'No snipers' in Ramkhamhaeng clashes

[Lite Beer]

'No snipers' in Ramkhamhaeng clashes
Jessada Jantharak
The Sunday Nation


Assistant national police chief Pol Gen Jaramporn Suramanee points to a map of Ramkhamhaeng University and the adjacent Rajamangala Stadium, during a press conference yesterday about the deaths of five people over the weekend

BANGKOK: -- Police investigation reports five deaths; body of charred victim in bus identified

There were no snipers involved in the five deaths that occurred during the Ramkhamhaeng University riots, assistant to the national police chief, Pol General Jaramporn Suramanee, said yesterday.

Autopsy reports and trajectory results found the victims were shot by pistol, from ground level, said Jaramporn, who headed the scene investigations.

There were 19 incidents of violence in that area from the night of November 30 to December 1.

Jaramporn also said police had retrieved 34 spent ammunition casings and 12 bullets, which were reportedly fired from seven models of firearms (including 9mm, .22, .25, .38, and .32) and seized some pistols from both sides for further inspection of links to the violence.

According to the police report, there were confrontations between university students and the red shirts earlier on November 30, which also led to shooting at 8.45pm that killed Ramkhamhaeng University student Thaweesak Phokaew, 21, with a gunshot to the chest on Ramkhamhaeng Soi 24. At 10pm police tried to enter the area but they were obstructed by the protesters. A 191 police car was smashed, police said.

At 2am on December 1, red-shirt supporter Private Thanasit Viangkham, 23, was fatally shot in the head while he walked on Ramkhamhaeng Soi 24, while another red-shirt supporter, Viroj Khemnak, died after being shot in the chest while standing outside Rajamangala Stadium at 4am. Hours later, another red-shirt supporter, Wisanu Paopu, was killed after being shot in the chest at the gate 1 area while police urged red-shirts to leave the stadium via gates 3 and 4. The police arranged 30 police cars and 10 buses to evacuate the university students, according to the report.

In addition, a red-shirt double-decker bus, parked in front of the university, was torched at 3.30pm on December 1, resulting in the death of Suradet Khampaengjai, police said. DNA testing and available evidence suggested that the skeleton found in the torched bus was that of 19-year-old Suradet, who was neither a red-shirt supporter nor a Ramkhamhaeng University student, police said. Suradet reportedly left his Ekamai home with friends and joined as a red-shirt guard before entering the double-decker, which was set on fire, trapping Suradet inside.

His mother Nareumon Khampayak later identified Suradet's body by DNA test and his personal belongings like ring, phone and belt buckle.

-- The Nation 2013-12-08

[Robby nz]

Nothing said about the army having to go in and get the students out of the university because they were to scared to leave because of gunfire.

The Govt should be ashamed for calling out the reds, there was no need for them to be there.

Take a look at who the red leaders are then tell me there is no connection between them and the Govt.

[GeorgeO]

Nothing said about the army having to go in and get the students out of the university because they were to scared to leave because of gunfire.

The Govt should be ashamed for calling out the reds, there was no need for them to be there.

Take a look at who the red leaders are then tell me there is no connection between them and the Govt.

I was hoping to take a look at the Red leaders, but they all seem to have disappeared....!!

Edited December 8, 2013 by GeorgeO

[lovetotravel]

Nothing said about the army having to go in and get the students out of the university because they were to scared to leave because of gunfire.

The Govt should be ashamed for calling out the reds, there was no need for them to be there.

Take a look at who the red leaders are then tell me there is no connection between them and the Govt.

Take a peek at the article in the Bangkok Post. Really sad how the police did nothing to stop this violence and protect the poor students.

[Ricardo]

No snipers, say the BiBs, contrary to what the university-rector & students experienced.

So why were the police so afraid, to go in a stop the violence then ?

Pretend that they didn't exist, then the police can't be blamed, for not having caught or even identified any of them.

Now how is the national police-chief related to self-exiled former-PM Thaksin, once again ?

Yay for Red Police Investigations !

[noitom]

No. The Thais are emphatically saying no again. No this and no that. Thais love to say no and then later we see yes. But the press never follows up on the yeses. Only the Nos.

