Protesters in Bangkok rise to Suthep's call

[ianf]

The money involved in this is astounding.

Two of my neighbours are paid 2000THB per day to attend this fiasco in BKK. 2000thb!!!!!!!

Wonder how many would show up if no money was paid and they went because they BELIEVED in this cause?

Absolutely do not believe this.

[winstonc]

In reality since I am Farang I don't care if the Thais protest into eternity. But coming from a democracy I find this a joke. Each side has a beef I agree. So what the Thais are doing is metaphorically holding a gun to each others head and saying ' Do it my way "

In a democracy that only works for a small about of time and then both sided ( god forbid) have to come together and COMPROMISE. This cannot be a war of who loses face first.

In a nutshell I say to the protesters now " where are your children" and what are you teaching them. If you keep this up you will destroy their future.

You have lost your way on protesting and are all bound up in Emotion and not reality. Difference of opinion is the cause of this . Do you run your marriage this way. Is this the way you conduct yourself at work. Is this the way you want your young child to see you.

Where is the love of your country . There is a crack in the fabric of society here in Thailand and everyone and I mean everyone must come together and solve this problem otherwise it will completely tear apart the fabric of your society and leave many in its dust .

Its time to make amens with everyone RED SHIRTS YELLOW SHIRTS THAILAND and any other faction that is fulling this fire.

Don't do it for any other reason but for your children the love of Family and your Country

I cry for you

i cry for your complete lack of knowledge on whats going on.dont start trolling surely your better than that....yingluck.i know this is you.because you certainly havnt got a clue .incase you didnt know its thursday...ta ta.....

[MK1]

Asoke becomes another protest site

The Nation November 7, 2013 12:26 pm

A number of anti-bill protesters are seen at Asoke Intersection on Thursday.

Organised by a group of democracy-promoting businessmen, the protest is well backed by office workers in the

business area as well as the general public.

Edited November 7, 2013 by MK1

[Roachiebkk]

The money involved in this is astounding.

Two of my neighbours are paid 2000THB per day to attend this fiasco in BKK. 2000thb!!!!!!!

Wonder how many would show up if no money was paid and they went because they BELIEVED in this cause?

All of my Thai friends attending the rally have not been nor would contemplate accepting any money to attend. It's a load of rubbish, 2k baht a day.

[monkeycountry]

"She (Yingluck) also urged people to calm down, and called on the opposition - which is leading a rally on Rajdamneon Avenue - to fight in Parliament."

They already tried that, but the PTP house speakers decided that there was no point listening to the opposition MPs, as the PTP had the majority vote anyway.

Yingluck would have known this had she attended parliament instead of a beauty pageant in Lopburi!

[Thai at Heart]

Have to agree with Alongkorn's proposal here - is there finally a prominent Democrat with some sense? Let the senate revise the bill so that it reverts to its original provision of amnesty for ordinary protesters only, excluding leaders and Thaksin. There's cross-party support for this and it'll also mean that the government can't resubmit it after 180 days so it won't matter if Yingluck is insincere about PT's intentions. If he manages to pull it off, he'll surely win support from people who're willing to compromise and listen to reason. A victory for society as a whole.

Of course, even if that were to happen, it'd only result in a postponement of the govt's efforts to bring back Thaksin. But they'll do it as they should have done originally (from a politically effective POV, rather than my own), by amending the constitution. Thaksin's return is always the endgame here, but I still think if he were to stay quiet for a few years and do his best behind the scenes to capacitate a competent government, he could probably come back with a minimum of fuss, in say, 2017. In general, the Thai tradition is to forgive and forget - arguably part of the problem, of course - but Thaksin won't allow that process to happen by continually trying to ensure he remains in the public eye. I guess from his perspective, he thinks that's necessary because if people forget about him, PT won't get elected, and he'd have no chance of any sort of amnesty in the near future. But polls a year ago were showing Yingluck was more popular than he was, so PT could probably have two terms at least without his prescence being necessary, esp. given the perennial unpopularity & ineptitude of the Democrats. Jury's out on whether Thaksin coming back would result in a more competent, less corrupt, government. Some say that he's responsible for the few competent ministers: Chaturon, Pongthep, Chatchart etc, and that it's Yingluck and party advisors who've been responsible for a succession of imbeciles and incompetents in key posts. Others say that Thaksin shot himself in the foot, there were plenty of smart people ready to join the government, but Thaksin turned them away in order to reward old favourites and party stalwarts.

