My house exploded

[Naam]

That happened to my floor in pattaya. I just got home in the late afternoon switched off the ac and opened the fan in front of the window. I laid down on the sofa and heard some noise which sounded like something was caught in the fan. Took a peek and didnt see anything so back to resting only to hear more noise. Then i thought <deleted> those animals from the movie tremors are here. They kept popping for days but didnt buckle much more. I went and tapped a lot of them with a quarter and lots were loose....

The good news is i hated that old floor the bad is it cost some money as i replaced all the tile and used proper tile cement.

But it looks like not only the tiles came loose, but the underlying base cracked up over the whole length in the middle as with an earthquake..

What was the cause for that ?

the cause is most probably that the builder used chicken wire in the concrete slab instead of steel reinforcement.

I didnt know you were a comedian...

i might have exaggerated a wee bit but i was not joking my friend! what i have seen in this respect in Thailand gives me the creeps.

[yankee99]

^^^ no problem as i said earlier the slab on top of the foundation was not damaged. As you said some of the work is really bad and in my case using standard cement instead of thinset ( spelling) to lay tiles is one of those shortcomings.

[IMHO]

there's nothing really to worry about except that in my case it causes hairline cracks left and right of the concrete pillars. no solution available except patching them up. they are tiny that's why paint will do.

One solution is cladding and wallpaper - cracks never seen again

[jacko45k]

I only get the guttering making clicking noises as it heats up.

The steel frame and how it is tied to the roof should allow some expansion without causing high levels of stress.

I am guessing the expansion is causing a build up of force which suddenly gives!

I am tempted to say look closely at the junctions in the steel frame where you hear the noise...... likely red-lead will have rubbed off where it is giving.

I have that insulating foam on the underside of my roof tiles, keeps heat out and sound levels down too!

the expansion/contraction problem increases exponentially with size (length) of the main steel girders which are welded to the steel reinforcement of the concrete pillars. the noise is caused by contraction, i.e. ambient temperate suddenly dropping.

your insulation just lowers the time span till your attic heats up. without good ventilation the heat in your attic will build up as if your insulation does not exist

And the noises associated, would they not depend on the rate at which the metal is heating up.

Certainly not directly related to ambient temperature suddenly dropping, more to do with the temperature changes in the steel frame itself!

PS...I guarantee you, my home is cooler with the insulation.

And the interior of the attic is much cooler than the surface of the tiles outside in the direct sunlight! duh

-in my case the noise is not caused by heating up (expansion) but by cooling down (contraction) as the noise occurs only in the early morning hours (0300-0500 hours).

-the temperature change of the steel frame is caused by the change of the ambient temperature.

-you can't judge whether your home is cooler with your foam insulation. reason: you would have to measure with and without insulation under the same prevailing circumstances which is "mission impossible".

-of course the attic air is cooler than the surface of the tiles exposed to sun radiation.

Trust me, I have been in my roof space numerous times, it is cooler now in the afternoons than pre-foam days.

The underside of the tiles used to get extremely hot.

I didn't need to go up there with a calibrated thermometer.

The house similarly stays cool until much later in the day......(single storey).

You would not know if my house is cooler unless you had been here with all your test equipment......

I have also benefited from double glazing and reflective glass.

My electricity bills went down too.

Having these noises at that time 0300-0500 would be disturbing. I am quite sure my home is much quieter too, a pity my bladder isn't so peaceful.

Edited December 8, 2013 by jacko45k

[PeterSmiles]

The single loud bang still occurs, and I tell you its loud, but since the day I started this thread it has moved forward with a few minutes every day.

So where it would happen shortly after 8.30am a week ago, it has now moved to a few minutes before 9am.

Does the sun rise earlier or later compared to a week ago, or do I have to look for another explanation.

I also should add once again that the " bang " has not the sound of a steel construction but rather like something that hits a concrete wall.

My understanding is that concrete can crack only once and doesn't do this every day.

