World powers reach deal with Iran on nuclear program

[Morch]

They pretty much said this 6 month agreement is not a blueprint for the final one, so in this sense it's not the real deal.

Why the assumption that there is no timetable for implementing agreed upon measures?

I'm guessing that both the USA and Irani representatives need to make sure the deal is accepted on their respective home fronts (USA with the possibility of enacting further sanctions, Iran vs, Revolutionary guard & Khamenei) before it actually goes into motion.

Unless much mistaken, Iran's stockpile of enriched uranium is already substantial, so might be a bit too late for that anyway. The thing to watch for, in my opinion, is the Arak facility - that goes live and it's a whole different ball game.

[folium]

Not Iran. Iran's illegal nuclear weapons program.

It is somewhat pointless to bang on about "illegal nuclear weapons programmes", when Israel set the bar in the Middle East for this event long ago.

There are 9 nuclear equipped nations today: USA, Russia, China, UK, France, India, Pakistan, N.Korea & Israel. There are 4 ex-nuclear states, S.Africa, Belarus, Kazakhstan and Ukraine.

Since their only useage in August 1945, no nation has pushed the button, simply because everyone is aware just what they represent. Perhaps you could argue that nuclear weapons are the most effective peacekeeper ever invented. MAD is a powerful religion.

[folium]

There isn't actually a deal, just a list of ideas without even a timetable to implement them. Only if and when a timetable is agreed does the six month clock on Iranian compliance begin, though this has not stopped Iranian assets being unfrozen, meanwhile the centrifuges still spin now enriching Uranium to 5% as oppose to the 3.5% hitherto admitted to. There is no mention either of inspections at Iran's weapons testing facility at Parchin. Little wonder Canada has severe doubts.

All in all this non deal was a shabby sellout making war much more likely, but by then I guess the potus will be practicing extricating himself from golf course bunkers, accompanied as always by his faithful Portuguese water dog.

John Bolton is correct, this is an act of abject surrender by the most incompetent deceitful president ever to disgrace the Oval office.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/abject-surrender-united-states_768140.html

and there's more.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2866159793001/amb-bolton-exposes-flaws-in-nuclear-agreement-with-iran/

John Bolton, the renowned chickenhawk, who fulfilled his patriotic duty by serving in the Maryland National Guard rather than putting his precious behind on the line in Vietnam with the commonfolk and those less economically fortunate. Cuban biological weapons and Iraq's yellowcake amongst other dangerous deceits, and now he is supposed to be an oracle on shameful political acts. At least he has first hand experience of such deeds. Who's son and daughter does he want to send off to get killed this time on some delusional wildgoose chase?

[Ulysses G.]

It is somewhat pointless to bang on about "illegal nuclear weapons programmes", when Israel set the bar in the Middle East for this event long ago.

What nonsense. Israel's nukes are about as "illegal" as the USA and Russia's. Israel developed it's weapons before the non-proliferation treaty came into being and they did not sign it. The IAEA — and the UN — have no authority over Israel’s nuclear capability.

Iran, on the other hand, DID sign the NPT. It is required to permit IAEA inspections of its nuclear installations and, so far, Tehran is not letting them have unfettered access to all of the country’s nuclear installations.

Iran's nuclear weapon's program is illegal.

[Scott]

Thank you for the clarification, UG. Now let's stay on the topic of Iran.

[meechai]

In regards to Iran & the oft cited NPT agreement.

It is important to remember the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty is

a twofold agreement.

"The Treaty was conceived with an objective to prevent nuclear proliferation,

work towards full disarmament and promote the peaceful use of nuclear technology.

The non-nuclear members states of NPT had agreed not to acquire nuclear weapons

and the nuclear member states had pledged to promote the peaceful use of nuclear

technology and take determined steps towards total nuclear disarmament."

It would be one sided to only enforce half of it when some signatory countries have long

been in violation of the other half.

Edited November 27, 2013 by meechai

[Credo]

If you think other's are not in compliance, then it's OK for Iran to be in noncompliance? Two wrongs make a right?

The nonsensical part of all of this is that nuclear weapons are probably more of a scare factor than an effective weapon. There are much better and much more precise weapons than the nuclear bomb. Nuclear weapons can bring about massive destruction, which is usually what is no longer needed with today's technology and the ability to pinpoint locations with satellites.

I must admit, however, if I were a small non-Muslim country in the ME who was directly threatened by them, I would be very nervous and keep a close eye on them.

