Tisco car repocession puzzle?

[rayinkrabi]

Hi all, my wife and I have been living apart for over a year now although she signed as guarantor for me when I took a new fiesta car on finance10 months ago. Within a week or so of signing she became angry and declared that she no longer wants to be guarantor, she was politely but firmly told this can not be changed until after 1 year or the car is transferred to another name.

2 weeks ago, while returning my wife and baby to their house after a vsit and nice trip to the park my very angry wife snatched my keys out of the ignition and then locked her self in her house. After a few minutes getting over the shock I decided it best to leave her to it and walked to the bus stop (about 3 flippin' kilometres!) as she is not shy to throw rocks and punches when she is in this mood.

I returned the next morning with 2 policemen but she still refused to return the car, the police were sympathetic but said they were powerless as we are still legally married. I was told by a mutual friend that she had delivered the car back to Tisco bank last Thursday with a sob story of how I had deserted her and had handed the car keys to her, all lies, but they seem to have swallowed it!

I went to the bank with my GF on Friday to pay this months installment (due on the 4th so I was 4 days late) and collect the car but was amazed to be told that it was too late and they had already sent the car to BK !? I've always paid the installments on time, in fact this is the 3rd car I've bought on finance here and have always paid on time and never had a problem. I asked to speak to the manager but was told he was out to lunch. Being an open plan bank and very busy at the time it wasn't long before I noticed all the customers and staff taking an interest in this so I decided to leave then and return on Monday with a lawyer.

Any ideas on this as I always thought a finance company would only deal with the registered keeper and would never repocess after just a few days 'non payment' ?

[rayinkrabi]

Hmm, no replies as yet...maybe my post was too long winded..apologies.

quick question tho: any one know exactly how much 'power' a guarantor has with a finance company? and are Tisco legally able to seize a car as they see fit even when there is no default on payments?

Ah well, I guess I'll know soon enough anyway as I'm meeting the lawyer first thing in the morning.

[WarpSpeed]

I think you answered your own question in stating that your next course of action was to retain an attorney and pose these questions to them.. It does seem premature to have transferred it so quickly just based on her say so but why wouldn't they? As she wrote you out of the picture with her reasoning to them, it seems her approach was well rehearsed.... I'm always perplexed at how many people here criticize and demean the Thai's intellect but always seem to fall head long into these traps with their eyes wide shut..

In hind sight, personally the lesson learned here seems to be, keep a spare set of keys, especially when you have all indications of a vindictive mate..

[rayinkrabi]

Not sure what you mean by this Warp "It does seem premature to have transferred it so quickly just based on her say so but why wouldn't they?" transfer? to who? and the reason why not to do so is that I had not defaulted or in any way broken my contract with Tisco, which is why I asked the previous 2 questions.

The spare key woulldn't help on this occasion as I was a long way from home and she locked the entrance gates, it just so happens that I entrusted her with the spare 10 months ago, besides, I'm told by ford they can get a new key within a week or 2 (I was sure to take the car book with me when I walked away).

[WarpSpeed]

Buuut you're not Thai are you? She, being Thai obviously has more pull than you do as a lowly, untrustworthy farang (in their minds) as they required her to sponsor you for the loan in the first place yes? As sponsor she also has the right to back out instead of letting someone bring down her credit by being neglect in payments, I'm not saying you were but she painted it as you were no longer in the picture and it was going to go in arrears..

You said they transferred the car to Bangkok? Also by "transfer" I'm referring from your ownership to theirs apparently based on what she told them, she had the keys etc. pretty compelling proof where they're concerned, not likely they were going to sit around with it waiting for your confirmation when she told them you left town. JFYI don't murder the messenger please, you asked, I responded...

Sooooo if you had a spare key the moment she took the originals you wouldn't have been able to take the car at that point?

[crumpled]

It sounds like a pre-planned operation too. She most likely knew what the finance company needed and what they wanted to hear. Quite possibly that is why she took the keys.

