Bangkok - Descent into chaos

[wilcopops]

Bring in the military; the children have gotten out of hand.

....and then what?

[Globeman]

problem with an election is that Yingluck would be re elected. They have the money to pay for the votes needed. I think most people would like the whole Shinawatra clan out of Thailand for good

If "most people" wanted them out, they wouldn't keep winning elections, would they?

[arnold40844]

It would be good if you could elaborate a bit more on why you think it its such a bad idea... or is that all you have got?

They have a semi-direct democracy in Switzerland. Sounds kinda dirty but it works.

is this just a fear of technology? We must use feather and quill to cast our votes... sort of thing.

No it's not. A responsible government gives the country what it needs, which is often far from what it wants. If somebody proposes something which is immensely popular to more than 50% of the people but which will ruin the country, in a direct democracy it is much more likely to be enacted. Of course in representative democracy the same thing can happen if the government is more interested in gaining or maintaining power than responsible management. Google 'rice scam' for a perfect example.

I see what you're saying. I just think modern representative governments are basically dressed up dictatorships. or at least an amalgamation of the two concepts. Like I said, maybe it is not a good idea to put the fate of a country in the hands of the people, it would be exciting though! We may vote to abolish the corrupt monetary system or not go to war or maybe we would all just decide to invade Poland. You are probably right, we need to be governed, led etc. I'm just sick to death of lying cheating democrats doing "what's best for the country" whilst lining their pockets with more money on one term than most people make in 300 life times.

[arnold40844]

I would suggest that he has more proof that they are "professional office workers and students" than you have that they "behave like fascist hooligans".

Yesterday I saw lots of the live footage with closeups. The "professional office workers and students" I saw were grim looking rough types. Really tough guys with long hair and lots of tattoos and missing teeth. The type of people like the Red Shirt supporters the Democrat party has a history of hiring when they need to rent a mob. More according to Deputy Democrat party leader Alongkorn Ponlaboot

here: bit.ly/1jasbpq

Well i know some of them, I live with one of them. She graduated from thammasat with a degree in social studies. not quite sure what you mean by proof. I did not say the were all students and office workers, i was just saying they are not all toothless maniacs with nothing better to do.

Yet again you move the goalposts . . . and just because you know one person who isn't a hooligan doesn't support your assertion that 'most of them are professional office workers and students'.

I did not move the goalposts Sling Sling, its a stupid argument. i just don't agree with throwing insults at large groups of people for standing up for what they think is right. Sometimes this is the only way to get things done unfortunately.

My sympathy goes out to the family of the 21 year-old student of Ramkhamhaeng University who was shot dead yesterday.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed, please stay on topic.

[khunken]

Soon the Thaksin family will stand accused of the traffic accidents in Thailand and of the extreme weather this year. Seems to me all other charges already on file. It's amazing what and how much knowledge members of this forum have on this man and his family

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Traffic is no longer a problem in Bangkok after Thaksin pledged to solve all traffic woes within 6 months in 1996. Job done.

When was it that Thaksin initiated his traffic light solution to traffic jams? The one where he promised to solve everything by making the green lights last longer.

From memory it was in 1996 or 1997. He was a minister in Chavalit's government that managed to bring the country to it's knees (Tom Yam crisis) in 1997.

It's true that no government here has been close to squeaky clean but there's also no doubt that Thaksin brought corruption & nepotism to a new level. Both police and military have had clan members given rocket-propelled promotions to lead - far beyond their level of competence.

He also amended laws to benefit himself, his clan & his company (AIS) - something that no previous government was blatant enough to do. And some ignorant souls here think that the current crisis is not about the Shin clan.

In any real democracy, a government (or at least it's leader) would have resigned after their disastrous (temporary, unfortunately) amnesty bill failure followed by refusing to accept a court decision because it went against them. Here, in a sort of Thaksinocracy, the PM's brother refused to allow her or the government to resign. In real democracies a PM's resignation would trigger a vote within the governing (majority) party to elect a replacement. Here PTP have no such internal democracy - all are appointed by one person. Some democracy.

It is impossible for a party that has no concept of democracy internally to govern democratically. The country needs a pause to rid politics of the worst offenders (including dinosaurs such as Suthep) and a real sharp-fanged body to tackle corruption, including vote buying, before embarking on a real democratic course towards elections.