[LuckyLew]

IMO what a sham report ... is it true that the BIB are changing their uniform color from brown to red?

Police might have been impeded by the protestors as they approached Rajamangala up Ram24 from Pattanakarn, but they came with about 20 police trucks and were ill prepared for what they faced. The question in my mind would be if the violence started to erupt hours earlier ... why was the response time in the hours and not in minutes.

IMO - The reds came armed and prepared for a war and a few of them got shot a killed .... They mis-caculated the response from the students and the beat a hasty retreat

[JRSoul]

"...19-year-old Suradet, who was neither a red-shirt supporter nor a Ramkhamhaeng University student, police said. Suradet reportedly left his Ekamai home with friends and joined as a red-shirt guard....."

So red shirt guards are neutral politically, simply mercenary thugs?

[tominbkk]

How would the police know? They abandoned the area after watching the reds kill protesters in cold blood without doing anything. The army had to come in and rescue the students, the police let it all happen. Not to be trusted!

[slapout]

The majority of the BIB should be classified as below the dregs of Thai society. They have a knack for not being avaliable when needed, holdings their hands out for solicated funds, being a Major part of the Thai social problems, and these are their good points.

If social/political reform that is being sought, is to ever have a chance of improving, the BIB, as they operate presently will have to be replaced, in mass, jailed, stripped of pensions, assits, immunity, etc. This is not a bad apple can spoil the barrel example, but a babbel full of bad apples, setting an example that has lead to, corrupting a nation

[LomSak27]

so No Snipers

come on, thats because the Reds are the Goverment and the Yellows are protesting

If we reverse the situation, and Have the Dems/Yellows in Power and the Reds protesting, we have 90 people killed by rifle fire and the downtown burned

[worgeordie]

So will anyone in the Government be brought up on

murder charges,or does only the opposition qualify !

regards Worgeordie

[dyertribe]

How would the police know?  They abandoned the area after watching the reds kill protesters in cold blood without doing anything.  The army had to come in and rescue the students, the police let it all happen.  Not to be trusted!

Seems to me, that 1 protester was (perhaps) killed by a red shirt, 3 others were red shirts killed by (maybe) the protesters and the unfortunate guy on the bus who seems to be either a protester or a re shirt (depending which article you read), but who was certainly killed when the protestors torched the bus.

Support which ever side you want, but let's try to use known facts and not make stuff up.

[wprime]

No snipers, say the BiBs, contrary to what the university-rector & students experienced.

So why were the police so afraid, to go in a stop the violence then ?

Pretend that they didn't exist, then the police can't be blamed, for not having caught or even identified any of them.

Now how is the national police-chief related to self-exiled former-PM Thaksin, once again ?

Yay for Red Police Investigations !

I wouldn't be surprised if the snipers were shooting blanks intended to invoke violence. Think about it, if someone is shooting at you from a building, you're going to think it was from the other mob.

[ggold]

There's a very simple reason the BiB did nothing, as in 2010 they conveniently disappeared when the reds got violent because they supported the reds! same same this time, let the reds take care of the student protesters. Only this time they were on the receiving end! So much for Jutaporn's remarks about the reds knowing how to fight.

They ran!

Just a shame people have to die because of 1 person and his henchmen.

[Thait Spot]

How would the police know?  They abandoned the area after watching the reds kill protesters in cold blood without doing anything.  The army had to come in and rescue the students, the police let it all happen.  Not to be trusted!

Seems to me, that 1 protester was (perhaps) killed by a red shirt, 3 others were red shirts killed by (maybe) the protesters and the unfortunate guy on the bus who seems to be either a protester or a re shirt (depending which article you read), but who was certainly killed when the protestors torched the bus.

Support which ever side you want, but let's try to use known facts and not make stuff up.

Good post.

There should a an enquiry into why the police took so long to arrive and then failed to act.

I don't believe the term "sniper' is determined by the calibre of the weapon.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[jcb2001]

How would the police know? They abandoned the area after watching the reds kill protesters in cold blood without doing anything. The army had to come in and rescue the students, the police let it all happen. Not to be trusted!

