Why does Buddhism in Thailand have such greed for money?

[mimi9000]

It is unfortunate that a large percent of Thai people know little to nothing about Buddhism. A couple hours of reading about Buddhism conformed my suspicions a couple months after I arrived here.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Are you saying you know more about Buddhism than the Buddhists and that you gained this knowledge by reading a few books - in English no doubt???

Read carefully what i wrote. Don't presume you read about anything i didn't write. I said nothing about how many years i've lived here or any other matters. I didn't even say anything about "Buddhists" as you are saying. I said something about Thai people, and about Buddhism. Inherent to this topic is likely a broad and diffuse discrepancy about what makes a person a Buddhist, considering that such people who think they are Buddhist might not be informed enough about Buddhism to

comply with the core roots of Buddha 2500 years ago. Many Thai people just grow up here and follow whatever tradition, and even superstitions that somebody along the decades and centuries decided to deviate onto. Many of these people's beliefs have no designated relation to Buddhism. They just think it is because it's how they grew up. Education here is not like developed countries. And to think how dumb we are to believe certain things as we grow up in a developed nation, only to later discover by our own intelligent curiousity that much of it was bull.

[nidieunimaitre]

I understand what the OP is saying; however, Thais or Buddhists don't have a monopoly on greed. I'm from the US and I have personally witnessed plenty of non Buddhists line up at the trough (greedy pig reference) and seek unjust enrichment with not an ounce of shame.

Of course you are right.

Thais or buddhist do not have the monopoly on greed.

Greed is universal.

Civilisation is just a thin layer of paint.

That gives us 2 choices.

1/ accept greed, racism, violence, religion, etc - because "it is human nature".

2/ try to contribute to a better society, from a humanist - atheist point of view.

[silent]

they learned from the Catholic church !

I am the last one to defend the catholic church, but please explain how the catholics taught the thai budhists.

Easy. They taught that you can bend the rules to do what you want, just as long as you go to something called a confessional and secretly admit to it. What more proof do you need?

[nidieunimaitre]

If you want to know more about Thai Buddhism, you should learn Thai language. Thai people can't explain you because of their english skill.

If you want to know more about Thai buddhism.

https://www.facebook.com/v.vajiramedhi?ref=ts&fref=ts

Please!!!

My wife's son became a 'buddhist' monk some time ago.

His big accomplishment was reading out a text in the wat, for all the family, friends, and local 'buddhists'.

The text was in some ancient language, that he or anybody else could not understand.

To me it was latin, if you understand what I mean....

[humqdpf]

With the exception of living under the Taliban or possibly in Saudi Arabia, no priest or monk is going to both alienate and put down their parishioners by telling them not to donate or to behave in a different way. In comparison with some other religions, the Thai Buddhists and their monks actually act rather properly and appear in a good light.

In the religion I was raised, the Catholic Church in Ireland, we had priests and bishops who had girlfriends and fathered children, we had pedophiles priests who were sheltered by the church, not to mention the Magdalen Laundries (google them if you are interested) and the child labour orphanages. But, you might say, that was in the past! It has all changed now! Really! what about the bishop in Germany in 2013 who spent millions on his palace? What about the Vatican with its millions and the allegations regarding the bank? And the allegations that the Vatican covered up for pedophile priests? And the religious orders who hid their money offshore rather than pay compensation? Some of these religious orders lived rather well, despite their vow of poverty.

That is not to say that there are not some really great Catholic priests and nuns who are tolerant, not greedy, who treat people well and who obey the rules concerning their avowed way of life - there are. Just as there are many Buddhist monks in Thailand who do the same.

[nidieunimaitre]

they learned from the Catholic church !

I am the last one to defend the catholic church, but please explain how the catholics taught the thai budhists.

Easy. They taught that you can bend the rules to do what you want, just as long as you go to something called a confessional and secretly admit to it. What more proof do you need?

I fully agree with your criticism of the catholic church.

Now take a deep breath.

And tell me... how, when did the catholics teach the thais?

Mind you, I am patient with you, after all you have the makings of afuture humanist- atheist, and such people are in short supply.

Meanwhile, try to shake off 'the white man's burdon.

[nidieunimaitre]

they learned from the Catholic church !

I am the last one to defend the catholic church, but please explain how the catholics taught the thai budhists.

Easy. They taught that you can bend the rules to do what you want, just as long as you go to something called a confessional and secretly admit to it. What more proof do you need?

I fully agree with your criticism of the catholic church.

Now take a deep breath.

And tell me... how, when did the catholics teach the thais?

Mind you, I am patient with you, after all you have the makings of afuture humanist- atheist, and such people are in short supply.

