Red shirts 'would fight any move to oust PM Yingluck'

[Scott]

Inflammatory posts and replies deleted. Let's leave Hitler out of this thread.

[redsunz]

Well, the Thais should just respect the voting result . It it the people's who voted in this government. King once said, Thailand belong to whole Thais , not just bangkok itself. If the government just give in to those yellow shirt and step down, what's the different of being a communist country? Suthep and gangs just don't get it.. Basically he brainwash everyone in bkk..

[sirchai]

Can't predict the weather, but I'm certain that it will get hotter in northeast soon. Buri Ram, Surin, Sisaket, Roi Et, Ubon Ratchathani. Still 98 % of our teachers are RED. Guess we know why.-

[winstonc]

The Shin clan is the total ruin of this country. This has to end, and soon.

But not with the government being overthrown with force and violence.

The only way is a Technical Government, with NO parties, NO politicians involved in it.

Reforms have to be done, Constitution rewritten. And no corruption involved. Only genuine love for Country and benefit for ALL people.

The problem is for Thailand this seems pure utopia.

thats the post that should be pushed over the net and on tv..but the pricks on either side of the political divide wont have that..the need to remail A listers is immense.you get my vote newcomer...

[winstonc]

The red shirts are ready to oppose any unconstitutional move to overthrow Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra by the military or other means, red-shirt co-leader and Pheu Thai Party-list MP Weng Tojirakarn said.

And when the government completely ignores the constitution to try and bring back the fugitive, that's just fine is it ? They hide behind the constitution and 'democracy' when it suits them and piss on the constitution when it gets in their way. PURE HIPPOCRACY AT ITS WORST !

and instead of exposing the government's obvious flaws and defeating them in elections allowing for victory and a peaceful / stable outcome, the opposition tries to use smash its way to power through brute force in a way that will just create anger and more violence PURE RHINOCRACY AT ITS WORST!

have a chat with yourself..what stait would the country be in if it was left to carry on for the next 2 years please be real.its ok for us foreigners to go on but were not the thais who are going to be paying for all this big pile of <deleted> ..im sorry but there is a much bigger picture than just thaksin and the dems..

[rubl]

Well, the Thais should just respect the voting result . It it the people's who voted in this government. King once said, Thailand belong to whole Thais , not just bangkok itself. If the government just give in to those yellow shirt and step down, what's the different of being a communist country? Suthep and gangs just don't get it.. Basically he brainwash everyone in bkk..

48% of the valid votes were cast for Pheu Thai. That gave them 265 seats out of 500 and the right to be the first to try to form a government.

The opposition parties got about 35 - 40% of the valid votes.

So, to say 'the people' is a wee bit misleading.

As for giving in, where were you in March - May 2010?

[NanLaew]

.... PURE HIPPOCRACY AT ITS WORST !

Pure what now?

[thailandpeter2]

i don't think it's over. although i'd estimate the strength of anti-government protesters at more then 180,000 people (i think up to 400,000 at the peak would be a fair guess), let's not forget that there had been some ten thousands' of reds in the rajamangala stadium until very recently too. so, they are surely not down to their last 1,000 people.

and what did suthep really win until now? symbolic victories at the metropolitan police hq and at government house. the government is still here; the arrest warrant for him still is valid; and he and abhisit are still called in to testify on december 12th about the charge resulting from the death of reds in 2010.

and even if yingluck has mentioned before that she would resign if that would help the situation, she can always change her mind still. and even if she will resign, when then? thaksin is still alive and kicking and i don't think that he will let all go easily.

also, in fact, nattawut was actually shown on tv too how he also ripped up suthep's paper.

i would be happy if all wold be over except for 'the formalities', but i don't believe it is... fr from that, i'd say.

There are those who try to belittle the strength of the anti-government movement, despite strong estimates of 180,000 attending their rallies at the peak. Here we have the remnants of the Red Shirt faithful, a crowd of 1,000 people telling themselves that they are going to overthrow this movement.

It's like something out of 300 Spartans, although the minority in this case would undoubtedly fall much more rapidly. I also note that Jatuporn and Nuttawat are not leading this rally. I wonder where they are now?

