Popular Post webfact Posted December 8, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted December 8, 2013 REGIONAL PERSPECTIVETime for the people to resume sovereigntyKavi ChongkittavornThe NationBANGKOK: -- Much has been said and done along the 81-year-old winding road of Thailand's troubled democratic route. While Thai politics always befuddles analysts, Thai people still think democracy is the best form of government. And it shows.Most arguments contain a cause-and-effect dichotomy, backed up with "evidence" citing the electoral process, and the logic of the rule of law and governance. On top of that, the class struggle, together with the urban/rural divide, are still the dominant themes used in explanations of the country's political turbulence.After the dramatic abdication of King Prajadhipok in June 1932, whenever the country encountered political deadlock, two obvious solutions came into effect. One was the usual military intervention that has been the key feature of Thai political shifts. After 17 coups with various justification and excuses, including the infamous "any inconvenience caused" of 2006, Thai democracy has become the butt of jokes worldwide. The other solution was through royal bestowment.After several decades of advocacy, various democratic institutions including check-and-balance institutions are still fragile and inefficient. The low level of public literacy and awareness of democratic values and collective responsibility remains problematic.From today onward, a new political landscape is in the offing even though nobody knows exactly where the future may lie.The snowball effect of the month-long demonstration has created new opportunities for efforts to undertake comprehensive political reform in the country. Various stakeholders have fervently demanded a democracy with Thai characteristics - a concept that needs further elaboration.During these past few weeks, new political discourse has taken place. Millions of people of all ages have taken up common platforms, shared a common political experience and learned directly the power of participatory politics at its best. In particular, the younger and even older generations have been baptised by intense political discourse and connectivity of crosscutting crowds at different locations that go beyond the usual political polarisations.When the small rally started modestly at Samsen railway station five weeks ago, with repeated apologies to residents living in the areas due to the loud noise of the protesters, nobody thought for a second the rally would snowball into a nation-wide movement. Other rallies comprised coalitions of civil society groups, student networks at different locations later joined by business and religious communities. Now all anti-government protesters have merged into a single movement known as the People’s Democrat Reform Committee.In a democracy, voters elect a government to take care of their livelihoods and run the country they belong to. Thailand is no exception. In this case, they temporarily ceded their sovereignty to the poll winners, including those who bought votes wholesale.The 2007 Constitution's Article 3 states succinctly that the sovereign powers belong to the Thai people. Today, the Thais are marching in all corners of the country and asking for the return of their sovereign rights. Under the charter's Section 10, Article 87, five provisions also clearly guarantee the broad-based rights of public participation in all state affairs. The Thai people want their sovereign rights back. This is a new political awakening, fragile and uncertain as it may be.It was ironic that last week Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul was appointed head of the Centre of Administration for Peace and Order. The hard-core Thaksin lieutenant was placed there to serve his boss in exile and protect his sister. Nonetheless, his actions will seriously impact on Thai diplomacy. Yingluck said he would be able to explain Thailand’s political situation to the international community. So far, Yingluck has done most of the talking.Her government is media savvy. While she shunned local media, she gave numerous interviews to foreign correspondents reiterating electoral victory without addressing accountability and abuses of power - the bone of contention. For weeks, she succeeded in creating a thick smoke screen masking a darker world of corruption, cronyism and complacency. Her media team wanted to use overseas pressure against the local media.The Western countries, which are the key supporters of "the principle of responsibility to protect", must be mindful that when a government does not serve its people, the state sovereignty should be returned to the people as soon as possible. Now the marchers are doing exactly that.Today's outcome is hard to predict even though the national mood has changed. One trend is clear, though, Thai politics is gradually breaking away from the all-too-familiar vicious cycle. With several hundred thousand people showing up and exercising their sovereign rights peacefully - the country’s rulers as well as the world at large need to listen in. It is no longer politics as usual.-- The Nation 2013-12-09 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post angsta Posted December 9, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2013 Three minutes of my life I will never get back. