China asked to design Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima high-speed train route

[webfact]

China asked to design Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima high-speed train route

BANGKOK, 5 November 2013 (NNT) – Chinese representatives visiting Thailand to further collaborations in high-speed train construction and trade in rice and other agricultural produce have expressed confidence that all agreed collaborations will be realized as planned.

Chinese representatives met with Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra on Monday to discuss the Chinese involvement in Thailand's high-speed train system and Thai-Chinese agreements on rice trade and trade in other farm produce. The topics had been earlier discussed in October.

Prime Minister Yingluck thanked the Chinese government for the attention it gives to the collaborations. She also revealed that Thailand has asked China to plan and design the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima high-speed train route. A credible institution will evaluate the cost of the construction; half of which could be paid for by Thai farm produce.


-- NNT 2013-11-05

[bigbamboo]

I'm sure the Chinese will be delighted to get involved in a route from Bangkok to Korat. It will be the first step in their grand design of a through rail link from China to Singapore via Thailand to go along with the one to India via Myanmar.

Ruvvery Jubbery!

[sjjmmi]

So they give the rice up-front or after completion

[harrry]

So they give the rice up-front or after completion

The rice stores aren't big enough to withold payment.

[Pattaya28]

Why doesn't Thailand build the "high-speed-rail-system" ? Would save face.

[soi41]

Wonder if the Chinese have to adjust their design to the reality of Thailand??

[wdr]

Project will be done after Thailand is an "Autonomous Province of China"

[chainarong]

The gravy train H/Speed express awaits at platform 13, now taking passengers, snouts trough bar, car 5,

[kotsak]

wdr, on 05 Nov 2013 - 12:02, said:

Project will be done after Thailand is an "Autonomous Province of China"

That's the long term plan.. They have Laos in their pocket already

[NongKhaiKid]

I'm sure the Chinese will be delighted to get involved in a route from Bangkok to Korat. It will be the first step in their grand design of a through rail link from China to Singapore via Thailand to go along with the one to India via Myanmar.

Ruvvery Jubbery!

Now we know the truth, the 5 million Chinese tourists are actually railway construction workers !

Wonder if they'll have to pay the new Arrival and Departure taxes ?

[BMF1960]

Oh great! There are more train accidents in China than coach accidents in Thailand! Another wise decision!

[AleG]

Half will be paid with rice... interesting. Are they going to subtract that from the 2.2 (5++ with interest) trillion loan then or are they going to pocket the difference?

[Publicus]

wdr, on 05 Nov 2013 - 12:02, said:

Project will be done after Thailand is an "Autonomous Province of China"

That's the long term plan.. They have Laos in their pocket already

That's another of Beijing's fantasies, yes. However, after 20 years of hard work, bucks and heavy investment Beijing has lost Myanmar to the US。

Myanmar has stopped all new development by Beijing, to include the onerous dams that had been under construction up in the North that have the population there up in arms. The energy pipeline just came online but that will basically be it for Beijing in Myanmar. And under the new scheme of things, the US has extracted veto authority over all foreign investment in Myanmar. Exit Beijing.

Beijing's control over SE Asia is now limited to two long time pals and servants, Laos and Cambodia which are not exactly power brokers in Asean or elsewhere.

Thailand is a US treaty ally, as is the Philippines. Malaysia is allowing US Navy ships to visit for the first time, which is of significance because Malaysia borders

the vital Malacca Strait.

Singapore wants to buy a bunch of the US's newest fighter jet the F-35 which is just coming online - Japan already will get a couple of wings of the F-35 early next year.

Most of the rustbuckets of the Thai Navy are made in China ships (thanks to Chavalit) and the Thai army has warehouses full of junk Chinese weapons because don't work. Why should the often crashed Chinese high speed trains work any better in Thailand? The Thais would have been much better off contracting with Japan or Germany, or France.

Thais never learn because they can't learn. So they always pay the price, and then some.

[Thai at Heart]

Half of the value of the trains will be paid for by food exports?

This really is becoming an inter provincial transfer of wealth.

[Mole]

Project will be done after Thailand is an "Autonomous Province of China"

In a few decades, many countries around here may actually wish they were one...

[yinyang]

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/07/11/japan-china-train-spat-heats-up/

Kawasaki Heavy Industries (KHI), maker of Japan's legendary Shinkansen bullet trains, bitterly disagrees. After signing technology transfers with CSR Sifang, the builder of China's high-speed rail, KHI says it deeply regrets its now-dissolved partnership.

