Suthep declares Nov 24 demise of Thaksin Regime

[webfact]

Suthep declares Nov 24 demise of Thaksin Regime
By English News



BANGKOK, Nov 18 – Protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban has announced the fall of the Thaksin Regime on Sunday when the number of Thai people’s endorsements on a petition to impeach 310 MPs who voted for the amnesty bill will reach one million.

In yet another harsh speech at the Democracy Monument last night, the former deputy prime minister said protesters will fight together until the Thaksin regime is totally wiped out of Thai society.

He called on Bangkok protesters to come out to fight against the government on Rajdamnoen Avenue and said that those in the provinces should simultaneously hold similar activities which will eventually stimulate civil servants to rise up in arms against the current government.

“November 24 will be a historic day for Thai people who will topple Thaksin Regime. Let us come up with a million or more than a million (people) to fight with our bare hands until we win,” he said.

As Mr Suthep and other protest leaders were on stage, people continued pouring in to sign their petitions to impeach the 310 MPs in the government bloc who voted in favour of the controversial amnesty bill. The legislation was later rejected by the Senate.

Satit Wongnhongtaey, former Democrat MP, said Mr Suthep and other leaders will show up at Parliament today to present themselves as “pioneers” to remove the 310 MPs.

He believed the protesters will be successful in collecting enough supporters for the impeachment by tomorrow.

The intensity of the protest will continue to escalate until it peaks on November 30 as declared by Mr Suthep, he said.

Buddhipongse Punnakanta, a former Democrat MP from Bangkok, urged the demonstrators to keep a close watch on the Senate’s debate on the bill to borrow Bt2 trillion for infrastructure development projects, scheduled for today.

He said the demonstrators will also protest against the bill which was earlier passed by the House of Representatives. (MCOT online news)


-- TNA 2013-11-18

[webfact]

Suthep sets November 24 as day to declare victory against Thaksin Regime



BANGKOK: -- Former Surat Thani MP Suthep Thuagsuban last night declared November 24 as the victory day for the people to overthrow the Thaksin regime.
He called on all the people in Bangkok to gather at the Democracy Monument on Sunday (November 24) and those in the provinces to gather at the City Halls and listen to the center in Bangkok for what he called the day to announce victory over the regime.

He said that it would be the day when a million signatures is expected to be collected to push for the change of the regime.

His announcement was made at the Democracy Monument where tens of thousands of supporters gather to mount pressure on the Yingluck government to show her responsibility over the passage of the amnesty bill which drew protests from all classes of the people.

Suthep said that today (November 18) would be another day when the Yingluck government would enjoy the 2 trillion baht loan bill when it was tabled before the Senate for final approval. The bill will allow the Finance Ministry to seek loans for mega project investments without having to seek prior approval from Parliament.

He said he fed up with past calls for parliamentary movement to stop corruptions and therefore November 24 would be the day for the people to act.

Last night a huge Krathong or flower float was also displayed on the stage as part of the protesters to take part in the traditional Loy Krathong floating festival.

In a speech, Suthep said the Thaksin regime is a “cancer” that must be eliminated for the well-being of the people. It must be uprooted from the country forever, Suthep said and then called on all protesters to celebrate Loy Krathong festival last night with the floating of Thaksin regime or what he called an “evil” from the country and never let it back to the country again.

A protest spokesman said today nine protest leaders, including Suthep, will submit a letter to Senate Speaker to notify him of their official movement to gather the required 20,000 signatures to impeach the 310 MPs, a process required under the Constitution, and later to the National Anti Corruption Commission to investigate the conduct of these MPs.

Suthep said that he expected the remainder 7 days will be enough to collect up to a million signatures by November 24 and then a full scale civil disobedience would restart.

Earlier he said he would submit a million signatures to the Senate Speaker to impeach the 310 Members of Parliament (MPs) of both the ruling Pheu Thai and its coalition Phumjai Thai party on their vote to pass the controversial amnesty bill.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/suthep-sets-november-24-day-declare-victory-thaksin-regime/

-- Thai PBS 2013-11-18

[Thait Spot]

November 24. I am waiting for that day to get rig of Thaksin once and forever. You can find in on the street celebrating along with the 60 millions Thai people.

 

Not sure I understand this

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[DocN]

"Let us come up with a million or more than a million (people) to fight with our bare hands until we win,” he said."

Read: you may fight, while I head off to some safe place, protected by my bodyguards!

[rkidlad]

Roll on the 24th of November then.

Could you jog on as well, Suthep?

