Bid to stop escalation of violence

[Lite Beer]

Bid to stop escalation of violence
Pravit Rojanaphruk
The Sunday Nation

BANGKOK: -- Peace advocates and concerned citizens held an emergency meeting at Chulalongkorn University on Thursday in the hope of preventing yet more bloodshed or another military coup, following the escalation of political tension.

They expressed hope that Thailand could emerge from the political confrontation without a repeat of former violence.

Samana Jantasetto, a senior monk in the Dhamma Army, which is holding demonstrations opposing the Yingluck Shinawatra administration, expressed concern that his fellow protesters were becoming agitated from listening to emotionally charged speeches made daily against the government. Jantasetto said he had spoken on the Dhamma Army rally stage a few times, but now felt the negative emotions of the protesters had been heightened to a point that could move them to act. There was little he could do to diffuse the tensions, he added.

Both anti- and pro-government activists were also at the meeting, organised by Mahidol University's Institute of Human Rights and Peace Studies - however, they ended up exchanging fierce words.

Tul Sitthisomwong, leader of the anti-government multi-coloured shirt movement, said fugitive former premier Thaksin Shinawatra was the root of the crisis. He also added that because Prime Minister Yingluck was not willing to apologise for the retracted blanket amnesty bill, the situation had worsened. "I think the premier won't apologise. What's more, she is even blaming those who oppose [the blanket amnesty bill]," he said.

Tul added that since 2009 the red shirts had been spreading hate speech and violence, and were now looking to instigate another violent confrontation. He added that he no longer trusted Yingluck to run the country.

"I don't think they understand democracy, the rule of law, or justice," Tul said, referring to the red-shirt leaders. "I hate those who incite people to kill one another - I wish they would simply die."

Red Sunday group leader Sombat Boonngam-anong was visibly upset by Tul's words and said the opposition Democrat Party would likely stop at nothing to provoke violence, in order to drag the army into staging a coup. He called for an immediate cessation of hate speech used on both sides.

National Human Rights Commissioner Nirand Pitakwatchara said he had witnessed enough from both camps. "We don't want this protest to lead to violence and the loss of life - Thai society has already lost more than enough.

"The political struggle must be carried out democratically because anything else will deepen the crisis and lead to violence," he said. "A military coup or reliance on His Majesty the King [for a royally appointed Prime Minister] is something that should no longer occur."

-- The Nation 2013-11-24

[Thainy Tim]

"I don't think they understand democracy, the rule of law, or justice," Tul said, referring to the red-shirt leaders. "I hate those who incite people to kill one another - I wish they would simply die."

Red Sunday group leader Sombat Boonngam-anong was visibly upset by Tul's words.

Lol.... Touchy subject was it?

[sscsamui]

It is truly another sad day for Thai Politics. It seem that it will be very difficult to find a peaceful solution to this conflict. I believe that if the PM needs to call for new elections and hopefully someone with No connection to Thaksin and someone willing to work for All the people of Thailand, not just one side. Yes this would be difficult to achieve.

Yes it is wishful thinking. Oh Well...

[smutcakes]

It is truly another sad day for Thai Politics. It seem that it will be very difficult to find a peaceful solution to this conflict. I believe that if the PM needs to call for new elections and hopefully someone with No connection to Thaksin and someone willing to work for All the people of Thailand, not just one side. Yes this would be difficult to achieve.

Yes it is wishful thinking. Oh Well...

I agree it would be nice to have a 3rd party come out with no connection to any of the old parties and known political persons, sadly i feel the social structure of Thailand just simply would not allow it. The only hope would be for companies like TCC, Thai Bev, CP etc to get together and say enough is enough and fund/back/encourage some kind of new party but they are simply to savvy for this, and most of them i expect have people in high political positions on their pay roll already, possibly not out of any great choice but more out of necessity, its simply not worth their while, and frankly not their business. Any new and non corrupt person who tried to come through the ranks of established parties and potentially cut the gravy train would very quickly be marginalized.

[easybullet3]

is this some kind of a joke? "Dhamma Army" ? !!!

so, a Monk is worried that people in his 'Spiritual Army' are getting upset and may "Act" on their emotions against the government?