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post apetley Posted December 9, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2013 Someone needs to explain to the writer of the OP that democracy is not some committee appointed by a megalomaniac nut job. 16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post MaiChai Posted December 9, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2013 I thought that was an inspiring piece. Very easy to judge things under Western values, but democracy is in its infancy in Thailand and I have hope Thai society will become fairer and more just. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramrod711 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 It was ironic that last week Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul was appointed head of the Centre of Administration for Peace and Order. The hard-core Thaksin lieutenant was placed there to serve his boss in exile and protect his sister. This part was true, beyond all doubt. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post millwall_fan Posted December 9, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2013 What a load of absolute tosh, from someone calling himself a journalist. That may be the view held in the more expensive wine bars in Silom and in the senior common rooms of some universities, but it is not the view held by the majority in Nan or Phayao, or Kalasin or Nong Bualamphu - or indeed closer to (their) home in Samut Prakan. The dispossessed and unnecessarily-poor up and down the country are reasonably happy with Thaksinomics which has served the country pretty well for a number of years and led to one of Asias more stable economies. There is nothing wrong with Thailands democracy - it is one of the more robust in Asia. There is a massive problem with corruption. But this did not start in Thaksins era. It has been endemic in Thai society for generations. Overthrowing the elected government is not the answer. May God bless Thailand today. 12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRSoul Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 So the FM is busy at CAPO, and the PM is doing his job as well as Defence. You have to wonder who is running the country. Oh, yeah, business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post millwall_fan Posted December 9, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2013 I thought that was an inspiring piece. Very easy to judge things under Western values, but democracy is in its infancy in Thailand and I have hope Thai society will become fairer and more just. Democracy in Thailand has been around for quite long enough to have matured, had not the army mounted a coup every few years. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 96tehtarp Posted December 9, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) The "Time for the [Thai] people to resume sovereignty," is laid down very clearly in the Yellow constitution of 2007. It's every four years at the ballot box or sooner if the government of the day calls for fresh elections. What possibly could be simpler than that? Am I missing something here? Do some citizens feel they are more entitled to sovereignty than others? Who are these guys? Edited December 9, 2013 by 96tehtarp 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocN Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Some one should tell them, there is no democracy, no sovereignity by or for the Thai- people. You may call Thailand a democracy- it is not! Call a shoe a steak- you can still not eat it! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post SaamBaht Posted December 9, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2013 This guy's got nothing on Orwell. The protesters are returning the county to democracy with their un...elected people's council??? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I thought that was an inspiring piece. Very easy to judge things under Western values, but democracy is in its infancy in Thailand and I have hope Thai society will become fairer and more just. Democracy in Thailand has been around for quite long enough to have matured, had not the army mounted a coup every few years. Problem is the checks and balances and cronyism rules. IF they had some institutions checking the government by honest independent people appointed by the king or so on who would get like say 1% of the graft they discover and have to power to get documents that the government hides (like those on the rice scam) corruption would drop and it would not be beneficial for crooks to become politicians and there would be no fights about who is stealing the money at a certain time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MILT Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Three minutes of my life I will never get back. alt=facepalm.gif pagespeed_url_hash=4031585225 width=24 height=18> Someone needs to explain to the writer of the OP that democracy is not some committee appointed by a megalomaniac nut job. What a load of absolute tosh, from someone calling himself a journalist. That may be the view held in the more expensive wine bars in Silom and in the senior common rooms of some universities, but it is not the view held by the majority in Nan or Phayao, or Kalasin or Nong Bualamphu - or indeed closer to (their) home in Samut Prakan. The dispossessed and unnecessarily-poor up and down the country are reasonably happy with Thaksinomics which has served the country pretty well for a number of years and led to one of Asias more stable economies. There is nothing wrong with Thailands democracy - it is one of the more robust in Asia. There is a massive problem with corruption. But this did not start in Thaksins era. It has been endemic in Thai society for generations. Overthrowing the elected government is not the answer. May God bless Thailand today. Reminds of the "nashing of teeth" but please carry on with you views by all means you have the democratic right to state your opinion. Cause everyone has one No? