Expensive, custom-made louvre windows/doors don't fit! - What to do?

[simon43]

For my latest mini-hotel project, I am using hardwood, louvre windows and doors. This costs about 20,000 baht per guest-room.

Last week, I ordered enough doors and windows for the first 3 rooms, and paid a 50% deposit. I discussed my requirements with the shop owner, which were basically to make pairs of narrow windows and doors, and to fit them into a hardwood frame. Each pair of windows/doors would close at the centre with a slight overlap (there being no centre vertical frame). So the side of each door/window needed to be machined accordingly. I also asked for a slight recess to be routed into each item, to allow me to fit a mosquito mesh.

All the windows arrived today, (the doors will come tomorrow). At first sight, everything looked great and the delivery driver departed.

But on closer examination, I was horrified to find that the width of each window was not the same, with as much as 1cm difference. The heights were also not the same.

Even worse, none of the windows actually fitted into the frames! They were all too big in both x and y axis. It seems that I am expected to saw off the sides of each window to make them fit, even though I specifically ordered frames to fit each pair of windows. It seems to be that this company has made windows and frames and never checked the fit if each item.

The driver will return tomorrow with the louvre doors and I expect to see the same dimensioning problem.

What to do? My initial reaction was to make sure that the shop owner is never able to father kids again! What a terrible piece of workmanship on a fine piece of wood.

This shop has clearly lost out on future orders from me of more than $4,000 for my other guest-rooms. But what are my options right now?

Obviously, I'd like the shop to fix the problem. To fix it 100% would mean completely making new windows, and I am 99% sure that the shop (which BTW is a well-known wood-working shop in Phuket Town), will tell me to go take a running jump...

In any case, my project build is now delayed and workers idle because of this problem.

When I ordered these items, I explained everything clearly in Thai and the shop owner understood my needs and made drawings with all the correct dimensions.

Is there any legal persuasion that I can use, such as complaining to the consumer protection department that I know is located in the town.

Perhaps a high-level complaint directly to the Governor??

Sensible suggestions are welcome

Simon

Edited November 13, 2013 by simon43

[EBlair48]

Well S-43 I can't say which is worse, wanting to castrate a man over shoddy work , or using a bit of bad language when a teenager has rammed your car from carelessness and the tow truck is about to ruin your transmission . But you know what, you have my sympathy, I hope you get some relief and aren't threatened if you refuse to pay the remainder.

If you , are give me a pm and we can do a throw momma from the train thing .

[LivinginKata]

Best of luck. Unlikely you will get any compensation.

Call the Gov - are you dreaming. Get real.

[N47HAN]

Just made my day...

Just sayin ....

[Pomthai]

I'd be buying a power saw and spoke shave and making them windows fit the best I could. At least they're oversize.

I assume you were kidding about the governor - if ya weren't then fitting windows is the least of worries.

It's certainly worth discussion with the shop that made them and handled diplomatically you might get rectification done but complete new ones highly unlikely.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Pomthai

[NamKangMan]

I don't envy your position in this situation. I think you will be left holding "the can" on this one.

[NamKangMan]

I'd be buying a power saw and spoke shave and making them windows fit the best I could. At least they're oversize.

I assume you were kidding about the governor - if ya weren't then fitting windows is the least of worries.

It's certainly worth discussion with the shop that made them and handled diplomatically you might get rectification done but complete new ones highly unlikely.

I thought about that, but it depends on how much "frame" you have to play with, whilst still maintaining strength, and an ability to be hinged and hold the weight of the glass.

[N47HAN]

This has just made my day ....

Just sayin ........

[LivinginKata]

He says 'up to 1 cm' and 'all too big'

Should be an easy enough job to use a shaving planer tool. That would be my initial solution but clearly we readers have no idea if this is practical.

[NamKangMan]

This has just made my day ....

Just sayin ........

Well, you've said it twice now. Can you tell us why this has made your day?

[N47HAN]

Ahem.........

I happen to make windows that fit

But not in wood unfortunately .

[simon43]

On closer examination, whilst the height of the doors is too large for the frames, (and that can be rectified by the shop using a decent, large-wheel circular saw), the reason for the width problem is because the shop has forgotten to rout the windows where they meet in the middle to allow them to close correctly whilst overlapping each other. (I can't think of the technical name for what I mean, but it is easily rectified by the shop).

Why the manufacture of the width varies up to 1cm is beyond me - I assume the shop owner is employing monkeys to do his work.

These problems are easily resolved by the shop with their power tools, but not so easily (or neatly) by me. So we'll ambush the delivery driver tomorrow and have a diplomatic chat with his boss...)