[Jip99]

... and this will achieve what ?.......... exactly ?

[bigbamboo]

Oh great. Now we have two madmen trying to run the country.

[jdinasia]

"Let us come up with a million or more than a million (people) to fight with our bare hands until we win,” he said."

Read: you may fight, while I head off to some safe place, protected by my bodyguards!

I am not sure about that. Suthep has shown some strength in not running away from charges laid against him PPP/PTP/the reds)

If we were talking about Chamlong I would say 100% that you are wrong. With Suthep I would say there is an 80% chance you are incorrect.

[hammered]

Sounds like Suthep wants a civil war or is utterly insane.

[hammered]

"Let us come up with a million or more than a million (people) to fight with our bare hands until we win,” he said."

Read: you may fight, while I head off to some safe place, protected by my bodyguards!

I am not sure about that. Suthep has shown some strength in not running away from charges laid against him PPP/PTP/the reds)

If we were talking about Chamlong I would say 100% that you are wrong. With Suthep I would say there is an 80% chance you are incorrect.

JD I think you should look into his history: 1995 and more recently 2009 (that was a classic dodge)

[worgeordie]

Keep on dreaming,this clan are like a leech on the leg of Thailand,

sucking its blood,and unfortunately will not be so easy to get rid of.

regards Worgeordie

[Thait Spot]

November 24. I am waiting for that day to get rig of Thaksin once and forever. You can find in on the street celebrating along with the 60 millions Thai people.

Not sure I understand this

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

If you allow for a few spelling mistakes and some missing words it's quite understandable, but completely nonsensical.

Basically he is saying the day that Thaksin is gone, once and forever, presumably dead, you will be able to find him, Spare, celebrating in the streets with apparently 92% of the Thai population (using 2010 figures) who according to Spare, would like to see this event happen.

What can you say? Why bother? (No, whybother that's not an invitation for you to bore the ass off us with a definition of majority )

Well.....

I'd have to say that I've never seen the reds turn down a free party

[hammered]

*Deleted posts edited out*

Suthep has just united the reds and PT after they showed signs of a rupture. I think they will have no problem winning the next election (if there is one and if they are allowed to run it) again. Having Abhisit as the alternative alone will ensure that. Right now there is an attempt to show a few small demos in the south and some relatively small by PAD and red standards in BKK and a few push polls show the whole country has turned on the government. That is not the case. Then again let's wait and see when the next election comes along hoping one does within the next two years and that both parties get to run in it

Edited November 18, 2013 by Scott
Deleted post edited out

[fab4]

"Let us come up with a million or more than a million (people) to fight with our bare hands until we win,” he said."

Read: you may fight, while I head off to some safe place, protected by my bodyguards!

I am not sure about that. Suthep has shown some strength in not running away from charges laid against him PPP/PTP/the reds)

If we were talking about Chamlong I would say 100% that you are wrong. With Suthep I would say there is an 80% chance you are incorrect.

Strength? He knows he is covered by the Emergency Decree which gives him and abhisit amnesty as long, and here's the deciding factor, as long as the court regards their actions as not being a disproportionate response to the force they were resisting. The Human Rights Organisations have already made their views known on the use of snipers / marksmen and live fire zones. It remains to be seen (hopefully) whether the Court agrees with them.

I notice that all the talk about the charges only being made against them as a way to apply leverage to their agreeing to the Amnesty Bill has gone very quiet - a bit embarassing to claim that so loudly and then not see it happen I suppose.

[Jingthing]

Who's his astrologer?

[h90]

November 24. I am waiting for that day to get rig of Thaksin once and forever. You can find in on the street celebrating along with the 60 millions Thai people.

I doubt that 60 millions will celebrate. But all the South and most of Bangkok will.

The Dems have just over 40% of Bangkok voters or a slightly bigger 40% than PT and then there are all the "transient" workers from the north and north east. Most in BKK may not celebrate

lets say most inner city will celebrate.....

[h90]

I doubt that 60 millions will celebrate. But all the South and most of Bangkok will.