Seems to me, that 1 protester was (perhaps) killed by a red shirt, 3 others were red shirts killed by (maybe) the protesters and the unfortunate guy on the bus who seems to be either a protester or a re shirt (depending which article you read), but who was certainly killed when the protestors torched the bus.

Support which ever side you want, but let's try to use known facts and not make stuff up.

Good post.

There should a an enquiry into why the police took so long to arrive and then failed to act.

I don't believe the term "sniper' is determined by the calibre of the weapon.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

You will never get a decent investigation from the BIB under this current government. We can only hope in a matter of a few hours, this will change.

[Emptyset]

No snipers, say the BiBs, contrary to what the university-rector & students experienced.

So why were the police so afraid, to go in a stop the violence then ?

Pretend that they didn't exist, then the police can't be blamed, for not having caught or even identified any of them.

Now how is the national police-chief related to self-exiled former-PM Thaksin, once again ?

Yay for Red Police Investigations !

I wouldn't be surprised if the snipers were shooting blanks intended to invoke violence. Think about it, if someone is shooting at you from a building, you're going to think it was from the other mob.

Read in the BKK Post the Pol Maj Gen declined to comment as to whether there were snipers in university buildings. Neither does this article suggest police claim there were no snipers involved at all, it rather suggests that police think snipers weren't involved in any of the 5 deaths. Guess that's because autopsies, witnesses and bullet trajectory reports suggest people were killed at close range, and the fact that only hand guns seem to have been used (most people don't think of a sniper as someone who uses a hand gun, although obviously it could mean that in its wider rather than strictly military definition).

Police have apparently arrested people on both sides that had weapons, although whether they were the shooters, I don't know.

[DonThaiToMe]

There's a very simple reason the BiB did nothing, as in 2010 they conveniently disappeared when the reds got violent because they supported the reds! same same this time, let the reds take care of the student protesters. Only this time they were on the receiving end! So much for Jutaporn's remarks about the reds knowing how to fight.

They ran!

Just a shame people have to die because of 1 person and his henchmen.

What a load of buffalo crap.

I were at Lumphini everyday up until the day when they "went in". And the BiB, togheter with the army were very much present indeed.

Don´t tell lies.

[ggold]

There's a very simple reason the BiB did nothing, as in 2010 they conveniently disappeared when the reds got violent because they supported the reds! same same this time, let the reds take care of the student protesters. Only this time they were on the receiving end! So much for Jutaporn's remarks about the reds knowing how to fight.

They ran!

Just a shame people have to die because of 1 person and his henchmen.

What a load of buffalo crap.

I were at Lumphini everyday up until the day when they "went in". And the BiB, togheter with the army were very much present indeed.

Don´t tell lies.

Not Lies!

where were the police last weekend when students were being shot. The head of the University phoned the police to protect the students stuck in the university because of gun shots and ping pong bombs, But the police never turned up! It took the army to rescue the students who put flack jackets on when leaving the uni. In fact the police said they could not get through. But the managed to bus out the red shirt protesters form the stadium next door!

do you read the papers? If you read this Sunday's edition of the other paper you can read the report.

Edited December 8, 2013 by ggold

[DonThaiToMe]

There's a very simple reason the BiB did nothing, as in 2010 they conveniently disappeared when the reds got violent because they supported the reds! same same this time, let the reds take care of the student protesters. Only this time they were on the receiving end! So much for Jutaporn's remarks about the reds knowing how to fight.

They ran!

Just a shame people have to die because of 1 person and his henchmen.

What a load of buffalo crap.

I were at Lumphini everyday up until the day when they "went in". And the BiB, togheter with the army were very much present indeed.

Don´t tell lies.

Not Lies!

where were the police last weekend when students were being shot. The head of the University phoned the police to protect the students stuck in the university because of gun shots and ping pong bombs, But the police never turned up! It took the army to rescue the students who put flack jackets on when leaving the uni. In fact the police said they could not get through. But the managed to bus out the red shirt protesters form the stadium next door!

do you read the papers? If you read this Sunday's edition of the other paper you can read the report.

Read my original response and try again.

[khunken]

the skeleton found in the torched bus was that of 19-year-old Suradet, who was neither a red-shirt supporter nor a Ramkhamhaeng University student, police said. Suradet reportedly left his Ekamai home with friends and joined as a red-shirt guard before entering the double-decker, which was set on fire, trapping Suradet inside.

