Your personal experience re. the meth problem in Thailand ?

[robblok]

Every drug has its downsides many can handle it a few cannot. There is almost no way to see who is using normally so you might be real surprised if you knew.

I am against banning stuff because a minority abuses it.

Weed is harmless much better as alcohol for instance sure there are examples of where it goes wrong but much lower as alcohol. Now hey see it can help against cancer not only as a pain killer but as something that slows it down. In the usa and other places they still give out misinformation because it does not suit their cause.

The war on drugs is lost just regulate it and you loose a lot of crime or just ban alcohol too and see how al those anti drug people respond when their drug of choice is outlawed.

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[MilesofSmiles]

I am against banning stuff because a minority abuses it.

The war on drugs is lost just regulate it and you loose a lot of crime or just ban alcohol too and see how al those anti drug people respond when their drug of choice is outlawed.

Very true. Some people just can't handle their shit.

Some drugs cause real ongoing harm to society.

Targeting users, rather than producers and distributors is also massively damaging to society. It has been proven that targeting users does nothing to fundamentally solve the problem.

I'm told that Thaksin had extra-judicial death squads targeting and killing dealers. So much for the right to a fair trial, but at least he tried something different.

Look up policy of USA, Australia, Uk, Portugal ,Uruguay for yourself.

4years in prison for 1g of salt is ridiculous.

[Andre0720]

I'm involved with the largest drug rehab in Thailand, where I have been going regularly(once a week or more) for the past 9 years.

Ya ba is bad and everywhere at the moment. It does seem to come and go though.

IMHO there is a bigger problem with alcohol as it is legal. The Ya Ba addicts have a lower recidivism rate than the alcoholics. Which is worse? I'd say alcohol by a long shot.

Not everyone gets addicted to Ya Ba - I didn't years ago, when it was called Ya Maa. Not everyone gets addicted to alcohol. It is stupid to make one legal and the other not.

You mean like:

''Hey guys, let's go take a couple of Ya Baa pills and play pool at Dee Dee bar''.

Sounds recreational enough...

[thailiketoo]

There are many meth heads in Washington State. Most of those addicted are American. I wonder why there are not too many Thais Washington State that are addicted?

You wrote, "I don't think many Westerners in Thailand are addicted to crystal meth, so why are so many Thais?" Because not many Westerners live in Thailand mostly Thai people live in Thailand.

Ps. If you want to respond to a post please quote the post. In this case your first post where you wrote, "I do wonder, however, if there is something missing in what Thai culture instils into it's young people right now that makes ya ba fill a need that they have???" was clearly anti Thai as the meth problem is a world wide problem no more common in Thailand than CA or WA.

Look, I may be putting my points in a way that makes you feel that I am anti-Thai, but that's 'your stuff', not mine.

Of course the crystal meth issue is world-wide. I am simply looking for a reason why it is so prevalent in young people in Thailand at the moment.

Ready availability in Thailand doesn't help, however it's readily available in the UK where I come from and there isn't a high proportion of addicts. People I know in the UK say that crystal meth is very expensive there, but it's also very pure, so why isn't everyone getting hooked?

It's possible to be critical of something / someone without being "anti" it.

Moreover, simply asking a question or putting an idea out there for discussion doesn't necessarily mean that is their personal belief. And so what if it is ?

If their belief is wrong, correct them. Rigorously examining ideas and beliefs is healthy, thinking critically, instead of just regurgitating blindly what you're told.

Certain cultures result in very different outcomes for people in them, some cultures are prone to certain problems.

Some aspects of Thai culture really do suck, some are quite nice.

The "anti-thai" crap is a total bore though. Harden up.

There's lots I don't like about the culture (or lack therof) of my home country too.

Addiction Stats from Gov. Sources.

Thailand

• 1.8%
• The Government of Thailand estimates that there are up to 1.2 million addicts.
• http://www.havocscope.com/number-of-methamphetamine-addicts-in-thailand/
• http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/14/world/asia/drug-surge-clouds-myanmar-reform-effort.html?pagewanted=all

USA

• ****Off topic obfuscation comments removed****

RE: What's missing / not instilled in youngsters. (I'm no expert so YMMV)

• Discipline
• Impulse control
• Constructive criticism / Not being able to openly admit & talk about a problem and change.
• The way Thais live purely in the moment without regard for future consequences.

