Blanket amnesty opposed by most in Bangkok: Poll

[Lite Beer]

POLITICS
Blanket amnesty opposed by most in Bangkok: Poll
The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- Most people in Bangkok and the surrounding provinces have voiced their opposition to a law that would give blanket amnesty to those committed serious legal offences during the political conflict in the last decade.

The House of Representatives passed the controversial amnesty bill early on Friday, following a walkout by MPs from the opposition Democrat Party. The Lower House voted 310:0 to approve the bill, which is expected to be deliberated on by the Senate later this week or next.

Most of those surveyed by Suan Dusit Rajabhat University said they disagreed with the blanket amnesty, according to the results of its public opinion poll released yesterday.

According to findings of the latest Suan Dusit Poll, a total of 57.6 per cent of respondents said that there should not be any amnesty related to political events of the last decade.

Another 19.8 per cent wanted an amnesty only for protesters, but not covering protest leaders and those who ordered the violent crackdown on protesters in 2010. However, 11.3 per cent of those surveyed said that amnesty should be given to all sides without any conditions.

Another 6.8 per cent supported amnesty for protesters and state officials who were performing their duties, as ordered by their commanders. And 4.52 per cent wanted amnesty for all, except for those involved in financial matters, such as returning assets to ousted former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra.

The survey was conducted on 1,134 people in Bangkok and surrounding provinces between October 29 and 31.

Many of the respondents also voiced support for the decision by some senior figures in the opposition Democrat Party to resign as party executives, so that they could campaign against the legislation.

Discussing what the governing Pheu Thai Party should do about the amnesty bill, 41.9 per cent of respondents said it should proceed with the legislation, but with transparency, justice and impartiality, while 22.6 per cent said Pheu Thai should discuss it with all parties concerned.

A total of 19.3 per cent said the party should listen to opinions from all sides to find a suitable solution and 16.1 per cent said it should assess the situation.

-- The Nation 2013-11-03

[MAJIC]

Here we go then, the ultimate: "Pick and Match" Amnesty.

Edited November 2, 2013 by MAJIC

[worgeordie]

It does not mean anything what people think or say,

the Government rammed it through Parliament,all

for the sake of the big boss,who should be home

by Christmas!,then the fun will start.

regards Worgeordie

[ezzra]

It has been proven time and time again, that crime dose pay here in Thailand, and that

given enough time and money, all sins can be and will be whitewash, and so the merry

go around of head of states, MP's and senators, army and police generals continue

to challenge the rule of law, make billions in the process and in most cases, get away

with it,

[dominique355]

An amnesty basically is an admission by the government that the ordinary judicial ways and procedures have failed, that the government and it's institution are unwilling and unable to fulfill their fundamental task to bring criminals to justice.

There would be no need for any amnesty if an objective investigation could uncover the truth and bring the culprits to an unbiased court. But that would need a competent and not corrupt police, attorney general and court. We all know what to think of the police and the AG *) here. So can we hope the court will be able to address the situation? I don't know, but without a proper investigation the courts are handicapped from the very beginning. So it's enough for the government to control the police and the AG, then justice is not possible.

And that is why there is an amnesty, because the government does not want justice.

I think nobody in his right mind wants to pardon a real criminal. Nobody wants to pardon the "men in black" who shoot innocent people, or those who fire RPG at the BTS station, invade hospitals, set fire to buildings with people inside, call for all people to bring bottles of gasoline and burn down the city, order the killing of drug suspects, shooting at demonstrators in the street or in a mosque, etc. So why is the government so keen on giving them an amnesty?

Because on of these criminals happens to be their head master. That's why and that's the only reason.

*) Have you noticed that the Office of the Attorney General got a big raise in salary after indicting Abhisit and Suthep?

Edited November 3, 2013 by dominique355

[chainarong]

As I have mentioned before, this Amnesty has been created for that criminal living in Dubai, the air headed PTP have not taken into account that their fine upstanding leader might have a few enemy's in the country of Thailand , they are so busy running around pontificating the good of Thaskin that reality has completely left them behind, Bang Bang, worrying times ahead for Thailand and the PTP are the instigators of it all , heaven forbid.

[klauskunkel]

An amnesty basically is an admission by the government that the ordinary judicial ways and procedures have failed, that the government and it's institution are unwilling and unable to fulfill their fundamental task to bring criminals to justice.