Edited December 9, 2013 by PeterSmiles

[PeterSmiles]

Little update.

I just discovered that around 12 O'clock midnight I hear a similar bang from the same location. Not as loud as the one in the morning, but still noticeable.

Is this a bad sign or still nothing to worry about.

[canman]

The louder the bang the more stress is being released. You state the bang is very loud and occurs 0830-0900 which makes perfect sense if you assume stress building as the structure warms until it releases mid morning with a bang.

Given that it happens at a predictable time each day you should be able to listen for it each day and gradually pin down the location. I would not be too worried but I definately would track down just what is building up and releasing this stress each day. All houses creak, groan and pop with temperature changes but you are describing a loud bang and I would certainly want to know what is causing it if I lived there.

[PeterSmiles]

The louder the bang the more stress is being released. You state the bang is very loud and occurs 0830-0900 which makes perfect sense if you assume stress building as the structure warms until it releases mid morning with a bang.

Given that it happens at a predictable time each day you should be able to listen for it each day and gradually pin down the location. I would not be too worried but I definately would track down just what is building up and releasing this stress each day. All houses creak, groan and pop with temperature changes but you are describing a loud bang and I would certainly want to know what is causing it if I lived there.

As I said, the area where i hear the bang is not accessible. It is a narrow space of about 15 meters long, I can look into it, but I can not really access it.

Do you think it would be visible when the bang happens ?

[trogers]

The single loud bang still occurs, and I tell you its loud, but since the day I started this thread it has moved forward with a few minutes every day.

So where it would happen shortly after 8.30am a week ago, it has now moved to a few minutes before 9am.

Does the sun rise earlier or later compared to a week ago, or do I have to look for another explanation.

I also should add once again that the " bang " has not the sound of a steel construction but rather like something that hits a concrete wall.

My understanding is that concrete can crack only once and doesn't do this every day.

My guess is that the weldment between a purlin and a rafter has cracked, meaning these two elements are detached.

As they are laid against each other at a right angle, the purlin was prevented from moving gradually to changes in temperature (following heating and cooling of the roof tiles) as the two cracked portions of the weldment catch against each other.

When stress has built up sufficiently, the catch disengaged. The sound between steel and steel should be of a high frequency, but as the purlin bears the weight of roof tiles, the sound dampens into a bang.

This cracked weldment can only be seen (and repaired) on removing the roof tiles, and not visible from below.

Edited December 10, 2013 by trogers

[PeterSmiles]

The single loud bang still occurs, and I tell you its loud, but since the day I started this thread it has moved forward with a few minutes every day.

So where it would happen shortly after 8.30am a week ago, it has now moved to a few minutes before 9am.

Does the sun rise earlier or later compared to a week ago, or do I have to look for another explanation.

I also should add once again that the " bang " has not the sound of a steel construction but rather like something that hits a concrete wall.

My understanding is that concrete can crack only once and doesn't do this every day.

My guess is that the weldment between a purlin and a rafter has cracked, meaning these two elements are detached.

As they are laid against each other at a right angle, the purlin was prevented from moving gradually to changes in temperature (following heating and cooling of the roof tiles) as the two cracked portions of the weldment catch against each other.

When stress has built up sufficiently, the catch disengaged. The sound between steel and steel should be of a high frequency, but as the purlin bears the weight of roof tiles, the sound dampens into a bang.

This cracked weldment can only be seen (and repaired) on removing the roof tiles, and not visible from below.

If this is the case, I will have to remove the roof tiles to find the cracked weld and repair it, which will be an extensive ( expensive ) job.

Would it create a dangerous situation if not repaired ?

Edit : I had to look up what's a purlin, and it seems it is what we call a batten.

The battens are galvanised steel pre-made and are screwed on the rafters.

Edited December 10, 2013 by PeterSmiles

[trogers]

The single loud bang still occurs, and I tell you its loud, but since the day I started this thread it has moved forward with a few minutes every day.