Guys, it's all over apart from the formalities.

Khun Surapong, Suthep is not going to surrender any more than your beloved criminal in exile is, so the movement will continue to push for the dissolution of this vile, self-serving group, loosely referred to as a "government", a point when we shall see many of these thieves with bloated bank accounts disappearing to various bolt holes.

Power to the people.....!!

[thailandpeter2]

i like RHINOCRACY...

could be used as a new word for ruling by smashing all... like a furious rhino...:)

The red shirts are ready to oppose any unconstitutional move to overthrow Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra by the military or other means, red-shirt co-leader and Pheu Thai Party-list MP Weng Tojirakarn said.

And when the government completely ignores the constitution to try and bring back the fugitive, that's just fine is it ? They hide behind the constitution and 'democracy' when it suits them and piss on the constitution when it gets in their way. PURE HIPPOCRACY AT ITS WORST !

and instead of exposing the government's obvious flaws and defeating them in elections allowing for victory and a peaceful / stable outcome, the opposition tries to use smash its way to power through brute force in a way that will just create anger and more violence PURE RHINOCRACY AT ITS WORST!

have a chat with yourself..what stait would the country be in if it was left to carry on for the next 2 years please be real.its ok for us foreigners to go on but were not the thais who are going to be paying for all this big pile of <deleted> ..im sorry but there is a much bigger picture than just thaksin and the dems..

[smileydude]

So we have a stalemate. Not surprising considering the arrogance and refusal to compromise.

So what can be compromised? Thaksin not returning? Thaksin returning and everyone accepting that he be pardoned of all his wrongdoings?

Some principles are not negotiable. The reds will never accept Thaksin not being able to return. The non-reds will never accept Thaksin being absolved of all his crimes. I don't see anyway out unless someone budges.

So one man versus 11 million versus 15 million.

Who needs to make the sacrifice?

The other 40 million are waiting.

Edited December 4, 2013 by smileydude

[DGIE]

More than 1,000 red shirts in Buri Ram rally in support of the government yesterday.

What is the population of Buri Ram? Seems like the number is small.

[hansnl]

I think Yingluck will remain in power but any thing that even smells of Thaksin will bring on more demonstrations.

Even some of the red shirts are fed up with him.

Some red shirts?

Time for the "UDD" to change the ridiculous name.

Edited December 4, 2013 by hansnl

[thailandpeter2]

yes, i can fully agree with you. to compare the government and opposition parties here even remotely with any parties and their ideologies like in europe or the usa (socialists - conservatives; rebublicans - democrats, etc.) is absolutely not possible. also, members of one party often change parties at whim. i remember that the first ministerial post of thaksin was with the then palang dhamma party, of which chamlong srimuang was the leader - who had been a leader of the PAD vehemently opposing thaksin now. sondhi limthongkul even called thaksin once 'the best prime minister ever' - before the two men fell out because of business reasons. the bhum jai thai party, partners in abhisit's government, said before the last elections that they would want whoever party wins the elections (the phuea thai party did not accept hem as coalition partners, though)...

the list goes on...

and how long will the army stay impartial?

the students usually follow their policical instincts, not only the gravy train, that's good at least...

Who ever comes into power, must also give a piece of the Thai pie to the working poor and farmers, they are part of the country also. The Democrats when they held the reins of power failed to share the pie, look at the results of them being so shortsighted.

Thaskin's was willing to share the pie, what ever you think of him he knew that to build up a lasting political movement by including the largest voting block in the nation (the working poor and farmers) had also needs that needed to be addressed.

Thaskin downfall was that he was to greedy while he was willing to share Thailand's money, he was not willing to share his money with his political base. A man that had more money then he could possibly spend, had the laws revised so he would not have to pay billions of baht of taxes on his sale of the satellite.

Which resulted in the corruption charge and prison sentence!

The Thai Democrats much like the U.S. Republican party failed to address the needs of all its citizens and only addressed the needs of the rich and its conservative power base, and in the end will pay the price of their failure to meet the needs of all its citizens.