  (there's good aspects to that too!)

Geography plays a part,but people do drugs because they make them feel good.

Meth is rampant in Australia but not in England, now that's a fact. Does that mean that English kids are morally better than Australian kids? Do you understand what I am hinting at?

Should I say, like you did about Thailand?

Some aspects of Australian culture really do suck, some are quite nice.

The "anti-Australian" crap is a total bore though. Harden up.

There's lots I don't like about the culture (or lack therof) of my home country too.

If you want to discuss why yaba is so common in Thai culture as opposed to your home culture we should include a couple of other countries too.

Why no meth in the UK but bad problems in both Australia and the USA? Culture?

[bunnydrops]

Like Neeranam and HardenedSoul, I have to agree that alcohol is the worst drug in the world, defined by number of users and total damage done, both physically and mentally.

I the 80s my best friend became a heroin addict and that was very sad. He later became an alcoholic and once (that I know of) drank his own vomit to get back all the alcohol that he'd 'wasted'!

Would any of you do that?

This is an argument that can go on and on BUT those who have been close to drug addiction and to drug taking in general do know that it's the psyche of the user that it the biggest factor in addiction.

There is no drug in the world to which you will become addicted on the first try if you're not the right type of person. The problem is that some people try heroin/crystal meth/cocaine etc. and find that it is what they have always been looking for. It fills a hole (maybe) and makes them feel like the person they've always dreamt themselves to be. That's very sad but it's less due to the drug than the person.

I don't think all drugs should be legalised.

I do wonder, however, if there is something missing in what Thai culture instils into it's young people right now that makes ya ba fill a need that they have???

By God we can make anything anti Thai can't we. Ya Ba is crystal meth. The United States government reported in 2008 that approximately 13 million people over the age of 12 have used methamphetamine—and 529,000 of those are regular users. In 2007, 4.5% of American high-school seniors and 4.1% of tenth grade students reported using methamphetamine at least once in their life. The Czech Republic, Sweden, Finland, Slovakia and Latvia reported amphetamines and methamphetamine as accounting for between 20% and 60% of those seeking drug abuse treatment.

Well, this is about use in Thailand. But you are correct. When I was back in the states earlier this year I could not help but notice that 80% of the daily police report in the local paper involved meth.

I'm a child of the 60s. I tried everything from weed, to LSD, peyote, seconals, opium, to meth. Slow Gin to Bacarti 151My opinion--- meth is the worse thing you can do to yourself .

[thailiketoo]

I want to apologize to the OP. I didn't write my personal experiences. So here they are. All the Thai people I knew who used ya ba were women. They took it to stay slim to make more money while they danced because guys tip skinny dancers better. The bought the drug from the manager of the club and the supply came by motorcycle taxi drivers. The manager momma san sold the drug to keep her dancers slim and make some extra cash for herself. There is plus and minus about yabba'd up go go dancers. Chances are you aren't going to buy them a house. Hang with them for a while and you meet a whole new class of people.

[bunnydrops]

I am not sure about the local problem. Rumor has it that there was a guy selling to the kids at the school. Did this for a couple of years. It seems everyone local knew him and what he was doing, figured he paid off the cops. One day he left town in a hurry because he was sure he was going to be arrested. I figured he didn't pay off high enough up the ladder, but high enough to get warned of pending doom.

Edited November 14, 2013 by bunnydrops

[robblok]

I want to apologize to the OP.  I didn't write my personal experiences.  So here they are.  All the Thai people I knew who used ya ba were women.  They took it to stay slim to make more money while they danced because guys tip skinny dancers better.  The bought the drug from the manager of the club and the supply came by motorcycle taxi drivers.  The manager momma san sold the drug to keep her dancers slim and make some extra cash for herself.  There is plus and minus about yabba'd up go go dancers.  Chances are you aren't going to buy them a house.  Hang with them for a while and you meet a whole new class of people. 

That is for sure nothing kills appetite better as yabaa. If they can ever isolate that property of the drug obesity isnhistory.

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[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed or edited. This topic is about the meth problem in Thailand, let's keep the discussion to that and not drag the USA/Australia etc into this discussion.

[10Yen]

ban alcohol too and see how al those anti drug people respond when their drug of choice is outlawed.

