Passport as a deposit for a motorcycle

[Tropicalevo]

NEVER let your passport out of your sight. It does not belong to you, it belongs to your government. If the shop has a break in and your passport is lost your in deep doo doo.

I suppose different countries treat their nationals differently, but as a US citizen, my passport is mine. I paid for it, so it is my property. I submitted my soon to expire passport with a renewal application and it was returned to me with my new one. If your passport is lost or stolen, you must pay for a new one at your embassy. You will not be permitted to enter your own country without a passport. You may be prohibited from using air, ground, or sea transportation out of this country without a passport. My passport is a document where my country vouches for my identity and nationality. It does not own it. It can compel me to surrender it pursuant to a court order, but not without due process of law.

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Paying for it and owning it are two different things.

You pay for a hire car. You do not own it.

On a UK passport - section 6 of the notes on page 4 reads "The passport remains the property of Her Majesty's Government.........."

Maybe read the small print and do not assume that money means power?

Just a thought.

[notmyself]

NEVER let your passport out of your sight. It does not belong to you, it belongs to your government. If the shop has a break in and your passport is lost your in deep doo doo.

I suppose different countries treat their nationals differently, but as a US citizen, my passport is mine. I paid for it, so it is my property. I submitted my soon to expire passport with a renewal application and it was returned to me with my new one. If your passport is lost or stolen, you must pay for a new one at your embassy. You will not be permitted to enter your own country without a passport. You may be prohibited from using air, ground, or sea transportation out of this country without a passport. My passport is a document where my country vouches for my identity and nationality. It does not own it. It can compel me to surrender it pursuant to a court order, but not without due process of law.

Sent from my GT-P5113 using Tapatalk 4

Paying for it and owning it are two different things.

You pay for a hire car. You do not own it.

On a UK passport - section 6 of the notes on page 4 reads "The passport remains the property of Her Majesty's Government.........."

Maybe read the small print and do not assume that money means power?

Just a thought.

It's just Wiki but....

United States passports are property of the Department of State.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_passport

[BigC]

I'm renting a motorbike now and when I was taking it from a rental, they asked my to give them my driving license. I did so, although I didn't like giving any documents as a deposit. Now I'm going to rent a motorcycle like Honda cbr250 at other rental. They told me I have to give them my passport. Their rates are good, by the way. But giving them my passport as a deposit is what I am not going to do. I told them I could leave a deposit like 5000 baht, but they did agree.

 

What do I do about: look for other rental or try to work it out? Is it legal for rentals to ask for documents as a deposit?  

Here we go again

If u don't want to leave your passport then either go some where else of leave a deposit the sane amount as a brand new bike

As renters lose a hell of allot of bike to tourists who just crash their bikes then go hone and dump the bike

I suggest getting taxis or renting a car

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[Rooo]

That is correct, the passport is not your property, it belongs to the country issuing it. Wait & see what happens if the person holding it won't return it.

I have known the consulate / embassy get involved & getting it back in a hurry. Because as I said it belongs to the country of issue not you.

You are not allowed to leave it with anyone.

[pokerspiv]

NEVER let your passport out of your sight. It does not belong to you, it belongs to your government. If the shop has a break in and your passport is lost your in deep doo doo.

I suppose different countries treat their nationals differently, but as a US citizen, my passport is mine. I paid for it, so it is my property.

51.7 Passport property of the U.S. Government.

( a ) A passport at all times remains the property of the United States and must be returned to the U.S. Government upon demand.

( B ) Law enforcement authorities who take possession of a passport for use in an investigation or prosecution must return the passport to the Department on completion of the investigation and/or prosecution.

http://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/ilink/docView/22CFR/HTML/22CFR/0-0-0-1/0-0-0-2898/0-0-0-2995.html

Edited November 13, 2013 by PoorSucker

[pokerspiv]

As for carrying it around with you, a friend of mine carries a photograph of the personal info page of his passport on his smart phone, and the police have accepted that as proof of identification when they've asked for it. Also handy for random things like signing up for telephone/cable TV accounts which often ask to show a passport to sign up.

Don't leave your passport with motorcycle rental companies. No form of deposit is necessary. Reputable companies have insurance.