There would be no need for any amnesty if an objective investigation could uncover the truth and bring the culprits to an unbiased court. But that would need a competent and not corrupt police, attorney general and court. We all know what to think of the police and the AG *) here. So can we hope the court will be able to address the situation? I don't know, but without a proper investigation the courts are handicapped from the very beginning. So it's enough for the government to control the police and the AG, then justice is not possible.

And that is why there is an amnesty, because the government does not want justice.

I think nobody in his right mind wants to pardon a real criminal. Nobody wants to pardon the "men in black" who shoot innocent people, or those who fire RPG at the BTS station, invade hospitals, set fire to buildings with people inside, call for all people to bring bottles of gasoline and burn down the city, order the killing of drug suspects, shooting at demonstrators in the street or in a mosque, etc. So why is the government so keen on giving them an amnesty?

Because on of these criminals happens to be their head master. That's why and that's the only reason.

*) Have you noticed that the Office of the Attorney General got a big raise in salary after indicting Abhisit and Suthep?

I agree, it also brings valuable talent back to the job market...

[Docno]

Since when did Bangkok represent the whole country? [Though I'm sure a lot of the Thais living there would like to think it does]. What a lazy attempt at a 'survey' ... classic convenience sample. Maybe they should just run future national elections in Bangkok 'and surrounding provinces'....

[indyuk]

To a point I agree. It'd be great if the DSI take the Governor of Bangkok out of Candy Pot.

[h90]

Since when did Bangkok represent the whole country? [Though I'm sure a lot of the Thais living there would like to think it does]. What a lazy attempt at a 'survey' ... classic convenience sample. Maybe they should just run future national elections in Bangkok 'and surrounding provinces'....

Most Polls are either total unprofessional or the result is decided before they do the poll.

So it doesn't matter much where they hold it, anyway.

[Robby nz]

Also :

Amnesty bill to benefit Thaksin: Poll

BANGKOK: -- The majority of Thais, 87.2 per cent, believed that the government's amnesty bill will benefit former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, according to the ABAC Poll.

Released Sunday, the poll conducted by Assumption University showed that the majority of Thais are not convinced that the bill is meant to induce reconciliation.

A finding is 89.4 per cent of the 1,198 respondents viewed that political tensions are more severe than in the same period last year. 80.3 per cent was disappointed with the government’s reaction to the current situation, saying that its action is to benefit politicians rather than the general public

-- The Nation 2013-11-03

Seems the previous posters represent the 12.8% who think otherwise.

[Robby nz]

Latest opposition would appear to be from those who are experts on Thai law.

As in; they are the ones who teach it to students.

TU lecturers lash out at bill

BANGKOK: -- The lecturers of Thammasat University's Faculty of Law issued Sunday a statement against the government's amnesty bill.

The law is unconstitutional, they said. The legal process is not transparent and rushed, though a law like this demands extensive public comments.

They added that the statement is issued on realisation that the law violates basic human rights and would damage the Thai legal and judicial systems.

-- The Nation 2013-11-03

[whybother]

Since when did Bangkok represent the whole country? [Though I'm sure a lot of the Thais living there would like to think it does]. What a lazy attempt at a 'survey' ... classic convenience sample. Maybe they should just run future national elections in Bangkok 'and surrounding provinces'....

Did the OP say it did?

[whybother]

To a point I agree. It'd be great if the DSI take the Governor of Bangkok out of Candy Pot.

Which point mentions the governor?

[Docno]

Since when did Bangkok represent the whole country? [Though I'm sure a lot of the Thais living there would like to think it does]. What a lazy attempt at a 'survey' ... classic convenience sample. Maybe they should just run future national elections in Bangkok 'and surrounding provinces'....

Did the OP say it did?

No, but it begs the question: why do it? (Or why spend the money and time doing it?). Followed by: why report the outcome if it's ultimately meaningless?

[whybother]

Since when did Bangkok represent the whole country? [Though I'm sure a lot of the Thais living there would like to think it does]. What a lazy attempt at a 'survey' ... classic convenience sample. Maybe they should just run future national elections in Bangkok 'and surrounding provinces'....

Did the OP say it did?

No, but it begs the question: why do it? (Or why spend the money and time doing it?). Followed by: why report the outcome if it's ultimately meaningless?

It's what they do. They poll people in Bangkok.

It isn't meaningless. It shows what the Bangkok people think. It's meaningless if you want to know what the whole country thinks, but that isn't what it is trying to convey.