Exactly.

[meom]

I am friendly with a freelancer who used yaba. She claims to be clean now, but even though she is not manifestly a junkie - as a matter of fact, she looks very good and quite a bit younger than her actual age - I have my doubts. I don't know any surefire "tells" when a person is on yaba.

Most of them smoke it out of a home made waterpipe.

Go through her bag and if you come across a small glas tube, some straws and a few lighters with at least one of them without cap she's probably still using because these are the items you need to make a decent waterpipe.

If 7-11 stopped giving away so many straws and selling lighters a lot of harm could be prevented.

[MrWorldwide]

As metisdead pointed out, we need to keep this discussion focussed on the problem in Thailand - we know its a problem elsewhere, and I may have taken it down that path. Onward and upward.

@thailiketoo, I guess when I think about it I havent met too many go-go dancers - I refuse to pay their drink prices - but I've met my share of bargirls (in different countries, but mostly in Thailand) and to date none has displayed the extreme aggression I keep reading about, at least toward me. I've seen girls fight but - touch wood - no fatalities. One of the clubs in Jakarta had 3 people stabbed to death in a single night and they still opened for business the following night - its a whole other world.

[PEP]

Probably a bit late in the day for a reply?

I agree with all of the previous posters but, here in a small village in rural issan, where apart from the few weeks of work rice planting/cutting, there is nothing to occupy the local youth. No hard facts but I have been told by some admitted users that all young people in the village use Ya Ba, Lo Cal or Glue Sniffing. Police come every month or so for the purple Pi** test and nab two or three unfortunates who have not been pre warned. 10,000 baht or 45 days for first offence, reduced by half if you name two other users.

Now a question which can be debated:-

Confined to Thailand; What would be the effect on the Thai Economy if by some magical reason the use of drugs (Top of the Chain to the Bottom) was eliminated? Users , dealers, the "big" guys, the law makers and pathetic enforcers, ETC. ETC. Even the gaol population is over 70 % drug related inmates and supplyers/users.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts have been removed or edited. This topic is about the meth problem in Thailand, let's keep the discussion to that and not drag the USA/Australia etc into this discussion.

Some more off topic posts have been removed.

[Jasun]

There has been a lot of comparison between meth and alcohol. I would contend that for every 10 alcohol drinkers there would be 1 addict/alcoholic. But for every 10 meth smokers, there are 9 addicts.

[robblok]

There has been a lot of comparison between meth and alcohol. I would contend that for every 10 alcohol drinkers there would be 1 addict/alcoholic. But for every 10 meth smokers, there are 9 addicts. 

 

 

Simply not true if yabaa is meth. Else the problems would be massive here if every user turned addict but please dont let the facts get into the way of a good story.

Also what is an addict ? Someone who will use again ? If so almost everyone drinking would be an addict.

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[meom]

As metisdead pointed out, we need to keep this discussion focussed on the problem in Thailand - we know its a problem elsewhere, and I may have taken it down that path. Onward and upward.

@thailiketoo, I guess when I think about it I havent met too many go-go dancers - I refuse to pay their drink prices - but I've met my share of bargirls (in different countries, but mostly in Thailand) and to date none has displayed the extreme aggression I keep reading about, at least toward me. I've seen girls fight but - touch wood - no fatalities. One of the clubs in Jakarta had 3 people stabbed to death in a single night and they still opened for business the following night - its a whole other world.

Plenty of aggression in Thailand though.

Sure it’s not all related to meth but a lot of it is.

It’s one of the down sides that can linger on quite some time after actual usage and when pushed the wrong way people often display a type of aggression that’s completely out of proportion.

[FiftyTwo]

As metisdead pointed out, we need to keep this discussion focussed on the problem in Thailand - we know its a problem elsewhere, and I may have taken it down that path. Onward and upward.

@thailiketoo, I guess when I think about it I havent met too many go-go dancers - I refuse to pay their drink prices - but I've met my share of bargirls (in different countries, but mostly in Thailand) and to date none has displayed the extreme aggression I keep reading about, at least toward me. I've seen girls fight but - touch wood - no fatalities. One of the clubs in Jakarta had 3 people stabbed to death in a single night and they still opened for business the following night - its a whole other world.

Plenty of aggression in Thailand though.

