US citizens......do you FBAR?

[Tywais]

Also if exceeding a certain threshold you will need to file with the IRS Form 8938. Probably won't effect most as that threshold for single and living overseas is 200,000 at the end of the year or exceeding 300,000 at any time of the year.

http://taxes.about.com/od/preparingyourtaxes/a/Foreign-Financial-Assets.htm

IRS 8938

[55Jay]

I don't find this requirement too difficult. I work here and have an account here, my money is deposited monthly into that account, and I then swiftly withdraw all funds upon receipt. What I do with those funds I'll leave here unanswered (why am I speaking like I am from the middle ages?). FBAR that.

No worries if you are paid less than 10,000 USD per month.

[55Jay]

Just E-filed my FBAR. No issues using Firefox/Adobe this time. Seem to recall last year, I resorted to using Internet Explorer.

[Cheapman]

I don t have to file anything. Even if they ask, Swiss will vote against.

I m sorry for usa citizen. Seem they lost their country and I m not trolling :-)

[JimGant]

I have just downloaded, completed and sent my first FBAR. I checked the 'I didn't know I had to report it' when asked why I was late.

Hmmmm. If it was your CY 2013 FBAR you filed, not sure why you had the option to check a reason for filing late -- since you have until June 30, 2014, to file the 2013 FBAR. Was the FBAR in question for an earlier period?

Since I have done my FBAR duty I assume I now have to include my Thai assets--bank interest and mutual fund dividends- with my 2013 tax returns with the IRS.

Yes, indeed. There are no 1099 data trail reports to trip you up, should you decide not to declare this income. But, as you've now filed a FBAR, you're in the radar coverage (minutely) for a companion income filing on Form 1040, Sch B.

I am not sure if I should just report them for the 2013 tax year as if nothing ever happened or if I should inform them that I have been innocently negligent and repent.

Was the FBAR at the beginning of this discussion for 2013? If yes, then, you've got a high probability that previous non disclosures of income will not be detected. That the FBAR programmers allowed you to answer "why you were filing late," when you actually are many months ahead of schedule, seems a product of sloppy programming. But, hey, maybe this is a clever ploy to uncover first time filers -- who should have filed previously.

Tons of discussion on options for delinquent FBAR filers. Have your glass full, if you decide to research them.

Edited February 19, 2014 by JimGant

[Cheapman]

Do not forget to file for your thai wife if you have joint accounts.

Even if you have a house together, you must file her assets too.

Go now explain to your wife, she has to pay usa tax thanks to your nationality....

Have a wonderful evening.... :-D

[mogandave]

Do not forget to file for your thai wife if you have joint accounts.

Even if you have a house together, you must file her assets too.

Go now explain to your wife, she has to pay usa tax thanks to your nationality....

Have a wonderful evening.... :-D

And don't forget to mention the Social Security benfits she and the kids will be entitles to as well.

We get it, you hate the US. I love the US

Edited February 20, 2014 by Tywais
Flame removed

[maphraw]

I have just downloaded, completed and sent my first FBAR. I checked the 'I didn't know I had to report it' when asked why I was late.

Hmmmm. If it was your CY 2013 FBAR you filed, not sure why you had the option to check a reason for filing late -- since you have until June 30, 2014, to file the 2013 FBAR. Was the FBAR in question for an earlier period?

Since I have done my FBAR duty I assume I now have to include my Thai assets--bank interest and mutual fund dividends- with my 2013 tax returns with the IRS.

Yes, indeed. There are no 1099 data trail reports to trip you up, should you decide not to declare this income. But, as you've now filed a FBAR, you're in the radar coverage (minutely) for a companion income filing on Form 1040, Sch B.

I am not sure if I should just report them for the 2013 tax year as if nothing ever happened or if I should inform them that I have been innocently negligent and repent.

Was the FBAR at the beginning of this discussion for 2013? If yes, then, you've got a high probability that previous non disclosures of income will not be detected. That the FBAR programmers allowed you to answer "why you were filing late," when you actually are many months ahead of schedule, seems a product of sloppy programming. But, hey, maybe this is a clever ploy to uncover first time filers -- who should have filed previously.

Tons of discussion on options for delinquent FBAR filers. Have your glass full, if you decide to research them.file the 140 SSch B and include all the dividends for the last 10 years that I have owned the fund. O

This is the first time I have filed a FBAR so I assumed the "Why did you file late' might have meant, ' why haven't you been filing the FBAR for the last few years'. I talked to a tax accountant in Bangkok and he recommended that when I file my 1040 Sch B I for 2013 I should include all dividends from my Thai mutual fund going back to when I opened the account-12 years ago. But I don't see the point. I think I will file a 1040 Sch B for the tax year 2013 only and include all interest and dividends for 2013 only. By the way, we are not talking about huge sums of money here and with the deductions I am allowed to declare I doubt I would owe anything anyway. But I felt now that I have complied with the FBAR stuff I should include a 1040 Sch B. I am going to try to do my returns with Turbo tax but even filing with them seems like a daunting task.