Cheers

Maybe you need to research what charges Thaksin was tried and cleared of, what he was tried and convicted off and what outstanding charges he has yet to face.

Comparing Thaksin and the Thai Democrat party to republicans and democrats, conservatives and labour or capitalists and communists doesn't really work. Thaksin has owned a number of political parties which he uses to run the country for the benefit of himself, his family corporation, his cronies and anyone he needs to pay off. To do this, he knows he must buy large amounts of votes at election times and throw the poor a few crumbs and bones now and then. The Democrats represent the old controlling family powers who regard themselves as the elite HiSo's and have created very wealthy business empires, based on exploiting low paid labour, protective monopolies and total regard for the law, which the place themselves above. They want to preserve this very aristocratic lifestyle and massive wealth for future generations. They don't throw the poor so many crumbs but certainly engage in vote buying. The "fringe" parties are usually owned and run by someone with a local power base and most seem willing to sell their loyalty to the highest bidder.

The average Thai voter has a great choice! Whilst both main parties will fight tooth and nail for the power (and the gravy train) neither have an interest in creating a real democracy, where people have real power over a fairly elected non corrupt fully accountable government. Both will only be interested in an outcome that favours themselves and their agendas. Thaksin is marginally more dangerous because he would be like Mugabe, with similar results for the country. The Dems - same same as before - no real change there.

The only spark of hope is the awakening of the students, and the intelligence and sensitivity shown by the current crop of military high command.

[oldsailor35]

Had nothing taken place and things were left running at the same pace for another 2 or more years, Thailand would NOT have had any money left, it would have been bankrupt with all the family gone far away leaving everybody destitute.

Just look at the infrastructure, starting with the NEW airport, outdated 5 years after it was built along with a vast number of corrupt buying of materials used.

The road surfaces-----railways rundown scrap----buses dangerous------Water/flood management (admitted) mismanagement ------- rice scam-------rubber--------PM missing from action too much to manage affairs------bills rushed through without time for debate------- the list is endless---add PTT--Thai Airways--TAT----- and the rest.

All this managed by an elected government full of (QUALIFIED ) persons at the helm in all government departments.

Suppose this is why we have the problems. Please leave out the other parties when replying -they have played no part in this S##t.

Yes but I have spent the last few years launching attacks on PTP and Yingluck, based on their obvious mafioso build and their contempt of Parliamentary procedure. I would go further and question Thaksin's international loyalties and how those influence the erosionist and velvet-glove communist-autocratic template that is visible (and commented on ad nauseum) to trained observers of the PTP.

However. Parliamentary regulatory overhaul is a normal procedure, there is no stone monolith somewhere with ancient rules on how to maintain a functioning parliamentary system, and it varies from nation to nation according to temperament and history. For example Northern Europe have a certain style of parliament which reflects their historical and cultural mindset. That can not be cut-pasted onto Thailand which has a very different history.

I would give the analogy of Thai parliament being a broken down car, you might have to get out and push it sometimes, take it for repairs, while you plan a full re-build of the core problem mechanisms. This is a lengthy process, but what Suthep did was a much quicker solution - just torch the car by the side of the road, while staring into the flames with this dreamy look on his face. The car needed TLC, and repairs, by a qualified mechanic lol. Not torching.

Just from my own perspective I watched PTP now for years and I lost count of the numbers of times when simple parliamentary regulation would have stopped their schemes dead, and forced Yingluck to not only attend parliament but to stand up and take the cut-thrust of debate in an adult and democratic manner. That is how progress is made. My problem is that this current Suthep situation is a giant step backwards from what was already a flawed manifestation of democracy.

Your analogy of the car is just about perfect, the best yet and sums up the situation 'to the tee' Well done.

[Zolt]

The Shin clan is the total ruin of this country. This has to end, and soon.

But not with the government being overthrown with force and violence.

The only way is a Technical Government, with NO parties, NO politicians involved in it.

Reforms have to be done, Constitution rewritten. And no corruption involved. Only genuine love for Country and benefit for ALL people.