Sure its not all related to meth but a lot of it is.

Its one of the down sides that can linger on quite some time after actual usage and when pushed the wrong way people often display a type of aggression thats completely out of proportion.

Violent mood swings and extreme aggression are the symptoms, they can go on for years after the user has stopped taking, if not forever.

[TheyCallmeScooter]

I notice that the OP in a couple of his posts in the topic has referred to alcohol doing the most damage in Asia. From this viewpoint, he has obviously no idea of what this drug is capable off.

I now just wait to the 'legalize drug' fraternity of TV to come in defense of it............

But Sir, I fear there has been a misunderstanding. Meth-amphetamine is Prohibited in Thailand. Not 'prohibited' like yaba (believed to be amphetamine [speed], caffeine, salt, household cleaning products, distilled cold medicines and lithium from camera batteries combined with other additives and pollutants) or ice (a toxic street poison of unknown chemical properties sold by criminals as 'meth'). Meth-amphetamine is completely blockaded and unavailable in Thailand despite being indicated by the US FDA as safe for the treatment of children with ADHD. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphetamine:

Medical use

Methamphetamine is sold under the name Desoxyn, trademarked by the Danish pharmaceutical company Lundbeck.^[15] As of January 2013, the Desoxyn trademark had been sold to Italian pharmaceutical company Recordati.^[14]In United States, Methamphetamine has been approved by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) in treating ADHD and exogenous obesity (obesity originating from factors outside of the patient's control) in both adults and children.^[14]

I don't know what drug you're referring to but it's not meth-amphetamine. USAF pilots are not allowed to fly unless they're dosed on meth-amphetamine. I don't think the FDA would be indicating it as safe for children if meth-amphetamine was the toxic poison you've mistaken for regulated Desoxyn (which apparently isn't even habit-forming under physician guidance).

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2010/11/drugs_cause_most_harm

[meom]

^

Desoxyn is rarely prescribed for ADHD nowadays and is mostly replaced by Adderall and other medicines.

Regarding US pilots I believe it's dextroamphetamine (so called go pills) that they're using or modifinil both of which are different from methamphetamine.

[connda]

@TheyCallmeScooter

Nice post. I like the chart. Alcohol is a major problem. Especially with aggression. However, I've know Meth users (tweekers) in the past. Paranoia and then aggression is a major problem. Long term users simply go psychotic when they dose heavily. Not nice people to be around, but then again, neither are drunks. Scary and unpredictable. But tweekers more so. I'm trying to figure out how cannabis users do harm to others: Driving too slowly? Maybe. Distracted? Maybe. I've never seen a pothead in a rage though. Not once. Mellow? Hungry? Yeah. Rage? No. Smoking pot isn't good for you though for the same reason cigarettes aren't good for you. Should be legal. I'd rather deal with a pothead than a drunk. I don't want to be around tweekers at all.

Now - in Thailand? Yaba is a problem in our village, probably like many villages. It's dosed both orally and is smoked. Why? Get's ya up - makes you feel good. Think about it. Teenagers with nothing to look forward to other than a life of manual labor. The choice of drugs with older villagers who are the backbone of the agrarian labor force is alcohol. But the younger crowd -- yaba. My guess is that those ingesting it orally probably can maintain a job. Those smoking it are a problem -- to everybody!

There are some drugs that people are better off never even trying, but dosing has a lot to do with it too. The difference between oral ingestion and smoking is huge. I told my own kid: never smoke cocaine; never smoke meth; never put a needle in your arm regardless of the drug. Other than that, be cautious and use your common sense. Don't get hooked on anything. Well, maybe with the exception of exercise: create your own endorphins.

[MJP]

OP: For all the hysteria, the drug I've seen do the most damage in Asia is invariably alcohol.

I agree with the OP. Lao Khao is the number one dangerous drug here. Yabba doesn't seem at all as prevalent as white whiskey which is had for breakfast by many here.

[connda]

OP: For all the hysteria, the drug I've seen do the most damage in Asia is invariably alcohol.

I agree with the OP. Lao Khao is the number one dangerous drug here. Yabba doesn't seem at all as prevalent as white whiskey which is had for breakfast by many here.

Yaba is not as prevalent because, compared to Lao Khao, it's prohibitively expensive -- well, if your an honest person.