BTW I don't subscribe to the non-universal suffrage posted by some, neither do I subscribe to an all-elected senate unless the electors are somewhat different to those in a general election.

[Dogmatix]

Soon the Thaksin family will stand accused of the traffic accidents in Thailand and of the extreme weather this year. Seems to me all other charges already on file. It's amazing what and how much knowledge members of this forum have on this man and his family

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Traffic is no longer a problem in Bangkok after Thaksin pledged to solve all traffic woes within 6 months in 1996. Job done.

When was it that Thaksin initiated his traffic light solution to traffic jams? The one where he promised to solve everything by making the green lights last longer.

From memory it was in 1996 or 1997. He was a minister in Chavalit's government that managed to bring the country to it's knees (Tom Yam crisis) in 1997.

It's true that no government here has been close to squeaky clean but there's also no doubt that Thaksin brought corruption & nepotism to a new level. Both police and military have had clan members given rocket-propelled promotions to lead - far beyond their level of competence.

He also amended laws to benefit himself, his clan & his company (AIS) - something that no previous government was blatant enough to do. And some ignorant souls here think that the current crisis is not about the Shin clan.

In any real democracy, a government (or at least it's leader) would have resigned after their disastrous (temporary, unfortunately) amnesty bill failure followed by refusing to accept a court decision because it went against them. Here, in a sort of Thaksinocracy, the PM's brother refused to allow her or the government to resign. In real democracies a PM's resignation would trigger a vote within the governing (majority) party to elect a replacement. Here PTP have no such internal democracy - all are appointed by one person. Some democracy.

It is impossible for a party that has no concept of democracy internally to govern democratically. The country needs a pause to rid politics of the worst offenders (including dinosaurs such as Suthep) and a real sharp-fanged body to tackle corruption, including vote buying, before embarking on a real democratic course towards elections.

BTW I don't subscribe to the non-universal suffrage posted by some, neither do I subscribe to an all-elected senate unless the electors are somewhat different to those in a general election.

The main method used by Thaksin in solving Bangkok's traffic problem was to get his wife to give cash prizes to the cop in each station that wrote the most tickets each month instead of just taking bribes as usual. I remember the crowd at the Foreign Correspondent's Club gasping and then giggling when he announced this nonsense.

The Tom Yam Kung crisis was a windfall for him according some who claim he had advance warning and made a killing from shorting the baht.

[hawker9000]

One solution would have been the opposite of Amnesty, basically Amnestybusters with a new independent watchdog authority, appointed by representatives of a much-loved and magnificent person who is respected nationwide, this would cement the mandate for the anti-corruption team to go through Govt and other high-state apparatus with the proverbial chainsaw, cutting out anything and anybody that is even remotely corrupt.

This would be a long process. But it can be balanced out with new appointments of fresh law-abiding politicians.

Thaksin would be ordered again to return for his sentence. His family would pay the price of his refusal, legally and financially, since his family have shown they are just taking orders from him anyway, they can be classed as complicit and harboring.

End result is a very empty political sphere, slowly filling up with new players who are a lot more wary of scams and schemes. Ruled over by a regally-appointed law&order watchdog, with great big teefs <groawr>. New politicians come in and behave with respect, and within the law. The democratic process moves forward. The policy mechanism finally starts to function at its optimum potential. People dance and sing.The crowd goes wild.

Unhappily, I don't think these law-abiding politicians you're referring to are very easy to come by, anywhere in the whole wide world. Even when principled to begin with, the power and the access to public money just hasa way of turning them to the dark side. The answer isn't in new elections. Ever. Anywhere. The answer, the ONLY answer, is limited government. The socialist mob never wants to hear this, and are content to stand selfishly by and watch the downward spiral continue. Debt, chaos and corruption are the inevitable result. Welcome to Progressivism. Edited December 2, 2013 by hawker9000

[GeorgeO]

what happened two years ago is of little relevance to the political stage here in Thailand today.

It has everything to do with it.

Can't respond to the entire post as it exceeds the maximum number of quotes.

However,

1. Neither of us was wrong on the first point...! The population was 66.7 then, and currently stands at 69.5.

2. Okay, it was obviously flippant of me to refer to the entire population, but your rebuttal is a self-defeating argument; 48% is still not a majority, so as I initially stated, more people did not vote for her than did.