In any case, still think he'll be destroyed by his own hubris in the end...

He'll never get back easily. He broke too many promises and contacts. He scares the establishment.

[Rimmer]

Off topic reported post about events several years back removed

[Thai at Heart]

In reality since I am Farang I don't care if the Thais protest into eternity.

I am a foreigner, too, but I do care if they protest into eternity. While all this protesting and quibbling is going on, it is badly damaging peoples' livelihoods.

Mine and my wife's, for example.

i feel for you ,glad its not just about you ...its about more than you....try justice for starters...im sure youl survive...good luck.

If it's effecting one foreign individual got can be sure it's effecting Thais. The outcome of this may effect Thailand for a very long time.

[tominbkk]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTyAZTvLfAM

[Nickymaster]

The money involved in this is astounding.

Two of my neighbours are paid 2000THB per day to attend this fiasco in BKK. 2000thb!!!!!!!

Wonder how many would show up if no money was paid and they went because they BELIEVED in this cause?

You mean that all the university students, professors, business men, employees, government officials, lawyers, judges etc are all paid THB 2,000 a day?

I also heard that there are some small pro-amnesty bill protests. Could it be that your neighbors have attended those?

Edited November 7, 2013 by Nickymaster

[Nickymaster]

I don't get it. The vote was 310:0 - this, for me as a born Swiss, says it all!

What do you mean by "says it all"?

[hellodolly]

What a stupid statement by Yingluck: how can the Democrats fight this in Parliament with a PT majority and a biased chief whip?

Well it may have been a stupid statement but that is the best she could do. Doesn't say much for are clone PM. I think there is some thing lost on both sides in the cloning process.

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

He red them in the Red shirt newspaper. Also his good confidant Jutuporn told him it was so.

if the Senate, which convenes on Monday, decides to kill the bill, then the other five draft laws related to amnesty would also be withdrawn. He added that the government would not submit any more rift-provoking bills.

Hah, just wait for Chalerm...

He'll comes around your blind corner when you least expect it... he goes for the goal... and then he shoots his mouth off

It5 is my understanding that Chalerm already has two new drafts ready to go. Apparently we will have tio wait 180 days to see them.

[hellodolly]

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

Wish I can prove it. I appreciate you calling me a liar, but I stand by what the neighbour said, what my wife said and what the villagers are gossiping about.

This "liar" will insist that most of that crowd is bought and paid for. The reds did it and there are articles on it.

So you are now saying it is not a fact it is a rumor.

[hellodolly]

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

Wish I can prove it. I appreciate you calling me a liar, but I stand by what the neighbour said, what my wife said and what the villagers are gossiping about.

This "liar" will insist that most of that crowd is bought and paid for. The reds did it and there are articles on it.

I believe you heard what you said you heard but, did you ever stop to think that maybe your neighbors said what they said to discredit the current protests. It wouldn't be the first time in World history that someone lied about someone else to discredit them. You have to consider the source and the motives of the source when it is just 'someone saying'. There was video proof of the Red Shirts being paid so we didn't have to consider the source. Surely government agents and Red spies will get video if daily payments are being made. I'm not calling you a liar and you were right to post what you heard your neighbors say but I will wait for a better source than 'what your neighbors said'.

The problem was he posted it as fact and later said it was a rumor going around the village.

If his neighbors were getting 2,000 baht a day what were they doing in the village when they could be earning 2,000 baht a day in Bangkok?

He must be mistaking us for the village idiot.

[scorecard]

Somtam ... I sincerely doubt that your claims of 2k THB are true/accurate.

Wish I can prove it. I appreciate you calling me a liar, but I stand by what the neighbour said, what my wife said and what the villagers are gossiping about.

This "liar" will insist that most of that crowd is bought and paid for. The reds did it and there are articles on it.

So bottom line your assuming that because the reds were paid therefore the current protestors are also paid.