[midas]

If you think other's are not in compliance, then it's OK for Iran to be in noncompliance? Two wrongs make a right?

The nonsensical part of all of this is that nuclear weapons are probably more of a scare factor than an effective weapon. There are much better and much more precise weapons than the nuclear bomb. Nuclear weapons can bring about massive destruction, which is usually what is no longer needed with today's technology and the ability to pinpoint locations with satellites.

I must admit, however, if I were a small non-Muslim country in the ME who was directly threatened by them, I would be very nervous and keep a close eye on them.

The potential of going back to the dark ages is scary

http://www.timesofisrael.com/an-electro-magnetic-pulse-attack-the-other-iranian-nuclear-threat/

[Credo]

The effect of electrical impulses caused by nuclear explosions is well known, but not necessarily well understood. The US military has done some research on it because if you think it does a lot of damage to appliances, you should see what it is capable of doing to computers, servers and the internet system. Basically, there isn't much left of communications when this is done.

Unless/until they actually have detonated a few of these, I don't know if they are going to have the know-how to accomplish this. I am a little more afraid of them going for the full force of a nuclear blast.

Hopefully, they will comply with the terms and this is all going to be idle speculation.

[Steely Dan]

The effect of electrical impulses caused by nuclear explosions is well known, but not necessarily well understood. The US military has done some research on it because if you think it does a lot of damage to appliances, you should see what it is capable of doing to computers, servers and the internet system. Basically, there isn't much left of communications when this is done.

Unless/until they actually have detonated a few of these, I don't know if they are going to have the know-how to accomplish this. I am a little more afraid of them going for the full force of a nuclear blast.

Hopefully, they will comply with the terms and this is all going to be idle speculation.

I hope you are right; how could one browbeat delusional leftists if a nuclear conflagration takes out the internet. There are many Democrats in the U.S unhappy over the Iran capitulation, only the die-hard delusional progressive ideologues believe the current miasma will give way to a clear demonstrable disarmament by Iran.

At least there can be no more pretending for Israel, they stand alone and the current sham of a deal is imho cynically designed to make it diplomatically even more difficult for them to act unilaterally, but act they must or they are history.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/2013/dgreenfield/why-obamas-iran-nuke-deal-is-a-good-thing/

Obama was never going to stop Iran from going nuclear, but his promises gave people who should have known better, including American Jewish leaders and the Prime Minister of Israel, the idea that he would stand firm.

“Iran’s leaders should understand that I do not have a policy of containment; I have a policy to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon,” Obama said last year. “Rest assured that the Iranian government will know our resolve and that our coordination with Israel will continue.”

And then he completely cuts Israel out of the loop - You can keep your old policy/Country if you are happy with it. At least he lies consistently.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Steely Dan

[Steely Dan]

There isn't actually a deal, just a list of ideas without even a timetable to implement them. Only if and when a timetable is agreed does the six month clock on Iranian compliance begin, though this has not stopped Iranian assets being unfrozen, meanwhile the centrifuges still spin now enriching Uranium to 5% as oppose to the 3.5% hitherto admitted to. There is no mention either of inspections at Iran's weapons testing facility at Parchin. Little wonder Canada has severe doubts.

All in all this non deal was a shabby sellout making war much more likely, but by then I guess the potus will be practicing extricating himself from golf course bunkers, accompanied as always by his faithful Portuguese water dog.

John Bolton is correct, this is an act of abject surrender by the most incompetent deceitful president ever to disgrace the Oval office.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/abject-surrender-united-states_768140.html

and there's more.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/2866159793001/amb-bolton-exposes-flaws-in-nuclear-agreement-with-iran/

John Bolton, the renowned chickenhawk, who fulfilled his patriotic duty by serving in the Maryland National Guard rather than putting his precious behind on the line in Vietnam with the commonfolk and those less economically fortunate. Cuban biological weapons and Iraq's yellowcake amongst other dangerous deceits, and now he is supposed to be an oracle on shameful political acts. At least he has first hand experience of such deeds. Who's son and daughter does he want to send off to get killed this time on some delusional wildgoose chase?

Just to remind people of tactic 2, which you demonstrated perfectly.

2) Criticize the source, as if doing so magically alters material facts.

Now that I've cleared that one up would you care to comment on John Bolton's take regarding the concessions that Iran supposedly made?