Meanwhile, try to shake off 'the white man's burdon.

[camerata]

Some off-topic posts have been deleted. Let's stay on the topic of greed in Thai Buddhism.

[camerata]

I don't know about all the folks making posts but somethings I do know. Almost every Wat I've visited (and thats many) runs the local pre-school. Some of them run the local 2nd schools also (my son is in one) At least 4 Wats local to me administer villages clean water supplies. I personally know 8 poor Thai rice farmers that have either been given rice seed and/or cash loans by the local Wat interest free. In past days the Wat did (and some still do) the local birth and death statistics for the Tambon. Almost every Wat I've been to acts as the local funeral parlor. I have personally slept in Wat's and have taken many broke Expats to them for temporary lodging and meals. As a safety net for Thai society they do a very good job. I do have problems with the way Buddhism is practised here but it appears to me that they do an awful lot behind the scenes that most expats don't observe.

At last, a balanced perspective.

[dao16]

I don't see it much differently from religions in other places I have lived (or where I came from!). When you see the monks behaving properly, they shouldn't be out there asking for money. People give it. They want to. The money trees are made by regular people and the monks shouldn't be along with that (have never seen it, and have been told by my wife that if I do, that is a bad monk or not a real one).

As far as work on temple grounds goes, I have never heard of that being against the rules. The novices (remember, they have various levels, etc.) and others are out there cutting the grass, repairing things, and so on. I don't see anything wrong with that and no one has told me about that (correct me if I am wrong, but I just haven't heard that, unlike asking for food or money, which Thais have always told me is wrong).

I have met several amazing monks here who are great people, as I have met christians and (SHOCK) muslims who are very peaceful, wise people. That said, a lot gets corrupted as things get bigger, so it doesn't surprise me to see junk from time to time. Some muslims incite people to do horrible things, some christians do that and like to take money from people, some hindus go nuts about castes and other junk and some buddhists are corrupt.

I am not a religious person, but I don't see Thai buddhism as being worse than any other religion on earth. Heck, in Europe, millions of people were killed over just the same thing--corruption. Think indulgences, Martin Luther and the protestant/catholic divide after that. The troubles in Ireland were just the last act in the bloodshed the reformation kicked off--all based on corruption of a religious idea.

[transam]

The problem is everyone, and I mean everyone, must have the latest iPhone. It costs money........

[Toscano]

As I see it , Buddhism in Thailand might better be described as a pagan form of worship based on old Thai customs .

I do not see so called Buddhism in Thailand in any way relating to the philosophy of Buddha .

Greed is endemic in Thai people at every level of society . A surprising amount of money from even the poorest in society is directed to the temple and

the monks to buy Merit for the family or dear departed . Personally I find it obscene how much money is given by very needy people . Near to our house is a temple for religious gathering and prayer ; closeby they have recently built a monumental temple solely to house images of Buddha .

[camerata]

It isn't possible to generalise about all Thai Buddhism, temples or monks from a few bad examples. I've travelled to hundreds of temples all over Thailand and many of them are dirt poor, dilapidated and probably on the way to being abandoned. In my experience, the ones that really have a lot of money are the ones with historical significance, sacred relics, efficacious statues or highly revered (living or deceased) monks. There probably are others that have no special attraction and are just good at collecting money, but I haven't seen that as being the norm. Many wealthy temples actually donate large sums to charitable works (e.g. Wat Pathum's charities in India).

I've also sat next to upcountry monks on upcountry buses and song taews and they either haven't got a cell phone or they pull out a battered old 800-baht Nokia, and they are wearing those huge black spectacles that look like goggles and cost a couple of hundred baht. Monks with iPhones are not the norm upcountry.

A lot of people are assuming that the donation of money to the Sangha (the monkhood) is pull rather than push, but I see many Thais going to temples to make merit by donating, without being coerced by monks. Why do they do this? If you look at the words of the Buddha in the Pali Canon, he does talk about specific rewards (i.e. merit) for helping the Sangha in a variety of ways, including building monasteries (monks have to live somewhere).

Merit is made in three general categories: giving (dana), virtue (sila) and meditation (bhavana). Obviously, giving is the easiest. If you read any book on Thai Buddhism written by an anthropologist it'll tell you that most Thais (i.e. upcountry villagers) feel that sila (keeping the 5 precepts) is not practical or compatible with lay life and meditation is difficult. How can one not kill sentient beings when one is a farmer? How can one not drink alcohol when there's nothing else to do after a hard day's work? How can one never tell a lie? So they give to temples instead. It brings guaranteed merit, it's easy, and there's some status to be had. It's what many Thais want - and people normally take from religion what they need/want.