So where it would happen shortly after 8.30am a week ago, it has now moved to a few minutes before 9am.

Does the sun rise earlier or later compared to a week ago, or do I have to look for another explanation.

I also should add once again that the " bang " has not the sound of a steel construction but rather like something that hits a concrete wall.

My understanding is that concrete can crack only once and doesn't do this every day.

My guess is that the weldment between a purlin and a rafter has cracked, meaning these two elements are detached.

As they are laid against each other at a right angle, the purlin was prevented from moving gradually to changes in temperature (following heating and cooling of the roof tiles) as the two cracked portions of the weldment catch against each other.

When stress has built up sufficiently, the catch disengaged. The sound between steel and steel should be of a high frequency, but as the purlin bears the weight of roof tiles, the sound dampens into a bang.

This cracked weldment can only be seen (and repaired) on removing the roof tiles, and not visible from below.

If this is the case, I will have to remove the roof tiles to find the cracked weld and repair it, which will be an extensive ( expensive ) job.

Would it create a dangerous situation if not repaired ?

Edit : I had to look up what's a purlin, and it seems it is what we call a batten.

The battens are galvanised steel pre-made and are screwed on the rafters.

Unlikely to have batten screwed directly to the rafter as the latter is probably a box section. If screws are used, they would be to angle cleats that are welded onto the rafters.

[PeterSmiles]

The single loud bang still occurs, and I tell you its loud, but since the day I started this thread it has moved forward with a few minutes every day.

So where it would happen shortly after 8.30am a week ago, it has now moved to a few minutes before 9am.

Does the sun rise earlier or later compared to a week ago, or do I have to look for another explanation.

I also should add once again that the " bang " has not the sound of a steel construction but rather like something that hits a concrete wall.

My understanding is that concrete can crack only once and doesn't do this every day.

My guess is that the weldment between a purlin and a rafter has cracked, meaning these two elements are detached.

As they are laid against each other at a right angle, the purlin was prevented from moving gradually to changes in temperature (following heating and cooling of the roof tiles) as the two cracked portions of the weldment catch against each other.

When stress has built up sufficiently, the catch disengaged. The sound between steel and steel should be of a high frequency, but as the purlin bears the weight of roof tiles, the sound dampens into a bang.

This cracked weldment can only be seen (and repaired) on removing the roof tiles, and not visible from below.

If this is the case, I will have to remove the roof tiles to find the cracked weld and repair it, which will be an extensive ( expensive ) job.

Would it create a dangerous situation if not repaired ?

Edit : I had to look up what's a purlin, and it seems it is what we call a batten.

The battens are galvanised steel pre-made and are screwed on the rafters.

Unlikely to have batten screwed directly to the rafter as the latter is probably a box section. If screws are used, they would be to angle cleats that are welded onto the rafters.

The rafters are 3.2 mm C-sections and the battens are screwed with self tapping screws on it.

This are the battens used

[trogers]

Cannot imagine how roof tiles be hung from such a batten. Seems more like for kilp-lok metal roof sheets.

[PeterSmiles]

Cannot imagine how roof tiles be hung from such a batten. Seems more like for kilp-lok metal roof sheets.

Not a picture from my roof.

Edited December 10, 2013 by PeterSmiles

[khunPer]

Cannot imagine how roof tiles be hung from such a batten. Seems more like for kilp-lok metal roof sheets.

Look excactly like the galvanized battens from Cement Thai – I have them (or similar) under my roof tiles.

[trogers]

Cannot imagine how roof tiles be hung from such a batten. Seems more like for kilp-lok metal roof sheets.

Look excactly like the galvanized battens from Cement Thai – I have them (or similar) under my roof tiles.

The battens do not look rigid, and may be twisted easily, especially if the distance between rafters is substantial. If so, the twisting of the battens against the roof tiles could be the cause of the sound.

[PeterSmiles]

The louder the bang the more stress is being released. You state the bang is very loud and occurs 0830-0900 which makes perfect sense if you assume stress building as the structure warms until it releases mid morning with a bang.