Many a devious person out there

[IMHO]

Mistakes have been made here by Tisco, but better you leave it to a Thai person (your lawyer) to sort out. Pity you were 4 days late, that does indeed complicate it - the person who stands to lose face can use that to prove breach of contract.

[Spoonman]

Not sure what you mean by this Warp "It does seem premature to have transferred it so quickly just based on her say so but why wouldn't they?" transfer? to who? and the reason why not to do so is that I had not defaulted or in any way broken my contract with Tisco, which is why I asked the previous 2 questions.

The spare key woulldn't help on this occasion as I was a long way from home and she locked the entrance gates, it just so happens that I entrusted her with the spare 10 months ago, besides, I'm told by ford they can get a new key within a week or 2 (I was sure to take the car book with me when I walked away).

Errr so who has the spare key, is at at your home or does she have it ?

Why do you have the book if the vehicle is financed ?

[stevenl]

Have your lawyer sort this out. I very much doubt they had the right to take it away.

[Spoonman]

Have your lawyer sort this out. I very much doubt they had the right to take it away.

They did not take it away, the gauranteer gave it back to them with a sob story claiming the financier had abandoned the vehicle and she did not want to be held to make the repayments.

Would love to know how the OP had the book though as I had to borrow mine from Tisco to update the engine number and that has been a ongoing living nightmare.

[stevenl]

Have your lawyer sort this out. I very much doubt they had the right to take it away.

They did not take it away, the gauranteer gave it back to them with a sob story claiming the financier had abandoned the vehicle and she did not want to be held to make the repayments.

Would love to know how the OP had the book though as I had to borrow mine from Tisco to update the engine number and that has been a ongoing living nightmare.

So they did take it away from the OP, how they got it is immaterial.

[Spoonman]

Have your lawyer sort this out. I very much doubt they had the right to take it away.

They did not take it away, the gauranteer gave it back to them with a sob story claiming the financier had abandoned the vehicle and she did not want to be held to make the repayments.

Would love to know how the OP had the book though as I had to borrow mine from Tisco to update the engine number and that has been a ongoing living nightmare.

So they did take it away from the OP, how they got it is immaterial.

Are your eyes painted on, Tisco did not take the vehicle from the OP the wife did.

[stevenl]

Have your lawyer sort this out. I very much doubt they had the right to take it away.

They did not take it away, the gauranteer gave it back to them with a sob story claiming the financier had abandoned the vehicle and she did not want to be held to make the repayments.

Would love to know how the OP had the book though as I had to borrow mine from Tisco to update the engine number and that has been a ongoing living nightmare.

So they did take it away from the OP, how they got it is immaterial.

Are your eyes painted on, Tisco did not take the vehicle from the OP the wife did.

Tisco are the ones who repossessed. She has given it back, but in spite of the contract being in his name they took it, which they are not allowed to do. So yes, you can start insults, but IMO Tisco took it back.

[Spoonman]

Until the finance is paid out Tisco are part owners of the vehicle so why can they not take it back if the person who is gauranteer on the vehicle hands it in claiming the person has done a runner.

Tisco (being none the wiser and believing the story given ) are most probably grateful they did not have to go down the repo route to get the vehicle back.

would be interesting to know if the wife has destroyed her credit rating though.

[stevenl]

Tisco is not part owner, Tisco is officially the full owner, the OP is the user.

But they have signed a contract, and in the contract the payment conditions are written down. I would be very surprised if one of those conditions is: if Tisco comes in possession of the car keys and there is a 4 days overdue Tisco can without any notification to the lender/car user repossess and sell the car.

But is the OP really only 4 days overdue without any other late payments? Or is the OP maybe even not the official contractor but the (ex) wife? Or has Tisco simply overstepped their bounderies?

[IMHO]

Tisco is not part owner, Tisco is officially the full owner, the OP is the user.

But they have signed a contract, and in the contract the payment conditions are written down. I would be very surprised if one of those conditions is: if Tisco comes in possession of the car keys and there is a 4 days overdue Tisco can without any notification to the lender/car user repossess and sell the car.

But is the OP really only 4 days overdue without any other late payments? Or is the OP maybe even not the official contractor but the (ex) wife? Or has Tisco simply overstepped their bounderies?