[hellodolly]

First of its proven the reds were paid.

No proof any of these guys who are hard working people and students not rice farmers intent on burning the city.

Also you have to look at how the protest were organised, the reds were centrally organised. This time there is not really a central organisation its many groups coming together to protest against the breakdown of law. There is no central paymaster urging them on and probably after this bill is gone they will stop and not try to bring down the government. Because they are not all democrat supporters, they just want justice and no central paymaster is paying them to do so. If there was a central paymaster he would want a lot more for his money then just destroying this bill.

So it's proven that *all* of the reds were paid? Wasn't aware of that, you'll have to tell my friends in Saphan Kwai where they should go to demand their cheques, because they haven't received a dime. I think it's fairly clear that many rural reds received a basic stipend, but, as I say, that doesn't mean they didn't believe in what they were protesting. In fact I'm pretty sure they did in most cases. If it was all about money, as some people continue to claim (does a thread go by without a comment about a red doing something or other for 500 baht? I've begun to think this says more about their own thinking than it does red shirts), we wouldn't even be talking about this now. The conflict is caused by people believing in things too strongly, not by people not caring and doing things because they're paid 500 baht. I say *too strongly* because as Pravit said in his article the other day, I think people have become overinvested in personalities, which has obscured their ability to see what what's really at stake. For example: I've spoken to people who claim to believe in democracy, yet believe democracy involves strongly supporting either Thaksin or Abhisit, when I believe democracy requires neither...

Can't help but read a fair amount of prejudice in yr second paragraph. So rice farmers are set on anarchy and aren't 'hard working', whilst the urban dwellers, students and office types, are all ideal citizens? Pay their taxes and believe in *real* democracy? Anyway, I really haven't looked into the social stratas involved in these protests other than what I've read here on TV, but I know that the majority involved in the Lumpini protests were rural, and if there are a significant amount of protesters and the Democrats are involved, it'd be very, very, surprising if they haven't bussed any in from the South. In which case, it's absolutely no different to when PT networks bring people into BKK for red shirt protests - people from urban areas usually showed up at the red shirt protests in the evening, swelling the numbers significantly. Suthep coordinating protesters isn't any different to whoever Thaksin has had bringing people in. And I'll say, again, just because they were mobilized by political party figures doesn't necessarily imply they don't believe in whatever they're protesting, in this case, according to you for "justice".

I'd also say that during the 2010 protests, the few red shirts involved in arson were likely not rice farmers, as far as the evidence I've seen goes, they were slum dwellers or in the case of the people that Jeff Savage was hanging out with who went to Channel 3, they were based in Pattaya.

I was under the belief that they were getting paid and had to turn there ID cards in to the organizers to receive their pay. Also that the pay had been stopped to the common red shirts while the money still flowed into the pockets of the rabble rousers. You know the ones seen on u tube urging the rest to burn Bangkok down. In the end it was the largesse of the government they tried to destroy that they were able to return home.

Not sure if they were rice farmers or field workers. From what I heard they left the place like a pig pen. I think they were more of a collection from the bars.

[belg]

time for a north & a south thailand?

leader of the north .... mister T

[indyuk]

In politics the strategy is seldom clear any good politician always includes options.

However I always preferred the 'Short' Amnesty Bill option to the current 'soup to nuts' version. I had never thought that Thaksin would be able to return under the short version of the Amnesty Bill.

Although Thaksin does not have a right to appeal against his conviction or the severity of its penalties he should and must seek an opportunity to clear his name if he is clean as he says.

I continue to have high hopes for PM Yingluck because she seems so sincere in her love of her country and its people. I hear those that say that PM Yingluck is naive and not and an experienced politician. However there have been many 'great premiers' in my lifetime such as Vaclav Harvel and Lek Walesa. I sincerely believe that PM Yingluck is the opportunity that the Thai people should grasp and that there may never be another chance for political peace of this equal.

Vaclav Havel:- http://deathandtaxesmag.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/havel.jpg

Lek Walesa: http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1983/walesa_postcard.jpg

Edited November 7, 2013 by indyuk

[robblok]

In politics the strategy is seldom clear any good politician always includes options.