Given that it happens at a predictable time each day you should be able to listen for it each day and gradually pin down the location. I would not be too worried but I definately would track down just what is building up and releasing this stress each day. All houses creak, groan and pop with temperature changes but you are describing a loud bang and I would certainly want to know what is causing it if I lived there.

Been up in the loft today, and what i noticed was a surprise.

NO BANG

As the bang yesterday occured a few minutes after 9am, I went up there just before 9 and stayed till 9.45. No bang at all.

Guess I will have to investigate further.

[IMHO]

The louder the bang the more stress is being released. You state the bang is very loud and occurs 0830-0900 which makes perfect sense if you assume stress building as the structure warms until it releases mid morning with a bang.

Given that it happens at a predictable time each day you should be able to listen for it each day and gradually pin down the location. I would not be too worried but I definately would track down just what is building up and releasing this stress each day. All houses creak, groan and pop with temperature changes but you are describing a loud bang and I would certainly want to know what is causing it if I lived there.

Been up in the loft today, and what i noticed was a surprise.

NO BANG

As the bang yesterday occured a few minutes after 9am, I went up there just before 9 and stayed till 9.45. No bang at all.

Guess I will have to investigate further.

I guess the poster who suggested Ghosts was right then

[mmh8]

Unless you saw where where your materials it is likely that you have been given bad materials. These builders will scavenge stuff off the streets to do the building. It is not a joke, substandard steel is used throughout those new condos growing everywhere. If they can make just a few baht out of using cheaper materials they will.

Nice new roof I saw going up with proper roofing tiles - ceramics- how did they put them up, well they did replace the cracked ones after weeks of nagging, and then filled the holes with silicon. glad it was not my house. Replacement tiles were different coloured, possibly different material.

.............

[PeterSmiles]

Cannot imagine how roof tiles be hung from such a batten. Seems more like for kilp-lok metal roof sheets.

Look excactly like the galvanized battens from Cement Thai – I have them (or similar) under my roof tiles.

The battens do not look rigid, and may be twisted easily, especially if the distance between rafters is substantial. If so, the twisting of the battens against the roof tiles could be the cause of the sound.

Do you think the battens would twist with the weight of the tile hanging on it ? Of course the battens have a screw on the topside and bottom side and the rafters are 1,20m between.

Maybe Khunper can elaborate if he has the same issues as me currently ?

Bang still going on, and can't find the exact location, but it's clear that when the night time hasn't been too cold it's not so loud. I think I had even a few days without the bang.

There is hope that after the cold spell it's finished.

[trogers]

Cannot imagine how roof tiles be hung from such a batten. Seems more like for kilp-lok metal roof sheets.

Look excactly like the galvanized battens from Cement Thai – I have them (or similar) under my roof tiles.

The battens do not look rigid, and may be twisted easily, especially if the distance between rafters is substantial. If so, the twisting of the battens against the roof tiles could be the cause of the sound.

Do you think the battens would twist with the weight of the tile hanging on it ? Of course the battens have a screw on the topside and bottom side and the rafters are 1,20m between.

Maybe Khunper can elaborate if he has the same issues as me currently ?

Bang still going on, and can't find the exact location, but it's clear that when the night time hasn't been too cold it's not so loud. I think I had even a few days without the bang.

There is hope that after the cold spell it's finished.

The 2 pictures you have posted shows 2 slightly different type of battens. The picture of the blownup batten has no slotted holes while the picture with roof tiles shows a blownup batten with slotted holes.

The batten is profiled tapered, with the top less wide than the bottom. The rafters themselves are widely spaced and structurally connected among them only at the ridge and bottom. Seems the battens have to act also as part of the structural component between rafters.

Should the rafters have to move against another rafter, due either to temperature change or wind load, the battens will have to twist slightly. The tiles are slided down against the tapered battens and rubbing action can occur should the batten has to twist.