As usual the police contradict themselves.

There is a very good article in the other paper's weekend magazine on the Ramkamheng clashes.

My summary is:

1. The red shirts should not have been allowed into the stadium in an area not sympathetic (to put it mildly) to them.

2. They started the clashes by some minor destruction of a university icon and harassing students.

3. The students reacted strongly and violently.

4. The red shirts did the same.

5. The shooting then started with guns on both sides as well as an unknown 'third hand'.

6. The rector asked fro police help which was not forthcoming.

7. Many students trapped in the university by shooters of unknown bias.

8. The rector tried again to get the police to act but had to eventually call the military for help.

9. Police both stood and watched the violence and some actually joined in on the red shirt side.

10. The army finally escorted the trapped students to safety.

While the students' reaction was just as violent as the red shirts, once again a large red shirt gathering ends in serious violence. Thaksin opened the 'Dogs of War' when he created the red shirt leaders, many of whom are violent agitators. The large majority of red shirts who attend these gatherings are non-violent and many are just earning a small stipend. Yes, there are different factions within the red shirt movement - some entirely peaceful - but the bully boys are far too numerous and they take over on the streets.

Edited December 8, 2013 by khunken

[ggold]

There's a very simple reason the BiB did nothing, as in 2010 they conveniently disappeared when the reds got violent because they supported the reds! same same this time, let the reds take care of the student protesters. Only this time they were on the receiving end! So much for Jutaporn's remarks about the reds knowing how to fight.

They ran!

Just a shame people have to die because of 1 person and his henchmen.

What a load of buffalo crap.

I were at Lumphini everyday up until the day when they "went in". And the BiB, togheter with the army were very much present indeed.

Don´t tell lies.

Not Lies!

where were the police last weekend when students were being shot. The head of the University phoned the police to protect the students stuck in the university because of gun shots and ping pong bombs, But the police never turned up! It took the army to rescue the students who put flack jackets on when leaving the uni. In fact the police said they could not get through. But the managed to bus out the red shirt protesters form the stadium next door!

do you read the papers? If you read this Sunday's edition of the other paper you can read the report.

Read my original response and try again.

fortunately I don't live anywhere near Bangkok, however as the OP is about the University campus and what happened there last weekend, I don't think I need to read your original post and try again. Being honest I wouldn't know if they are one and the same area. If that is the case, Why would an other newspaper print out and out lies?

Edited December 8, 2013 by ggold

[DonThaiToMe]

"I don't think I need to read your original post and try again"

Funny how you did anyway...

[newcomer71]

How would the police know? They abandoned the area after watching the reds kill protesters in cold blood without doing anything. The army had to come in and rescue the students, the police let it all happen. Not to be trusted!

Why you have to change facts as better you like? Anyway... If you happy to tell something that is not true, it's your business.

[timoclark]

Yes, but don't believe whatever "facts" the Red police feed you.

There is also dispute as to whether there were human remains on the bus, and as to whether a full skeleton was found, and has been stated here many times before, a human body will not burn to the bone in such a fire. So like you said, let's try to use known facts and not buy everything the Red police say hook, line and sinker. They are very well know for being both inept and corrupt, representing this government very well.

How would the police know? They abandoned the area after watching the reds kill protesters in cold blood without doing anything. The army had to come in and rescue the students, the police let it all happen. Not to be trusted!

Seems to me, that 1 protester was (perhaps) killed by a red shirt, 3 others were red shirts killed by (maybe) the protesters and the unfortunate guy on the bus who seems to be either a protester or a re shirt (depending which article you read), but who was certainly killed when the protestors torched the bus.

Support which ever side you want, but let's try to use known facts and not make stuff up.

[tingtongteesood]

No snipers, say the BiBs, contrary to what the university-rector & students experienced.

So why were the police so afraid, to go in a stop the violence then ?

Pretend that they didn't exist, then the police can't be blamed, for not having caught or even identified any of them.

Now how is the national police-chief related to self-exiled former-PM Thaksin, once again ?