The problem is for Thailand this seems pure utopia.

thats the post that should be pushed over the net and on tv..but the pricks on either side of the political divide wont have that..the need to remail A listers is immense.you get my vote newcomer...

Right, and the only casualties would be democracy and the current constitution. And the unelected government would be fair and above reproach, and cater equally to Bangkokians and the rest of the country. And the 48% of Thais who voted the current government in would just take this happily and smile, cause that's what their country is all about. And certainly the cycle of protests would never repeat again.

[Deez]

Who ever comes into power, must also give a piece of the Thai pie to the working poor and farmers, they are part of the country also. The Democrats when they held the reins of power failed to share the pie, look at the results of them being so shortsighted.

Thaskin's was willing to share the pie, what ever you think of him he knew that to build up a lasting political movement by including the largest voting block in the nation (the working poor and farmers) had also needs that needed to be addressed.

Thaskin downfall was that he was to greedy while he was willing to share Thailand's money, he was not willing to share his money with his political base. A man that had more money then he could possibly spend, had the laws revised so he would not have to pay billions of baht of taxes on his sale of the satellite.

Which resulted in the corruption charge and prison sentence!

The Thai Democrats much like the U.S. Republican party failed to address the needs of all its citizens and only addressed the needs of the rich and its conservative power base, and in the end will pay the price of their failure to meet the needs of all its citizens.

Cheers

Written better than most newspaper articles. Well said

[GinBoy2]

The problem is, Thailand's old elite (Suthep fits nicely) appears nostalgic for the days when the farmers of the north and northeast were docile and happy with their lot, at the bottom of a paternalistic system under a revered monarch. They seem to think the current problems can be solved by simply stripping these ignorant masses of their right to vote, given they consistently vote the wrong way. That is wishful thinking of the most dangerous type. Very similar to Egypt, voters did it wrong, so the army decided to 'correct' their error. That worked out out well didn't it!

[LingLek]

What we are witnessing is the death rattle of the conservatives that have ruled Thailand for the past 200 years.

The old families with close ties to the ancient power structure, with enormous wealth, with close family ties to the military who walk on the heads of ordinary Thais.

Who treat farmers and workers as mere chattels, who have raped the natural resources of the nation, who own just about everything.

They are responsible for the yellow shirts.

They know that if the workers and farmers become organised and elect their own leaders, instead of accepting these Democrat puppets, they lose everything.

They will use every dirty trick in the book including patriotism (the last refuge of the scoundrel) to cling on to power and keep the people ignorant.

That is why they have brought on the last coup, to get rid of the Thaksin and to install a puppet (Abhisit).

However, you can't put the genie back in the bottle, and the people have elected Yingluck.

No matter what anyone says about her brother, she was elected in an overwhelming victory and she is the leader.

Suthep is just a lackey for the old clique and he uses the Yellow shirts and patriotism as his weapons to try and force out a democratically elected government.

Can you imagine what would happen if someone tried the same tactics in the UK?

He would be arrested and locked away.

And so it will pass here too, the old clique trying hard to hang on, but they are on a losing game, the people have had enough of the old ways.

They want change and they want to have a say.

The issue of amnesty for Thaksin is a red herring, any excuse will do to keep the pot boiling, to get back into power.

If Thaksin died tomorrow there would be another excuse to try to force out Peu Thai.

They just don't want to live in a democracy where the law would apply to them equally.

Well said. I can only add that when Suthep claims to represent 'the people' he can only mean that self-serving minority you rightly call 'the old clique.' The people are the rural millions, the urban poor, and those who work for a living, often at subsistence level--the ones who elected the present government. But of course it was a mistake to have Yingluck as leader, simply because her family ties make that position inescapably dynastic and interested. All government should be free of familial relationships, precisely to avoid this sort of conflict. The right move now would be for her to stand aside, in favor of a less marked candidate.

[brit1984]

The red shirts are ready to oppose any unconstitutional move to overthrow Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra by the military or other means, red-shirt co-leader and Pheu Thai Party-list MP Weng Tojirakarn said.