However I always preferred the 'Short' Amnesty Bill option to the current 'soup to nuts' version. I had never thought that Thaksin would be able to return under the short version of the Amnesty Bill.

Although Thaksin does not have a right to appeal against his conviction or the severity of its penalties he should and must seek an opportunity to clear his name if he is clean as he says.

I continue to have high hopes for PM Yingluck because she seems so sincere in her love of her country and its people. I hear those that say that PM Yingluck is naive and not and an experienced politician. However there have been many 'great premiers' in my lifetime such as Vaclav Harvel and Lek Walesa. I sincerely believe that PM Yingluck is the opportunity that the Thai people should grasp and that there may never be another chance for political peace of this equal.

http://deathandtaxesmag.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/havel.jpg

http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1983/walesa_postcard.jpg

Wise words from a red supporter, I am not against an amnesty for the non leaders. I am just against anything that clears Taksin, and if he is indeed as clean let him prove it, don't forget there are many more and more damaging cases against him waiting.

H was also the guy that send a cake box full of money to judges (later claiming it was a mistake not many will believe that)

As for YL im not going to say too much as this is about the amnesty not if she is doing a good job or not.

I do have a other question my friends who are demonstrating certainly did not rise to Suthep's call but more out of injustice. They are not following a central leader they are just protesting against this crazy amnesty.

[GentlemanJim]

The money involved in this is astounding.

Two of my neighbours are paid 2000THB per day to attend this fiasco in BKK. 2000thb!!!!!!!

Wonder how many would show up if no money was paid and they went because they BELIEVED in this cause?

You mean that all the university students, professors, business men, employees, government officials, lawyers, judges etc are all paid THB 2,000 a day?

I also heard that there are some small pro-amnesty bill protests. Could it be that your neighbors have attended those?

That is exactly what i thought! Pro Amnesty bill protestors being paid, anti amnesty bill protestors dont need to be paid they believe in what they are doing!

[ianf]

In politics the strategy is seldom clear any good politician always includes options.

However I always preferred the 'Short' Amnesty Bill option to the current 'soup to nuts' version. I had never thought that Thaksin would be able to return under the short version of the Amnesty Bill.

Although Thaksin does not have a right to appeal against his conviction or the severity of its penalties he should and must seek an opportunity to clear his name if he is clean as he says.

I continue to have high hopes for PM Yingluck because she seems so sincere in her love of her country and its people. I hear those that say that PM Yingluck is naive and not and an experienced politician. However there have been many 'great premiers' in my lifetime such as Vaclav Harvel and Lek Walesa. I sincerely believe that PM Yingluck is the opportunity that the Thai people should grasp and that there may never be another chance for political peace of this equal.

Vaclav Havel:- http://deathandtaxesmag.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/havel.jpg

Lek Walesa: http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1983/walesa_postcard.jpg

Such naivety is beyond my comprehension. Did you read her open letter to 'the People'? Have you any idea of the power that wealthy families exert in Thailand?

[jayboy]

Asoke becomes another protest site

The Nation November 7, 2013 12:26 pm

A number of anti-bill protesters are seen at Asoke Intersection on Thursday.

Organised by a group of democracy-promoting businessmen, the protest is well backed by office workers in the

business area as well as the general public.

Fortunately it looks as though the government is backing off this foolish umbrella amnesty.But for the office workers in Silom at some level some of them must wonder at the irony in which a protest based on hatred of corruption is led by Suthep,(allegedly) a past master in that area.I would be even more impressed if these mainly Sino Thai salarymen were as much protesting at the amnesty for those involved in the 2010 deaths.Strangely and I think rather impressively the dislike of the umbrella amnesty unites very disparate groups.A massive miscalculation by Thaksin.Anyway time to put on my Guy Fawkes mask (it's a joke the usual suspects manage to overlook the regicide connotations).Apparently these masks are made in Brazilian sweatshops:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/marthagill/100244704/anonymous-have-been-exposed-as-hypocrites-who-use-sweatshops-watch-them-try-to-wriggle-out-of-it/

I see Russell Brand is the current hero of the movement.Hypothetically which side would Russell support in Thailand?