Yay for Red Police Investigations ! alt=whistling.gif pagespeed_url_hash=3700464609 width=19 height=18>

I wouldn't be surprised if the snipers were shooting blanks intended to invoke violence. Think about it, if someone is shooting at you from a building, you're going to think it was from the other mob.

Read in the BKK Post the Pol Maj Gen declined to comment as to whether there were snipers in university buildings. Neither does this article suggest police claim there were no snipers involved at all, it rather suggests that police think snipers weren't involved in any of the 5 deaths. Guess that's because autopsies, witnesses and bullet trajectory reports suggest people were killed at close range, and the fact that only hand guns seem to have been used (most people don't think of a sniper as someone who uses a hand gun, although obviously it could mean that in its wider rather than strictly military definition).

Police have apparently arrested people on both sides that had weapons, although whether they were the shooters, I don't know.

That may well be the case but the headline makes no such destinction. Most people will look at the headline and not bother to read the entire article properly. Once again poorly written headlines.

There's a very simple reason the BiB did nothing, as in 2010 they conveniently disappeared when the reds got violent because they supported the reds! same same this time, let the reds take care of the student protesters. Only this time they were on the receiving end! So much for Jutaporn's remarks about the reds knowing how to fight.

They ran!

Just a shame people have to die because of 1 person and his henchmen.

What a load of buffalo crap.

I were at Lumphini everyday up until the day when they "went in". And the BiB, togheter with the army were very much present indeed.

Don´t tell lies.

So is 99% of what you have said in your posts to date....

[haroldcane]

IMO...The reds came armed and prepared for a war and a few of them got shot a killed...They mis-caculated the response from the students and the beat a hasty retreat

could have been what the us-army calls 'collateral damage', 'friendly fire' or even the boss said: don't kill any yellows or we cannot blame THEM.

"response from the students"??? how do you know? the police should find out, where the shots came from or are they not allowed to say?

state top-secret? they say the 19 years old dead arsonist trapped in the burnt bus was NOT a read shirt, but he had declared himself a red-shirt-guard?

Edited December 8, 2013 by haroldcane

[AleG]

"...19-year-old Suradet, who was neither a red-shirt supporter nor a Ramkhamhaeng University student, police said. Suradet reportedly left his Ekamai home with friends and joined as a red-shirt guard....."

So red shirt guards are neutral politically, simply mercenary thugs?

The most acurate description of the events that led to the death of that man was in the Bangkok Post a couple days ago, from testimony of the mother and friends of the deceased.

The summary was that he and his friends went to the protest area to stir up good old non-partisan trouble, got inside the bus to steal and vandalize; one from that group started a fire and Suradet become trapped inside.

Really not much to do with the Ramkamheng students or the Red Shirts, except that this group of young men decided to make use of the chaos for a bit of "sport" with tragic results for one of them.

[rreddin]

No snipers, say the BiBs, contrary to what the university-rector & students experienced.

So why were the police so afraid, to go in a stop the violence then ?

Pretend that they didn't exist, then the police can't be blamed, for not having caught or even identified any of them.

Now how is the national police-chief related to self-exiled former-PM Thaksin, once again ?

Yay for Red Police Investigations !

I wouldn't be surprised if the snipers were shooting blanks intended to invoke violence. Think about it, if someone is shooting at you from a building, you're going to think it was from the other mob.

Read in the BKK Post the Pol Maj Gen declined to comment as to whether there were snipers in university buildings. Neither does this article suggest police claim there were no snipers involved at all, it rather suggests that police think snipers weren't involved in any of the 5 deaths. Guess that's because autopsies, witnesses and bullet trajectory reports suggest people were killed at close range, and the fact that only hand guns seem to have been used (most people don't think of a sniper as someone who uses a hand gun, although obviously it could mean that in its wider rather than strictly military definition).

Police have apparently arrested people on both sides that had weapons, although whether they were the shooters, I don't know.

Good post.

As regards the post from Ricardo, typical of many on this part of the forum. I am reminded od a line form "The Boxer" by Simon and Garfunkel:

"All lies and jest

Still, a man hears what he wants to hear

And disregards the rest."

Whose side am I on? I am on nobody's side because nobody is on my side.