And when the government completely ignores the constitution to try and bring back the fugitive, that's just fine is it ? They hide behind the constitution and 'democracy' when it suits them and piss on the constitution when it gets in their way. PURE HIPPOCRACY AT ITS WORST !

and instead of exposing the government's obvious flaws and defeating them in elections allowing for victory and a peaceful / stable outcome, the opposition tries to use smash its way to power through brute force in a way that will just create anger and more violence PURE RHINOCRACY AT ITS WORST!

You cannot expose more than they have already, because half the people don't understand as they have had Thai schooling that does NOT allow them to understand.

In northern England we have a saying " Ya can't put nowt where there int nowt "

and you think they will understand and accept that the government they voted had to be removed by the force of "peaceful protests"...?

the opposition only needs to convince 1 in 5 of pheu thai's voters to vote for them to gain the required swing (never mind that they could get some of the votes from those that didn't vote either way last time)... it really shouldn't be that difficult

[Zolt]

So we have a stalemate. Not surprising considering the arrogance and refusal to compromise.

So what can be compromised? Thaksin not returning? Thaksin returning and everyone accepting that he be pardoned of all his wrongdoings?

Some principles are not negotiable. The reds will never accept Thaksin not being able to return. The non-reds will never accept Thaksin being absolved of all his crimes. I don't see anyway out unless someone budges.

So one man versus 11 million versus 15 million.

Who needs to make the sacrifice?

The other 40 million are waiting.

I'm pretty sure the Reds are willing to compromise on Thaksin's return and drop the amnesty bill for good. It was a long shot anyway. Suthep on the other hand won't accept anything short of the whole PTP purged from Thai politics.

[outsider]

First, I think the police opened the gates not on their own free will, but under instructions from a 'higher and shadowy' figure. Highly speculative, but that's my personal view.

And now you have the Reds saying how sad they are about the protestors taking over the buildings etc. - these people just took over buildings and occupied them. They didn't ransack and burn the buildings like some pariahs did, although I have to say nobody is right here.

"... we do not want to kill people like what happened during the Abhisit Vejjajiva government. The other side also has bullets." - that's like losing a fight, walking away then turning back to say you are stopping the fight because you don't want to hurt the other person.

Lastly - "... red shirts won't accept a coup." - What are you going to do - figth the might of the army with farm equipment and tractors? Not that I condone or support a military-led coup.

[brit1984]

The red shirts are ready to oppose any unconstitutional move to overthrow Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra by the military or other means, red-shirt co-leader and Pheu Thai Party-list MP Weng Tojirakarn said.

And when the government completely ignores the constitution to try and bring back the fugitive, that's just fine is it ? They hide behind the constitution and 'democracy' when it suits them and piss on the constitution when it gets in their way. PURE HIPPOCRACY AT ITS WORST !

and instead of exposing the government's obvious flaws and defeating them in elections allowing for victory and a peaceful / stable outcome, the opposition tries to use smash its way to power through brute force in a way that will just create anger and more violence PURE RHINOCRACY AT ITS WORST!

have a chat with yourself..what stait would the country be in if it was left to carry on for the next 2 years please be real.its ok for us foreigners to go on but were not the thais who are going to be paying for all this big pile of <deleted> ..im sorry but there is a much bigger picture than just thaksin and the dems..

what state will it be in 2 years after the current mess results in a coup followed by mass protests by the red shirts and another coup or maybe elections without stability another victory for pheu thai which will not be accepted by the opposition so they repeat all over again... the only way forward is for one (or both) of the two main parties to modernize (opposition by committing to democracy or pheu thai by cutting ties with thaksin and revamping their economic policy)

Edited December 4, 2013 by brit1984

[mojorison]

Who ever comes into power, must also give a piece of the Thai pie to the working poor and farmers, they are part of the country also. The Democrats when they held the reins of power failed to share the pie, look at the results of them being so shortsighted.

Thaskin's was willing to share the pie, what ever you think of him he knew that to build up a lasting political movement by including the largest voting block in the nation (the working poor and farmers) had also needs that needed to be addressed.