[khunken]

In politics the strategy is seldom clear any good politician always includes options.

However I always preferred the 'Short' Amnesty Bill option to the current 'soup to nuts' version. I had never thought that Thaksin would be able to return under the short version of the Amnesty Bill.

Although Thaksin does not have a right to appeal against his conviction or the severity of its penalties he should and must seek an opportunity to clear his name if he is clean as he says.

I continue to have high hopes for PM Yingluck because she seems so sincere in her love of her country and its people. I hear those that say that PM Yingluck is naive and not and an experienced politician. However there have been many 'great premiers' in my lifetime such as Vaclav Harvel and Lek Walesa. I sincerely believe that PM Yingluck is the opportunity that the Thai people should grasp and that there may never be another chance for political peace of this equal.

Vaclav Havel:- http://deathandtaxesmag.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/havel.jpg

Lek Walesa: http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1983/walesa_postcard.jpg

After a bit of sense in your first 2 paragraphs you lapse into la la land.

Many criminals maintain their innocence but once their legal appeals run out and and are convicted - that's it. What you & Thaksin are saying is that he is so special that he should be given yet another trial (with larger lunch boxes?).

Yingluck sincere? I salute your naivety as it is obvious that you've not bothered to read - for example - her party political speech in Mongolia. You only have to look at her crocodile tears at a recently staged setup with some distant (paid) relatives of those killed in 2010. She's only there to keep the seat warm for the great one's return.

BTW Lech Walesa has also lapsed into la la land and now says the Pope & God brought about the downfall of the Soviet Union in Poland

[waynerooney]

Does no one have a job in Bangkok or is this there job,

[hellodolly]

Madame PM/DM says "her" government respect and honour the law. Very reassuring to hear this.

So we can expect her to fully answer the Ombudsman's outstanding questions on the illegal issuing of a new Thai passport to her criminal fugitive brother ? To immediately cancel this illegal passport, and take full responsibility for the issuing ?

Maybe she will also instigate extradition proceeding so the criminal fugitive can be returned, serve his sentence and face the numerous other outstanding criminal charges against him ?

I'm not holding my breadth.

I don't think there is an extradition treaty with Dubai.

All so I believe that Interpol would not touch it because it is a in country thing not international.

As I recall they were asked to arrest him but did not do so.

International extradition proceedings I think do not apply to all crimes also the different countries may have a different agreement. Thaksins crimes may not fall under the various agreements. Look at the States they let him in and they have an agreement with Thailand.

As for the passport no nothing will be done about it. In the area between her ears is the thought that it was a long time ago so it dosen't matter. This of course is bolstered by her clone.

[khunken]

Asoke becomes another protest site

The Nation November 7, 2013 12:26 pm

A number of anti-bill protesters are seen at Asoke Intersection on Thursday.

Organised by a group of democracy-promoting businessmen, the protest is well backed by office workers in the

business area as well as the general public.

Fortunately it looks as though the government is backing off this foolish umbrella amnesty.But for the office workers in Silom at some level some of them must wonder at the irony in which a protest based on hatred of corruption is led by Suthep,(allegedly) a past master in that area.I would be even more impressed if these mainly Sino Thai salarymen were as much protesting at the amnesty for those involved in the 2010 deaths.Strangely and I think rather impressively the dislike of the umbrella amnesty unites very disparate groups.A massive miscalculation by Thaksin.Anyway time to put on my Guy Fawkes mask (it's a joke the usual suspects manage to overlook the regicide connotations).Apparently these masks are made in Brazilian sweatshops:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/marthagill/100244704/anonymous-have-been-exposed-as-hypocrites-who-use-sweatshops-watch-them-try-to-wriggle-out-of-it/

I see Russell Brand is the current hero of the movement.Hypothetically which side would Russell support in Thailand?

The Silom & Asoke protestors are not led by Suthep. They have their own local leaders. I passed the Asoke protestors earlier today and it was an anti-amnesty protest not a pro Democrat one. I gave them a thumbs up from my bus.

As for protesting against the 2010 deaths, they may well feel that by financing & instigating the riots & protests, the same individual (that the amnesty is all about) bears the ultimate responsibility for the deaths.