Would it be meaningless if they just polled the North East? No. It would tell you what the people in the North East thought.

[Docno]

Since when did Bangkok represent the whole country? [Though I'm sure a lot of the Thais living there would like to think it does]. What a lazy attempt at a 'survey' ... classic convenience sample. Maybe they should just run future national elections in Bangkok 'and surrounding provinces'....

Did the OP say it did?

No, but it begs the question: why do it? (Or why spend the money and time doing it?). Followed by: why report the outcome if it's ultimately meaningless?

It's what they do. They poll people in Bangkok.

It isn't meaningless. It shows what the Bangkok people think. It's meaningless if you want to know what the whole country thinks, but that isn't what it is trying to convey.

Would it be meaningless if they just polled the North East? No. It would tell you what the people in the North East thought.

Depends on the nature of the issue. What would be the point, for example, of Time Magazine polling the residents of Washington DC on their attitudes toward Obamacare unless they wanted to make a specific point about the impact of Obamacare on those people. The OP hasn't stated any specific purpose for polling only residents of Bangkok and nearby areas, the issue is one of national import and impact, and we can be pretty sure that the numbers would be different elsewhere in the country....

[whybother]

Depends on the nature of the issue. What would be the point, for example, of Time Magazine polling the residents of Washington DC on their attitudes toward Obamacare unless they wanted to make a specific point about the impact of Obamacare on those people. The OP hasn't stated any specific purpose for polling only residents of Bangkok and nearby areas, the issue is one of national import and impact, and we can be pretty sure that the numbers would be different elsewhere in the country....

This particular company regularly does Bangkok polls on whatever the topic of the day might be. A lot of pollsters report on regional or local results of polls of national interest. Some people are interested in those details. They don't purport to be relevant from a national perspective, but they are of interest anyway.

[473geo]

Will the current amnesty benefit Thaksin? should read 100% agreement so don't know what happened to the poll there

However what must be taken into account is the fact Thaksin received a Jail term, seen by many as a cynical attempt to remove a popular politician from the political scene, a ban on a 100+ party members for 5 years appeared further effort to reduce the political stability and viability of a particular group, a group and party that had garnered a great deal of support

The political issues arose when the group reformed, headed by Thaksin refused to lie down and allow the country to revert to the previous political system of appointees effectively running the country. Accompanied by the 'awakening' of rural awareness this group has out paced, out thought, out publicised, and fully out manouvered those that sought to nullify its very existence, to the extent the group is now legally elected and in government.

In the current climate the 'real' alternatives that could be employed/implemented by those who wish to continue to share in the political environment 'powerbase' are now extremely limited. Allow a return, or rely on the Democrats winning the next election, the problem is one may have to happen to facilitate the other!....and that is a bit of a gamble.

For those that would arrive and attempt justify the charges against Thaksin, and the banned MPs, you will garner no response from me, as these points have been discussed on the forum ad nauseum and are not the core reason for my post. The point being what are the choices for Thailand moving forward, given PTP may well manage to get elected for a second term, is it not time the whole Thaksin drama was played out?

[rubl]

Will the current amnesty benefit Thaksin? should read 100% agreement so don't know what happened to the poll there

However what must be taken into account is the fact Thaksin received a Jail term, seen by many as a cynical attempt to remove a popular politician from the political scene, a ban on a 100+ party members for 5 years appeared further effort to reduce the political stability and viability of a particular group, a group and party that had garnered a great deal of support

The political issues arose when the group reformed, headed by Thaksin refused to lie down and allow the country to revert to the previous political system of appointees effectively running the country. Accompanied by the 'awakening' of rural awareness this group has out paced, out thought, out publicised, and fully out manouvered those that sought to nullify its very existence, to the extent the group is now legally elected and in government.

In the current climate the 'real' alternatives that could be employed/implemented by those who wish to continue to share in the political environment 'powerbase' are now extremely limited. Allow a return, or rely on the Democrats winning the next election, the problem is one may have to happen to facilitate the other!....and that is a bit of a gamble.

For those that would arrive and attempt justify the charges against Thaksin, and the banned MPs, you will garner no response from me, as these points have been discussed on the forum ad nauseum and are not the core reason for my post. The point being what are the choices for Thailand moving forward, given PTP may well manage to get elected for a second term, is it not time the whole Thaksin drama was played out?

" you will garner no response from me,"

You mean you just state an opinion and will be deaf to anyone who tries to let you see the errors of your way?