Its a tricky one. Imagine you are a Tisco employee.

Some woman comes in with a car, all sets of keys, and a marriage certificate to prove the lender is her husband. She then says her foreigner husband has run away, fallen ill or died, and she is unable to make the repayments, so is handing the car back.... Then you look it up on the computer and see it's 4 days overdue.

What do you do?.......

As for her credit rating and the OP's, there's no way at only 10 months old they will recoup the balance due at auction - so bye bye credit rating for both of them if the OP can't retake possession.

[stevenl]

Tisco is not part owner, Tisco is officially the full owner, the OP is the user.

But they have signed a contract, and in the contract the payment conditions are written down. I would be very surprised if one of those conditions is: if Tisco comes in possession of the car keys and there is a 4 days overdue Tisco can without any notification to the lender/car user repossess and sell the car.

But is the OP really only 4 days overdue without any other late payments? Or is the OP maybe even not the official contractor but the (ex) wife? Or has Tisco simply overstepped their bounderies?

Its a tricky one. Imagine you are a Tisco employee.

Some woman comes in with a car, all sets of keys, and a marriage certificate to prove the lender is her husband. She then says her foreigner husband has run away, fallen ill or died, and she is unable to make the repayments, so is handing the car back.... Then you look it up on the computer and see it's 4 days overdue.

What do you do?.......

As for her credit rating and the OP's, there's no way at only 10 months old they will recoup the balance due at auction - so bye bye credit rating for both of them if the OP can't retake possession.

Not tricky at all, that alone is no reason at all to take possession of the car (plus on the moment of repossession it was not 4 days overdue, that was only the case when he tried to pay. Since 2 weeks passed since his ex took the keys and he tried to pay it is very likely there were no overdue payments at that time.

He may have felt sorry for her, but should still stick to the conditions in the contract.

[Spoonman]

Tisco is not part owner, Tisco is officially the full owner, the OP is the user.

But they have signed a contract, and in the contract the payment conditions are written down. I would be very surprised if one of those conditions is: if Tisco comes in possession of the car keys and there is a 4 days overdue Tisco can without any notification to the lender/car user repossess and sell the car.

But is the OP really only 4 days overdue without any other late payments? Or is the OP maybe even not the official contractor but the (ex) wife? Or has Tisco simply overstepped their bounderies?

Its a tricky one. Imagine you are a Tisco employee.

Some woman comes in with a car, all sets of keys, and a marriage certificate to prove the lender is her husband. She then says her foreigner husband has run away, fallen ill or died, and she is unable to make the repayments, so is handing the car back.... Then you look it up on the computer and see it's 4 days overdue.

What do you do?.......

As for her credit rating and the OP's, there's no way at only 10 months old they will recoup the balance due at auction - so bye bye credit rating for both of them if the OP can't retake possession.

Not tricky at all, that alone is no reason at all to take possession of the car (plus on the moment of repossession it was not 4 days overdue, that was only the case when he tried to pay. Since 2 weeks passed since his ex took the keys and he tried to pay it is very likely there were no overdue payments at that time.

He may have felt sorry for her, but should still stick to the conditions in the contract.

Don't get too concerned about as the OP says he has the book, if that is the case the story with Tisco is nothing but pure fantasy.

[puuchai299]

Where are you O.P ? I'm dying to know the outcome of this story,I hope this book you have is not Jackanory....

[rayinkrabi]

Hi all, All seems good now but first to clear up a few points...the book I referred to was simply the manual / service books (which are needed to order the replacement keys), of course I don't carry the spare key around with me every time I drive..who does? as I said, I entrusted my wife with it when I first took delivery of the car..I reckon its a good idea to keep a spare in a different location that can be called upon if ever needed...yea ok it backfired this time :-)

I should also that as well as taking the police to my wifes house the very next morning of the key snatch, I also called Ford and asked them to inform Tisco of the situation.