By the way Jim Grant, I appreciate the time you have taken to respond to my posts. They are very helpful and encouraging. Do you do you own tax returns? Thanks again.

[lopburi3]

Do not forget to file for your thai wife if you have joint accounts.

Even if you have a house together, you must file her assets too.

Go now explain to your wife, she has to pay usa tax thanks to your nationality....

Have a wonderful evening.... :-D

Total nonsense. FBAR is not a tax form and Thai are not taxed unless they agree to such to file joint return and home ownership has nothing to do with tax payments.

[mogandave]

This is the first time I have filed a FBAR so I assumed the "Why did you file late' might have meant, ' why haven't you been filing the FBAR for the last few years'. I talked to a tax accountant in Bangkok and he recommended that when I file my 1040 Sch B I for 2013 I should include all dividends from my Thai mutual fund going back to when I opened the account-12 years ago. But I don't see the point. I think I will file a 1040 Sch B for the tax year 2013 only and include all interest and dividends for 2013 only. By the way, we are not talking about huge sums of money here and with the deductions I am allowed to declare I doubt I would owe anything anyway. But I felt now that I have complied with the FBAR stuff I should include a 1040 Sch B. I am going to try to do my returns with Turbo tax but even filing with them seems like a daunting task.

By the way Jim Grant, I appreciate the time you have taken to respond to my posts. They are very helpful and encouraging. Do you do you own tax returns? Thanks again.

I've used TurboTax, an it generates all the forms you need. First time is a PITA but okay after that.

[maphraw]

Do not forget to file for your thai wife if you have joint accounts.

Even if you have a house together, you must file her assets too.

Go now explain to your wife, she has to pay usa tax thanks to your nationality....

Have a wonderful evening.... :-D

Total nonsense. FBAR is not a tax form and Thai are not taxed unless they agree to such to file joint return and home ownership has nothing to do with tax payments.

That's what I thought. FBAR is not a tax form. And I don't think my Thai wife's little 17-year- old house in the middle of nowhere has any bearing on US taxes. Actually, I do file a joint account with my Thai wife. One reason being I get a bigger standard deduction. (She has a tax number from the IRS which allows one to file jointly).

[Cheapman]

You are taxed on your worldwide Income, joint and not joint accounts. If you have joint account with your thai partner, Thai parents, siblings,... , the highest sum must be reported. You can not divide by 2 and say it s mainly your wife money.... Your joined account will be taxed.

Irs check fbar form and will look for inconsistencies. When fatca will be fully Implemented in July 2014, expect a rain of fines falling on you and arrests at the borders.

Why do you think Swiss and European banks kicked you out?

[mogandave]

When fatca will be fully Implemented in July 2014, expect a rain of fines falling on you and arrests at the borders.

I'm sure that will please you greatly.

[55Jay]

You are taxed on your worldwide Income, joint and not joint accounts. If you have joint account with your thai partner, Thai parents, siblings,... , the highest sum must be reported. You can not divide by 2 and say it s mainly your wife money.... Your joined account will be taxed.

Irs check fbar form and will look for inconsistencies. When fatca will be fully Implemented in July 2014, expect a rain of fines falling on you and arrests at the borders.

Why do you think Swiss and European banks kicked you out?

Why are you hanging around in an FBAR thread? Didn't you say you were Swiss? Does FBAR and/or US Tax law apply to you and/or your Thai wife?

[JimGant]

I talked to a tax accountant in Bangkok and he recommended that when I file my 1040 Sch B I for 2013 I should include all dividends from my Thai mutual fund going back to when I opened the account-12 years ago. But I don't see the point. I think I will file a 1040 Sch B for the tax year 2013 only and include all interest and dividends for 2013 only. By the way, we are not talking about huge sums of money here and with the deductions I am allowed to declare I doubt I would owe anything anyway.

Well, in the low probability (but see later ref article) that the IRS should question your previous tax filings, correcting this oversight in a lump on your 2013 Form 1040 would go a long way in mitigating any serious penalties. And, as you say you might not even owe any taxes in 2013 (Filing jointly, two exemptions, AGI $20,000, or less -- $22,400, if both 65 or older), then, obviously, if this includes past Thai interest and dividends, including such is a no-brainer. And, if it does cost you something -- what's the insurance value of being able to show you made amends (albeit, in an unorthodox, non-interest paying fashion) when and if you get that letter from the Treasury Department?