This is made more likely as most construction in the provinces does not have concrete tie beams between top of column supports, making one element hinging on another.

[PeterSmiles]

Thanks for your reply again, but I guess there is some confusion. I actually have the battens shown in the first picture. I posted the second picture to have a better view, as there is actually no difference. There are no slotted holes in the first batten, it are just some design pressed in the structure. They are also not wider at the top than the bottom, but can used upside down as there is no difference.

The picture of the roof is not my roof, as I mentioned under the picture. My roof has a 25 x 25 cm concrete beam on top of the columns , the rafters are 1,2 m between and the underpurlins about 2,5 meter between.

[khunPer]

»Maybe Khunper can elaborate if he has the same issues as me currently ?«

(Post #50)

No, I have no noise at all from house structure (only noise when there’s a party somewhere, but that's another story). Your description sounds to me, like it may well be from the steel construction and the temperature difference, but I’m in no way an expert.

A difference to my house, with similar type of Cement Thai battens – the rafters are widely spaced, but they were standing fine alone before battens were mounted by the special roof tile crew from Cement Thai, but the may have something to do with structure stability – and tiles that indeed are screwed in (something like “Neu Style” I think they are named), may well be that I live on Koh Samui, an island down south, where a cold night temperature almost never falls below 20 centigrade; and when it’s that cold the day temperature will be only up to around 25 centigrade, not a huge temperature difference. Furthermore I have heat reflecting aluminium foil insulation between roof tiles and battens, which may reduce the steel from warming up to fast when Sunrays hit the tiles.

For info I attach a photo of my battens and rafters.

(Edit: missing words)

Edited December 23, 2013 by khunPer

[PeterSmiles]

»Maybe Khunper can elaborate if he has the same issues as me currently ?«

(Post #50)

No, I have no noise at all from house structure (only noise when there’s a party somewhere, but that'). Your description sounds to me, like it may well be from the steel construction and the temperature difference, but I’m in no way an expert.

A difference to my house, with similar type of Cement Thai battens – the rafters are widely spaced, but they were standing fine alone before battens were mounted by the special roof tile crew from Cement Thai, but the may have something to do with structure stability – and tiles that indeed are screwed in (something like “Neu Style” I think they are named), may well be that I live on Koh Samui, an island down south, where a cold night temperature almost never falls below 20 centigrade; and when it’s that cold the day temperature will be only up to around 25 centigrade, not a huge temperature difference. Furthermore I have heat reflecting aluminium foil insulation between roof tiles and battens, which may reduce the steel from warming up to fast when Sunrays hit the tiles.

For info I attach a photo of my battens and rafters.

Thanks for the info. My roof looks similar with that difference that the reflective foil is between the rafters and the battens. I think I will have to wait till the cold nights are over and see if it gets better, and otherwise learn to live with it.

The strange thing to me is that it happens so early in the morning, between 8.30 and 9.15am depending on what time the sun rises, when the outside temperature isn't hot yet and in the loft it also isn't even warm yet. My tiles are not screwed but "should " be fastened with springs. You will notice that I put should between quotation marks.

What also might make a difference is that you had a Cement Thai roof team and I had a professional Isaan clown team .

Edited December 23, 2013 by PeterSmiles

[khunPer]

»Maybe Khunper can elaborate if he has the same issues as me currently ?«

(Post #50)

No, I have no noise at all from house structure (only noise when there’s a party somewhere, but that'). Your description sounds to me, like it may well be from the steel construction and the temperature difference, but I’m in no way an expert.

A difference to my house, with similar type of Cement Thai battens – the rafters are widely spaced, but they were standing fine alone before battens were mounted by the special roof tile crew from Cement Thai, but the may have something to do with structure stability – and tiles that indeed are screwed in (something like “Neu Style” I think they are named), may well be that I live on Koh Samui, an island down south, where a cold night temperature almost never falls below 20 centigrade; and when it’s that cold the day temperature will be only up to around 25 centigrade, not a huge temperature difference. Furthermore I have heat reflecting aluminium foil insulation between roof tiles and battens, which may reduce the steel from warming up to fast when Sunrays hit the tiles.