3. No, what happened two years ago does not have everything to do with it. They received votes based upon promises that they made, all of which have been reneged upon. If they stood again on the same promises, the people are clearly not going to fall for it again...!

[Bluespunk]

what happened two years ago is of little relevance to the political stage here in Thailand today.

It has everything to do with it.

Can't respond to the entire post as it exceeds the maximum number of quotes.

However,

1. Neither of us was wrong on the first point...! The population was 66.7 then, and currently stands at 69.5.

2. Okay, it was obviously flippant of me to refer to the entire population, but your rebuttal is a self-defeating argument; 48% is still not a majority, so as I initially stated, more people did not vote for her than did.

3. No, what happened two years ago does not have everything to do with it. They received votes based upon promises that they made, all of which have been reneged upon. If they stood again on the same promises, the people are clearly not going to fall for it again...!

Agree with most of your post GeorgeO, except unfortunately, I think they probably could win with the same promises again.

[bunuel]

Sorry,but you are living in a state of denial.

Whatever you think of the current government, you cannot deny it was democratically elected in 2011,

No democratically elected PM in any country would resign under this kind of duress.

In Western terms, what the opposition is trying to do is called a Putsch.

And, by all international standards , Putschists are anti-democratic,

If you have the people behind you,try winning an election instead of destroying the country you claim to love, That is what people do in more sophisticated countries, no matter what their differences!

quote name="GeorgeO" post="7109106" timestamp="1385942197"]

I don't like the fact that I predicted this outcome several weeks ago, as I always felt that the situation would become so dire that YL would have no option but to resign and call for new elections. In any other democracy in the world this would have happened weeks ago, as there is no point in trying to hold on to power when it is clear that a huge proportion of the population is against you.

Unfortunately, this is not a democracy at all, it is an autocracy created by a fugitive criminal who did not have the guts to return to his home country and 'face the music', but instead, felt that he could run the country from afar. Sitting in comfort in Dubai he will no doubt be telling his sister and his other well-paid employees to hang in there because victory is in sight. Sadly, he couldn't be further from the truth...!

What we currently have is a last ditch heavy-handed attempt to use the police to "appease" the crowd, but there is no appeasing this crowd. This government has to fall in order to end this, and the police have to withdraw before we start to see real civil war.

As I've said before, these people are not being paid to be there, they are there because they are passionate about their demand to see real democracy in this country. If TS and YL cannot see this, then they will go down in history as being responsible for the destruction of a once beautiful country.

[ratcatcher]

Sorry,but you are living in a state of denial.

Whatever you think of the current government, you cannot deny it was democratically elected in 2011,

No democratically elected PM in any country would resign under this kind of duress.

In Western terms, what the opposition is trying to do is called a Putsch.

And, by all international standards , Putschists are anti-democratic,

If you have the people behind you,try winning an election instead of destroying the country you claim to love, That is what people do in more sophisticated countries, no matter what their differences!

quote name="GeorgeO" post="7109106" timestamp="1385942197"]

I don't like the fact that I predicted this outcome several weeks ago, as I always felt that the situation would become so dire that YL would have no option but to resign and call for new elections. In any other democracy in the world this would have happened weeks ago, as there is no point in trying to hold on to power when it is clear that a huge proportion of the population is against you.

Unfortunately, this is not a democracy at all, it is an autocracy created by a fugitive criminal who did not have the guts to return to his home country and 'face the music', but instead, felt that he could run the country from afar. Sitting in comfort in Dubai he will no doubt be telling his sister and his other well-paid employees to hang in there because victory is in sight. Sadly, he couldn't be further from the truth...!

What we currently have is a last ditch heavy-handed attempt to use the police to "appease" the crowd, but there is no appeasing this crowd. This government has to fall in order to end this, and the police have to withdraw before we start to see real civil war.

As I've said before, these people are not being paid to be there, they are there because they are passionate about their demand to see real democracy in this country. If TS and YL cannot see this, then they will go down in history as being responsible for the destruction of a once beautiful country.

"Sorry,but you are living in a state of denial.'

So was President Mohamed Morsi!

[Spare]

I have a bad feeling that either the protesters or the police will move in when everyone is asleep in the middle of the night. And many people may be injured.

It is easier just surround the airport (don't enter the airport building). No pax can come/go, hence shut it by default.