[shariq607]

It is somewhat pointless to bang on about "illegal nuclear weapons programmes", when Israel set the bar in the Middle East for this event long ago.

What nonsense. Israel's nukes are about as "illegal" as the USA and Russia's. Israel developed it's weapons before the non-proliferation treaty came into being and they did not sign it. The IAEA — and the UN — have no authority over Israel’s nuclear capability.

Iran, on the other hand, DID sign the NPT. It is required to permit IAEA inspections of its nuclear installations and, so far, Tehran is not letting them have unfettered access to all of the country’s nuclear installations.

Iran's nuclear weapon's program is illegal.

How can something be illegal when it does even exist? clearly you are making assumptions based on no evidence ,logic or scientific research. you are quoting IAEA yet then why dont you go read all the annual Iranian reports by them from 2003 all the way to the latest one today? 3.5% uranium enrichment, 5% and even 20% is no where near the threshold of 90% enrichment required to produce a nuclear weapon and even if Iran tries to enrich uranium above 20% it can and will easily be able to be detected by the IAEA inspections.

and yes Iran has almost totally converted its stockpile of uranium enriched to 20% into a powder dried form (IAEA report and acknowledgement) which makes it impossible to be used for weapons and it is also impossible to reverse the process of conversion of uranium powder back to its original state needed for creating a bomb.

Edited November 27, 2013 by shariq607

[Ulysses G.]

More nonsense. Why do you keep attempting to post false propaganda? The fuel is easily coverted back to usable fuel at 20% and it is not difficult to go from there to 90%.

What do we get in return? I just heard the Secretary of State say were going to get a destruction of the 20 percent uranium. That is simply untrue. Whats going to happen is the 20 percent enriched uranium is going to be turned into an oxide so its inoperative. That process is completely chemically reversible, which means Iran holds on to its 20 percent uranium and can turn it into active stuff any time it wants.

This is a sham from beginning to end. Its the worst deal since Munich.

Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/11/25/krauthammer-iran-nuclear-agreement-its-worst-deal-munich#ixzz2lqYiBa11

Edited November 27, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[NeverSure]

Iranian nuclear program agreement was a victory for us peace lovers who prefer diplomacy and a defeat for the warmongers.

For now.

[folium]

Iranian nuclear program agreement was a victory for us peace lovers who prefer diplomacy and a defeat for the warmongers.

For now.

And for all those concerned about needless loss of life, let's just hope it's for a lot longer than "for now".

[NeverSure]

Iranian nuclear program agreement was a victory for us peace lovers who prefer diplomacy and a defeat for the warmongers.

For now.

And for all those concerned about needless loss of life, let's just hope it's for a lot longer than "for now".

Some of us who are concerned about needless loss of life don't want Iran to get the bomb because they've promised to use it.

There is enough muscle within the Western negotiating group to just go in and take that stuff without a fight.

[Chicog]

This doesn't bode well....

Tensions in Iran on the rise

Posted on » Thursday, December 12, 2013

DUBAI: The commander of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guard force has criticised the government of President Hassan Rouhani as being under the influence of Western ideas, a sign of the growing tensions between competing power centres.

Major General Mohammad Jafari's comments are some of the sharpest to be made by a senior official in public since the moderate Rouhani took office in August.

The government's diplomatic initiative led to an agreement with six world powers last month under which Iran is to curb its disputed nuclear programme in return for limited relief fro

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=366683

[NeverSure]

This doesn't bode well....

Tensions in Iran on the rise

Posted on » Thursday, December 12, 2013

DUBAI: The commander of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guard force has criticised the government of President Hassan Rouhani as being under the influence of Western ideas, a sign of the growing tensions between competing power centres.

Major General Mohammad Jafari's comments are some of the sharpest to be made by a senior official in public since the moderate Rouhani took office in August.

The government's diplomatic initiative led to an agreement with six world powers last month under which Iran is to curb its disputed nuclear programme in return for limited relief fro

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=366683

Iran is actually run by the religious leaders who are extremists. The average citizen is a pretty decent person. The citizens tried to protest and were shot in the streets. Rouhani is a figurehead. The "West" are suckers.

[Chicog]

This doesn't bode well....

Tensions in Iran on the rise

Posted on » Thursday, December 12, 2013

DUBAI: The commander of Iran's elite Revolutionary Guard force has criticised the government of President Hassan Rouhani as being under the influence of Western ideas, a sign of the growing tensions between competing power centres.