For info I attach a photo of my battens and rafters.

Thanks for the info. My roof looks similar with that difference that the reflective foil is between the rafters and the battens. I think I will have to wait till the cold nights are over and see if it gets better, and otherwise learn to live with it.

The strange thing to me is that it happens so early in the morning, between 8.30 and 9.15am depending on what time the sun rises, when the outside temperature isn't hot yet and in the loft it also isn't even warm yet. My tiles are not screwed but "should " be fastened with springs. You will notice that I put should between quotation marks.

What also might make a difference is that you had a Cement Thai roof team and I had a professional Isaan clown team .

If your battens are inside of the reflective foil, I will presume that the roof tiles in sunshine heat them up as being inside a stone oven. Believe the correct way shall be as described in the Cement Thai folder and made by their roof crew; roof tiles, reflective foil, battens and rafters.

But only a thought, perhaps some other TV-member knows more about it.

A side remark about “Professional Isaan clown team”, just mentioned if someone is about to build a house.

When I got quotes for building my house, my constructor offered to put the roof tiles on for free. When I saw the instruction manual from Cement Thai – foil, sarking (rain protection), edge water protection to be mounted in the cement wall, etc. etc. – I realized it was more than just putting some tiles up, so I kindly said thank you, but no thank you. The professional roof crew were actually quite cheap labour (standard Thai price), and taking the battens out of the steel construction quote and replace with galvanized steel from Cement Thai, I saved so much in the steel construction that it paid both galvanized battens and half the labour cost of the whole roof (today they can make a whole steel construction in galvanized steel, including free detailed computer drawings). Any materials delivered in excess of the actual use could be returned and credited. Furthermore I got a five-year guarantee certificate – probably worth more than a five-year warranty from a local Thai Constructor. When the roof crew – they come from Bangkok – has other jobs on the island, they always come by to say hello and check if everything is still all right, and they even sometimes bring a little gift like Cement Thai logo towels or glasses. So far their only guarantee service needed during a visit has been to cope with the offered beers or soft drinks.

My Thai neighbours kindly ask me during the monsoon raining season if my roof is leaking, when I say no they answer: »Your roof must be the only not leaking…!«

I believe that was one of my better decisions during the construction.

[PeterSmiles]

»Maybe Khunper can elaborate if he has the same issues as me currently ?«

(Post #50)

No, I have no noise at all from house structure (only noise when there’s a party somewhere, but that'). Your description sounds to me, like it may well be from the steel construction and the temperature difference, but I’m in no way an expert.

A difference to my house, with similar type of Cement Thai battens – the rafters are widely spaced, but they were standing fine alone before battens were mounted by the special roof tile crew from Cement Thai, but the may have something to do with structure stability – and tiles that indeed are screwed in (something like “Neu Style” I think they are named), may well be that I live on Koh Samui, an island down south, where a cold night temperature almost never falls below 20 centigrade; and when it’s that cold the day temperature will be only up to around 25 centigrade, not a huge temperature difference. Furthermore I have heat reflecting aluminium foil insulation between roof tiles and battens, which may reduce the steel from warming up to fast when Sunrays hit the tiles.

For info I attach a photo of my battens and rafters.

Thanks for the info. My roof looks similar with that difference that the reflective foil is between the rafters and the battens. I think I will have to wait till the cold nights are over and see if it gets better, and otherwise learn to live with it.

The strange thing to me is that it happens so early in the morning, between 8.30 and 9.15am depending on what time the sun rises, when the outside temperature isn't hot yet and in the loft it also isn't even warm yet. My tiles are not screwed but "should " be fastened with springs. You will notice that I put should between quotation marks.

What also might make a difference is that you had a Cement Thai roof team and I had a professional Isaan clown team .