The Dems have just over 40% of Bangkok voters or a slightly bigger 40% than PT and then there are all the "transient" workers from the north and north east. Most in BKK may not celebrate

There is some indication that the dissatisfaction with PTP/Reds may skew the standard voting numbers, not only in BKK but also in the NE. (I am not saying that in an election the NE will vote Dem. That is unlikely but I doubt they (PTP) get 44% again ... ever

Suthep has just united the reds and PT after they showed signs of a rupture. I think they will have no problem winning the next election (if there is one and if they are allowed to run it) again. Having Abhisit as the alternative alone will ensure that. Right now there is an attempt to show a few small demos in the south and some relatively small by PAD and red standards in BKK and a few push polls show the whole country has turned on the government. That is not the case. Then again let's wait and see when the next election comes along hoping one does within the next two years and that both parties get to run in it

I doubt there ever was any rupture....Just a show. The red MPs didn't even vote against the amnesty. In my opinion it was just hot air.

[jdinasia]

"Let us come up with a million or more than a million (people) to fight with our bare hands until we win,” he said."

Read: you may fight, while I head off to some safe place, protected by my bodyguards!

I am not sure about that. Suthep has shown some strength in not running away from charges laid against him PPP/PTP/the reds)

If we were talking about Chamlong I would say 100% that you are wrong. With Suthep I would say there is an 80% chance you are incorrect.

Strength? He knows he is covered by the Emergency Decree which gives him and abhisit amnesty as long, and here's the deciding factor, as long as the court regards their actions as not being a disproportionate response to the force they were resisting. The Human Rights Organisations have already made their views known on the use of snipers / marksmen and live fire zones. It remains to be seen (hopefully) whether the Court agrees with them.

I notice that all the talk about the charges only being made against them as a way to apply leverage to their agreeing to the Amnesty Bill has gone very quiet - a bit embarassing to claim that so loudly and then not see it happen I suppose.

Ummmm no ... There is no "amnesty" contrary to your assertion. This isn't a thread about 2010, but to help you get those red blinkers off, i will try to explain with some brevity.

1) What "Human Rights Organisations" say or don't say is not an issue.

2) If the RoE were not adhered to that falls on the military.

3) Abhisit and Suthep were in office at the time and thus cannot be tried in a court not set aside to try political office holders

4) Your assumption regarding the charges against them being an attempt at leverage fails when you recognize that they had no need to let that blackmail go through.. No risk for them in standing the ground of the righteous in this instance.Nothing embarrassing about them saying "we will stay in Thailand and face the charges"

5) If a court case actually got brought in front of a court that had jurisdiction over them, they would be easily acquitted. An armed insurrection on the street using grenade launchers and war weapons .. and months of patience on the part of the leadership, plus the ability to legally make declarations of other people's guilt and complicity would have them walking out very free men.

But simply I was referring to Suthep not being a coward and running off to some place like Dubai, China, Nicaragua, or Montenegro.... and there being no "PastryGate". Strength in this case is simply that. Suthep stayed strong and stayed in Thailand.

edited to remove a redundant statement in the first sentence.

Edited November 18, 2013 by jdinasia

[ballpoint]

Sounds like Suthep wants a civil war or is utterly insane.

I'm wondering why you used "or" instead of "and"?

[fab4]

Strength? He knows he is covered by the Emergency Decree which gives him and abhisit amnesty as long, and here's the deciding factor, as long as the court regards their actions as not being a disproportionate response to the force they were resisting. The Human Rights Organisations have already made their views known on the use of snipers / marksmen and live fire zones. It remains to be seen (hopefully) whether the Court agrees with them.

I notice that all the talk about the charges only being made against them as a way to apply leverage to their agreeing to the Amnesty Bill has gone very quiet - a bit embarassing to claim that so loudly and then not see it happen I suppose.

Ummmm no ... There is no "amnesty" contrary to your assertion. This isn't a thread about 2010, but to help you get those red blinkers off, i will try to explain with some brevity.

1) What "Human Rights Organisations" say or don't say is not an issue.

2) If the RoE were not adhered to that falls on the military.

3) Abhisit and Suthep were in office at the time and thus cannot be tried in a court not set aside to try political office holders

4) Your assumption regarding the charges against them being an attempt at leverage fails when you recognize that they had no need to let that blackmail go through.. No risk for them in standing the ground of the righteous in this instance.Nothing embarrassing about them saying "we will stay in Thailand and face the charges"

5) If a court case actually got brought in front of a court that had jurisdiction over them, they would be easily acquitted. An armed insurrection on the street using grenade launchers and war weapons .. and months of patience on the part of the leadership, plus the ability to legally make declarations of other people's guilt and complicity would have them walking out very free men.

But simply I was referring to Suthep not being a coward and running off to some place like Dubai, China, Nicaragua, or Montenegro.... and there being no "PastryGate". Strength in this case is simply that. Suthep stayed strong and stayed in Thailand.

edited to remove a redundant statement in the first sentence.