With more than 300 million annual riders, Japan's Shinkansen -- 50 years old next year -- trains carry more passengers than those of any other HSR system. It has suffered no fatal accidents. The U.K. was impressed enough to complete a 540 billion yen deal with Hitachi, which also builds Shinkansen, to supply bullet trains by 2016.

http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2011/07/11/japan-china-train-spat-heats-up/

“The Beijing-Shanghai high-speed railway and Japan’s Shinkansen cannot be mentioned in the same breath, as many of the technological indicators used by China’s high-speed railways are far better than those used in Japan’s Shinkansen,” Mr. Wang said, according to Xinhua.

Joint ventures between China and Japanese rolling stock manufacturers extend back years. Kawasaki was among several firms that transfered technology to Chinese firms, like state-owned CSR Qingdao Sifang Co., only to see those companies soon begin competing against the Japanese giant.

China's high speed has already crashed, killing 40 and injuring hundreds.

Any high tech items from China are copied which is why they are cheap.

If they "improved" the design(to hide their copying) then the items are not safe.

If not Japan, choose France or Germany.

[hansnl]

wdr, on 05 Nov 2013 - 12:02, said:

Project will be done after Thailand is an "Autonomous Province of China"

That's the long term plan.. They have Laos in their pocket already

That's another of Beijing's fantasies, yes. However, after 20 years of hard work, bucks and heavy investment Beijing has lost Myanmar to the US。

Myanmar has stopped all new development by Beijing, to include the onerous dams that had been under construction up in the North that have the population there up in arms. The energy pipeline just came online but that will basically be it for Beijing in Myanmar. And under the new scheme of things, the US has extracted veto authority over all foreign investment in Myanmar. Exit Beijing.

Beijing's control over SE Asia is now limited to two long time pals and servants, Laos and Cambodia which are not exactly power brokers in Asean or elsewhere.

Thailand is a US treaty ally, as is the Philippines. Malaysia is allowing US Navy ships to visit for the first time, which is of significance because Malaysia borders

the vital Malacca Strait.

Singapore wants to buy a bunch of the US's newest fighter jet the F-35 which is just coming online - Japan already will get a couple of wings of the F-35 early next year.

Most of the rustbuckets of the Thai Navy are made in China ships (thanks to Chavalit) and the Thai army has warehouses full of junk Chinese weapons because don't work. Why should the often crashed Chinese high speed trains work any better in Thailand? The Thais would have been much better off contracting with Japan or Germany, or France.

Thais never learn because they can't learn. So they always pay the price, and then some.

The Chinese are Chinese.

The Thai leaders are Chinese.

Both are very well versed in the art of "squeeze"

Enough said?

When trading or dealing with China, China always wins.

Furthermore, all rail lines in China and all rail lines built by China outside the "Middle Kingdom" are there for Chinese strategic benefits, read military.

The Chinese HSL is a not all too good copy of the systems in France, Japan and Germany.

I read somewhere that by party decree the maximim speed has been lowered to 250 km/h, due to the rather high number of accidents.

Edited November 5, 2013 by hansnl

[Thai at Heart]

wdr, on 05 Nov 2013 - 12:02, said:

Project will be done after Thailand is an "Autonomous Province of China"

That's the long term plan.. They have Laos in their pocket already

That's another of Beijing's fantasies, yes. However, after 20 years of hard work, bucks and heavy investment Beijing has lost Myanmar to the US。

Myanmar has stopped all new development by Beijing, to include the onerous dams that had been under construction up in the North that have the population there up in arms. The energy pipeline just came online but that will basically be it for Beijing in Myanmar. And under the new scheme of things, the US has extracted veto authority over all foreign investment in Myanmar. Exit Beijing.

Beijing's control over SE Asia is now limited to two long time pals and servants, Laos and Cambodia which are not exactly power brokers in Asean or elsewhere.

Thailand is a US treaty ally, as is the Philippines. Malaysia is allowing US Navy ships to visit for the first time, which is of significance because Malaysia borders

the vital Malacca Strait.

Singapore wants to buy a bunch of the US's newest fighter jet the F-35 which is just coming online - Japan already will get a couple of wings of the F-35 early next year.

Most of the rustbuckets of the Thai Navy are made in China ships (thanks to Chavalit) and the Thai army has warehouses full of junk Chinese weapons because don't work. Why should the often crashed Chinese high speed trains work any better in Thailand? The Thais would have been much better off contracting with Japan or Germany, or France.

Thais never learn because they can't learn. So they always pay the price, and then some.