Simon

Edited November 13, 2013 by simon43

[hansgruber]

If its wood they can be altered. Don't stress.

Too big is way better than too small and a wood plane will get it right.

[andreandre]

If its wood they can be altered. Don't stress.

Too big is way better than too small and a wood plane will get it right.

Way beyond what a mere planing can do...a router is needed or old school saw and chisel work....

I don't understand why the doors and windows weren't hung [hinged] to the frames...maybe you were planning to get your workers to do this??

If you had instructed such from the factory, it would should have been right.

The doors/windows would have been hung and the correct clearances where each pair meet on closing without binding would have been achieved both on the top/bottoms and at the meeting of the pairs in middle.

Edited November 13, 2013 by andreandre

[cornishcarlos]

Why don't you talk to the shop owner 1st ???

Maybe someone else ordered exactly the same windows but 1cm bigger and the shop mixed up the delivery

Probably not hey...

Talk to the owner before seeking advice on here..

[malcolminthemiddle]

Invite the shop Owner to give you a price to install the windows and doors he made.

[fiddlehead]

Yes, I would try being nice first, and maybe tell him there might be more work ($) for him if he can help figure out the best way to install them now that they were made too big.
Too big usually better than too small .

ps pictures might help us to determine how to fix your problem.

[simon43]

Rebate is the word that I was looking for. (I mean 'rebate' as in wood-working terms, not as in refund/discount).

In the cold light of day, the work needed to correct these errors is not great. But I'm amazed that an established shop can produce such careless work from an expensive piece of wood.....

If the shop won't play nicely, then they get no more orders for the other guest-rooms AND I won't pay the balance due on the items that they have made, (since they have not provovided what I ordered)

Malcolm - I like your idea of asking the shop to install these windows and doors!

If necessary, I'll buy a router to cut the rebate, and a circular saw to cut top and bottom of the doors, and possibly top and bottom of the shop-owner

I don't have to deal with the shop-owner and driver today. My Thai family have told me to stay in the background and they will take care of everything, which is why I'm worried about topping and tailing the shop-owner.....

Simon

[stevehaigh]

maybe i didn't read the long post completely and correctly but:

wood windows and doors are always made about 1cm bigger than the frame so they can be planed down to fit neatly

whoever puts hinges, handles and locks on will usually fit them to the frame on site

[nedkellylives]

Should have got a quote to supply and install then you would not have a problem, they should have qualified installers

[keestha]

I don't have to deal with the shop-owner and driver today. My Thai family have told me to stay in the background and they will take care of everything

Right. They will tell the shop-owner he did a terrific job, but they need a bit of additional help, and then he will try to solve the problem. Navigating should be done cautiously in a culture where it is a no-no to criticize people.

[ignis]

Sorry cannot see the problem, here the doors/windows are always a little bigger then the frames... sure 1st time I bought a small wood door and frame was the same, home pro visit and an electric planer sorted that out, windows the same, thank goodness for my electric planer..

I did ask one workshop why..... simple and up to a point common sense reply.... frames are fitted and maybe not 100% true or straight, therefore the fitter/carpenter then planes the windows/doors to fit the frames...

Have replaced a number of windows and door since my house was built 10 years ago, have found this is true when I use a square on the frames..

So yes had you wanted the doors/windows to fit the frames when fitted you should have asked for them to install

Edit: the plastic or UPVC one if you buy with frame fit 100% = need to be fitted 100% true and square......... just out of interest I bought a 1 m long spirit level years ago...... somehow things just did not appear level...... later tried in a couple of shops, laying all the levels on the floor, not one was the same or showed that the shop floor was level.. little wonder most things here are not 100% square...... myself gone back to the old school [Grandfathers ways ways of 50+ years ago], clear pipe filled with water..

Edited November 14, 2013 by ignis

[andreandre]

@ stevehaigh ,....ignis..yes correct if you are buying ''off the shelf'' windows and frames...they are indeed made to be altered to fit as per your requirements...but OP didn't buy ''off the shelf''..he requested doors and windows made and fitted..

From OP;

I discussed my requirements with the shop owner, which were basically to make pairs of narrow windows and doors, and to fit them into a hardwood frame.

The company is at fault IMO for not supplying as requested.

Good luck with that one

[nedkellylives]

@ stevehaigh ,....ignis..yes correct if you are buying ''off the shelf'' windows and frames...they are indeed made to be altered to fit as per your requirements...but OP didn't buy ''off the shelf''..he requested doors and windows made and fitted..