All went as planned yesterday morning, I went to Tisco with 2 lawyers, met the manager who apologised saying that they had indeed fallen for my wifes sob story. I was a bit cross with him (but in a controlled way) and explained that I had been a customer of theirs for a long time (my first Isusu was financed there also), never had a problem with late payment etc. and their failure to contact me was inexcusable. In short, their behaviour was very unprofessional, I asked for the car to returned immediately and also for a reassurance this will not happen again.

I'm expecting a call this morning regarding collecting my car so will keep you informed. Btw, the few days 'late payment' was never mentioned and doesn't appear to figure in this at all.

[IMHO]

Glad it worked out for you, without too much hassle. Ex's are always painful

[puuchai299]

Good news,hope all gets sorted for you today.. : )

[WarpSpeed]

Sounds like the advice given early on was spot on, glad to hear it.. Keep us posted, yes I do have a spare key available at all times, most often tie wrapped to the bottom of the car in an obscure place but also one in my wallet as I once had to spend the night in my car to keep it from being stolen as my keys were stolen at an arcade/karting track and the alarm would have allowed them to find my car in the parking lot later and all my paper work inside including home address and could have had my house cleaned out with my own car before I got home that night..

[rayinkrabi]

Good result yesterday, but not before having to put up with a lot more hassle and attempted bullying from tisco. the silly people tried to intimidate me by stating conditions before returning my car..their main 'condition' was that I must get a second garantor. I actually have no problem with this but I took offence at tisco's complacency so politely explained that this will take time and that imo they are in breach of our agreement so if the car is not returned to me today I WILL take this to the court.

It worked :-) I collected my car at 3 p.m. (with both keys), altho the cheeky bstds charged me 1046 baht 'parking fees' :-) :-) , no worries, I'll simply deduct this from wifeys next months allowance. All seems in good condition with only an extra 26 k on the clock...the only down side is my Rayban sunnies have disappeared but thats prob my ex having another go at me.

An interesting p.s. to this story...I sorted my non o retirement extension yesterday and was surprised to be questioned by the immi police about my daughter and car! When I asked how they knew about this they just smiled and said "they know eveything! but as they've known me for many years this isn't a problem" Hmm, seems like my wife was trying everything to drop me in it.....wonder what's next?

Thanks for all your comments and help on this. Ray.

[CharlieH]

Hell hath no wrath etc......good luck for the future Ray, its never easy starting again and complicated further by foriegn environment.

[rayinkrabi]

Thx Charlie, and thx again to all u others for your comments.

Sry if I got your back up Warps, I wasn't trying to 'shoot the messenger' at all, I just didn't get your point straight away and am now warming to the idea of sticking another spare key somewhere on the car. I still don't get your point re the guarantor requirement tho as I understand this is the case for everyone unless a 25% deposit is given? I'm also still unclear if the sponser is indeed able to back out within the first year as u suggest as I've been told otherwise.

I never thought i would say this as I always enjoy and trust IMHO posts but I have to strongly disagree with one point you made re what should a tisco employee do when faced with this scenario...surely the obvious thing is to contact the registered keeper..me. They have all my contact details (mobile number, home and email address etc.) so no excuse there, I reckon this was the main reason my lawyer had a grin on his face from the start as he was adamant of 100% success on this case.

And yes, Steven was spot on about the dates, the police and tisco were made aware of the situation on the 26th (the morning after the key snatch which happened at 5 p.m, (easily confirmed on my dash cam) so tisco's 'argument' that wifey had handed the car back with my consent was clearly rubbish.

All in all, not such a bad outcome altho this leaves me around 10k baht short and more importantly in a pickle as to how and when get to see my daughter again without big hassle...I do know one thing tho..I won't be driving my new truck to my wifes house me thinks a taxi is in order for that.

[IMHO]

Thx Charlie, and thx again to all u others for your comments.

Sry if I got your back up Warps, I wasn't trying to 'shoot the messenger' at all, I just didn't get your point straight away and am now warming to the idea of sticking another spare key somewhere on the car. I still don't get your point re the guarantor requirement tho as I understand this is the case for everyone unless a 25% deposit is given? I'm also still unclear if the sponser is indeed able to back out within the first year as u suggest as I've been told otherwise.