So the donating to temples or even building temples is not "incorrect" Buddhism, it's just the lowest level of practice described by the Buddha. And the Buddha also said that the higher levels of practice won't be stable until the lower one is sorted out.

None of this is very surprising. When an analysis of the Buddha's disciples (mentioned by name in the Pali Canon) was done it was found that most were Brahmins or merchants/townspeople, who obviously had some education and money. They weren't farmers. The villagers generally clung to the Brahmanism of the times. Similarly, if you look at western converts to Buddhism today, they are generally middle-class rather than dirt poor. So I don't see why we should suddenly expect all Thai villagers to be interested in Buddhist doctrine or "high-level" practice. Some of them are of course - most of the Thai Forest Tradition ajahns were farmers - but not the majority. And this is no different to the average Tibetan yak herder with his "low-level" practice with prayer wheels and prayer flags.

[techboy]

Frankly I think that you have said a lot of nothing. There is nothing uniquely avaricious about Buddhists in Thailand. The way I see it you are 1) Attempting to draw attention to yourself as an exceptionally moral and ethical person. 2) Setting forth a lot of your own personal negative surmise as though it is fact. In general just another crummy form of Thai Bashing.

[camerata]

The problem is everyone, and I mean everyone, must have the latest iPhone. It costs money........

This is another incorrect generalisation. Upcountry, away from the big towns, I rarely see iPhones. And I travel a lot.

[timber]

The Delhi Lama said once that Christianity and Buddhism are much the same.

Much of what is learned is left behind in the temple or church.

Once you get away from the simple life there are many twists and turns to beliefs.

[nidieunimaitre]

I don't know about all the folks making posts but somethings I do know. Almost every Wat I've visited (and thats many) runs the local pre-school. Some of them run the local 2nd schools also (my son is in one) At least 4 Wats local to me administer villages clean water supplies. I personally know 8 poor Thai rice farmers that have either been given rice seed and/or cash loans by the local Wat interest free. In past days the Wat did (and some still do) the local birth and death statistics for the Tambon. Almost every Wat I've been to acts as the local funeral parlor. I have personally slept in Wat's and have taken many broke Expats to them for temporary lodging and meals. As a safety net for Thai society they do a very good job. I do have problems with the way Buddhism is practised here but it appears to me that they do an awful lot behind the scenes that most expats don't observe.

At last, a balanced perspective.

Yes, Europe 19th century in balance with Thailand 21th century.

Here it ends for me, I am not starting a discussion with a moderator.

[BarnicaleBob]

I don't see how any of this is any different than what Christian churches do in the West.

[dao16]

I don't know about all the folks making posts but somethings I do know. Almost every Wat I've visited (and thats many) runs the local pre-school. Some of them run the local 2nd schools also (my son is in one) At least 4 Wats local to me administer villages clean water supplies. I personally know 8 poor Thai rice farmers that have either been given rice seed and/or cash loans by the local Wat interest free. In past days the Wat did (and some still do) the local birth and death statistics for the Tambon. Almost every Wat I've been to acts as the local funeral parlor. I have personally slept in Wat's and have taken many broke Expats to them for temporary lodging and meals. As a safety net for Thai society they do a very good job. I do have problems with the way Buddhism is practised here but it appears to me that they do an awful lot behind the scenes that most expats don't observe.

At last, a balanced perspective.

Yes, Europe 19th century in balance with Thailand 21th century.

Here it ends for me, I am not starting a discussion with a moderator.

Don't know what the post means, but your avatar is definitely pre-20th century, hahaha.....

[dao16]

Many here on this topic have asked what can be done about this, in my humble opinion it is already being done. Thais have been deserting temples in their thousands, young Thais especially just ain't having any of it. They're not falling for the crap of their politicians, and nor are they the blatant hypocrisy in the temples, it is just turning them off their religion big time. Many Thais I have spoken to do not see Thai Buddhism surviving this generation.

Wow...I don't see that at all, and I am around young people all the time (yes, teaching university). That could be a symptom of "tell you what you want to hear" syndrome that is very common in Asia.

Who knows, you could be right, but I would assume you were in BKK, although I haven't seen any level of person here who has told me that the temple is BS, from the highest to the lowest from North to South and all other directions.

Would be interested to hear where you are meeting these people--honestly, not being facetious. Simply haven't seen it.

Edited November 18, 2013 by dao16

[tingtongteesood]

Same as Thai people like to think they have democracy but in reality they don't and will never understand the reasons why, similarly they do not have real Buddhism despite believing they do and will never understand why. I told many people 'if you really want to make merit then you should do merit worthy things, giving money to the temple is not in the least way merit worthy and that really they should not expect anything in return, it is not merit worthy if you expect favours in return'. They will nevere understand this concept....Same as I can't understand the way Thais think....Not bashing - fact.

