3 weeks in Chiang Mai – Friends, Map/GPS, Land

[Brickbat]

Hello Diddi, I presume it's 'sister' in Hindi. All the best in Chaing Mai, free from the tigers and elephants!! Thanks for your post as I plan to retire soon in Thailand, and thinking of Hua Hin. The advice from fellow members was most helpful. I will be in a similar situation and some guy ( JC who promotes Retirecheap.Asia did touch on this topic as it's apparently a frequent question by newbies. His advice!!! Be a friend to thyself first. All the very best. Writing will certainly ameliorate the loneliness.

[LukKrueng]

Thank you everyone for all your info and advise.

Hello LukKrueng, I would like to live in the northern part of Thailand. I don’t mind being 1-2 hours drive from CM, in fact, from some of the estate agents’ pictures I have seen, land further away is very nice. The only problem, from my little experience so far, is that these land publications are for Sor Tor Gor land and this does not interest me, I insist on Chanote land. I would like 2-3 rai, even a little more if I can afford it. There is one particular estate agent that I want to see here in CM so let’s see if they are genuine because they have a huge list of land for sale. If nothing works out, I might just start looking in Chiang Rai when I get a car.

if you want to build a house you should go for a chanote and only chanote. lesser documents are doubtful most of the time and in any case limited mostly for agriculture usage.

As far as agents go - you have to understand how it works here... an agent lists properties not necessarily according to direct contact with the land owner. Once you go out with your agent you'll see that when you get to the properties you meet with various other people - none of which are the actual owners. They might be introduced to you (if at all) as the owners / care takes of the land, but they are actually more middlemen.

According to the law, a property owner must pay 3% of the proceeds to the broker who brought the buyer. However, the brokers usually are not happy with the 3%, especially when there are many brokers between you and the owner, so they pump up the price. Just to give you an example, I was shown the same property by 2 different agents within 2 days. 1 demanded 4.5 million B and the other only 4. Few days later I met a person who claims to be the contact person for my first agent to that land, and he offered the land for 3.5 mil.

In another case I saw a property and was asked for 80K per rai, 2 weeks later the same property was offered to me for 120K per rai...

Want to hear of another case? OK, a piece of land was offered to me for 170K per rai by 1 person. weeks later another broker told me the price for the land was 150K / rai but they'd get it for me for 130K, The following day the contact person to my broker said he already spoke with the owner who reduced the price to 120K. 1/2 an hour later, another contact person of my broker said she knows the landlord and after a short phone conversation offered me the land for only 110K /rai. Now - my agent didn't like that last discount, as it had cut too much from the planned profit, so they made up a story that the owner changed their mind and now demand a higher price....

If you are on a budget and not willing to overpay for the land you must be patient. It takes time to find the right place. The smallest property I know of is 10 Rai, so I can't really help you finding a land right now, but I keep hearing about properties and I might hear about a small land in the future. If you want, PM me your email and I'll let you know if something comes up

[eddie61]

question: are you rich?

if so, be very careful

Edited December 7, 2013 by eddie61

[Brickbat]

Everything is on loan. As the song goes, you are a slave to money and then you die. Verve. My plan is to rent until I fully understand the system . And who knows, patience is a great virtue.

[LawrenceN]

As far as meeting people, you can start out at the Expats Club--they meet once a month (currently at the Meridian Hotel) on the fourth Saturday of the month, and have a coffee meeting on a Friday. THere are several umbrella groups that come under the club with special interests.

http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/

For schedules, planned speakers, time, location, etc.

[jacko45k]

Try a visit to here.

http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/

It may be mostly male but it will lead you to a few non-Thai wives.

Ask there if there is a Ladies Club, like the one in Pattaya (PILC)... from there on I think you will soon build yourself a social circle.

Ooops, someone beat me to it.

Edited December 7, 2013 by jacko45k

[wimpey1946]

www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com

[hutchings1963]

please dont jump in to buying land,here in chiang rai much cheaper than chiang mai,if you are going to do it without a thai they will take you to the cleaners,i know its the land of the smiles,your white im affraid to say it means RIP OFF,every thai thinks we are millioneers and can afford to be ripped off,please just be carefull what you do here,im sure others on here who have been here long while will agree with me.

[hutchings1963]

Sorry i forgot to say i live with my thai wife now 5 years,she speaks good english and will help you so not to get ripped off, good luck and welcome to thailand,im sure you will love it here

[Gandtee]

Is this a wind up? The old lady seem to have a remarkable knowledge of Thai language and Real Estate. Nigerian per chance?

[Hecate]

Welcome to Chiang Mai. There is a ladies' lunch run every second Thursday. You can get info at it here [email protected]. There are about 20 "old ladies" at every lunch and it's a friendly group. Lots of other activities here http://www.chiangmaiexpatsclub.com/outside-group-activities/. Check out chickynet.com. It's a social network for English speaking women. If you want to meet locals, I would suggest http://www.chiangmaifriendsgroup.com/?cat=5. Lots of language courses, yoga courses and so on.

