US court sentences 13-year-old boy to 7 years for killing neo-Nazi father

[webfact]

US boy, 13, sentenced for killing neo-Nazi father

LOS ANGELES: -- A 13-year-old boy was sentenced Thursday to seven years' incarceration for shooting dead his father, a US news report said.

The boy was 10 when he took a gun belonging to his father, a local neo-Nazi leader, and shot him while he slept, the Los Angeles Times reported.

Prosecutors said he was a risk to public safety, and had shown violent tendencies before and after the incident.

The California court, which tried him as a juvenile, convicted him of second-degree murder and sentenced him to seven years in a juvenile correction facility.

He could be released earlier with good behaviour, or held at the discretion of the state for up to three years beyond the sentence.

The defence had argued that the defendant was regularly beaten by his father Jeffrey Hall, the West Coast leader of extreme-rightwing group National Socialist Movement.

His lawyers said the boy, who was described as suffering from emotional and speech difficulties, probably thought he was protecting himself and his mother against Hall, who had threatened to leave them and burn down the house with them inside.

Source: http://voiceofrussia.com/news/2013_11_01/American-boy-13-sentenced-for-killing-neo-Nazi-father-1788/

-- THE VOICE OF RUSSIA 2013-11-01

[HeijoshinCool]

Great sentence. Justice well done.

No doubt at all he'll turn out to be a great, productive citizen, after seven years in one of LA's juvie facilities, which are well known for overcrowding, understaffing, lack of mental health care, random handcuffing and extreme use of pepper spray on kids, including the suicidal and the pregnant. Oh, I forgot the rapes.

Yep, after ten years of abuse by a crap father, seven more years of terror and abuse will fix him.

[Jingthing]

I think it sounds like a fair sentence. He did kill. He is a behavioral problem. But putting him away behind juvenile age would have been unjust. I might feel differently if I had been on the jury.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Jingthing

[hanno]

The 500 THB fines in Thailand are a joke, but so is this! Sending a kid to the slammer in the largest "democracy" in the world is just mind-boggling.

[Jingthing]

The 500 THB fines in Thailand are a joke, but so is this! Sending a kid to the slammer in the largest "democracy" in the world is just mind-boggling.

You have no idea. There are many U.S. children with LIFE in prison with no chance of parole typically for murdering parents. Now, THAT is very unjust especially when there was abuse. This is a moderate punishment for this crime even if there was no chance of being a normal kid with a father like that. Yes he was messed up by Daddy, but he's still messed up.

[gl555]

Juvenile correction facility. It's a fair sentence.

The 500 THB fines in Thailand are a joke, but so is this! Sending a kid to the slammer in the largest "democracy" in the world is just mind-boggling.

[hanno]

Fair sentence? The kid was 10 years old when he committed the crime, for Pete's sake.

[soi41]

The measure of a civilization is how it treats its weakest members!!

[NeverSure]

From article:

"Joseph was repeatedly expelled from his school after violent outbursts, including strangling a teacher with a phone cord. He also attacked female teachers and fought with other students during his two years at Riverside Juvenile Hall."

"During his two years at Riverside Juvenile Hall."

So they had already put him in Juvenile detention for two years and he was a disaster. This is a ruined kid who will never be OK. I predict that when he gets out of the slammer he will do something worse and in the end spend most of his life in prison.

He is not safe to put back into another Juvenile facility. He is already gone, and a danger to everyone.

[Credo]

The sentence is quite fair. The juvenile facilities may not do a good job of rehabilitation, but then they are starting out with some very damaged goods. This kid isn't somebody that should be in the community at large. Would you like to have one of your children be in his classroom?

[Scott]

Many years ago, I worked in a juvenile facility. We had a 12 year old who had killed both his mother and father.

This kid is pretty damaged and needs to be kept in a reasonably secure environment. Many of these facilities have a fair amount of latitude in treatment options and housing.

[HeijoshinCool]

Many years ago, I worked in a juvenile facility. We had a 12 year old who had killed both his mother and father.

This kid is pretty damaged and needs to be kept in a reasonably secure environment. Many of these facilities have a fair amount of latitude in treatment options and housing.

I have been in every juvenile hall, and every juvenile detention facility in Los Angeles county. Many times. None, not one, offers any real treatment. They are all overcrowded, and understaffed. The U.S. Justice Department, special prosecutors, and state courts, have repeatedly investigated, and found substantial civil and criminal violations. Both guards and probation officers have been convicted of battery and rape.

If you think adult, max-security prisons are scary, multiply that a thousand times for a juvie facility, because kids just have no idea what they're in for.

These facilities are anachronistic, from a time when they could offer rehabilitation to the "Little Rascals," or the "Dead End Kids." That was decades ago. Now they're hell.