As for choices to move forward, the protests by people from a broad spectre seem to indicate that a 'blanket amnesty' is not the way to go, even if it seems to have somewhat united Thai against the government of Thaksin's Pheu Thai.

BTW with all rice farmers rich and loads of new benzes having been sold, may I assume your family also got one now?

Edited November 3, 2013 by rubl

[Bpuumike]

It does not mean anything what people think or say,

the Government rammed it through Parliament,all

for the sake of the big boss,who should be home

by Christmas!,then the fun will start.

regards Worgeordie

I'm sure he knows he would be dead within days.

[473geo]

Will the current amnesty benefit Thaksin? should read 100% agreement so don't know what happened to the poll there

However what must be taken into account is the fact Thaksin received a Jail term, seen by many as a cynical attempt to remove a popular politician from the political scene, a ban on a 100+ party members for 5 years appeared further effort to reduce the political stability and viability of a particular group, a group and party that had garnered a great deal of support

The political issues arose when the group reformed, headed by Thaksin refused to lie down and allow the country to revert to the previous political system of appointees effectively running the country. Accompanied by the 'awakening' of rural awareness this group has out paced, out thought, out publicised, and fully out manouvered those that sought to nullify its very existence, to the extent the group is now legally elected and in government.

In the current climate the 'real' alternatives that could be employed/implemented by those who wish to continue to share in the political environment 'powerbase' are now extremely limited. Allow a return, or rely on the Democrats winning the next election, the problem is one may have to happen to facilitate the other!....and that is a bit of a gamble.

For those that would arrive and attempt justify the charges against Thaksin, and the banned MPs, you will garner no response from me, as these points have been discussed on the forum ad nauseum and are not the core reason for my post. The point being what are the choices for Thailand moving forward, given PTP may well manage to get elected for a second term, is it not time the whole Thaksin drama was played out?

" you will garner no response from me,"

You mean you just state an opinion and will be deaf to anyone who tries to let you see the errors of your way?

As for choices to move forward, the protests by people from a broad spectre seem to indicate that a 'blanket amnesty' is not the way to go, even if it seems to have somewhat united Thai against the government of Thaksin's Pheu Thai.

BTW with all rice farmers rich and loads of new benzes having been sold, may I assume your family also got one now?

In answer to your relevant comment Rubl

"As for choices to move forward, the protests by people from a broad spectre seem to indicate that a 'blanket amnesty' is not the way to go, even if it seems to have somewhat united Thai against the government of Thaksin's Pheu Thai."

Possible the united approach falls away along with the Amnesty bill, Thailand is looking at another 4 years for PTP, I wouldn't bet on the Democrats finding a suitable amount of support. So I guess this is your best suggestion that the 'pain' continues in the forseeable future with Thaksin leading from the rear in Dubai. My thought is that a return via amnesty might just tip the balance in favour of the Democrats and unite the opposition. Remember the self appointed amnesty by the coupmakers did not appear to endear the party they supported to a large portion of the electorate. But of course there is also the crucial question, can the Democrats recover if it goes the other way?

[rubl]

Will the current amnesty benefit Thaksin? should read 100% agreement so don't know what happened to the poll there

However what must be taken into account is the fact Thaksin received a Jail term, seen by many as a cynical attempt to remove a popular politician from the political scene, a ban on a 100+ party members for 5 years appeared further effort to reduce the political stability and viability of a particular group, a group and party that had garnered a great deal of support

The political issues arose when the group reformed, headed by Thaksin refused to lie down and allow the country to revert to the previous political system of appointees effectively running the country. Accompanied by the 'awakening' of rural awareness this group has out paced, out thought, out publicised, and fully out manouvered those that sought to nullify its very existence, to the extent the group is now legally elected and in government.

In the current climate the 'real' alternatives that could be employed/implemented by those who wish to continue to share in the political environment 'powerbase' are now extremely limited. Allow a return, or rely on the Democrats winning the next election, the problem is one may have to happen to facilitate the other!....and that is a bit of a gamble.

For those that would arrive and attempt justify the charges against Thaksin, and the banned MPs, you will garner no response from me, as these points have been discussed on the forum ad nauseum and are not the core reason for my post. The point being what are the choices for Thailand moving forward, given PTP may well manage to get elected for a second term, is it not time the whole Thaksin drama was played out?

" you will garner no response from me,"

You mean you just state an opinion and will be deaf to anyone who tries to let you see the errors of your way?