[Timwin]

Thailand has a population of 66.79 million but if you look at the major cities:

Name, city, urban area:

1. Bangkok, 6513100, 8707900
2. Samut Prakan, 390300, 390300
3. Nonthaburi, 300200, 300200
4. Udon Thani, 227200, 227200
5. Korat, 210600, 210600

You see Bangkok is really really big but the rest of countries is just a huge set of small towns (total of 280). It would make sense to either divide Bangkok to smaller cities or make it Singapore like separate city country! The main problem is the political/economical power inequality between the mammoth Bangkok and the midget army of small towns.

Edited December 2, 2013 by Timwin

[SteveB2]

I seen this paying out for votes. It really works up in Isaan. One hundred percent.

100% true indeed!

Just in case any ones forgot... here's the video of red shirt government henchmen buying protesters with cash - lots of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv9Hpfb6gNE

That's a few hundred thousand baht in the guy’s hands, and this is just one village.

I should add that I have spent a lot of time in red shirt land, am fluent in both Thai and Laos/Isaan languages and know exactly &lt;deleted&gt; is going on here.

What is interesting about the current PDP government, is that it has trodden new ground - advancing beyond simple cash handout corruption at the ballot boxes into institutionalized vote buying on a massive countrywide scale, by promising to buy rice at a ludicrously high price - a.k.a. from simply buying votes into popularist politics. Thailand has now truly come of age.

The final price of the rice pricing fixing scheme so far, being approx 2% of Thailand’s GDP, or to better understand the scale of the expenditure, the rice-price vote buying scheme has cost the country around 50% of Thailand's entire income generated by tourism.

So let’s see how the next week or so plays out, and how much money the man in Dubai is willing to pay the red shirts to dodge bricks, bottles and eventually bullets from pissed off Bangkokians fighting on their home ground. One thing for sure, It’s gonna cost more than 200Baht per day per red-shirt protester for that type of commitment... and no one in Isaan land is going to handover their ID card for a thousand Baht with the "its a peaceful protest, you'll be back home in a few days" yarn as per the last calamity..

We live in interesting times... take care all...

Edited December 2, 2013 by SteveB2

[rubl]

Why would splitting Bangkok into separate administrative units have any effect on the current anti-government protests ?

Thailand has a population of 66.79 million but if you look at the major cities:

Name, city, urban area:

1. Bangkok, 6513100, 8707900
2. Samut Prakan, 390300, 390300
3. Nonthaburi, 300200, 300200
4. Udon Thani, 227200, 227200
5. Korat, 210600, 210600

You see Bangkok is really really big but the rest of countries is just a huge set of small towns. It would make sense to either divide Bangkok to smaller cities or make it Singapore like separate city country! The main problem is the political/economical power inequality between the mammoth Bangkok and the midget army of small towns.

[jackrich]

I seen this paying out for votes. It really works up in Isaan. One hundred percent.

100% True.

Just in case any ones forgot... here's the video of red shirt government henchmen buying protesters with cash - lots of it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pv9Hpfb6gNE

I should add that I have spent a lot of time in red shirt land, am fluent in both Thai and Laos/Isaan languages and know exactly &lt;deleted&gt; is going on here.

What is interesting about the current PDP government, is that it has trodden new ground - advancing beyond simple cash handouts at the ballot boxes into instituionalllized vote buying on a massive scale by promising to buy rice at a ludicrously high price - a.k.a. from simply buying votes into popularist politics. Thailand has now truly come of age.

The final price of the rice pricing fixing scheme so far, being approx 2% of Thailands GDP, or to better understand the scale of the expenditure, the rice-price vote buying scheme has cost the country around 50% of Thailand's entire income generated by tourism.

So lets see how the next week or so plays out, and how much money the man in Dubai is willing to pay the red shirts to dodge bricks, bottles and eventually bullets from pissed off Bangkokians fighting on their home ground. One thing for sure, Its gonna cost more than 200Baht per day per red-shirt protester for that type of commitment... and no one in Isaan land is going to handover their ID card for a thousand Baht with the "its a peaceful protest, you'll be back home in a few days" yarn as per the last calamity..

We live in interesting times... take care all...