[stiggy]

http://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Travel-g303910-c202027/Koh-Tao:Thailand:Bike.Rental.Scam.In.Koh.Tao.html

Happens all the time unfortunately

[samuijimmy]

^ It happens some times with "sleazy" rental places... best thing is to take photos of any damage, scratches etc on the bike at time of renting ... and use photocopy of passport.

If that is not acceptable, go to the next shop....

[BTempleman]

 

NEVER let your passport out of your sight. It does not belong to you, it belongs to your government. If the shop has a break in and your passport is lost your in deep doo doo.

I suppose different countries treat their nationals differently, but as a US citizen, my passport is mine. I paid for it, so it is my property. I submitted my soon to expire passport with a renewal application and it was returned to me with my new one. If your passport is lost or stolen, you must pay for a new one at your embassy. You will not be permitted to enter your own country without a passport. You may be prohibited from using air, ground, or sea transportation out of this country without a passport. My passport is a document where my country vouches for my identity and nationality. It does not own it. It can compel me to surrender it pursuant to a court order, but not without due process of law.

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Rubbish. Open it and see what it says on the first pages. Perhaps you USA guys have something different but where I come from I did read the pages in my Passport.

 

PS. We all pay for them.

 

My apologies. 6th page in, it states it is US Gov't property, to be surrendered on demand to a duly authorized representative of the US Government.

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[wayned]

Although I don't agree with leaving your passport as collateral for a rental, I can understand why some people require it. When I had a bar i Samui the same group of Brits came every December for New Years. The dominant male always rented a jeep. The last time he was there, the night before his flight home he rolled it but they managed to rite it and then he proceeded to drive it into the sea near the place where he was staying in Maenham. He boarded the flight and went home the next day with the jeep still being lapped by the waves. I don't know what the end result was,but the renter was obviously on the short end. It's a one off case but I can see the renters reluctance to rent without a substantial deposit of which your passport is one.

[starcandle]

Is it legal for rentals to ask for documents as a deposit?

Simple answer, NO...they can have a copy of your passport is all.

And if you get pulled with no driving licence you can get fined for that as well

Do a search in the motorcycle forum, there are lots of horror stories in there about people who handed over their passport

But where do I find the law proving this? Or how do I do a google search for this?

I'd print it out and show them, if they continued asking for my documents I'd say I'd take them to a court. That's what a friend of my did in the Philippines and he made them obey, although he is a foreigner.

They know that this is against the law, you do not need to prove it. They do it so that they can blackmail you to pay whatever they want.

Once they have your passport - you have to pay whatever to get it back. Whether you damage the bike or not. Why should you trust them?

Do not do it.

If you are on Samui there is a company where I can get you a rental bike with no passport - but it's in Choengmon. I will PM the company name to you if you want it. There are honest rental companies around. Just not everywhere.

So,, if a bike rental company want your passport as a deposit,,, does that make them dishonest ?

I do not have a rental Co but if I did there is no way I would rent a bike to anyone without either a deposit to the value of the bike, or their passport.

As you drive around the island and pass a police station just have a quick look at how many motorbikes are being impounded through accidents!!! And they are the ones still to be cleared or claimed,, plentry more have "passed through"

Having lived here 7 years I don't really want to recall the amount of accidents I have witnessed or heard of. There is not a day goes by that I do not see a moron riding like a demon with no helmet and full of ale.

Edited November 13, 2013 by starcandle

[transam]

Although I don't agree with leaving your passport as collateral for a rental, I can understand why some people require it. When I had a bar i Samui the same group of Brits came every December for New Years. The dominant male always rented a jeep. The last time he was there, the night before his flight home he rolled it but they managed to rite it and then he proceeded to drive it into the sea near the place where he was staying in Maenham. He boarded the flight and went home the next day with the jeep still being lapped by the waves. I don't know what the end result was,but the renter was obviously on the short end. It's a one off case but I can see the renters reluctance to rent without a substantial deposit of which your passport is one.

Thats a business risk. The business insurance ''should'' cover all eventualities. .........