From OP;

I discussed my requirements with the shop owner, which were basically to make pairs of narrow windows and doors, and to fit them into a hardwood frame.

The company is at fault IMO for not supplying as requested.

Good luck with that one

The OP supplied the measurements not the company, with wood doors and windows oversize would not be a problem if the company fitted them

The would fit them on site, only undersize would be a problem, Cheap labours if they had the nessacary tools would have no problem fitting them

if they have done it before

[ThaidDown]

^^^ As above the OP said he asked a company for the windows to be 'made and fitted'. They have been made and supplied but what about the fitting? Have they refused to do it?

If it was the intention to have his own workers fit them then the final sizing would be done on site as it is highly unlikely that all the pre installed wooden frames are exactly the same size and truly square.

Its not the same as when a premade aluminium or pvc window and frame set is supplied for fitting.

[simon43]

in a culture where it is a no-no to criticize people

That is a fallacy perpetuated by ignorant people. Whilst it may not be unwise for a foreigner to driticise a Thai person, it is certainly not a problem for a Thai person to 'lay into' someone verbally when they've screwed up - especially when they have been paid good money. (The exception being if the accusee is drunk or on drugs).

My Thai family have heavily cirticised lazy workers and shoddy workmanship on many occasions, and they (my family) still have 2 legs and 2 arms....

The order was for the various windows and doors, FITTED to the frames (not done) and with rebates (not done) and a recess for mosquito mesh (not done).

But we'll keep it polite to start with and give the shop the opportunity to rectify their work. If they refuse, then we'll check our drills and angle grinders and go from there

The

[andreandre]

in a culture where it is a no-no to criticize people

That is a fallacy perpetuated by ignorant people. Whilst it may not be unwise for a foreigner to driticise a Thai person, it is certainly not a problem for a Thai person to 'lay into' someone verbally when they've screwed up - especially when they have been paid good money. (The exception being if the accusee is drunk or on drugs).

My Thai family have heavily cirticised lazy workers and shoddy workmanship on many occasions, and they (my family) still have 2 legs and 2 arms....

The order was for the various windows and doors, FITTED to the frames (not done) and with rebates (not done) and a recess for mosquito mesh (not done).

But we'll keep it polite to start with and give the shop the opportunity to rectify their work. If they refuse, then we'll check our drills and angle grinders and go from there

The

The order was for the various windows and doors, FITTED to the frames (not done) and with rebates (not done)

Yes ,as i presumed...that's why you had them 'custom made' as against buying 'off the shelf'....the supplier should have had them delivered to you as a complete unit ready to install in the wall openings ...ie windows/doors sized to fit and hung and ready to operate when you got them.

You should have had to do no more than to nail/screw the complete units into your rooms.

They are at fault for sure, and a reputable company should have no issues in rectifying this...but TIT.......

Good luck.

[simon43]

OK, my ex has spoken to the company and they will come tomorrow, take away all windows and frames, and 'fit' them as I requested, including the rebate.

So hopefully this will be all sorted in a few days and our power tools can be used for the purpose intended

Simon

[phuketjock]

in a culture where it is a no-no to criticize people

That is a fallacy perpetuated by ignorant people. Whilst it may not be unwise for a foreigner to driticise a Thai person, it is certainly not a problem for a Thai person to 'lay into' someone verbally when they've screwed up - especially when they have been paid good money. (The exception being if the accusee is drunk or on drugs).

My Thai family have heavily cirticised lazy workers and shoddy workmanship on many occasions, and they (my family) still have 2 legs and 2 arms....

The order was for the various windows and doors, FITTED to the frames (not done) and with rebates (not done) and a recess for mosquito mesh (not done).

But we'll keep it polite to start with and give the shop the opportunity to rectify their work. If they refuse, then we'll check our drills and angle grinders and go from there

The

I am at a loss as to why you have wound yourself into a frenzie over nothing, let the guy finish the job

IAW the contract and if it is not done properly then you have grounds for complaint, until then you really

don't have anything to legitimately gripe about. It has been my experience when Thais come to fit windows

and/or doors sizing and fitting is always done on site.

Calm down mate you will give yourself a heart attack!!!!

Are you sure you are up to the stress of running a hotel??

[phuketjock]

OK, my ex has spoken to the company and they will come tomorrow, take away all windows and frames, and 'fit' them as I requested, including the rebate.

So hopefully this will be all sorted in a few days and our power tools can be used for the purpose intended

Simon

Well done Simon so when the windows and doors come fitted and the door and window frames don't fit your

door and window openings, what then, at least if you had let the guy come you would have had some say/input,

now you will have to accept whatever arrives, bad move IMO.