If your battens are inside of the reflective foil, I will presume that the roof tiles in sunshine heat them up as being inside a stone oven. Believe the correct way shall be as described in the Cement Thai folder and made by their roof crew; roof tiles, reflective foil, battens and rafters.

But only a thought, perhaps some other TV-member knows more about it.

A side remark about “Professional Isaan clown team”, just mentioned if someone is about to build a house.

When I got quotes for building my house, my constructor offered to put the roof tiles on for free. When I saw the instruction manual from Cement Thai – foil, sarking (rain protection), edge water protection to be mounted in the cement wall, etc. etc. – I realized it was more than just putting some tiles up, so I kindly said thank you, but no thank you. The professional roof crew were actually quite cheap labour (standard Thai price), and taking the battens out of the steel construction quote and replace with galvanized steel from Cement Thai, I saved so much in the steel construction that it paid both galvanized battens and half the labour cost of the whole roof (today they can make a whole steel construction in galvanized steel, including free detailed computer drawings). Any materials delivered in excess of the actual use could be returned and credited. Furthermore I got a five-year guarantee certificate – probably worth more than a five-year warranty from a local Thai Constructor. When the roof crew – they come from Bangkok – has other jobs on the island, they always come by to say hello and check if everything is still all right, and they even sometimes bring a little gift like Cement Thai logo towels or glasses. So far their only guarantee service needed during a visit has been to cope with the offered beers or soft drinks.

My Thai neighbours kindly ask me during the monsoon raining season if my roof is leaking, when I say no they answer: »Your roof must be the only not leaking…!«

I believe that was one of my better decisions during the construction.

I didn't know the Cement Thai team was that cheap, sure something to take in consideration for a future build.

Regarding the foil, there are 2 different methods of tile laying. Keep in mind that I don't have the regular Monier concrete tiles, but Ceris clay tiles, which is also owned by Cement Thai.

They offer a masonry ridge or an ventilated ridge. I have the latter one. With this method there needs to be a space between the tiles and the foil, because wind enters at the birds-eaves blows between tiles and foil and exit through the ridge.

It is quite effective as even during the hottest part of the day my loft is still bearable in temperature.

[IMHO]

»Maybe Khunper can elaborate if he has the same issues as me currently ?«

(Post #50)

No, I have no noise at all from house structure (only noise when there’s a party somewhere, but that'). Your description sounds to me, like it may well be from the steel construction and the temperature difference, but I’m in no way an expert.

A difference to my house, with similar type of Cement Thai battens – the rafters are widely spaced, but they were standing fine alone before battens were mounted by the special roof tile crew from Cement Thai, but the may have something to do with structure stability – and tiles that indeed are screwed in (something like “Neu Style” I think they are named), may well be that I live on Koh Samui, an island down south, where a cold night temperature almost never falls below 20 centigrade; and when it’s that cold the day temperature will be only up to around 25 centigrade, not a huge temperature difference. Furthermore I have heat reflecting aluminium foil insulation between roof tiles and battens, which may reduce the steel from warming up to fast when Sunrays hit the tiles.

For info I attach a photo of my battens and rafters.

Thanks for the info. My roof looks similar with that difference that the reflective foil is between the rafters and the battens. I think I will have to wait till the cold nights are over and see if it gets better, and otherwise learn to live with it.

The strange thing to me is that it happens so early in the morning, between 8.30 and 9.15am depending on what time the sun rises, when the outside temperature isn't hot yet and in the loft it also isn't even warm yet. My tiles are not screwed but "should " be fastened with springs. You will notice that I put should between quotation marks.

What also might make a difference is that you had a Cement Thai roof team and I had a professional Isaan clown team .

If your battens are inside of the reflective foil, I will presume that the roof tiles in sunshine heat them up as being inside a stone oven. Believe the correct way shall be as described in the Cement Thai folder and made by their roof crew; roof tiles, reflective foil, battens and rafters.