[starcandle]

Although I don't agree with leaving your passport as collateral for a rental, I can understand why some people require it. When I had a bar i Samui the same group of Brits came every December for New Years. The dominant male always rented a jeep. The last time he was there, the night before his flight home he rolled it but they managed to rite it and then he proceeded to drive it into the sea near the place where he was staying in Maenham. He boarded the flight and went home the next day with the jeep still being lapped by the waves. I don't know what the end result was,but the renter was obviously on the short end. It's a one off case but I can see the renters reluctance to rent without a substantial deposit of which your passport is one.

Thats a business risk. The business insurance ''should'' cover all eventualities. .........

So is handing over your passport

[BigC]

That is correct, the passport is not your property, it belongs to the country issuing it. Wait & see what happens if the person holding it won't return it.

I have known the consulate / embassy get involved & getting it back in a hurry. Because as I said it belongs to the country of issue not you.

 

You are not allowed to leave it with anyone.

Who gets in trouble the person for handing it over or the person receiving it

Also even if the embassy gets involved in getting it back it still buys the leaser time to catch the run away person who might be wanted by the police at that time if a police report has been made

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[BigC]

Although I don't agree with leaving your passport as collateral for a rental, I can understand why some people require it.  When I had a bar i Samui the same group of Brits came every December for New Years.  The dominant male always rented a jeep.  The last time he was there, the night before his flight home he rolled it but they managed to rite it and then he proceeded to drive it into the sea near the place where he was staying in Maenham.  He boarded the flight and went home the next day with the jeep still being lapped by the waves.  I don't know what the end result was,but the renter was obviously on the short end.  It's a one off case but I can see the renters reluctance to rent without a substantial deposit of which your passport is one.

 

Thats a business risk. The business insurance ''should'' cover all eventualities. .........

 

Demand and supply, business risk is worked out to keep the risk down hence handing ones passport over

The customer always has the choice to not hand it

They can always go to the shop next door who shall probably want the same

Unless a cash deposit the same value as a brand new vehicle

Even inssurence does not cover the cost of time to be fixed and the vehicle loses money due to time cannot be out rented on the road

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[transam]

Although I don't agree with leaving your passport as collateral for a rental, I can understand why some people require it. When I had a bar i Samui the same group of Brits came every December for New Years. The dominant male always rented a jeep. The last time he was there, the night before his flight home he rolled it but they managed to rite it and then he proceeded to drive it into the sea near the place where he was staying in Maenham. He boarded the flight and went home the next day with the jeep still being lapped by the waves. I don't know what the end result was,but the renter was obviously on the short end. It's a one off case but I can see the renters reluctance to rent without a substantial deposit of which your passport is one.

Thats a business risk. The business insurance ''should'' cover all eventualities. .........

Demand and supply, business risk is worked out to keep the risk down hence handing ones passport over

The customer always has the choice to not hand it

They can always go to the shop next door who shall probably want the same

Unless a cash deposit the same value as a brand new vehicle

Even inssurence does not cover the cost of time to be fixed and the vehicle loses money due to time cannot be out rented on the road

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

A business risk which I am sure can be insured against, weeeeeeeeell, where I come from I believe it is.......... ..........

[BigC]

 

 

Although I don't agree with leaving your passport as collateral for a rental, I can understand why some people require it.  When I had a bar i Samui the same group of Brits came every December for New Years.  The dominant male always rented a jeep.  The last time he was there, the night before his flight home he rolled it but they managed to rite it and then he proceeded to drive it into the sea near the place where he was staying in Maenham.  He boarded the flight and went home the next day with the jeep still being lapped by the waves.  I don't know what the end result was,but the renter was obviously on the short end.  It's a one off case but I can see the renters reluctance to rent without a substantial deposit of which your passport is one.

 

Thats a business risk. The business insurance ''should'' cover all eventualities. .........

 

 

Demand and supply, business risk is worked out to keep the risk down hence handing ones passport over

The customer always has the choice to not hand it

They can always go to the shop next door who shall probably want the same

Unless a cash deposit the same value as a brand new vehicle

Even inssurence does not cover the cost of time to be fixed and the vehicle loses money due to time cannot be out rented on the road

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

 

 

A business risk which I am sure can be insured against, weeeeeeeeell, where I come from I believe it is.......... ..........