Isn't that kind of Obvious? if he is sending lots of Monks to Anti-Government protests, then of course they will get angry (more than before).

Why would monks be at a rally anyway ?

Monks are supposed to be spiritually aware and following a path of awareness... (which is NOT at an Anti-Government Rally).

If they are at Demonstrations then it is obvious that their energy is going to get "diluted" by the thousands and thousands of angry people.

a few white specs of good energy is not really enough to convert thousands of specs of angry energy.

he has found out that it was the 'other way around',,, the thousands of specs of angry energy converted his few specs of good energy.

If he thought about his tactics better, he would have just gone there for a few hours at a time. and on random days.

(or,, break up his monks into groups and take 'shifts' in being at the protests).

he would not have subjected his Monks to being there all the time.

[hellodolly]

is this some kind of a joke? "Dhamma Army" ? !!!

so, a Monk is worried that people in his 'Spiritual Army' are getting upset and may "Act" on their emotions against the government?

Isn't that kind of Obvious? if he is sending lots of Monks to Anti-Government protests, then of course they will get angry (more than before).

Why would monks be at a rally anyway ?

Monks are supposed to be spiritually aware and following a path of awareness... (which is NOT at an Anti-Government Rally).

If they are at Demonstrations then it is obvious that their energy is going to get "diluted" by the thousands and thousands of angry people.

a few white specs of good energy is not really enough to convert thousands of specs of angry energy.

he has found out that it was the 'other way around',,, the thousands of specs of angry energy converted his few specs of good energy.

If he thought about his tactics better, he would have just gone there for a few hours at a time. and on random days.

(or,, break up his monks into groups and take 'shifts' in being at the protests).

he would not have subjected his Monks to being there all the time.

So sorry I missed the part where he made the Monks go.

I do not know that much about Buddhism but I do know that a Monk is a human being. Therefore subject to human emotions and likes and dislikes. I know that they are supposed to care for their fellow human beings. I also believe that what you say they are suppose to be is just goals. Goals that are unattainable. No matter how long they live they will always fall short of the perfection you claim they should have.

Was it not Monks in Burma who started the last riots there. It was an effort to reach out and obtain some little bit of justice for their oppressed fellow country men.

To be honest with you Monk or no Monk man or women the I believe their goals should be sought for by all.

[easybullet3]

is this some kind of a joke? "Dhamma Army" ? !!!

so, a Monk is worried that people in his 'Spiritual Army' are getting upset and may "Act" on their emotions against the government?

Isn't that kind of Obvious? if he is sending lots of Monks to Anti-Government protests, then of course they will get angry (more than before).

Why would monks be at a rally anyway ?

Monks are supposed to be spiritually aware and following a path of awareness... (which is NOT at an Anti-Government Rally).

If they are at Demonstrations then it is obvious that their energy is going to get "diluted" by the thousands and thousands of angry people.

a few white specs of good energy is not really enough to convert thousands of specs of angry energy.

he has found out that it was the 'other way around',,, the thousands of specs of angry energy converted his few specs of good energy.

If he thought about his tactics better, he would have just gone there for a few hours at a time. and on random days.

(or,, break up his monks into groups and take 'shifts' in being at the protests).

he would not have subjected his Monks to being there all the time.

So sorry I missed the part where he made the Monks go.

I do not know that much about Buddhism but I do know that a Monk is a human being. Therefore subject to human emotions and likes and dislikes. I know that they are supposed to care for their fellow human beings. I also believe that what you say they are suppose to be is just goals. Goals that are unattainable. No matter how long they live they will always fall short of the perfection you claim they should have.

Was it not Monks in Burma who started the last riots there. It was an effort to reach out and obtain some little bit of justice for their oppressed fellow country men.

To be honest with you Monk or no Monk man or women the I believe their goals should be sought for by all.

you are missing my point.

i'm saying that he seemed disappointed at the fact that his monks had succumb to their emotions and have now become 'charged' with anger against the government too.

and I was pointing out that its a silly plan to bring 'specks' of peace among fields of anger. (coz its more than likely that the fields of anger will have more effect upon the 'specks' of good).

i'm not questioning about they are human of course.

humans are subject to emotion and easy to get sucked into a political debate.

the whole idea of being a Monk is to rise above it and keep away from things that mess around and interfere with your state of consciousness!