People say it's too expensive to revamp the way kids are handled when they are convicted of felonies. It's going to be much more expensive not to. Because when this one gets out, he will kill again. He'll cost a lot more, over the next 70 years.

[HeijoshinCool]

The sentence is quite fair. The juvenile facilities may not do a good job of rehabilitation, but then they are starting out with some very damaged goods. This kid isn't somebody that should be in the community at large. Would you like to have one of your children be in his classroom?

But he will be, in just a few, short, personality-forming years.

[Scott]

Off-topic, inflammatory posts deleted.

A post violating fair use has also been deleted.

[Credo]

The sentence is quite fair. The juvenile facilities may not do a good job of rehabilitation, but then they are starting out with some very damaged goods. This kid isn't somebody that should be in the community at large. Would you like to have one of your children be in his classroom?

But he will be, in just a few, short, personality-forming years.

So which did you want him to have, a life-sentence or the death sentence?

[Credo]

Many years ago, I worked in a juvenile facility. We had a 12 year old who had killed both his mother and father.

This kid is pretty damaged and needs to be kept in a reasonably secure environment. Many of these facilities have a fair amount of latitude in treatment options and housing.

I have been in every juvenile hall, and every juvenile detention facility in Los Angeles county. Many times. None, not one, offers any real treatment. They are all overcrowded, and understaffed. The U.S. Justice Department, special prosecutors, and state courts, have repeatedly investigated, and found substantial civil and criminal violations. Both guards and probation officers have been convicted of battery and rape.

If you think adult, max-security prisons are scary, multiply that a thousand times for a juvie facility, because kids just have no idea what they're in for.

These facilities are anachronistic, from a time when they could offer rehabilitation to the "Little Rascals," or the "Dead End Kids." That was decades ago. Now they're hell.

People say it's too expensive to revamp the way kids are handled when they are convicted of felonies. It's going to be much more expensive not to. Because when this one gets out, he will kill again. He'll cost a lot more, over the next 70 years.

Were you incarcerated in all of them?

[HeijoshinCool]

The sentence is quite fair. The juvenile facilities may not do a good job of rehabilitation, but then they are starting out with some very damaged goods. This kid isn't somebody that should be in the community at large. Would you like to have one of your children be in his classroom?

But he will be, in just a few, short, personality-forming years.

So which did you want him to have, a life-sentence or the death sentence?

Neither. I'd like to see my country stop wasting trillions of dollars, domestic and foreign, and revamp anachronistic rehabilitation facilities.

This kid will need a miracle, not to kill within thirty days of being released. He'll be bigger, stronger, further indoctrinated into criminal behavior, and will have access to weapons. He'll also be pissed off at the State. And everybody else.

Last stats I heard, is the average juvie facility in LA now has 800 violent attacks per year.

As with others like him, he needs serious treatment. Not the twenty minutes, once a week, with a psychologist he will get.

But, without a doubt, this will never happen. Because my government has other priorities than stopping crime. Indeed, crime, at the expense of ordinary citizens like you and me, moves the economy. The feds and locals know this. They make money off it.

[HeijoshinCool]

Many years ago, I worked in a juvenile facility. We had a 12 year old who had killed both his mother and father.

This kid is pretty damaged and needs to be kept in a reasonably secure environment. Many of these facilities have a fair amount of latitude in treatment options and housing.

I have been in every juvenile hall, and every juvenile detention facility in Los Angeles county. Many times. None, not one, offers any real treatment. They are all overcrowded, and understaffed. The U.S. Justice Department, special prosecutors, and state courts, have repeatedly investigated, and found substantial civil and criminal violations. Both guards and probation officers have been convicted of battery and rape.

If you think adult, max-security prisons are scary, multiply that a thousand times for a juvie facility, because kids just have no idea what they're in for.

These facilities are anachronistic, from a time when they could offer rehabilitation to the "Little Rascals," or the "Dead End Kids." That was decades ago. Now they're hell.

People say it's too expensive to revamp the way kids are handled when they are convicted of felonies. It's going to be much more expensive not to. Because when this one gets out, he will kill again. He'll cost a lot more, over the next 70 years.

Were you incarcerated in all of them?

No. I delivered kids to them, or picked them up, or went there when working their cases.

[hanno]

Thank God some sanity prevails. Nothing good will come out of incarcerating the kid; he will come out fully equipped for a career as a hardened criminal. The US has the highest prison populatio per 100,000 of population in the world; if imprisoning worked, the US should be without crime.

[Scott]

I also worked in juvenile facilities and did evaluations of them in a number of countries.