Given the price of some of the V-masks, I would thing that it's extremely unlikely they came from Brazil. Anyway I haven't seen them in the current protests.

[jdinasia]

In reality since I am Farang I don't care if the Thais protest into eternity.

I am a foreigner, too, but I do care if they protest into eternity. While all this protesting and quibbling is going on, it is badly damaging peoples' livelihoods.

Mine and my wife's, for example.

You have piqued my curiosity. How is a political rally damaging your livelihood?

(I really am curious but I will not fault you for not answering if you choose not to.)

This is not about you, or me, or even foreigners here. This is a battle in no small part about money politics and about the future of democracy in Thailand. I would be much happier if Suthep were not on the stage but not everything changes all at once.

[hellodolly]

In politics the strategy is seldom clear any good politician always includes options.

However I always preferred the 'Short' Amnesty Bill option to the current 'soup to nuts' version. I had never thought that Thaksin would be able to return under the short version of the Amnesty Bill.

Although Thaksin does not have a right to appeal against his conviction or the severity of its penalties he should and must seek an opportunity to clear his name if he is clean as he says.

I continue to have high hopes for PM Yingluck because she seems so sincere in her love of her country and its people. I hear those that say that PM Yingluck is naive and not and an experienced politician. However there have been many 'great premiers' in my lifetime such as Vaclav Harvel and Lek Walesa. I sincerely believe that PM Yingluck is the opportunity that the Thai people should grasp and that there may never be another chance for political peace of this equal.

Vaclav Havel:- http://deathandtaxesmag.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/havel.jpg

Lek Walesa: http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/peace/laureates/1983/walesa_postcard.jpg

Not sure what you are talking about with Yingluck. I will grant you that from the shoulders up on the out side she looks good. But in two years what has she done that would put her in the class of Lek Walesa?

If I remember my history right he was a big part in bringing freedom into Poland. You insult him ranking Yingluck in the same class as him. Been a long time but I don't recall him spending all his time shopping traveling around the world and trying to white wash his brother. If indeed he had one. He was for a united Poland. The working class were equal to any one else in his eyes. He did not act like his sh t didn't stink unlike the PM in Thailand/Dubai.

Sorry not familiar with the other fellow. Truth of the matter after Walesa helped free Poland I believe he was not that great as a PM or President. that was not his strong point. I may be wrong on that as I say it has been a long time.

[Somtamnication]

The money involved in this is astounding.

Two of my neighbours are paid 2000THB per day to attend this fiasco in BKK. 2000thb!!!!!!!

Wonder how many would show up if no money was paid and they went because they BELIEVED in this cause?

You mean that all the university students, professors, business men, employees, government officials, lawyers, judges etc are all paid THB 2,000 a day?

I also heard that there are some small pro-amnesty bill protests. Could it be that your neighbors have attended those?

Incredible how people refuse to read. Where did I say EVERYONE was being paid? I said two of my neighbours are.

Thai apologist or not, you gotta learn to read, mate!

[Nickymaster]

The money involved in this is astounding.

Two of my neighbours are paid 2000THB per day to attend this fiasco in BKK. 2000thb!!!!!!!

Wonder how many would show up if no money was paid and they went because they BELIEVED in this cause?

You mean that all the university students, professors, business men, employees, government officials, lawyers, judges etc are all paid THB 2,000 a day?

I also heard that there are some small pro-amnesty bill protests. Could it be that your neighbors have attended those?

Incredible how people refuse to read. Where did I say EVERYONE was being paid? I said two of my neighbours are.

Thai apologist or not, you gotta learn to read, mate!

Please re-read your own post.....mate!!

The money involved in this is astounding. How can the money involved be astounding if they only pay 2 people? Therefor I asked you if it covers the groups I mentioned that make up tens of thousands of people?

Wonder how many would show up if no money was paid and they went because they BELIEVED in this cause? Well, the groups I mentioned in my previous post are showing up. In other words, tens of thousands of people.

Thaksin fan or not, please don't say things that don't make sense and then call people apologist if they ASK for clarification. You don't follow the news?