Your accountant's suggestion falls into the "quiet disclosure" methodology for dealing with delinquent FBAR and foreign income reporting. However, the GAO is not amused:

GAO’s recommendations to the IRS include the mundane such as further education to the public about their reporting duties with respect to offshore assets. Of importance to those wondering about making a “quiet disclosure” or complying on a “prospective basis only,” GAO has told the IRS it should:

• Explore options for employing a methodology for identifying and pursuing potential quiet disclosures to provide more assurance that actual quiet disclosures are not being missed and then implement the best option.
• Conduct an analysis designed to measure the extent that taxpayers are reporting existing foreign accounts on the Form 1040, Schedule B or on FBARs for the “first time” and catch these taxpayers who are trying to circumvent taxes, interest, and penalties that would otherwise be owed.

The fact that GAO has told the IRS to examine the Schedule B is significant. The Schedule has the taxpayer check a box whether he has a foreign account. If it is being checked “yes” for the first time, but the taxpayer has lived and worked abroad for many years (as determined by prior tax filings) this will surely raise eyebrows. Information can also be cross-checked on Form 8938 regarding whether the asset being reported was acquired or closed in the current tax year.

See: http://americansabroad.org/issues/taxation/quiet-disclosures-jig/

That some filing "quiet disclosures" aren't even including past income will make it worse for them, should they get caught. And, while filing past income all on your 2013 Form 1040 isn't Kosher, it should, as said, provide some mitigation.

And the fact that you checked the "if filing late,why?" block -- will make you more interesting than other "quiet disclosure" folks.

Good luck.

[Tywais]

Troll post and reply removed.

[JimGant]

Cheapman,

We've heard your tales of woe, on this thread and others, about how your journey to the New World just didn't quite work out. C'est la vie.

The US isn't for everyone. But, if you're smart, work hard, and possess entrepreneurial skills -- well, you'll be rewarded. And, believe it or not, your taxes will be lower than those in most other first world countries.

However, if somehow you have visions of an easy life in America, where just 'getting by' is good enough to reap a comfortable living -- well, folks like these are in for a rude awakening. This is particularly true if their English skills are weak, as is their thought process. Such folks return to Switzerland.

(Well, that's unfair. Most of the Swiss I've met in America are highly skilled and articulate. Perhaps your family emigrated to Switzerland -- from one of those countries now getting the "not welcome" sign at the border?)

Now, piss off.

[wym]

Yes, if you're not willing to sacrifice the rest of life to get into the top economic percentiles, life is much better in other countries.

[mogandave]

Yes, if you're not willing to sacrifice the rest of life to get into the top economic percentiles, life is much better in other countries.

Which other counties? I'm ready for a move.

[wym]

If you're willing to marry a local girl who's willing to take you on, just about any developed nation.

My top choice would be Norway if I weren't a parent, but Finland since I am.

But I don't like the cold, so I guess I'm stuck. . .

[55Jay]

If you're willing to marry a local girl who's willing to take you on, just about any developed nation.

My top choice would be Norway if I weren't a parent, but Finland since I am.

But I don't like the cold, so I guess I'm stuck. . .

I Googled Norwegian women and I would have to agree. Hot!

Just kidding. There were some stunners for sure. Blonde hair....almost forgot about that!.

[wym]

If you're willing to marry a local girl who's willing to take you on, just about any developed nation.

My top choice would be Norway if I weren't a parent, but Finland since I am.

But I don't like the cold, so I guess I'm stuck. . .

I Googled Norwegian women and I would have to agree. Hot!

I think we were talking about progressive social support of the lower classes?

And wrt Finland, schooling for the kids.

Personally I'm not attracted to farang women at all, I'd have to bring at least one mia noi along.

[aveabeeror2]

warrants though.

[maphraw]

I talked to a tax accountant in Bangkok and he recommended that when I file my 1040 Sch B I for 2013 I should include all dividends from my Thai mutual fund going back to when I opened the account-12 years ago. But I don't see the point. I think I will file a 1040 Sch B for the tax year 2013 only and include all interest and dividends for 2013 only. By the way, we are not talking about huge sums of money here and with the deductions I am allowed to declare I doubt I would owe anything anyway.

Well, in the low probability (but see later ref article) that the IRS should question your previous tax filings, correcting this oversight in a lump on your 2013 Form 1040 would go a long way in mitigating any serious penalties. And, as you say you might not even owe any taxes in 2013 (Filing jointly, two exemptions, AGI $20,000, or less -- $22,400, if both 65 or older), then, obviously, if this includes past Thai interest and dividends, including such is a no-brainer. And, if it does cost you something -- what's the insurance value of being able to show you made amends (albeit, in an unorthodox, non-interest paying fashion) when and if you get that letter from the Treasury Department?

