we are Thai and they are only Farang.

Seems to me, that you are right about the money either or but unfortunately I can't give you any helpful advice.

Just wish you good luck and hope you can sort it out.

Cheers

I agree.

[ubonjoe]

I think my wife and I would of done a lot of things before leaving. I certainly would of gone even higher up the chain of command before leaving because the officers were blatantly wrong.

Perhaps a call to 1111 would of worked also.

[ingvar]

Like in most countries, sadly it is the immigration officer who has the ultimate power of approval or refusal.

I assume you live in Bangkok? Otherwise have you maybe considered trying one of the other immigration offices such as Chachoengsao (very friendly) or Pattaya (also very friendly)?

I do not know if living in Bangkok makes it necessary to go to Chaengwattana (according the rules maybe yes) but for me living in the provinces it seems I can visit just about any office I choose although according the rule I should use Prachinburi office I think.

But of course I never did the marriage extension, maybe that one can only be done at Chaengwattana?

[Jeffrey346]

I use the Embassy letter each year as it's just an easy way for me to verify income. I would take your current documentation to a different Immigration office.

I use the one in Khon Kaen without a hitch. They seem to be Farang Friendly as I have not experienced anyone having an issue there.

[ukrules]

I must purchase a high quality audio recording device for situations like this in future.

[ingvar]

Yes and transmit to Utube as it happens:)

[jacko45k]

Sorry you had such problems....

What an asx

Shocked by him holding on to your passport and extorting a signature off you.

[MILT]

Two things, It is true that the final word is up to the officer processing your request. Second is that the officer was blatantly wrong

and then the good old loss of face came into the picture. If you stand your ground with the facts often times Thais will feel that they have loss face.

[nachiket]

It looks to me like your are a victim of what I call "information overload", ie you gave the immigration officer far too much information, too many documents, which at first glance made him think that you were applying on the basis of money in the bank and subsequently he refused to acknowledge his error.

For an extension of stay with income as proof of financials, nothing but the embassy letter should be proffered and only if the officer asks for supporting documents confirming this income should these documents be given.

Remittances to your Thai bank account are money coming into Thailand but they are not evidence of income. If such evidence is required it will, in your case, have to be a letter from the trust attesting, certifying or confirming the payments being made to you.

A bank book is not required for an extension based on income. However, sometimes an immigration officer may want to see that you are actually spending some money from your own pocket and in such case a bank book showing some money being credited and withdrawn is one way of proving it and should be sufficient to allay his possible suspicion that you might be working illegally in Thailand.

You are now in a difficult situation because the immigration officer coerced you to sign a statement that you would now do the extension with 400k in the bank.

In my case, I got first extension from Samut Prakarn. For following extension, I headed straight to Laksi @ head office.

Everything was proper in my case including 400k deposit and indeed I have a 3 years old baby.

She refused my extension of stay as she said you can't avail this facility here in HEAD OFFICE as your previous extension of stay was from Samut Praka.

We don't have an authority to extend this stay and only Samut Prakarn will do it.

This was very funny as I know head office is fully authorized to do any legal formality.

She than give me very HUMBLE and NOBLE advise to pay 13k for hassle free visa and extension service from them forever provided keep inflation in mind @ 10-15% annually.

[ubonjoe]

You have to use the designated office for where you live for any extension of stay (other than tourist).

[SweatySock]

Sympathise with your situation, had a similar experience earlier this year and ended up having to obtain a 90 day visa from Vientiane then re-apply at the same office with the same paperwork to the same officer.

Second time paperwork was accepted. Why not try that route?

[meatboy]

no.one rule never argue with them although your in the right just pick all your documents up and walk out and if he refuses to give you your passport back let the embassey know what the officer has done.and get intouch with the top thai official wouldnt surprise me is that he was looking for the brown envelope.

[luckyluke]

Are you 50 or more?

If yes, with your monthly income of 80.000 ThB, you can apply for a "retirement visa"

[lopburi3]

As said the retirement extension of stay (not a visa) income requirement is 65k per month so you would be well above that requirement. But suspect the mention of trust fund indicates a younger person.

[chatette]

The officer clearly overstepped the mark by illegally refusing to return your passport. Did you note down his name?

I had a situation many years ago with a government official who threatened to cancel my work permit unless I did something that she demanded and which I had no intention of doing as it was simply abuse of power and wasn't required.

In the event, I emailed the director-general of the labor ministry and noted the official's actions threatened my status in Thailand. My situation was quickly resolved in accordance with regulations and the officer was moved from her position.

I subsequently never encountered any other malevolent officials when renewing my WP.

It's not the same department but I would suggest you cite your experience to the head of the immigration bureau and go even higher if that doesn't work. Your wife can help identify the individuals and their contacts from this directory: http://gphone.prd.go.th/.

You have absolutely nothing to lose as you're compliant.

Edited October 31, 2013 by chatette

[Tywais]

I think my wife and I would of done a lot of things before leaving. I certainly would of gone even higher up the chain of command before leaving because the officers were blatantly wrong.

Perhaps a call to 1111 would of worked also.

Also believe should try 1111 as I've read members having gone that route with success.

[mca]

OP you have my sympathies. When I had to use the Nong Khai office after moving back to Issan tried to extend using my wife's salary which at the time was perfectly legitimate. The officer initially refused saying that it couldn't be done. We had to forcefully but politely insist on talking to the guy in charge who told the officer it was OK. I wasn't that concerned with saving the guys face. I'm willing to jump through a few hoops at immi, sometimes it's the nature of the beast, but not to the point of being a mug.

[lopburi3]

Name calling post removed.

[gerrythepoet]

The officer clearly overstepped the mark by illegally refusing to return your passport. Did you note down his name?

I had a situation many years ago with a government official who threatened to cancel my work permit unless I did something that she demanded and which I had no intention of doing as it was simply abuse of power and wasn't required.

In the event, I emailed the director-general of the labor ministry and noted the official's actions threatened my status in Thailand. My situation was quickly resolved in accordance with regulations and the officer was moved from her position.

I subsequently never encountered any other malevolent officials when renewing my WP.

It's not the same department but I would suggest you cite your experience to the head of the immigration bureau and go even higher if that doesn't work. Your wife can help identify the individuals and their contacts from this directory: http://gphone.prd.go.th/.

You have absolutely nothing to lose as you're compliant.

Very useful link. Thanks

[JLCrab]

Are you 50 or more?

If yes, with your monthly income of 80.000 ThB, you can apply for a "retirement visa"

Similarly to Kuhn Maestro's 'information overload' Post #4, volunteering an income of approximately 80K baht per month when the requirement for extension based on marriage only requires "an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month" per P.O. 777/2551 2.18 may have somehow ruffled the IMM officer into his out-of-the-norm conduct.

[expat888]

About a year ago they a turnover in immigration workers because of corruption. Maybe it's time for that again.

[transam]

My old chum went for his annual extension at Phibun, which he has done several times, all the correct paperwork. The guy this time asked for his divorce certificate from his last marriage , he said , why, I could not have got married again without one could I. He had to drive home and try and find it then return the next day.

[rakman]

Slip the officer a little tea money or a bottle of his favorite drink.

[expat888]

I think my wife and I would of done a lot of things before leaving. I certainly would of gone even higher up the chain of command before leaving because the officers were blatantly wrong.

Perhaps a call to 1111 would of worked also.

Also believe should try 1111 as I've read members having gone that route with success.

I'm assuming the 1111 is the "call center". My wife has used the call center in several occations and gotten results each time. Not sure about the number she used.