When it comes to who builds the trains, I do have to wonder why it HAS to be China at all costs. If the issue is getting the best trains, then anyone should be more than welcome to build them, but of course, the current government seems to be completely in thrawl of anything Chinese. That said, i was on one of these trains recently in China, and on the surface they seem fine.

However, this overwhelming apparent need to trade the damn rice away to China seems to be meaning that all roads must lead there. I really do wish however, that Thailand would try to get it's house in order instead of trying to scale access to business that isn't in everyone's best interest. Daiwei is precisely this type of thing. The clients don't really want it, but Italthai can make a bundle.

[pisico]

Meanwhile... As the maximum speed of bullet trains in China has been reduced to 250 km/h, here in Thailand choo-choo trains going to Chiang Mai struggle to maintain 50km/h for more than 2 hours. Provided they do not derail.

Oh Thainess, Thainess! we hardly knew you!

wdr, on 05 Nov 2013 - 12:02, said:

Project will be done after Thailand is an "Autonomous Province of China"

That's the long term plan.. They have Laos in their pocket already

That's another of Beijing's fantasies, yes. However, after 20 years of hard work, bucks and heavy investment Beijing has lost Myanmar to the US。

Myanmar has stopped all new development by Beijing, to include the onerous dams that had been under construction up in the North that have the population there up in arms. The energy pipeline just came online but that will basically be it for Beijing in Myanmar. And under the new scheme of things, the US has extracted veto authority over all foreign investment in Myanmar. Exit Beijing.

Beijing's control over SE Asia is now limited to two long time pals and servants, Laos and Cambodia which are not exactly power brokers in Asean or elsewhere.

Thailand is a US treaty ally, as is the Philippines. Malaysia is allowing US Navy ships to visit for the first time, which is of significance because Malaysia borders

the vital Malacca Strait.

Singapore wants to buy a bunch of the US's newest fighter jet the F-35 which is just coming online - Japan already will get a couple of wings of the F-35 early next year.

Most of the rustbuckets of the Thai Navy are made in China ships (thanks to Chavalit) and the Thai army has warehouses full of junk Chinese weapons because don't work. Why should the often crashed Chinese high speed trains work any better in Thailand? The Thais would have been much better off contracting with Japan or Germany, or France.

Thais never learn because they can't learn. So they always pay the price, and then some.

The Chinese are Chinese.

The Thai leaders are Chinese.

Both are very well versed in the art of "squeeze"

Enough said?

When trading or dealing with China, China always wins.

Furthermore, all rail lines in China and all rail lines built by China outside the "Middle Kingdom" are there for Chinese strategic benefits, read military.

The Chinese HSL is a not all too good copy of the systems in France, Japan and Germany.

I read somewhere that by party decree the maximim speed has been lowered to 250 km/h, due to the rather high number of accidents.

[Benmart]

The gravy train H/Speed express awaits at platform 13, now taking passengers, snouts trough bar, car 5,

Paints a great picture. I almost spilled my coffee with the image making me laugh. Thanks!

Oink, oink.

Edited November 5, 2013 by Benmart

[TheGhostWithin]

We have Chinese-made trains in our national rail network here in NZ. I am a rail network controller and have to deal with them every day.

Infact, exactly 1 hour ago I finished dealing with a train that for 76 minutes nobody could get to work. This is not a once off. This is a daily event, infact multiple event daily should be the correct wording.

Though admittedly not "high speed passenger locomotives", it is the safety technology which is flawed in the Chinese builds.. they are overbearing when they do not need to be, and fail to protect users when they should. Not necessarily the "cutting edge technnology" that the Chinese Government, who owns these railway industrial powerhouses back in China, would like you to believe they are. Google could make a hell of a lot of money getting involved in the safety side of this Chinese industry.

[Traveling Sailor]

MADE IN CHINA! As an American, there is no need to say anything more. But, for those of you who are not from the USA, MADE IN CHINA means CHEAP!

[scorecard]

MADE IN CHINA! As an American, there is no need to say anything more. But, for those of you who are not from the USA, MADE IN CHINA means CHEAP!

[Publicus]

wdr, on 05 Nov 2013 - 12:02, said:

Project will be done after Thailand is an "Autonomous Province of China"

That's the long term plan.. They have Laos in their pocket already

That's another of Beijing's fantasies, yes. However, after 20 years of hard work, bucks and heavy investment Beijing has lost Myanmar to the US。

Myanmar has stopped all new development by Beijing, to include the onerous dams that had been under construction up in the North that have the population there up in arms. The energy pipeline just came online but that will basically be it for Beijing in Myanmar. And under the new scheme of things, the US has extracted veto authority over all foreign investment in Myanmar. Exit Beijing.