You are living in dreamland if you think the Democrats don't buy votes. I live in the middle of Bangkok and they came through here with their blue Democrat trucks and asked my wife and family to vote for them and were handing out money if you agreed to vote for them and put a blue Democrat sticker on your front door.

That is in Bangkok, not in Isaan. And let's not forget that Democrats themselves were charged by the courts for vote buying, as well as Puea Thai. All parties in Thailand buy votes. If you really live here as long as you say, you know it. So please, speak the truth and don't stir one-sided hate.

Edited December 2, 2013 by jackrich

[arnold40844]

Its funny how the word democracy is thrown around these days. Does anyone even know what the word means? How can you call any country (especially the US) a democracy when everyone is just voting for a person to dictate for 4 years.

Democracy at its most fundamental level is about giving power of rule to the people, not giving power to the people to choose who rules them.... surely.

[Dogmatix]

Cartoon by Steph in today's The Nation.

It must be quite an accolade for him to know that he has been nominated by Red New Mandala for the worst cartoonist of the year award.

[mca]

What next I have to ask? Some segments of Thai society has learned that, if something doesn't go their way, that taking to the streets is the answer. Like a spoilt child screaming and screaming until it gets what it wants. All of them, no better than the other.

If Suthep succeeds in his aims what next. In the future when people once again take to the polls the same old cronyism, selfishness and patronage will rear its ugly head as ever. Then somebody will get in power who isn't one of the boys for the other group of bottom feeders and the whole shitfest will start all over again. I can never see a point in Thai politics where one side will accept that they lost or that just maybe the guy in power is right for the country. Too many selfish bastards where it's me first and f the rest. And of course whatever happens over the next few days Thaksin is still in the wings waiting to come home by whatever means necessary. He's not exactly going to say "Fair enough I give up" The genie is well and truly out of the bottle.

[Greer]

"Chemically treated water?" Wouldn't that be considered to be a weapon of mass destruction by the UN?

No not a weapon of mass destruction, but a Chemical Weapon - also outlawed under the UN and most international laws.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. Some quote only posts with no contribution have been removed as well.

[Greer]

What next I have to ask? Some segments of Thai society has learned that, if something doesn't go their way, that taking to the streets is the answer. Like a spoilt child screaming and screaming until it gets what it wants. All of them, no better than the other.

If Suthep succeeds in his aims what next. In the future when people once again take to the polls the same old cronyism, selfishness and patronage will rear its ugly head as ever. Then somebody will get in power who isn't one of the boys for the other group of bottom feeders and the whole shitfest will start all over again. I can never see a point in Thai politics where one side will accept that they lost or that just maybe the guy in power is right for the country. Too many selfish bastards where it's me first and f the rest. And of course whatever happens over the next few days Thaksin is still in the wings waiting to come home by whatever means necessary. He's not exactly going to say "Fair enough I give up" The genie is well and truly out of the bottle.

No you have to remember that this is a reaction built up over a long time due to a very real threat to the country - not just the whim of a few - you see millions who "don't like this" and are taking a stand.

The problem is that those observers outside don't see it the way we do from inside - because they think that the country can work as a democracy - obviously it doesn't, but not because it can't. Overseas the populace is generally well informed, and people usually have an idea of the rights and wrongs of all parties in an election - to some extent anyway. Here due to constant medling in the media, there are huge swathes of the country that know virtually nothing of the wrongs committed, but they get their 500 baht, and off they go to vote for the paymaster - whoever that may be on that occasion - so democracy is not a truth here, it is a lie, and unfortunately it's going to take a long time to fix the problems that beset the people.

[Equalizer]

I don't like the fact that I predicted this outcome several weeks ago, as I always felt that the situation would become so dire that YL would have no option but to resign and call for new elections. In any other democracy in the world this would have happened weeks ago, as there is no point in trying to hold on to power when it is clear that a huge proportion of the population is against you.

Unfortunately, this is not a democracy at all, it is an autocracy created by a fugitive criminal who did not have the guts to return to his home country and 'face the music', but instead, felt that he could run the country from afar. Sitting in comfort in Dubai he will no doubt be telling his sister and his other well-paid employees to hang in there because victory is in sight. Sadly, he couldn't be further from the truth...!

What we currently have is a last ditch heavy-handed attempt to use the police to "appease" the crowd, but there is no appeasing this crowd. This government has to fall in order to end this, and the police have to withdraw before we start to see real civil war.