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I thought that was an inspiring piece. Very easy to judge things under Western values, but democracy is in its infancy in Thailand and I have hope Thai society will become fairer and more just. I hear this often that democracy here is in its infancy. After 81 years I think the child has some serious learning disabilities. Of course in Thailand someone's teen years usually last about 3 decades. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crushdepth Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Someone needs to explain to the writer of the OP that democracy is not some committee appointed by a megalomaniac nut job. Well that's how Thaksin runs Pheua Thai and Cabinet / the government, isn't it? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbamboo Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 So the FM is busy at CAPO, and the PM is doing his job as well as Defence. You have to wonder who is running the country. Oh, yeah, business as usual. Must be the Third Hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 (edited) What a load of absolute tosh, from someone calling himself a journalist. That may be the view held in the more expensive wine bars in Silom and in the senior common rooms of some universities, but it is not the view held by the majority in Nan or Phayao, or Kalasin or Nong Bualamphu - or indeed closer to (their) home in Samut Prakan. The dispossessed and unnecessarily-poor up and down the country are reasonably happy with Thaksinomics which has served the country pretty well for a number of years and led to one of Asias more stable economies. There is nothing wrong with Thailands democracy - it is one of the more robust in Asia. There is a massive problem with corruption. But this did not start in Thaksins era. It has been endemic in Thai society for generations. Overthrowing the elected government is not the answer. May God bless Thailand today. Corruption did not originate in the Shinawatra era. It was one of the justifications for deposing the absolute monarchy but remained and thrived thereafter. However, Thaksin has taken corruption to new elevated levels helped by the 1997 constitution that strove to eliminate the system of fragmented coalition governments could get anything done. The 2007 constitution is not much different in this respect and having one party in power unchallenged makes corruption much more of a problem than it was with the fragmented politics of the 80s and 90s. Now the economy's long term trend rate has slowed to a crawl and corruption is consuming an ever growing portion of the national budget that is already a relatively small percentage of GDP. With increasing demands for welfare programmes, the country cannot afford to have so much stolen from the budget. However, with rice pledging scheme already deeply mired in corruption and causing a huge dent in govt finances, the government is only interested in coming up with wasteful white elephant projects to steal taxpayers' money like the hi-speed train network. Time for reform to reduce corruption and increase accountability. Edited December 9, 2013 by Dogmatix 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogmatix Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 So the FM is busy at CAPO, and the PM is doing his job as well as Defence. You have to wonder who is running the country. Oh, yeah, business as usual. Must be the Third Hand. It is the third hoof of the Dubai camel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 What a load of absolute tosh, from someone calling himself a journalist. That may be the view held in the more expensive wine bars in Silom and in the senior common rooms of some universities, but it is not the view held by the majority in Nan or Phayao, or Kalasin or Nong Bualamphu - or indeed closer to (their) home in Samut Prakan. The dispossessed and unnecessarily-poor up and down the country are reasonably happy with Thaksinomics which has served the country pretty well for a number of years and led to one of Asias more stable economies. There is nothing wrong with Thailands democracy - it is one of the more robust in Asia. There is a massive problem with corruption. But this did not start in Thaksins era. It has been endemic in Thai society for generations. Overthrowing the elected government is not the answer. May God bless Thailand today. Corruption did not originate in the Shinawatra era. It was one of the justifications for deposing the absolute monarchy but remained and thrived thereafter. However, Thaksin has taken corruption to new elevated levels helped by the 1997 constitution that strove to eliminate the system of fragmented coalition governments could get anything done. The 2007 constitution is not much different in this respect and having one party in power unchallenged makes corruption much more of a problem than it was with the fragmented politics of the 80s and 90s. Now the economy's long term trend rate has slowed to a crawl and corruption is consuming an ever growing portion of the national budget that is already a relatively small percentage