 

Cannot get inssurence for motor bikes or inssurence that is worth any value

I am surprised that people seem to worry about handing over their passports but are happy to hand over all their credit cars details to hotels and other rental companies

Which can be very dangerous

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[transam]

Credit cards have back up, that is the difference.

Lets get back to basics, your passport does NOT belong to you to bargain with, end of story.

[Tropicalevo]

That is correct, the passport is not your property, it belongs to the country issuing it. Wait & see what happens if the person holding it won't return it.

I have known the consulate / embassy get involved & getting it back in a hurry. Because as I said it belongs to the country of issue not you.

You are not allowed to leave it with anyone.

Who gets in trouble the person for handing it over or the person receiving it

Also even if the embassy gets involved in getting it back it still buys the leaser time to catch the run away person who might be wanted by the police at that time if a police report has been made

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

The named person on the passport is responsible for its safekeeping.

If that person gives it away - it is their fault.

Most Embassy's will not get involved in getting it released from a scooter/car/jet-ski rental company.

[BigC]

 

That is correct, the passport is not your property, it belongs to the country issuing it. Wait & see what happens if the person holding it won't return it.

I have known the consulate / embassy get involved & getting it back in a hurry. Because as I said it belongs to the country of issue not you.

 

You are not allowed to leave it with anyone.

Who gets in trouble the person for handing it over or the person receiving it

Also even if the embassy gets involved in getting it back it still buys the leaser time to catch the run away person who might be wanted by the police at that time if a police report has been made

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

 

 

The named person on the passport is responsible for its safekeeping.

 

If that person gives it away - it is their fault.

 

Most Embassy's will not get involved in getting it released from a scooter/car/jet-ski rental company.

 

I doubt they have the resources they would have to be on call 24\7

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

[pokerspiv]

Cannot get inssurence for motor bikes or inssurence that is worth any value

I am surprised that people seem to worry about handing over their passports but are happy to hand over all their credit cars details to hotels and other rental companies

Which can be very dangerous

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

1. Yes, you can get insurance for motorbikes.

2. Handing over your passport is illegal.

3. Credit cards are insured. If you hand over your credit card and they start ringing up unauthorised charges on it, you are insured for that as are all Mastercard/Visa holders. Mastercard has enough lawyers to sink a battleship, and they either simply won't pay the business that took the fraudulent charges, or they will take them to court, and they will win. Yes, even in Thailand.

Handing over your passport is illegal, but a business refusing to return it is highly illegal, to the point where many foreign governments will send representatives to retrieve it. (Although they usually only do this when your passport has been impounded by police without a court order).

Edited November 13, 2013 by pokerspiv

[dom samui]

Does anybody knows any company renting motorbikes in Samui WITH a real full insurance ? No.?

[PoorSucker]

Does anybody knows any company renting motorbikes in Samui WITH a real full insurance ? No.?

Sure, if you are willing to pay 1500 baht / day for a scooter.

[evadgib]

Does anybody knows any company renting motorbikes in Samui WITH a real full insurance ? No.?

Hence "4 wheels and a roof" @ post #16!

Edited November 13, 2013 by evadgib

[dom samui]

Sure ? So which one ?

Does anybody knows any company renting motorbikes in Samui WITH a real full insurance ? No.?

Sure, if you are willing to pay 1500 baht / day for a scooter.

[MilesofSmiles]

Never give your passport to anybody.

People seem to forget their common-sense in this country sometimes.

I would offer them photocopies of the page with your ID. Be sure to write on the page itself 'only used for blah blah' , so they can't use it to to commit any crimes.

The advice about your situation (up shit creek) if anything goes wrong/turns sour is accurate.

[PoorSucker]

Sure ? So which one ?

You can rent from me, minimum 7 days.

Only need photocopy passport and payment in advance.

[dom samui]

Sure ? So which one ?

You can rent from me, minimum 7 days.

Only need photocopy passport and payment in advance.

Do you have a Real full Insurance for motorbikes ?

If yes im interested .

[pokerspiv]

http://www.locationautomotosamui.com/car-and-motorbike-rental-koh-samui-6.html

[dom samui]

http://www.locationautomotosamui.com/car-and-motorbike-rental-koh-samui-6.html

Ah ah , surely NOT this one for me !!!