[bushwacker]

"< I hate all this talk of violence and asking protesters to kill other countrymen .... I wish they would just die>"

Hmm ... this strikes me as a contradiction or a typical Thai opinion.

[Sunderland]

With respect, both peaceful sides of the divide seem to be saying, "I hate violence. I wish everyone on the other side would die a violent death."

Not sure how many will turn up today, but quite a sizeable crowd there already, and they seem to be spending a fair amount of time squeezing newcomers through the main crowd to other vacant areas. Fortunately, a million people won't turn up, or it would be a horrible squeeze on Rajadamnoen, and there would likely be deaths as a result of suffocation.

Anyway, judging on the numbers who have already shown up, I think the crowd figure will exceed the 70,000 the police predicted, and perhaps something like 150,000 at its peak this evening. Not a bad number for a rally.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Sunderland

[fab4]

"I don't think they understand democracy, the rule of law, or justice," Tul said, referring to the red-shirt leaders. "I hate those who incite people to kill one another - I wish they would simply die."

Red Sunday group leader Sombat Boonngam-anong was visibly upset by Tul's words.

Lol.... Touchy subject was it?

If you had a better understanding of the Red Shirt groups your statement would not be as naive as it appears.

[gl555]

Why don't you enlighten us about the Red Shirts then? After all, we naive people only see them as a bunch of thugs and gangsters who blindly follow a criminal and whose existence seem solely about getting paid to cause disruptions in Bangkok and asking for hand outs from the government. Yes we are naive!

"I don't think they understand democracy, the rule of law, or justice," Tul said, referring to the red-shirt leaders. "I hate those who incite people to kill one another - I wish they would simply die."

Red Sunday group leader Sombat Boonngam-anong was visibly upset by Tul's words.

Lol.... Touchy subject was it?

If you had a better understanding of the Red Shirt groups your statement would not be as naive as it appears.

[Robby nz]

is this some kind of a joke? "Dhamma Army" ? !!!

so, a Monk is worried that people in his 'Spiritual Army' are getting upset and may "Act" on their emotions against the government?

Isn't that kind of Obvious? if he is sending lots of Monks to Anti-Government protests, then of course they will get angry (more than before).

Why would monks be at a rally anyway ?

Monks are supposed to be spiritually aware and following a path of awareness... (which is NOT at an Anti-Government Rally).

If they are at Demonstrations then it is obvious that their energy is going to get "diluted" by the thousands and thousands of angry people.

a few white specs of good energy is not really enough to convert thousands of specs of angry energy.

he has found out that it was the 'other way around',,, the thousands of specs of angry energy converted his few specs of good energy.

If he thought about his tactics better, he would have just gone there for a few hours at a time. and on random days.

(or,, break up his monks into groups and take 'shifts' in being at the protests).

he would not have subjected his Monks to being there all the time.

You obviously know nothing about the Dhamma Army, try reading up about the Asoke group before you make assumptions that anyone is sending monks to rallies.

That one monk is making statements that amount to asking everyone to be peaceful and not start any violence does not mean he is sending monks anywhere.

The Dhamma Army is not comprised solely of monks, I know this for a fact for my Mr's will be there with them this evening and I know someone else whose wife has been with them some time now.

When you have done your research then you will no longer have to make assumptions.

[hellodolly]

Why don't you enlighten us about the Red Shirts then? After all, we naive people only see them as a bunch of thugs and gangsters who blindly follow a criminal and whose existence seem solely about getting paid to cause disruptions in Bangkok and asking for hand outs from the government. Yes we are naive!

"I don't think they understand democracy, the rule of law, or justice," Tul said, referring to the red-shirt leaders. "I hate those who incite people to kill one another - I wish they would simply die."

Red Sunday group leader Sombat Boonngam-anong was visibly upset by Tul's words.

Lol.... Touchy subject was it?

If you had a better understanding of the Red Shirt groups your statement would not be as naive as it appears.

To enlighten some one you must have knowledge of the subject your self.

Ergo he/she can't.

He/she will probably come up with some thing the Yellow shirts did or the Abhist led coalition did or didn't do.

Bottom line how do you enlighten and make look good a group led by Jutuporn?