Which is why it's a problem with the teenagers...they don't support their habit by working in the rice fields. They need a better income stream -- i.e., theft, robbery, and other not-so-legal acts. And that's why yaba is a freaking problem, hence the hysteria.

[simple1]

YaBa in Thailand does comprise of meth and other ingredients. The main ingredient in cold tablets is ephedrine/pseudoephedrine that are a precursor for the manufacture of meth; why do you think the Thai government has banned cold tablets from general sale? Billions of cold tablets were fraudulently imported into Thailand for shipping to the manufacturers of YaBa. In an earlier post I used the term 'ramifications' regarding YaBa, one of which is the corruption with hospital professionals here in Thailand who were ordering & then on selling very large quantities to the gangs for the manufacture of YaBa.

An example media report covering this at:

http://www.asiasentinel.com/society/massive-drug-smuggling-in-thailand/

[geronimo]

Every drug has its downsides many can handle it a few cannot. There is almost no way to see who is using normally so you might be real surprised if you knew.

I am against banning stuff because a minority abuses it.

Weed is harmless much better as alcohol for instance sure there are examples of where it goes wrong but much lower as alcohol. Now hey see it can help against cancer not only as a pain killer but as something that slows it down. In the usa and other places they still give out misinformation because it does not suit their cause.

The war on drugs is lost just regulate it and you loose a lot of crime or just ban alcohol too and see how al those anti drug people respond when their drug of choice is outlawed.

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I've been a weed smoker for forty years and I'm living proof that long term use does not harm you. I tried them all in my time (including Ice) and yes, alcohol has a lot to answer for. All the times I've fxcked up, alcohol has been the root cause, so I choose to avoid that one.

BTW For those who ;picture some guy who is a couch potato, I am very active and very productive and manage my life with wise consideration.

[AYJAYDEE]

Every drug has its downsides many can handle it a few cannot. There is almost no way to see who is using normally so you might be real surprised if you knew.

I am against banning stuff because a minority abuses it.

Weed is harmless much better as alcohol for instance sure there are examples of where it goes wrong but much lower as alcohol. Now hey see it can help against cancer not only as a pain killer but as something that slows it down. In the usa and other places they still give out misinformation because it does not suit their cause.

The war on drugs is lost just regulate it and you loose a lot of crime or just ban alcohol too and see how al those anti drug people respond when their drug of choice is outlawed.

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I've been a weed smoker for forty years and I'm living proof that long term use does not harm you. I tried them all in my time (including Ice) and yes, alcohol has a lot to answer for. All the times I've fxcked up, alcohol has been the root cause, so I choose to avoid that one.

BTW For those who ;picture some guy who is a couch potato, I am very active and very productive and manage my life with wise consideration.

that doesnt prove it didnt harm you .you might have been even more productive and wise

[robblok]

Every drug has its downsides many can handle it a few cannot. There is almost no way to see who is using normally so you might be real surprised if you knew.

I am against banning stuff because a minority abuses it.

Weed is harmless much better as alcohol for instance sure there are examples of where it goes wrong but much lower as alcohol. Now hey see it can help against cancer not only as a pain killer but as something that slows it down. In the usa and other places they still give out misinformation because it does not suit their cause.

The war on drugs is lost just regulate it and you loose a lot of crime or just ban alcohol too and see how al those anti drug people respond when their drug of choice is outlawed.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

I've been a weed smoker for forty years and I'm living proof that long term use does not harm you. I tried them all in my time (including Ice) and yes, alcohol has a lot to answer for. All the times I've fxcked up, alcohol has been the root cause, so I choose to avoid that one.

 

BTW For those who ;picture some guy who is a couch potato, I am very active and very productive and manage my life with wise consideration.

I seen your fishing pics you are no couch potato. Anyway i seen many ppl using drugs and having a normal life, moderation is the key. If you think drugs damage you think about your brain and liver after a good night on the alcohol, and for many that is done more then weekly.

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[AdamBangkok]

Interesting 4 minute clip here on heroin addiction.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9huWlXFA1s

Seems to pretty much hit the nail on the head.

[arthurwait]

One of the women who used to rent the restaurant space, one day her daughter (addicted to it) demanded money off her, She either didn't give her any or enough so the daughter slashed her face with a knife.