If you are just being pedantic about my use of the word amnesty instead of immunity provided by the Emergency Decree, fair enough, but state that that is the case. If you don't want to accept that there is an immunity involved, well, it is pointless having further discussion as you are obviously misinformed.

I believe it was your post referring to the alleged strength of Suthep that prompted my reply. It is difficult to refer to the charges levied at Suthep without talking about the events that prompted those charges. Unless of course you are not so confident in your argument that you wish to weight the argument your way.

1. If you say so. See 2.

2. I'm not saying the RoE were adhered to or not (they obviously weren't in some cases) it is whether or not the RoE and revised RoE were a disproportionate response or not. The result of this question will have a big effect on their own little amnesty, abhisit has already referred to it here

Abhisit has dismissed the case as political retribution and said he’d sue the DSI for violating the law in bringing the charges. An emergency decree in place during the protests provides him immunity if the actions were not discriminatory or disproportionate, he said, adding that a court confirmed that armed people were among the protesters.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-01-21/abhisit-defends-thai-army-actions-in-fighting-murder-charges.html

3. I'm still not sure about this one. Obviously abhisit and suthep are wriggling because they want to be tried by AMLO (now, that wasn't always the case when they were first charged, didn't have any problem with the DSI then). Again abhisit was the one who first set the DSI on the investigation trail so why does he have a problem with them now,apart from the fact that despite their denials the inquests are finding against abhist/suthep/army using that very information. I can't see the DSI and the AG making a mistake here at this stage.

4. It wasn't my assumption about the "charges for leverage" - if you read back through this forum you will find that theory very much the anti gov groups favourite conspiracy plot. As for "righteous" See 2.

5. That is for the Judge to decide. The use of live fire zones in an urban conflict coupled with the revised RoE's will be of particular interest and difficult to defend as just a few testimonies and video presentations would show. That alone could lead to a conviction. Where else in the world has that been used as part of crowd control against unarmed people?

I won't even begin to question why you would defend the indefensible.

[hammered]

I doubt there ever was any rupture....Just a show. The red MPs didn't even vote against the amnesty. In my opinion it was just hot air.

The Isaan poll showed 75% of the people in the Isaan did not support the amnesty as they wanted Abhisit and Suthep tried. The reds are huge in the Isaan. This is generally seen as the reason PT backed down by many people. The North of Thailand would be very similar. It is hard for those who do not have connections in the rural areas to appreciate quite how despised these two men are for their connection to the death in 2010. The Dems sure wont be winning any election with Abhisit as leader.

[Artisi]

"Let us come up with a million or more than a million (people) to fight with our bare hands until we win,” he said."

Read: you may fight, while I head off to some safe place, protected by my bodyguards!

Well why wouldn't he surround himself with bodyguards, considering the fugitive he is trying to rid Thailand of wouldn't have a second thought of issuing an instruction to murder him, but guess that would be an ok for the likes of you and the red-rabble should their saviour issue such as instruction.

And by-the-way, I don't see your fugitive hero here in Thailand leading the support for his political party, no-balls, just all mouth, let the others do all the hard work and run all the risks.

[hammered]

So what is Suthep saying is going to happen on Nov 24? Or is this just another attempt to fire up a demo that has seen shrinking numbers, a loss of business support, an ICJ decision that didnt go the way they wanted and failing tactics? It is also a Sunday, so they aren't going to stop anything going on. Without extra fuel on Wedensday or a massive misstep by the government, what are they going to be aiming at?

[JRSoul]

I doubt there ever was any rupture....Just a show. The red MPs didn't even vote against the amnesty. In my opinion it was just hot air.

The Isaan poll showed 75% of the people in the Isaan did not support the amnesty as they wanted Abhisit and Suthep tried. The reds are huge in the Isaan. This is generally seen as the reason PT backed down by many people. The North of Thailand would be very similar. It is hard for those who do not have connections in the rural areas to appreciate quite how despised these two men are for their connection to the death in 2010. The Dems sure wont be winning any election with Abhisit as leader.

Unaware of the poll, but did it ask why respondents were against the amnesty? In my experience, many in the NE are ambivalent about Thaksin, and many of the young adults are quite anti-.

[ramrod711]

Abhisit should step down and give the people in the north and north east an alternative. I don't believe he is guilty of murder, he is guilty of not taking a firm stance at the beginning of the mess in 2010. He could have put a stop to it before the reds began building fortresses and burning tires. He sat down with red leaders, offered them an election in 4 months, but an election wasn't what they were after. They wanted to bring back the man who could make them all rich within 6 months of his return. Thaksin has been compared to a leech, he is more like a cancer.