[wicketkeeper]

Nancy Chandler's map shows almost everything you will ever need to find in Chiang Mai. Enjoy.

[T_Dog]

Johpa, I don’t want to purchase Sor Tor Gor land. What I said was that a lot of estate agents are advertising such land which I don’t want to buy but which are more attractive in my eyes. I will not buy such land as it will get me into big trouble! I want Chanote land (that a friend in Bangkok will buy) or leasehold land.

Yes, it is true, the land that I am looking for is out of town and where Thai people probably don’t speak English, but I am not moving to Thailand to be with ex-pats only. I like Thai people and I would like to frequent them if possible, otherwise what would I be doing wanting to live here. Perhaps, also, I will learn the language that much quicker if I am in a Thai area. As for the isolation, it is nice sometimes to have complete privacy and, in any case, I am used to driving, even at night, in many countries and over great distances, so why should I worry, I can meet friends by car. I drive in India on my own and live in India on my own. My hobby is research and I want to write a couple of books, so being in isolation suits me fine, and I can always socialise inbetween when I have made some friends. As for security, again, why should I worry. I have been living in a tiger reserve in India in a remote area and I was very happy – in northern Thailand there are no tigers or elephants roaming the countryside so I will not find them near my house as I have experienced in India. My moto is dare to LIVE life and enjoy it.

I don’t want to waste my money on rent, I have been doing that already by paying for hotels. Too late anyway, I have bought a studio condo which will save me money and will be an investment. If ever I run out of money, at least I will still have a roof over my head.

Thanks for the advice though, I appreciate it, and thanks for telling me about the Writer’s Club and maps.

Just north of Chiang Mai there are leopards however. CM108 news had a story 9 months ago of a litter of cubs were found not far from us. Unfortunately, the mother carried only one away before the locals captured the other two and put them in cages.

[venturalaw]

Join InterNations Chiang Mai Chapter at www.InterNations.org. It's free and there are monthly events tailored for expats. Get a map from Gecko Books. Ask the owner George any questions. He's been living in CM forever. Welcome.

[Dennisdob]

Hello,

We have all gone through the same thing as you are going through now and if I can be of any assistance, I would be more than happy to show you around and have you come and visit the family. Just send me a personal message and I will give you my contact information and I do have a car and my wife also drives and we would be more than happy to entertain you and to get you started.

If by chance you are golfer we have a great golf league here that is international and there are approximately 80 members from all over the world. You are certainly welcome to be a part of our social golf league.

[gchurch259]

Find an Asia Book Store and you will look for a Thailand Highway Map. It is like the Road Atlas we have in USA and has information about the major cities in Thailand.

Good luck in finding a friend. I am an Ole Man in Bangkok, but have a very nice Thailand wife for 10 years now. You seem like you are well traveled, but I suggest you becareful about friends, there are many scams in Thailand.

All things considered Thailand is not a bad place to live and cost a lot less than USA. I have been here 10 years.

Jerry

[onthedarkside]

English is the language of this rules - as per the forum rules. 2 posts in French have been removed.

[rebelplatoon]

Hi Old lady....

I can give you some e mails of retired foreigners that are looking for contacts.

I used to work for the Government so have lots of contacts.

Besides that it is important to know what side of town you're looking at.

I know a few pieces of land in the Hang Dong area.

Hope you get settled in! Just mail me on Thai visa by replying.

[salapau]

I live in Mae Sariang in the Northwest. Smallish town but expanding, that dosn't worry me too much as I live just outside the town in a quiet area. Internet and phone service is difficult sometimes with poor connections on sim cards. I do however go into town to use the free wi-fi of a couple of quiet hotels when I need good internet reception.

My only observation to you is to be carefull in going forward with buying land and building your ideal style house. Language difficulties are the most frustrating and the labour force are not dependable. If you reaaly want to buy I would suggest that you think about buying a completed property. I would certainly suggest that you rent a house initially for at least two years and then make your decisions. There are some nice houses here for rent around 3,000 baht per month. The remote areas are not popular for foreigners to settle, so if you're looking for friendship that will be a problem for you, as it has been for me.

I wish you luck in this last chance to settle somewhere nice.

[Wordworx]

I don't think I really need to mention this, as you did India and are no doubt savvy, but will anyway. I've noted a few posts here looking like they are seeking "business". My respectful suggestion is: Don't. Pretty sure you knew that; only deal with agents who come recommended by a trusted source. Deal only with those with a proven track record and a long-established business -- preferably brick and mortar. Also, respectfully agree with other suggestions that you rent. Buying is complicated and loaded with risks and binding obligation. Renting is cheap with nearly zero risks. And you can leave clean and clear, if needed, maybe lose a negligible deposit sum. Things can change. Fast. (A perfect example is, in fact, India some years ago.) Also, you can change. Decide you would rather go elsewhere. Really makes no sense to buy.