[tomacht8]

Why they can not all agree to a law that requires a percentage breakdown of the household budget.
For example, the red have 60% of the vote and the yellow 40%.

Each fiscal year, each group will receive his pro rata budget.

Then even the best ideas would in the long run, prevail.

But what they do?

Since decades, the clientele that is in power, always tries to tear the total budget per se and leave nothing to the other.

So there will be always these distribution fights.

[chainarong]

It would always be preferable to have people power win the day and in most democracy's this is the norm, however the Thai styled democracy , formed partly to assist corruption and evaded the law, has not a chance in hades to survive a coup, the way everything is structured around the democracy document ,always points to the junta era, the possibility of another coup is always in the back ground and of course Thailand has many records of achievements , the amount of coups is just one of them.

[SOTIRIOS]

...precedent is..

..big bucks buys demonstrators....the most recent red shirt event was 700 baht a head...

...the Thais who are against the government and corruption...demonstrate for free.....

....the former, furthermore...hire armed thugs...men in black.....with all manner of weapons....

...the latter get beat up or busted for speaking their minds...singing...clapping....carrying whistles........

(..easy to see where the violence stems from...it would seem...)

...one side is trying to continually rape the country....the other side is trying to save it....

[ramrod711]

Both anti- and pro-government activists were also at the meeting, organised by Mahidol University's Institute of Human Rights and Peace Studies - however, they ended up exchanging fierce words.

Almost all the news stories that address the political situation in this country mention at least once that Thaksin is a highly divisive force in the country. Most people do not want to see anyone injured or killed, they don't want to see property destroyed. This government won a majority, however badly they may be performing, the people elected them. However, they have betrayed the public trust by trying to pass a bill that was not only unconstitutiona but immoral. Let them promise not to introduce any more laws that are aimed at bringing home the fugitive, and let them finish their term.

[easybullet3]

is this some kind of a joke? "Dhamma Army" ? !!!

so, a Monk is worried that people in his 'Spiritual Army' are getting upset and may "Act" on their emotions against the government?

Isn't that kind of Obvious? if he is sending lots of Monks to Anti-Government protests, then of course they will get angry (more than before).

Why would monks be at a rally anyway ?

Monks are supposed to be spiritually aware and following a path of awareness... (which is NOT at an Anti-Government Rally).

If they are at Demonstrations then it is obvious that their energy is going to get "diluted" by the thousands and thousands of angry people.

a few white specs of good energy is not really enough to convert thousands of specs of angry energy.

he has found out that it was the 'other way around',,, the thousands of specs of angry energy converted his few specs of good energy.

If he thought about his tactics better, he would have just gone there for a few hours at a time. and on random days.

(or,, break up his monks into groups and take 'shifts' in being at the protests).

he would not have subjected his Monks to being there all the time.

You obviously know nothing about the Dhamma Army, try reading up about the Asoke group before you make assumptions that anyone is sending monks to rallies.

That one monk is making statements that amount to asking everyone to be peaceful and not start any violence does not mean he is sending monks anywhere.

The Dhamma Army is not comprised solely of monks, I know this for a fact for my Mr's will be there with them this evening and I know someone else whose wife has been with them some time now.

When you have done your research then you will no longer have to make assumptions.

ok, I googled the "Dhamma Army" and really there is NOT much information at all.

and I found a few uninformative pages about "Dharma Army" (which I assume is the same thing).

- I found a really badly written article (by The Nation). it asks: "So what exactly is the Dharma Army?"

and then it goes on to explain absolutely nothing!

(thank you Nation Newspaper) !!

http://nationmultimedia.com/2006/02/21/politics/politics_20001284.php

- When I search directly for "Dharma Army" (and not Dhamma Army) I found this page which does a far better job of explaining what they are:

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0309/p07s02-woap.html

ok.. so now I understand what the Dharma Army is,, and I have re-read the article, I can see that there are in-fact NO MONKS at the rally. (I stand corrected).

But,, the essence of my email still makes sense... (at least, to me).

the leader of this Dharma Army seems upset that his fellow protesters are getting 'emotionally charged' in a negative way against the government.

i mean: isn't that BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS ???? how can he act as if he is surprised or upset?

you go to a rally against a government,, so of course you are going to get even more wound up about the cause.

it just seems nonsensical,, stating the obvious.