Thaskin downfall was that he was to greedy while he was willing to share Thailand's money, he was not willing to share his money with his political base. A man that had more money then he could possibly spend, had the laws revised so he would not have to pay billions of baht of taxes on his sale of the satellite.

Which resulted in the corruption charge and prison sentence!

The Thai Democrats much like the U.S. Republican party failed to address the needs of all its citizens and only addressed the needs of the rich and its conservative power base, and in the end will pay the price of their failure to meet the needs of all its citizens.

Cheers

Maybe you need to research what charges Thaksin was tried and cleared of, what he was tried and convicted off and what outstanding charges he has yet to face.

Comparing Thaksin and the Thai Democrat party to republicans and democrats, conservatives and labour or capitalists and communists doesn't really work. Thaksin has owned a number of political parties which he uses to run the country for the benefit of himself, his family corporation, his cronies and anyone he needs to pay off. To do this, he knows he must buy large amounts of votes at election times and throw the poor a few crumbs and bones now and then. The Democrats represent the old controlling family powers who regard themselves as the elite HiSo's and have created very wealthy business empires, based on exploiting low paid labour, protective monopolies and total regard for the law, which the place themselves above. They want to preserve this very aristocratic lifestyle and massive wealth for future generations. They don't throw the poor so many crumbs but certainly engage in vote buying. The "fringe" parties are usually owned and run by someone with a local power base and most seem willing to sell their loyalty to the highest bidder.

The average Thai voter has a great choice! Whilst both main parties will fight tooth and nail for the power (and the gravy train) neither have an interest in creating a real democracy, where people have real power over a fairly elected non corrupt fully accountable government. Both will only be interested in an outcome that favours themselves and their agendas. Thaksin is marginally more dangerous because he would be like Mugabe, with similar results for the country. The Dems - same same as before - no real change there.

The only spark of hope is the awakening of the students, and the intelligence and sensitivity shown by the current crop of military high command.

That's a good post. In your opinion the student awakening is more likely under which party? I'm of the belief that the elite have kept the country folk in the dark for a long time, and for a very time honoured reason... "that's how the system works". I certainly see more intellectual freedom and access to education via the Red shirt aligned political parties,,, Thaksin or not.

[smileydude]

So we have a stalemate. Not surprising considering the arrogance and refusal to compromise.

So what can be compromised? Thaksin not returning? Thaksin returning and everyone accepting that he be pardoned of all his wrongdoings?

Some principles are not negotiable. The reds will never accept Thaksin not being able to return. The non-reds will never accept Thaksin being absolved of all his crimes. I don't see anyway out unless someone budges.

So one man versus 11 million versus 15 million.

Who needs to make the sacrifice?

The other 40 million are waiting.

I'm pretty sure the Reds are willing to compromise on Thaksin's return and drop the amnesty bill for good. It was a long shot anyway. Suthep on the other hand won't accept anything short of the whole PTP purged from Thai politics.

Some of the reds may be willing to compromise but what about Mr. T himself? People who know Mr. T says he will never give up and his pockets are deep.

I'm all for equality and narrowing the socioeconomic gap. I put my money where my mouth is by paying the taxes I'm supposed to and using my voting rights. Problem is about 30% of it is lost to corruption and the rest to ineptitude.

Suthep is demanding that the Thaksin Clan be purged from politics not PTP, but that looks like a long shot anyways.

Edited December 4, 2013 by smileydude

[lostmebike]

Good to see the experts in 'Boo-lee-lum' out for the day

[GinBoy2]

The red shirts are ready to oppose any unconstitutional move to overthrow Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra by the military or other means, red-shirt co-leader and Pheu Thai Party-list MP Weng Tojirakarn said.