As for choices to move forward, the protests by people from a broad spectre seem to indicate that a 'blanket amnesty' is not the way to go, even if it seems to have somewhat united Thai against the government of Thaksin's Pheu Thai.

BTW with all rice farmers rich and loads of new benzes having been sold, may I assume your family also got one now?

In answer to your relevant comment Rubl

"As for choices to move forward, the protests by people from a broad spectre seem to indicate that a 'blanket amnesty' is not the way to go, even if it seems to have somewhat united Thai against the government of Thaksin's Pheu Thai."

Possible the united approach falls away along with the Amnesty bill, Thailand is looking at another 4 years for PTP, I wouldn't bet on the Democrats finding a suitable amount of support. So I guess this is your best suggestion that the 'pain' continues in the forseeable future with Thaksin leading from the rear in Dubai. My thought is that a return via amnesty might just tip the balance in favour of the Democrats and unite the opposition. Remember the self appointed amnesty by the coupmakers did not appear to endear the party they supported to a large portion of the electorate. But of course there is also the crucial question, can the Democrats recover if it goes the other way?

If I was jayboy I would probably say your post is rambling. Me being your friendly Dutch uncle I will only comment that the zigzag nature of your post makes it difficult to comment unless I really dissect sentences piece by piece.

BTW another four years of Pheu Thai? Well, let PM Yingluck first finished this term, she's only halfway you now.

Edited November 3, 2013 by rubl

[473geo]

Will the current amnesty benefit Thaksin? should read 100% agreement so don't know what happened to the poll there

However what must be taken into account is the fact Thaksin received a Jail term, seen by many as a cynical attempt to remove a popular politician from the political scene, a ban on a 100+ party members for 5 years appeared further effort to reduce the political stability and viability of a particular group, a group and party that had garnered a great deal of support

The political issues arose when the group reformed, headed by Thaksin refused to lie down and allow the country to revert to the previous political system of appointees effectively running the country. Accompanied by the 'awakening' of rural awareness this group has out paced, out thought, out publicised, and fully out manouvered those that sought to nullify its very existence, to the extent the group is now legally elected and in government.

In the current climate the 'real' alternatives that could be employed/implemented by those who wish to continue to share in the political environment 'powerbase' are now extremely limited. Allow a return, or rely on the Democrats winning the next election, the problem is one may have to happen to facilitate the other!....and that is a bit of a gamble.

For those that would arrive and attempt justify the charges against Thaksin, and the banned MPs, you will garner no response from me, as these points have been discussed on the forum ad nauseum and are not the core reason for my post. The point being what are the choices for Thailand moving forward, given PTP may well manage to get elected for a second term, is it not time the whole Thaksin drama was played out?

" you will garner no response from me,"

You mean you just state an opinion and will be deaf to anyone who tries to let you see the errors of your way?

As for choices to move forward, the protests by people from a broad spectre seem to indicate that a 'blanket amnesty' is not the way to go, even if it seems to have somewhat united Thai against the government of Thaksin's Pheu Thai.

BTW with all rice farmers rich and loads of new benzes having been sold, may I assume your family also got one now?

In answer to your relevant comment Rubl

"As for choices to move forward, the protests by people from a broad spectre seem to indicate that a 'blanket amnesty' is not the way to go, even if it seems to have somewhat united Thai against the government of Thaksin's Pheu Thai."

Possible the united approach falls away along with the Amnesty bill, Thailand is looking at another 4 years for PTP, I wouldn't bet on the Democrats finding a suitable amount of support. So I guess this is your best suggestion that the 'pain' continues in the forseeable future with Thaksin leading from the rear in Dubai. My thought is that a return via amnesty might just tip the balance in favour of the Democrats and unite the opposition. Remember the self appointed amnesty by the coupmakers did not appear to endear the party they supported to a large portion of the electorate. But of course there is also the crucial question, can the Democrats recover if it goes the other way?

If I was jayboy I would probably say your post is rambling. Me being your friendly Dutch uncle I will only comment that the zigzag nature of your post makes it difficult to comment unless I really dissect sentences piece by piece.

BTW another four years of Pheu Thai? Well, let PM Yingluck first finished this term, she's only halfway you now.

Rambling, can take one into areas not frequently visited by others, off the beaten track so to speak

Nice compliment, even if you think Jayboy would have phrased it this way, and not yourself

Your solution is PTP failing to get elected? wasn't this the Democrats vision prior to the last election?