------

the best line from the whole thing is definitely:

>> "I hate those who incite people to kill one another - I wish they would simply die." !!!

I wonder if that was said exactly as written? or was there a few other deleted sentences between? but either way, it helps us to understand the lies that leaders speak (in order to help themselves over a hurdle).

------

One thing I am confused about is who is the actual leader of the Anti-Government Rallies?

from this article it says: "Tul Sitthisomwong, leader of the anti-government multi-coloured shirt movement"

- But in another article yesterday, it says that Suthep was organizing everything for the Anti-government Rallies and the 'Million people march'.

Who is in charge? or are they BOTH in charge ? are there any more also in charge ?

[spirit47]

It would always be preferable to have people power win the day and in most democracy's this is the norm, however the Thai styled democracy , formed partly to assist corruption and evaded the law, has not a chance in hades to survive a coup, the way everything is structured around the democracy document ,always points to the junta era, the possibility of another coup is always in the back ground and of course Thailand has many records of achievements , the amount of coups is just one of them.

About 70% think corruption is ok, if they can participate on it...They get, what they vote for, a fully corrupt Goverment.

Since they have a constitutional monarchy politicans fail to work for their land, but the reds are the peak.

[Robby nz]

Robby nz, on 24 Nov 2013 - 11:37, said:

Quote

is this some kind of a joke? "Dhamma Army" ? !!!

so, a Monk is worried that people in his 'Spiritual Army' are getting upset and may "Act" on their emotions against the government?

Isn't that kind of Obvious? if he is sending lots of Monks to Anti-Government protests, then of course they will get angry (more than before).

Why would monks be at a rally anyway ?

Monks are supposed to be spiritually aware and following a path of awareness... (which is NOT at an Anti-Government Rally).

If they are at Demonstrations then it is obvious that their energy is going to get "diluted" by the thousands and thousands of angry people.

a few white specs of good energy is not really enough to convert thousands of specs of angry energy.

he has found out that it was the 'other way around',,, the thousands of specs of angry energy converted his few specs of good energy.

If he thought about his tactics better, he would have just gone there for a few hours at a time. and on random days.

(or,, break up his monks into groups and take 'shifts' in being at the protests).

he would not have subjected his Monks to being there all the time.

You obviously know nothing about the Dhamma Army, try reading up about the Asoke group before you make assumptions that anyone is sending monks to rallies.

That one monk is making statements that amount to asking everyone to be peaceful and not start any violence does not mean he is sending monks anywhere.

The Dhamma Army is not comprised solely of monks, I know this for a fact for my Mr's will be there with them this evening and I know someone else whose wife has been with them some time now.

When you have done your research then you will no longer have to make assumptions.

ok, I googled the "Dhamma Army" and really there is NOT much information at all.

and I found a few uninformative pages about "Dharma Army" (which I assume is the same thing).

- I found a really badly written article (by The Nation). it asks: "So what exactly is the Dharma Army?"

and then it goes on to explain absolutely nothing!

(thank you Nation Newspaper) !!

http://nationmultime...cs_20001284.php

- When I search directly for "Dharma Army" (and not Dhamma Army) I found this page which does a far better job of explaining what they are:

http://www.csmonitor...07s02-woap.html

ok.. so now I understand what the Dharma Army is,, and I have re-read the article, I can see that there are in-fact NO MONKS at the rally. (I stand corrected).

But,, the essence of my email still makes sense... (at least, to me).

the leader of this Dharma Army seems upset that his fellow protesters are getting 'emotionally charged' in a negative way against the government.

i mean: isn't that BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS ???? how can he act as if he is surprised or upset?

you go to a rally against a government,, so of course you are going to get even more wound up about the cause.

it just seems nonsensical,, stating the obvious.

------

the best line from the whole thing is definitely:

>> "I hate those who incite people to kill one another - I wish they would simply die." !!!

I wonder if that was said exactly as written? or was there a few other deleted sentences between? but either way, it helps us to understand the lies that leaders speak (in order to help themselves over a hurdle).