I never thought i would say this as I always enjoy and trust IMHO posts but I have to strongly disagree with one point you made re what should a tisco employee do when faced with this scenario...surely the obvious thing is to contact the registered keeper..me. They have all my contact details (mobile number, home and email address etc.) so no excuse there, I reckon this was the main reason my lawyer had a grin on his face from the start as he was adamant of 100% success on this case.

And yes, Steven was spot on about the dates, the police and tisco were made aware of the situation on the 26th (the morning after the key snatch which happened at 5 p.m, (easily confirmed on my dash cam) so tisco's 'argument' that wifey had handed the car back with my consent was clearly rubbish.

All in all, not such a bad outcome altho this leaves me around 10k baht short and more importantly in a pickle as to how and when get to see my daughter again without big hassle...I do know one thing tho..I won't be driving my new truck to my wifes house me thinks a taxi is in order for that.

I did say they made a mistake I was just trying to 'wear their shoes' and try to understand how such a mistake might have slipped through... Some good theatrics have been known to bend rules before

[meatboy]

your next move file for divorce and get a court order for her to stay well clear.

mind you i would have let tisco send it to auction that would teach her.and move.

good luck.

[WarpSpeed]

Thx Charlie, and thx again to all u others for your comments.

Sry if I got your back up Warps, I wasn't trying to 'shoot the messenger' at all, I just didn't get your point straight away and am now warming to the idea of sticking another spare key somewhere on the car. I still don't get your point re the guarantor requirement tho as I understand this is the case for everyone unless a 25% deposit is given? I'm also still unclear if the sponser is indeed able to back out within the first year as u suggest as I've been told otherwise.

I never thought i would say this as I always enjoy and trust IMHO posts but I have to strongly disagree with one point you made re what should a tisco employee do when faced with this scenario...surely the obvious thing is to contact the registered keeper..me. They have all my contact details (mobile number, home and email address etc.) so no excuse there, I reckon this was the main reason my lawyer had a grin on his face from the start as he was adamant of 100% success on this case.

And yes, Steven was spot on about the dates, the police and tisco were made aware of the situation on the 26th (the morning after the key snatch which happened at 5 p.m, (easily confirmed on my dash cam) so tisco's 'argument' that wifey had handed the car back with my consent was clearly rubbish.

All in all, not such a bad outcome altho this leaves me around 10k baht short and more importantly in a pickle as to how and when get to see my daughter again without big hassle...I do know one thing tho..I won't be driving my new truck to my wifes house me thinks a taxi is in order for that.

Ok at this point there are too many knots twisted into the understanding or misunderstanding as it were for me to try to untie it so I'll just leave it where it sits as you got your issue resolved to your liking so it's really a moot point anyways..

I'd also say though that it seems maybe IMHO's post was taken out of context as well since our posts were very similar in meaning..

[rayinkrabi]

your next move file for divorce and get a court order for her to stay well clear.

mind you i would have let tisco send it to auction that would teach her.and move.

good luck.

Already gone down this road and the local police have made it clear to her she must stay away from my house tho she refuses to divorce at the mo so I guess I may have to wait the 2 or 3 yrs thing to get that. Yep, one of my early considerations was to default, in fact one of the policemen suggested I don't pay the instalments till she returns the car (he also believed tisco wouldn't seriously act until 3 mths) but then I got to thinking...

a) this goes right against the grain with me as I take a pride that I have always paid my dues and kept my nose clean here (and in Blighty),

I'm sure I would have been hassled a lot for the big difference owed and the auction price, I was quoted a mere 450 k by a local tent when it was only 5 mths old, a helluva loss already on the 760 k new price.

c) I also suspect tisco would claim for lots more such as transport, storage, etc.

d) Not sure but given immi's comments the other day it could effect my future visa applications (?)

e) last but certainly not least, I don't want to give wifey a (valid) reason to bad mouth about me to my daughter in future yrs.

Thx for the input tho, all thoughts welcome on this as it may be of help to other members in the future. Cheers, Ray.