Beijing's control over SE Asia is now limited to two long time pals and servants, Laos and Cambodia which are not exactly power brokers in Asean or elsewhere.

Thailand is a US treaty ally, as is the Philippines. Malaysia is allowing US Navy ships to visit for the first time, which is of significance because Malaysia borders

the vital Malacca Strait.

Singapore wants to buy a bunch of the US's newest fighter jet the F-35 which is just coming online - Japan already will get a couple of wings of the F-35 early next year.

Most of the rustbuckets of the Thai Navy are made in China ships (thanks to Chavalit) and the Thai army has warehouses full of junk Chinese weapons because don't work. Why should the often crashed Chinese high speed trains work any better in Thailand? The Thais would have been much better off contracting with Japan or Germany, or France.

Thais never learn because they can't learn. So they always pay the price, and then some.

The Chinese are Chinese.

The Thai leaders are Chinese.

Both are very well versed in the art of "squeeze"

Enough said?

When trading or dealing with China, China always wins.

Furthermore, all rail lines in China and all rail lines built by China outside the "Middle Kingdom" are there for Chinese strategic benefits, read military.

The Chinese HSL is a not all too good copy of the systems in France, Japan and Germany.

I read somewhere that by party decree the maximim speed has been lowered to 250 km/h, due to the rather high number of accidents.

The PRChinese got aced out of Burma by the United States alone - the CIA and，of all things，the State Department and the Treasury。CIA organized the monks‘ “Velvet Revolution” while State and Treasury cut off all global economic and financial dealings with Burma except for the CCP-PRC in Beijing。Cornered，the junta threw up their hands。Asean took notice and has taken notice very well。

The Philippines is beating up on the CCP before the UN Tribunal on the International Law of the Sea，where Beijing is losing its outrageous clam of sovereignty over almost all of the South China Sea。Beiing is doing so badly before the Tribunal a decision is expected late next year instead of three years yet。Legal experts are saying they'd rather be sitting in Manila's chair than in Beijing's。

India and Vietnam have successfully told Beijing to buzz out after Beijing had warned Vietnam not to tender an offshore leasing option to India and， with much gall，warned India not to accept the tender。Vietnam and India are proceeding while Beijing fumes。

Thai political elites connect with Beijing and some old line Sino-Thai business types do a lot of business with the CCP-PRC， CP Group especially which operates a lotta Lotus supermarkets on the mainland。

The army however doesn't like the republican CCP-PRC and has its own economic and financial interests to protect。And the CCP's ideology isn't particularly appealing to the Thai military types either。

Beijing's like anyone else - they win some，they lose some and some get rained out。

Nor did Beijing ever always get its way。

[Publicus]

Project will be done after Thailand is an "Autonomous Province of China"

In a few decades, many countries around here may actually wish they were one...

Surely you jest，right？

The property market bubble in Beijing alone is USD value 2 trillion - I say again，USD 2 trillion in Beijing alone。Everyone knows a bubble never ends well and this bubble alone is a whopper。

The CCP-PRC banking system is in a huge bubble。The shadow banking system has its own enormous bubble。Local governments throughout the CCP-PRC have debt equivalent to one-third of GDP. When one bubble bursts all other bubbles will follow。Property values will crash，people's savings will be obliterated。

And we haven't begun to discuss massive and endemic corruption。

Two decades from now China will no longer be the CCP-PRC. For 17 or so years of the next two decades It will have been the global poorhouse again。

[Thai at Heart]

The PRChinese got aced out of Burma by the United States alone - the CIA and，of all things，the State Department and the Treasury。CIA organized the monks‘ “Velvet Revolution” while State and Treasury cut off all global economic and financial dealings with Burma except for the CCP-PRC in Beijing。Cornered，the junta threw up their hands。Asean took notice and has taken notice very well。

The Philippines is beating up on the CCP before the UN Tribunal on the International Law of the Sea，where Beijing is losing its outrageous clam of sovereignty over almost all of the South China Sea。Beiing is doing so badly before the Tribunal a decision is expected late next year instead of three years yet。Legal experts are saying they'd rather be sitting in Manila's chair than in Beijing's。

India and Vietnam have successfully told Beijing to buzz out after Beijing had warned Vietnam not to tender an offshore leasing option to India and， with much gall，warned India not to accept the tender。Vietnam and India are proceeding while Beijing fumes。

Thai political elites connect with Beijing and some old line Sino-Thai business types do a lot of business with the CCP-PRC， CP Group especially which operates a lotta Lotus supermarkets on the mainland。