As I've said before, these people are not being paid to be there, they are there because they are passionate about their demand to see real democracy in this country. If TS and YL cannot see this, then they will go down in history as being responsible for the destruction of a once beautiful country.

You are not seeing the point are you? More people here want Thaksin than do not. This is called a majority, This is called more votes and this is called democracy. You say a huge proportion of the population is against you. This is incorrect, the majority of people here love the fact that he is still involved with the politics here. You also say As I've said before, these people are not being paid to be there. Maybe that has something to do with the fact most are upper middle class, not the poor. I am neutral because it has nothing to do with me, however this guy who is pulling the strings with this protest could eventually have authority over the Army and the police and i feel that is a scary thought. The mans a nutter, and under the same circumstances at this point there would be thousands of innocent protesters dead littering the streets. .

[zydeco]

Big news at 8:30? "Good news," according to the protesters. Maybe it's all about to be over and the jet engines are warming up at the airport.

[Scott]

A troll post has been removed.

[DocN]

"Chemically treated water?" Wouldn't that be considered to be a weapon of mass destruction by the UN?

No not a weapon of mass destruction, but a Chemical Weapon - also outlawed under the UN and most international laws.

Just for my understanding: if you put chlorine into water, that makes the water chemically treated, right?!

Would that turn every swimming pool in the world into a potential threat?

Or doesn't it really depend with what the water is treated?

Just adding chemical x to water doesn't make it harmful.

Riot police often ads coloring to the water, to identify protesters later...and unless you are allergic to a certain kind of coloring, it will not harm you at all.

[hawker9000]

Its funny how the word democracy is thrown around these days. Does anyone even know what the word means? How can you call any country (especially the US) a democracy when everyone is just voting for a person to dictate for 4 years.

Democracy at its most fundamental level is about giving power of rule to the people, not giving power to the people to choose who rules them.... surely.

Slept thru the last 8 weeks of that political science class, did we? The U.S. (& all other contemporary democratic governments) are "republics", which is practically & simply speaking the only viable way to have a democracy in actual modern nations. Obviously, everybody can't directly vote on every issue - elected representatives have to do that if any real-time legislative action is going to occur. Even popular elections occurring only every few years get disputed for pete's sake. Go back and do some homework, and come back here & post when you can do it without parrotting something you heard up in your treehouse. The issue isn't with republics as governments. The issue is with the politicians who are those representatives. If their loyalties are to something other than the actual national welfare as well as their constituencies, then it all breaks down rather quickly. And those loyalties are always going to be divided, at best..., where so much power & money are involved. Always. Sooner or later. The only solution is to make it so there ISN'T so much money & power involved.

[philw]

Very well said. What Suthep is trying to do is to overthrow a democratically elected government through a coup. I guess the Democrats are tired of losing elections for the past 20+ years. Maybe they should start looking at themselves and see why people are not voting for them. Enforcing the will of 50,000 people (on a Sunday) on over 50,000,000 Thais is not Democracy.

I would love to see Suthep try this in the United States. Breaking into government buildings, burning buses, beating up taxi drivers, destroying state property, cutting electricity and turning off international internet links, blocking the biggest streets in the city. Try that in the United States and see if you can get away with it by only receiving tear gas and rubber bullets in return.

Most likely, in the United States, you would be arrested for even floating the idea of overthrowing the government, and certainly shot dead before you can even take the first government building.

The police has been VERY lenient here, but it has to stop somewhere before Suthep ruins the country even further.

Take a hint. If people don't vote for you, they don't want you.

If you get hurt by police now, it's your own fault. You've had plenty of time to go home.

For everyone that gets hurt, I have 3 words in Thai: Som nam na.

Ding! Ding! Ding! This is not the United States and an entirely different set of cultural norms and expectations enter into the issue of crowd control and inflicting of casualties.

Sure, let's have the establishment party, up holders of all good and proper values, connected to persons who cannot be spoken of, protectors of all things important,the self proclaimed moral, social, educated and financial elite of the Country, bolster their image by spraying faeces on the the Royal Thai Police.

It's guaranteed to win them the next election, a brilliant ploy.

God help us said Tiny Tim.............

[zydeco]

Listening to Chuwit being interviewed in English on Channel 9. Maybe the only person out there to trust solving the chaos.