Your accountant's suggestion falls into the "quiet disclosure" methodology for dealing with delinquent FBAR and foreign income reporting. However, the GAO is not amused:

GAO’s recommendations to the IRS include the mundane such as further education to the public about their reporting duties with respect to offshore assets. Of importance to those wondering about making a “quiet disclosure” or complying on a “prospective basis only,” GAO has told the IRS it should:

• Explore options for employing a methodology for identifying and pursuing potential quiet disclosures to provide more assurance that actual quiet disclosures are not being missed and then implement the best option.
• Conduct an analysis designed to measure the extent that taxpayers are reporting existing foreign accounts on the Form 1040, Schedule B or on FBARs for the “first time” and catch these taxpayers who are trying to circumvent taxes, interest, and penalties that would otherwise be owed.

The fact that GAO has told the IRS to examine the Schedule B is significant. The Schedule has the taxpayer check a box whether he has a foreign account. If it is being checked “yes” for the first time, but the taxpayer has lived and worked abroad for many years (as determined by prior tax filings) this will surely raise eyebrows. Information can also be cross-checked on Form 8938 regarding whether the asset being reported was acquired or closed in the current tax year.

See: http://americansabroad.org/issues/taxation/quiet-disclosures-jig/

That some filing "quiet disclosures" aren't even including past income will make it worse for them, should they get caught. And, while filing past income all on your 2013 Form 1040 isn't Kosher, it should, as said, provide some mitigation.

And the fact that you checked the "if filing late,why?" block -- will make you more interesting than other "quiet disclosure" folks.

Good luck.

This GAO stuff is a bit frightening. Also the Offshore Voluntary Disclosure Program (OVDP) acceptance letters where Americian citizens who haven't done their FBAR and who haven't been reporting overseas interest and other assets voluntarily report them to the IRS are now being revoked. Some of them anyway.

Let's Talk About: US Tax Doing a 180 — IRS Revokes Acceptance Into OVDP!)

My Thai income from interest and dividends for the past 12 years in Thailand doesn't even approach $15,000. And my Thai wife and I have filed with the IRS every year and I have always attached a Form 2555 for all my Thai income when I was working here. Even so, it is all a bit worrisome. I probably should have filed my 2013 tax returns first and then filed the FBAR just before June. I was going to do my taxes by myself using Turbo Tax but I might just pay the tax accountant his hefty fee ($475) and have him do my returns so it looks good and proper.

Well, I am hoping that since all of the income I have earned in the US and Thailand for the 25 years has been reported to the IRS with the exception of this Thai interest and these dividends that I will get by unscathed.

[phuketrichard]

NO;

i make sure i never have more than $9,900 in all my overseas accounts an have kept it that way for 3 years now

[JimGant]

i make sure i never have more than $9,900 in all my overseas accounts an have kept it that way for 3 years now

Kinda nonsensical, as they've made filing the FBAR on-line quite simple. And, plugging in the accounts and amounts isn't terribly hard.

But the real catch nowdays is the requirement to file a Schedule B with your 1040 (or 1040A) if you have any foreign financial account, regardless of high balance during the year. And, of course, they'll be looking for line items containing interest or dividends from these foreign accounts.

No 1099 trail -- yet -- to uncover folks delinquent in filing the Schedule B. However, when FATCA arrives, it might just be easier for Thai banks to report income of all US persons holding accounts -- not just those who exceed $50,000. Stay tuned.

[JimGant]

I was going to do my taxes by myself using Turbo Tax but I might just pay the tax accountant his hefty fee ($475) and have him do my returns so it looks good and proper.

By saving a $475 accountant fee, I'd sure give Turbotax a try. It's pretty simple, especially if your tax situation is simple, as yours appears to be. And, apparently you can now efile with a foreign address, which wasn't always the case.

It certainly will look "good and proper" with Turbotax. Your accountant probably uses the professional version, and his efile will look the same as yours.

[riclag]

"Financial Crimes Enforcement Network".Jesus C ! Why do I feel like I did something illegal? Is the name suppose to intimidate ? Was this always the name on the site

to file a Fbar report?

[wym]

Just like "prostitution = trafficking", these days "evading tax = money laundering" to put it on par with terrorism and drug cartels.

Don't worry, it's all "doubleplus good"

[wym]

i make sure i never have more than $9,900 in all my overseas accounts an have kept it that way for 3 years now

Kinda nonsensical, as they've made filing the FBAR on-line quite simple. And, plugging in the accounts and amounts isn't terribly hard.

Except from the POV that some still hold out the quaint old-fashioned notion of privacy in your financial affairs, that it isn't your government's business as long as you're not doing anything illegal.

But the current zeitgeist is that the government claims the right to know everything about all aspects of "your business", no such thing as any privacy anymore, so that they can make the decision themselves as to whether you're actually doing anything illegal or not.

And with legal systems this complex, of course EVERYONE is doing SOMETHING illegal at any given moment, so the bureaucrats have power over anyone they like easy to abuse that power down the road, but more to the point everyone's that much more afraid to stick their neck out and protest against what they see as bad governance, so effective democracy - which requires free speech - can be more and more stifled.