The army however doesn't like the republican CCP-PRC and has its own economic and financial interests to protect。And the CCP's ideology isn't particularly appealing to the Thai military types either。

Beijing's like anyone else - they win some，they lose some and some get rained out。

Nor did Beijing ever always get its way。

A very rational explanation. The one group in there that scare me are CP and their cohorts. They seem to be the very acceptable face of business that weedles it's way into every Asian country's agribusiness, and ends up controlling it. These guys are very very closely related to the Chinese government and I often worry about what exactly their motivation is. Virtually no one in China knows that Chia Thai is a thai company, and virtually no one in Thailand knows about their massively strong connections and business in China. They are in Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma and Laos. Is there a single market in SE Asia they don't have a massive percentage of ALL the agribusiness?

They get access to things in China that no one else can, and in return, they infiltrate everyone's agribusiness. One decision in China, and they could virtually starve South East Asia if they wanted to.

[Publicus]

My post above should read the “Saffron Revolution” rather than the “Velvet Revolution” in respect to the monks of Myanmar having been organized by the CIA.

This post is to clarify the proper referencing。

[rubl]

"She also revealed that Thailand has asked China to plan and design the Bangkok-Nakhon Ratchasima high-speed train route"

As China does this for free, the government didn't need to go through a bothersome bidding process, I guess?

[Publicus]

The PRChinese got aced out of Burma by the United States alone - the CIA and，of all things，the State Department and the Treasury。CIA organized the monks‘ “Velvet Revolution” while State and Treasury cut off all global economic and financial dealings with Burma except for the CCP-PRC in Beijing。Cornered，the junta threw up their hands。Asean took notice and has taken notice very well。

The Philippines is beating up on the CCP before the UN Tribunal on the International Law of the Sea，where Beijing is losing its outrageous clam of sovereignty over almost all of the South China Sea。Beiing is doing so badly before the Tribunal a decision is expected late next year instead of three years yet。Legal experts are saying they'd rather be sitting in Manila's chair than in Beijing's。

India and Vietnam have successfully told Beijing to buzz out after Beijing had warned Vietnam not to tender an offshore leasing option to India and， with much gall，warned India not to accept the tender。Vietnam and India are proceeding while Beijing fumes。

Thai political elites connect with Beijing and some old line Sino-Thai business types do a lot of business with the CCP-PRC， CP Group especially which operates a lotta Lotus supermarkets on the mainland。

The army however doesn't like the republican CCP-PRC and has its own economic and financial interests to protect。And the CCP's ideology isn't particularly appealing to the Thai military types either。

Beijing's like anyone else - they win some，they lose some and some get rained out。

Nor did Beijing ever always get its way。

A very rational explanation. The one group in there that scare me are CP and their cohorts. They seem to be the very acceptable face of business that weedles it's way into every Asian country's agribusiness, and ends up controlling it. These guys are very very closely related to the Chinese government and I often worry about what exactly their motivation is. Virtually no one in China knows that Chia Thai is a thai company, and virtually no one in Thailand knows about their massively strong connections and business in China. They are in Malaysia, Indonesia, Vietnam, Cambodia, Burma and Laos. Is there a single market in SE Asia they don't have a massive percentage of ALL the agribusiness?

They get access to things in China that no one else can, and in return, they infiltrate everyone's agribusiness. One decision in China, and they could virtually starve South East Asia if they wanted to.

For sure，CP Group is an octopus and giant squid at the same time too。

It's also in India and now entering the Philippines。

As mean as the Boyz in Beijing are，I don't think anyone will be starving anyone anytime soon。Given how the CCP thinks and operates tho, I'd get more concerned about wholesale poisoning of populations in any extreme crisis, but that's about it.

CP Group has the 7-Eleven franchise for Thailand and for all of the CCP-PRC, which Ｉｓｕｐｐｏｓｅ　ｍｉｇｈｔ　ｐｒｏｖｉｄｅ　ｓｏｍｅ　ｍｅａｓｕｒｅ　ｏｆ　ｌｅｖｅｒａｇｅ　ｉｆ　ｐｕｓｈ　　ｃｏｍｅｓ　ｔｏ　ｓｈｏｖｅ。

Ｉ　ｇｏｔｔａ　ｑｕｉｔ　ａｔ　　ｔｈｉｓ　　ｐｏｉｎｔ　　ａｓ　　ｙｏｕ　　ｃａｎ　　ｓｅｅ。

Edited November 5, 2013 by Publicus

[Loles]

Why have to ask ??? They will copy something for their fake train