And when the government completely ignores the constitution to try and bring back the fugitive, that's just fine is it ? They hide behind the constitution and 'democracy' when it suits them and piss on the constitution when it gets in their way. PURE HIPPOCRACY AT ITS WORST !

and instead of exposing the government's obvious flaws and defeating them in elections allowing for victory and a peaceful / stable outcome, the opposition tries to use smash its way to power through brute force in a way that will just create anger and more violence PURE RHINOCRACY AT ITS WORST!

have a chat with yourself..what stait would the country be in if it was left to carry on for the next 2 years please be real.its ok for us foreigners to go on but were not the thais who are going to be paying for all this big pile of <deleted> ..im sorry but there is a much bigger picture than just thaksin and the dems..

what state will it be in 2 years after the current mess results in a coup followed by mass protests by the red shirts and another coup or maybe elections without stability another victory for pheu thai which will not be accepted by the opposition so they repeat all over again... the only way forward is for the opposition is for one of the two main parties to modernize (opposition by committing to democracy or pheu thai by cutting thais with thaksin and revamping their economic policy)

I see it the other way round. The Dem's have to figure out their policies to win. I totally agree, PT's economic policies are lunacy, but why would PT change a winning formula? In democracies (maybe I'm wrong), but it's the losers who have to change in order to win

[ggold]

And the circus continues!

There are a few clowns on TV as well!!

[MrSlatersParrot]

So we have a stalemate. Not surprising considering the arrogance and refusal to compromise.

So what can be compromised? Thaksin not returning? Thaksin returning and everyone accepting that he be pardoned of all his wrongdoings?

Some principles are not negotiable. The reds will never accept Thaksin not being able to return. The non-reds will never accept Thaksin being absolved of all his crimes. I don't see anyway out unless someone budges.

So one man versus 11 million versus 15 million.

Who needs to make the sacrifice?

The other 40 million are waiting.

I'm pretty sure the Reds are willing to compromise on Thaksin's return and drop the amnesty bill for good. It was a long shot anyway. Suthep on the other hand won't accept anything short of the whole PTP purged from Thai politics.

Some of the reds may be willing to compromise but what about Mr. T himself? People who know Mr. T says he will never give up and his pockets are deep.

I'm all for equality and narrowing the socioeconomic gap. I put my money where my mouth is by paying the taxes I'm supposed to and using my voting rights. Problem is about 30% of it is lost to corruption and the rest to ineptitude.

Suthep is demanding that the Thaksin Clan be purged from politics not PTP, but that looks like a long shot anyways.

30% taken by bureaucrats

30% taken by courts

30% taken by the parties

Chinese railway cannot complete because 30% demanded on Thai side

80% corruption in business is non payment of tax

10% corruption from bureaucrat contract corruption

Or so I read

Top down feudal patronage network

[newcomer71]

The Shin clan is the total ruin of this country. This has to end, and soon.

But not with the government being overthrown with force and violence.

The only way is a Technical Government, with NO parties, NO politicians involved in it.

Reforms have to be done, Constitution rewritten. And no corruption involved. Only genuine love for Country and benefit for ALL people.

The problem is for Thailand this seems pure utopia.

thats the post that should be pushed over the net and on tv..but the pricks on either side of the political divide wont have that..the need to remail A listers is immense.you get my vote newcomer...

Right, and the only casualties would be democracy and the current constitution. And the unelected government would be fair and above reproach, and cater equally to Bangkokians and the rest of the country. And the 48% of Thais who voted the current government in would just take this happily and smile, cause that's what their country is all about. And certainly the cycle of protests would never repeat again.

By what you said there's no solution, except everyone have to welcome back Thaksin on a red carpet and kiss his feet.

And I see this vision, is hardly to happen...

Maybe you can give us your idea

[Zolt]

By what you said there's no solution, except everyone have to welcome back Thaksin on a red carpet and kiss his feet.

And I see this vision, is hardly to happen...

Maybe you can give us your idea

Have new elections. Respect the result. Abide by the constitution. Is that so hard?

Edit to explain my point:

For all it is decried, the current constitution was intended to prevent a government with a strong majority behind him to abuse his power and get away with stuff like extrajudicial killings, rewriting the constitution to give himself more power, give himself and his followers impunity for any crimes and abuses of power, and so on.

And amazingly enough, it does work, which is why the amnesty bill and the senate reform bill couldn't go through. Sure, some of the PTP's policies are appaling, and the rice pledging scheme is a huge, unsustainable loss, but we're a far cry from dictatorship. They did have a strong mandate from the Thai people to implement these.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Zolt