[godden]

can't help you with your requirements, but wish you well in your new life in thailand.

[VINCENT2012]

hello old lady,

to help you the best i can, i give you these addresses... read it carefully.you said you speak french so... here it is!

in french

http://www.maison-de-retraite-thailande.sitew.org

in english

http://www.retirement-home-ubon-ratchathani.sitew.eu

To finish i would advise you that in your case i would not buy land "nor sor sam" chanot or whar ever with someboddy thai or not.

1)most of the time it is illegal.

2)i am not pessimist but there many, really many chances that at the end .......you are going to loose everything.

3)buying is not really a problem because they will let you do it , Estate Agents or the person interested will arange it !..... BUT selling and getting your money back in case you want or have to go ... really IS a problem .....sometimes after a while they just kick you out !!!

4)don't do funny things, you are new here so you better follow the thai rules or they will go after your money one way or another...., you are old allready, you said so find a nice place where to live with good people around, PAY your rent , the rest will come by itself

Things in thailand are changing very fast recently, i think you have no idea about whats going on, what kind of laws the thai institution make for farangs like you, me and the rest of us.

the land of smile change to serious when they stop smiling !

i wish you the best and good luck anyway

[Beetlejuice]

Thank you everyone for all your info and advise.

Hello LukKrueng, I would like to live in the northern part of Thailand. I don’t mind being 1-2 hours drive from CM, in fact, from some of the estate agents’ pictures I have seen, land further away is very nice. The only problem, from my little experience so far, is that these land publications are for Sor Tor Gor land and this does not interest me, I insist on Chanote land. I would like 2-3 rai, even a little more if I can afford it. There is one particular estate agent that I want to see here in CM so let’s see if they are genuine because they have a huge list of land for sale. If nothing works out, I might just start looking in Chiang Rai when I get a car.

If you are purchasing land with your money and using an upfront Thai name, than that`s not legal in Thailand. You are not only breaking the law, but also leaving yourself open to extortion. If all goes pear shaped, the Government by law could confiscate the land. I cannot understand why you would want 2-3 rai just as living accommodation on your own, unless you are considering doing some sort of business.

you say you are an old lady. How old exactly? Because for someone who claims to have a lot of experience, you certainly seem to be diving in at the deep end for someone who alleges to be a newbie in Thailand.

My advice to you is as a newbie in Thailand, is to conduct your business here strictly according to the laws and save yourself a lot of inconvenience and what could turn into a disaster for you later on.

[Muhendis]

I know nothing about GPSs so excuse me if my questions seem stupid - but I'm learning Isn't the software on a GPS standard, that is to say aren't they all the same? When you buy a GPS, do you have to buy software for it to work or is it sold in a workable condition from the start? I suppose a hand-held GPS exists rather than one you have to incorporate into a vehicle? I know, don't say it, be patient with me

I'm far too lazy to read all the posts here so please excuse me if I am repeating what others may have already said.

When considering your new car, there are many that come with GPS already fitted so to purchase a GPS now might lead to duplication of resources. Getting map information and directions is well serviced with Google maps and Google earth and will get you by until you get a more high tech solution.

Living in the north of Thailand (Chiang Mai) was, as with many others, my first choice but I found the locals in Buriram just as nice and, at the time, land was less expensive. I wish you happiness with your chosen future.

[personchester]

Hi "Old Lady"

Only 2 weeks ago I was in the same situation. You should find what you need at Eagle GPS in Pantip Plaza, 2nd. floor. The plaza is in the middle of CBD. Nice people who assisted well.

Hope this helps.

Cheers..... Mal.

I agree that Eagle GPS in Pantip Plaza offers a good selection of Garmin GPS models that have both Thai and English screens and voice. Pantip Plaza is in the Night Bazaar area.

The details outlines within the second "para" from the OP appears to be indicative of the fact that Diddi may not be an old lady as stated, but an old chappy, and perhaps not a particular old chappy either, and he may follow the concept that replies applicable to a female are better, more helpful, and more polite.

[DGIE]

Thank you for the info. I will look into maps and GPS to see what is the best option for the time being. As for service, it is always touch and go wherever you go in the world so I just have to catch a shop-seller on a good day. No worries.

The best map is to ask people if they know the place you want to go and if they can teach you how to go

[DGIE]

count me one of your friends.

About buying car, my wife is teaching in a company of slightly used cars. Feel free to ask if you have any questions.

We have website for pictures and prices.

Enjoy living in Thailand

[Muhendis]

Thank you everyone for all your info and advise.