But only a thought, perhaps some other TV-member knows more about it.

A side remark about “Professional Isaan clown team”, just mentioned if someone is about to build a house.

When I got quotes for building my house, my constructor offered to put the roof tiles on for free. When I saw the instruction manual from Cement Thai – foil, sarking (rain protection), edge water protection to be mounted in the cement wall, etc. etc. – I realized it was more than just putting some tiles up, so I kindly said thank you, but no thank you. The professional roof crew were actually quite cheap labour (standard Thai price), and taking the battens out of the steel construction quote and replace with galvanized steel from Cement Thai, I saved so much in the steel construction that it paid both galvanized battens and half the labour cost of the whole roof (today they can make a whole steel construction in galvanized steel, including free detailed computer drawings). Any materials delivered in excess of the actual use could be returned and credited. Furthermore I got a five-year guarantee certificate – probably worth more than a five-year warranty from a local Thai Constructor. When the roof crew – they come from Bangkok – has other jobs on the island, they always come by to say hello and check if everything is still all right, and they even sometimes bring a little gift like Cement Thai logo towels or glasses. So far their only guarantee service needed during a visit has been to cope with the offered beers or soft drinks.

My Thai neighbours kindly ask me during the monsoon raining season if my roof is leaking, when I say no they answer: »Your roof must be the only not leaking…!«

I believe that was one of my better decisions during the construction.

I didn't know the Cement Thai team was that cheap, sure something to take in consideration for a future build.

Regarding the foil, there are 2 different methods of tile laying. Keep in mind that I don't have the regular Monier concrete tiles, but Ceris clay tiles, which is also owned by Cement Thai.

They offer a masonry ridge or an ventilated ridge. I have the latter one. With this method there needs to be a space between the tiles and the foil, because wind enters at the birds-eaves blows between tiles and foil and exit through the ridge.

It is quite effective as even during the hottest part of the day my loft is still bearable in temperature.

Just a note for those looking for the "dry ridge" system mentioned by PeterSmiles, the system is called "dry fix" (in English and Thai) and is definitely what you want to use if you are fitting cement roof tiles. Mush faster install time, no cracking cement (and therefore leaks), no paint peeling off, no worry about the weather while cement cures (because there is no cement ) - but if properly fitted it does not provide any ventilation benefit, as all ridges are sealed with self adhesive butyl rubber sheets.

Also, the foil should go under the battens no matter whether you use dry fix, or cement joints.

As for the CPAC install team, if your contractors haven't used the fry fix system before using this service would be recommended - first attempts at using dry-fix always end up with crooked ridges

Edited December 26, 2013 by IMHO

[PeterSmiles]

- but if properly fitted it does not provide any ventilation benefit, as all ridges are sealed with self adhesive butyl rubber sheets.

Also, the foil should go under the battens no matter whether you use dry fix, or cement joints.

As for the CPAC install team, if your contractors haven't used the fry fix system before using this service would be recommended - first attempts at using dry-fix always end up with crooked ridges

Why you think there are no ventilation benefits ?

The rubber sheets are perforated to let the air out.

What's a crooked ridge ?

[samuibeachcomber]

I told your problem to my grandson and he said it is a ghost...

your grandson could be right...................time to get the monks around

[IMHO]

- but if properly fitted it does not provide any ventilation benefit, as all ridges are sealed with self adhesive butyl rubber sheets.

Also, the foil should go under the battens no matter whether you use dry fix, or cement joints.

As for the CPAC install team, if your contractors haven't used the fry fix system before using this service would be recommended - first attempts at using dry-fix always end up with crooked ridges

Why you think there are no ventilation benefits ?

The rubber sheets are perforated to let the air out.

What's a crooked ridge ?

The butyl sheets are not perforated - if they were, they wouldn't perform their intended function (waterproof the joints). If yours are perforated, you might want to wonder how well the installer understood the system

According to my dictionary, crooked = not straight