Major General Mohammad Jafari's comments are some of the sharpest to be made by a senior official in public since the moderate Rouhani took office in August.

The government's diplomatic initiative led to an agreement with six world powers last month under which Iran is to curb its disputed nuclear programme in return for limited relief fro

http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/NewsDetails.aspx?storyid=366683

Iran is actually run by the religious leaders who are extremists. The average citizen is a pretty decent person. The citizens tried to protest and were shot in the streets. Rouhani is a figurehead. The "West" are suckers.

The "religious leaders" you speak of vet every potential candidate for office, so they can't complain.

However, this is the military, who you don't piss off if you want to retain power.

[DavyJones88]

hopefully Iran already has "the bomb", personally I hope they have several just in case they are unjustly attacked. Saudi and Israel/US are the real "bad guys" in the region as is painfully obvious to rational minded people. Being the bad bullies that they are they don't want an enemy that can actually fight back. Iran would be stupid not to have the capability to decimate these bullies in a counter attack. I hope Hezbollah has some small nukes or at least some very bad chemical weapons waiting ready to bloody the nose of a belligerent Israeli aggression against Iran.

If the US is foolish enough to engage Iran in another act of illegal terroristic aggression then I hope they pay dearly with the loss of many naval ships, and hopefully at least an aircraft carrier.

The Mid east may be a nice place without the festering wounds of Saudi Arabia, Israel, and the Us.

[Jay Sata]

There appears to be a line of thinking that ignores one countries nuclear capability in the region while UN inspectors monitor Iran.

[Ulysses G.]

Iran is the country that is developing nuclear weapons illegally and they are the biggest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Allowing them to get away with it would be sheer lunacy. The civilized world needs to ramp up the sanctions and be willing to use military force if the rogue nation of Iran does not give up it's nuclear weapons program completely per the Non-Proliferation Treaty that they signed..

Edited December 13, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[sirineou]

Iran is offering a lot more than other powers in the region who already have nuclear weapons but deny access to inspectors.

Only other powers do not threaten its neighbors, nor do they send their army to fight someone else war or finance it

you are kidding right?

[Scott]

I would strongly suggest that posters stay on topic. The topic is Iran and it's nuclear program. Other countries are off-topic.

[Jay Sata]

Iran is the country that is developing nuclear weapons illegally and they are the biggest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Allowing them to get away with it would be sheer lunacy. The civilized world needs to ramp up the sanctions and be willing to use military force if the rogue nation of Iran does not give up it's nuclear weapons program completely per the Non-Proliferation Treaty that they signed..

Iran maintains it's nuclear programme is of a civil nature and is designed to generate electricity. Although being a major oil producer it has very little refining ability. It has been quite open and allowed access to UN inspectors unlike other parts of the region which deny access or admit to nuclear weapon capability.

Other countries in the region ramp up the rhetoric with the sole intention of keeping the US dollar flooding in to support a non existent threat.

Why would Iran want to go to war with some of it's small poor neighbours when it sits on massive oil reserves?

Iran has not invaded another country for a couple of hundred years.

What we have here is another Iraq scare where Bush,Rumsfeld,Cheney and Blair destabilised the region with threats of non existent nuclear weapons.

As for your statement...

*Inflammatory off-topic remark edited out*

Edited December 13, 2013 by Scott

[Scott]

A post has been edited. If you want your post to remain, please don't add inflammatory, off-topic remarks.

[Jay Sata]

It's impossible to discuss this topic outside of the politics of the region. Better just lock it now.

[Ulysses G.]

Why would Iran want to go to war with some of it's small poor neighbours when it sits on massive oil reserves?

The same reason that they have been threatening their neighbors and sponsoring terrorism for decades. Iran is a detestable Islamic theocracy that intends to control the entire Middle East and they are developing nuclear weapons to that end - contrary to the Non-Proliferation Treaty that they have signed.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Ulysses G.

[Scott]

It's impossible to discuss this topic outside of the politics of the region. Better just lock it now.

I doubt that it's impossible to discuss the topic and include the regional politics in a fair, balanced and factual manner, but, of course, that would require posters to drop their personal agendas.

.....Up to you.

[Jay Sata]

Personal agendas play a great role in the regions politics.

I don't see the US getting involved in Zimbabwe and it's dictatorship but then Zim is not a major oil supplier.

Certain countries in the Middle East play a major role in US policy re Iran.