[Thait Spot]

Abhisit should step down and give the people in the north and north east an alternative. I don't believe he is guilty of murder, he is guilty of not taking a firm stance at the beginning of the mess in 2010. He could have put a stop to it before the reds began building fortresses and burning tires. He sat down with red leaders, offered them an election in 4 months, but an election wasn't what they were after. They wanted to bring back the man who could make them all rich within 6 months of his return. Thaksin has been compared to a leech, he is more like a cancer.

I agree. But my guess would be that he would wait until just before an election to do so

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[hammered]

I doubt there ever was any rupture....Just a show. The red MPs didn't even vote against the amnesty. In my opinion it was just hot air.

The Isaan poll showed 75% of the people in the Isaan did not support the amnesty as they wanted Abhisit and Suthep tried. The reds are huge in the Isaan. This is generally seen as the reason PT backed down by many people. The North of Thailand would be very similar. It is hard for those who do not have connections in the rural areas to appreciate quite how despised these two men are for their connection to the death in 2010. The Dems sure wont be winning any election with Abhisit as leader.

Unaware of the poll, but did it ask why respondents were against the amnesty? In my experience, many in the NE are ambivalent about Thaksin, and many of the young adults are quite anti-.

Yes it gave them a selection of options, so they could choose several. 40 odd % wanted Thaksin tried, 70+% the PAD. 50% the army. It showed a rather nuanced understanding of issues and political opinion. I think Bangkok Pundit did a piece on it if you scroll back on his blog

[NongKhaiKid]

I said it previously and will repeat that Suthep can single-handedly destroy the opposition's position and in the Thai way of things since he has become the top man no one is likely to tell him to cool it etc.

The only real option for those who disagree with what he says and can't get him under control is to distance themselves from him and his mouth which weakens the opposition and plays into the government's hands.

Unfortunately Suthep has the bit between his teeth and the microphone in his hand and can only get worse as there's no way sensible tactics for the common cause will figure in his thoughts now.

[ballpoint]

I doubt there ever was any rupture....Just a show. The red MPs didn't even vote against the amnesty. In my opinion it was just hot air.

The Isaan poll showed 75% of the people in the Isaan did not support the amnesty as they wanted Abhisit and Suthep tried. The reds are huge in the Isaan. This is generally seen as the reason PT backed down by many people. The North of Thailand would be very similar. It is hard for those who do not have connections in the rural areas to appreciate quite how despised these two men are for their connection to the death in 2010. The Dems sure wont be winning any election with Abhisit as leader.

And just why didn't the PTP consult their rural supporters before pushing the bill through parliament? Surely if 75% of people in Isaan, and I'm not doubting that figure, want Abhisit and Suthep tried, some alarm bells should have been ringing at PTP headquarters a long time ago? And what about the MPs from Isaan? They could hardly be described as voting for the interests of their constituents, if 75% of the people they claim to represent were against the bill in the form it was presented? Doesn't that make rather a large mockery of those who are trying to tell us that the PTP have the rural interest at heart? Rubbish. This entire debacle has shown the PTP have the interest of one man alone at heart.

[Thait Spot]

 

"Let us come up with a million or more than a million (people) to fight with our bare hands until we win,” he said."

Read: you may fight, while I head off to some safe place, protected by my bodyguards!

I am not sure about that. Suthep has shown some strength in not running away from charges laid against him PPP/PTP/the reds) 

 

If we were talking about Chamlong I would say 100% that you are wrong. With Suthep I would say there is an 80% chance you are incorrect.

 

 

Strength? He knows he is covered by the Emergency Decree which gives him and abhisit amnesty as long, and here's the deciding factor, as long as the court regards their actions as not being a disproportionate response to the force they were resisting. The Human Rights Organisations have already made their views known on the use of snipers / marksmen and live fire zones. It remains to be seen (hopefully) whether the Court agrees with them.

 

I notice that all the talk about the charges only being made against them as a way to apply leverage to their agreeing to the Amnesty Bill has gone very quiet - a bit embarassing to claim that so loudly and then not see it happen I suppose.

The funniest thing here is that the old has-been with a supposedly questionable past has fought amnesty, fought corruption, is fighting the Shinawatra regime and has got them so rattled that they are pulling all the stops to save their carcasses.

Who cares about treason charges when you have to face a murder rap next month?

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