------

One thing I am confused about is who is the actual leader of the Anti-Government Rallies?

from this article it says: "Tul Sitthisomwong, leader of the anti-government multi-coloured shirt movement"

- But in another article yesterday, it says that Suthep was organizing everything for the Anti-government Rallies and the 'Million people march'.

Who is in charge? or are they BOTH in charge ? are there any more also in charge ?

I may not have made myself clear.

What you want to be looking for is the Santi Asoke movement the Dhamma Army is a group formed from followers of Santi Asoke who believe that The present Govt has overstepped the bounds and they want to be in there voicing their objections.

There is plenty of information out there about the group and what the stand for and what they do.

As for who is the leader ; There has been several groups each doing their own thing in different parts of the city, each obviously has a leader.

These groups have now agreed to get together, however if I understand correctly they still retain their own identity.

[fasteddie]

...precedent is..

..big bucks buys demonstrators....the most recent red shirt event was 700 baht a head...

...the Thais who are against the government and corruption...demonstrate for free.....

....the former, furthermore...hire armed thugs...men in black.....with all manner of weapons....

...the latter get beat up or busted for speaking their minds...singing...clapping....carrying whistles........

(..easy to see where the violence stems from...it would seem...)

...one side is trying to continually rape the country....the other side is trying to save it....

".the other side is trying to save it.."

Yes! for themselves.

[Muhendis]

It is truly another sad day for Thai Politics. It seem that it will be very difficult to find a peaceful solution to this conflict. I believe that if the PM needs to call for new elections and hopefully someone with No connection to Thaksin and someone willing to work for All the people of Thailand, not just one side. Yes this would be difficult to achieve.

Yes it is wishful thinking. Oh Well...

Agreed. Dream On!

[fab4]

Why don't you enlighten us about the Red Shirts then? After all, we naive people only see them as a bunch of thugs and gangsters who blindly follow a criminal and whose existence seem solely about getting paid to cause disruptions in Bangkok and asking for hand outs from the government. Yes we are naive!

"I don't think they understand democracy, the rule of law, or justice," Tul said, referring to the red-shirt leaders. "I hate those who incite people to kill one another - I wish they would simply die."

Red Sunday group leader Sombat Boonngam-anong was visibly upset by Tul's words.

Lol.... Touchy subject was it?

If you had a better understanding of the Red Shirt groups your statement would not be as naive as it appears.

Well it's not hard to find out about Sombat and his stance on violence, but obviously for some people it is.

[fab4]

Why don't you enlighten us about the Red Shirts then? After all, we naive people only see them as a bunch of thugs and gangsters who blindly follow a criminal and whose existence seem solely about getting paid to cause disruptions in Bangkok and asking for hand outs from the government. Yes we are naive!

"I don't think they understand democracy, the rule of law, or justice," Tul said, referring to the red-shirt leaders. "I hate those who incite people to kill one another - I wish they would simply die."

Red Sunday group leader Sombat Boonngam-anong was visibly upset by Tul's words.

Lol.... Touchy subject was it?

If you had a better understanding of the Red Shirt groups your statement would not be as naive as it appears.

To enlighten some one you must have knowledge of the subject your self.

Ergo he/she can't.

He/she will probably come up with some thing the Yellow shirts did or the Abhist led coalition did or didn't do.

Bottom line how do you enlighten and make look good a group led by Jutuporn?

If the UDD comprised one single group led by Jatuporn you might make sense. It doesn't and you don't.

[gerry1011]

They started a new round of protests... They made hate speeches on the stage... They wanted to overthrow an elected government... They put all the blame on the PT and the reds... , .... , .... then they say "I hate those who incite people to kill one another - I wish they would simply die." Uh ??? What? Now we have to hear that the reds incite them to kiil one another??? I did not know they were THAT ... uhm... I don't find a word polite enough to describe them.
And now that it has indeed escalated, some people come up with the very bright idea of "stopping the escalation" Uh? You did not see this escalation arrive? It was quite obvious it would though...
What were they thinking? That an elected governement would just say "sorry guys, you are right, we hand over the power to you", and that the people who elected this government would just stay nicely and quietly at home?
People are quite amazing. Promoting all these protests, then putting the blame on the others, then asking themselves how to stop the escalation
Amazing...