[AYJAYDEE]

Buddhism in Thailand is SO far from what the Tibetans call Buddhism.

Buddha taught about enlightenment, not greed.

Thais pray for personal gain, and wear Buddha amulets to protect them from harm.

It's a great big laughing stock to real Buddhists.

Thais are very hypocritical, but that's because they see Buddhism as a religion instead of a philosophy of life, which is what it was intended to be.

It's the same as preachers bangin' on the congregation about whoring and then he's in a brothel on Sunday afternoon.

dont think the tibetans are any closer to the teachings

[Ulic]

It is not money, that corrupts but the pursuit of money.

[BKKdreaming]

It is not money, that corrupts but the pursuit of money.

or its not the speed that kills you , its the sudden stop !

[Trotto]

I often tell the wife..

"if we need money, I can just put on a saffron robe, shave my head and pass out empty envelopes to the poor people. They feel guilty if they don't stuff them with cash and return them."

I agree that Thai Buddhism is way off the mark.

The monks should be educating the people in the teachings of the Buddha.

Instead, they collect money and promote social events.

A good place to start: the education:

It is not O.K. to kill every living thing you see!

How does your wife respond to this?

[silent]

they learned from the Catholic church !

I am the last one to defend the catholic church, but please explain how the catholics taught the thai budhists.

Easy. They taught that you can bend the rules to do what you want, just as long as you go to something called a confessional and secretly admit to it. What more proof do you need?

I fully agree with your criticism of the catholic church.

Now take a deep breath.

And tell me... how, when did the catholics teach the thais?

Mind you, I am patient with you, after all you have the makings of afuture humanist- atheist, and such people are in short supply.

Meanwhile, try to shake off 'the white man's burdon.

I would seriously consider deep breathing lessons and avoid too much smoking if I were you. It's somtimes so much fun making an ass out of myself, especially when we clearly, not once, but two times in a row!!!. I'm afraid my only white man's burden is that from others'. There should be some improvement if we change the medication. In the meantime see if you can take a look at the Mayor Rob Ford video for some real deep religion.

[Trotto]

This past summer my wife, who is a Thai Buddhist, and I, took a quick trip over to Hong Kong. Of course we had to take a trip over to see the Big Buddha. The story that was written regarding the history of the building of it stated that a group of monks had travelled to a place in China and had seen a big Buddha there. They were very impressed and had decided that they too wanted a big Buddha. Even bigger!

I didn't get it. That is envy, right? Ostentatious display?

I have said to my wife that we will try to find the poorest temple with the smallest, least golden Buddha we can find in Thailand and go there.

She looked at me like I was from crazyland.

[slipperylobster]

Bad mouthing religious beliefs simply does not work. I just see alot of negativity . People strive to be good, but some need a belief system. Religions are man made, true, and as such, are inherently fallable. But better than nothing. People need to be comforted and believe in and afterlife, they yearn to discover meaning and deal with adversity, death, afterlife and a God. Why try to deny them?

[Trotto]

Bad mouthing religious beliefs simply does not work. I just see alot of negativity . People strive to be good, but some need a belief system. Religions are man made, true, and as such, are inherently fallable. But better than nothing. People need to be comforted and believe in and afterlife, they yearn to discover meaning and deal with adversity, death, afterlife and a God. Why try to deny them?

Critical examination, questioning and proper discourse is not bad mouthing. Nothing should be above criticism. Most people would not deny others of a belief system. The ones that do are probably pushing their own.

[F4UCorsair]

Why does any religion (yes, yes, I know that Buddhism is not strictly a 'religion') have such a greed for money. Because they are greedy empire building organizations!!

Many years ago, while in Rome, I did the obligatory Vatican, and of course the Vatican Museum 'tour'. I'd bought a reproduction oil lamp, of the type seen in the Catacombs under Rome where the Christians hid out during the crusades, at a market a few days before. It was small, about 12 cm long, in the typical Arabian oil lamp shape, and I think it cost about $2.00. I speculated at the time on what a genuine one may cost, dating back to the time of the crusades, 2000 years, and figured it would be tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of $$.

I would have thought that one in the Vatican museum would have been adequate, because they are identical having been made in a mould, but there were dozens there, dozens!! For what purpose? If they were to be sold to help the poor, I'd understand, but it was for no reason other than accumulation of wealth, and that explains what most churches/religions are about.

From my observation, I think that Buddhism gives, and achieves, a lot more than most religions.