Hello LukKrueng, I would like to live in the northern part of Thailand. I don’t mind being 1-2 hours drive from CM, in fact, from some of the estate agents’ pictures I have seen, land further away is very nice. The only problem, from my little experience so far, is that these land publications are for Sor Tor Gor land and this does not interest me, I insist on Chanote land. I would like 2-3 rai, even a little more if I can afford it. There is one particular estate agent that I want to see here in CM so let’s see if they are genuine because they have a huge list of land for sale. If nothing works out, I might just start looking in Chiang Rai when I get a car.

if you want to build a house you should go for a chanote and only chanote. lesser documents are doubtful most of the time and in any case limited mostly for agriculture usage.

As far as agents go - you have to understand how it works here... an agent lists properties not necessarily according to direct contact with the land owner. Once you go out with your agent you'll see that when you get to the properties you meet with various other people - none of which are the actual owners. They might be introduced to you (if at all) as the owners / care takes of the land, but they are actually more middlemen.

According to the law, a property owner must pay 3% of the proceeds to the broker who brought the buyer. However, the brokers usually are not happy with the 3%, especially when there are many brokers between you and the owner, so they pump up the price. Just to give you an example, I was shown the same property by 2 different agents within 2 days. 1 demanded 4.5 million B and the other only 4. Few days later I met a person who claims to be the contact person for my first agent to that land, and he offered the land for 3.5 mil.

In another case I saw a property and was asked for 80K per rai, 2 weeks later the same property was offered to me for 120K per rai...

Want to hear of another case? OK, a piece of land was offered to me for 170K per rai by 1 person. weeks later another broker told me the price for the land was 150K / rai but they'd get it for me for 130K, The following day the contact person to my broker said he already spoke with the owner who reduced the price to 120K. 1/2 an hour later, another contact person of my broker said she knows the landlord and after a short phone conversation offered me the land for only 110K /rai. Now - my agent didn't like that last discount, as it had cut too much from the planned profit, so they made up a story that the owner changed their mind and now demand a higher price....

If you are on a budget and not willing to overpay for the land you must be patient. It takes time to find the right place. The smallest property I know of is 10 Rai, so I can't really help you finding a land right now, but I keep hearing about properties and I might hear about a small land in the future. If you want, PM me your email and I'll let you know if something comes up

Oooo crikey. What a lot of problems. I did my land "shopping" by word of mouth. That is by far the best way but you need to make some contacts to do it. Having said that Farang cannot own land in Thailand unless you are a GPB millionair.

Owning land through a Thai partner is not legal and is likely to result in big loss.

There is something called usufruct which you may not be the land owner but you are entitled to live on, and enjoy the fruits of the land until you die [no surprises there] or for a specific number of years, even though it does not belong to you.

The Usufruct becomes part of the land document.

I am unsure of the legality but maybe you friend can purchase the land and have you on the land document under as a usufruct.

Perhaps enlightenment may be forthcoming from this forum on this idea.

[DGIE]

Welcome Diddi, like you I am newbie to Chiang Mai, only been here for 1 year and a half, I thought about getting way out of the city myself, but then remembered I am retiring here so I must be getting old, I need to be within a hours drive to medical treatment and I like to eat American food at least once a week, and shop at the big supermarkets for Western food, You don't have to go far from the city to get away, within 30 minutes you will be in the country. I haven't found it to difficult to find people speaking English out side the city. I have expat friends and Thai friends, both inside and out side the city. I ride a motorcycle and have traveled alot. The Expat Club that others have mentioned it a good place to meet. Good luck to you and maybe we will meet someday.

Come to Bangkok. For medical treatment, they are almost in every corner.

Many people can speak English here

[MESmith]

I'm with you on this one! I've been using a Garmin Zumo motorcycle GPS for the past few years, integrating it with the Garmin software called MapSource. Moving back to Chiang Mai, I discovered that this place in the Phantip Plaza sold the newest Garmin map for Thailand, went in asked if they had it, asked them if it was a legit copy or a busted one, and was told it was completely authorized. I bought it, put it into my GPS and it worked fine. But when I tried to put it into MapSource, it wouldn't unlock with the key provided. I went back to the shop to ask how I could get it to work, and was THEN told that it would ONLY work in the GPS. It wasn't unlocked for the software.... which means it is NOT a legit copy. I don't mind the legality of it as much as it upsets me that I can't use the map software. That's every bit as important as the GPS itself. For 2,000 baht that it cost, I would have liked to be told the truth... Do NOT trust this shop.

Isn't the Thailand map produced by ESRI in Thailand? I believe it's not an official garmin product, but works on garmin gps. Mine opens with Basecamp software, free to download from garmin's website. Never use mapsource myself.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I only use Basecamp for hiking & cycling, not navigating my truck.