Some of these youngsters can't be rehabilitated because they have never been habilitated. There isn't a lot to work with. Very difficult to know how this youngster will turn out.

He's really not suitable for foster care, so he will need a more secure setting.

The juvenile system has the ability to move them into more or less restrictive environments more easily than an adult offender.

[kblaze]

My last two years in high school I was on the juvenile justice commission for our county. Part of our duties were to inspect the juvenile halls to make sure things were as they were supposed to be. Easily the best part was going through the cafeteria process as we got to eat and chat with the kids being held there.

Most of them were small time trouble-makers, but they always had a small contingent of teens who had done serious crimes, like armed robbery and murder, who were waiting to be transferred to CYA (california youth authority), which I guess you could say is the prison for kids. The food was decent, but i always wondered if they knew when we were coming and brought out the good stuff for us.

This is a tough case, no doubt, evidenced by the fact we are talking about it in Thailand. Not an easy decision either way, but the facts say the kid is hardened and dangerous. Rehab would be great, but security of the community comes first.

Im assuming he will be sent to CYA rather than juvenile hall, but the article is unclear in that regard..

[Scott]

Years ago, the CYA had the ability to move offenders into places like foster care, group homes, residential treatment facilities or locked facilities. In a number of states the Youth Authorities were created to make it easier for those supervising the cases to make decisions about the care of young offenders based on what is in their best interest rather than constantly going back into court.

High profile cases such as this one, will no doubt see him in a fairly restrictive environment. It does sound like he has multiple problems and thus may not have a good prognosis, but it's hard to tell.

I dealt with a 12 year old who killed both his parents with a shotgun. It's a long complicated story, but he was released from court supervision and never did get into legal trouble either in his teens or as an adult -- at least as of several years ago.

Young people can be extremely impulsive.

[Baloo22]

The 500 THB fines in Thailand are a joke, but so is this! Sending a kid to the slammer in the largest "democracy" in the world is just mind-boggling.

No, it is your comment that is mind-boggling nonsense!

First; You say " Sending a kid to the slammer..." like he is being sent to SuperMax at Pelican Bay State Prison. He is not. He is being sent to a Juvenile correctional facility and the judge mandated a parole hearing after seven years.

Second; Were you present in the courtroom to hear all the evidence presented?? Judge Jean P. Leonard was in the courtroom and did hear all the evidence presented and all the arguments from both the People and Defense Counsel. She was obviously far better informed on this issue than you.

[Credo]

There kid also committed his crime against what appears to be a rather abusive and potentially dangerous father.

[Zumteufel]

I think it sounds like a fair sentence. He did kill. He is a behavioral problem. But putting him away behind juvenile age would have been unjust. I might feel differently if I had been on the jury.

Yeah well. Shit in, shit out. How do you expect something to learn proper behavior with a father like that? As said before, a sentence will not teach anything but confirming his previous patterns.

[HeijoshinCool]

The 500 THB fines in Thailand are a joke, but so is this! Sending a kid to the slammer in the largest "democracy" in the world is just mind-boggling.

No, it is your comment that is mind-boggling nonsense!

First; You say " Sending a kid to the slammer..." like he is being sent to SuperMax at Pelican Bay State Prison. He is not. He is being sent to a Juvenile correctional facility and the judge mandated a parole hearing after seven years.

Second; Were you present in the courtroom to hear all the evidence presented?? Judge Jean P. Leonard was in the courtroom and did hear all the evidence presented and all the arguments from both the People and Defense Counsel. She was obviously far better informed on this issue than you.

Each and every one of the half dozen facilities in LA County has been investigated at all levels.

About the time I retired,the US Justice Department came in. They found day rooms turned into sleeping rooms (severe overcrowding); pepper-spraying of pregnant, suicidal, and/or handcuffed, and/or fully restrained asthmatic children; numerous cases of excessive force; in short, numerous violations of constitutional and statutory rights. A federal consent decree was entered, and though mental health treatment has improved since then, these places are still hell holes.

Pelican Bay (I've been there, too) is no worse. These are kids, not hardened cons, despite the nature of any crimes they may have committed, they are children.

As for your comment about the judge, I've stood before good ones, great ones, and idiots. But even the smart ones have their hands tied by a bad, bad system.

The key word here is "children."

A.

[Credo]

Heijoshincool, you've got a lot of negative commentary about the Juvenile justice system, but I haven't seen anything that would suggest what you think should be done with this kid.

[ronrat]

Good thing is the Nazi is brown bread.

[Andre0720]

It is to wonder where I got that behaviour inclination from???

It is said that 10% of people inherit bad genes.

Now combine that with inheriting the father he got...

All are born equal are they?????

[Jack Mountain]

The boy needs help not punishment!!!