of GDP. With increasing demands for welfare programmes, the country cannot afford to have so much stolen from the budget. However, with rice pledging scheme already deeply mired in corruption and causing a huge dent in govt finances, the government is only interested in coming up with wasteful white elephant projects to steal taxpayers' money like the hi-speed train network. Time for reform to reduce corruption and increase accountability. Just look how Thailand has fallen int he corruption index last year.. this is a clear sign of how corrupt the Shinawatra's and their government are.. far worse then the Democrats ever were. A interdependent.. powerful institution must be created, corruption investigated by them should be fast tracked..if corrupt they should be sentenced and paying back the money they stole plus a fine. Give the institution that did it a 1% bonus for it and make sure these are honest people (yea yea some of you seem to believe there are no honest Thais). This way both red and yellow wont be able to steal much and the attraction for crooks to become politicians to get rich will dissapear and you will get a better class of leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt1591 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 ... democracy is in its infancy in Thailand ... According to the author, it's an 81 year old 'infant". It's about time for it to grow up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emdog Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 The writer needs to take some refresher math courses, along with reasoning. Even if one million were marching in Bangkok, that is not "The Thai People". The silent majority out in the rest of the country are too busy trying to earn a living to come to Bangkok. Corruption is endemic regardless of which group is on top of the pig pile. The capitol needs to be moved far from Bangkok. It is usually a common idea in many democracies to have the capitol in a smaller town, as the large cities already exert far too much influence on politics. I took a geography class decades ago and recall prof pointing out that ratio of Bangkok population to rest of country was already too out of the norm. Everything outside of Bangkok is "beyond the pale" (look for origin of that phrase!). If the condition of the country is as bad as anti government group say it is, they should have no problem winning the election. And as a group have more money to buy votes than just Taksin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Baerboxer Posted December 9, 2013 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2013 Someone needs to explain to the writer of the OP that democracy is not some committee appointed by a megalomaniac nut job. Neither is it a government that acts illegally, lies regularly to the people. tries to pass laws to benefit itself and family, appoints based on nepotism and cronyism and increases corrupt practices. Even if they were elected with the biggest minority. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baerboxer Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 What a load of absolute tosh, from someone calling himself a journalist. That may be the view held in the more expensive wine bars in Silom and in the senior common rooms of some universities, but it is not the view held by the majority in Nan or Phayao, or Kalasin or Nong Bualamphu - or indeed closer to (their) home in Samut Prakan. The dispossessed and unnecessarily-poor up and down the country are reasonably happy with Thaksinomics which has served the country pretty well for a number of years and led to one of Asias more stable economies. There is nothing wrong with Thailands democracy - it is one of the more robust in Asia. There is a massive problem with corruption. But this did not start in Thaksins era. It has been endemic in Thai society for generations. Overthrowing the elected government is not the answer. May God bless Thailand today. Thaksinomics has served the Shin Corp exceedingly well, And all their extended "family and friends". Rice scam,hoped for water management scam, even more hoped for 2.2 trillion loan scam, very expensive clocks for parliament scam, let's buy 4 planes for our own use scam. etc etc etc. No transparency, no accountability, no plans with detailed budgets, little whites lies, hidden or contradictory figures - don't worry about all this, just give us the money! I'm sure Thaksinomics has delivered some fantastic results - unfortunately we shall never know because the beneficiaries won't be saying. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Three minutes of my life I will never get back. The mere fact that you take the time to post on this forum must then prove you, like many of us, have time on your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hellodolly Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 I thought that was an inspiring piece. Very easy to judge things under Western values, but democracy is in its infancy in Thailand and I have hope Thai society will become fairer and more just. I think the problem is here. After several decades of advocacy, various democratic institutions including check-and-balance institutions are still fragile and inefficient. The low level of public literacy and awareness of democratic values and collective responsibility remains problematic. The answer is here as long as it includes better and better education systems. there will be no quick fix. It would take the stature of a man who has other duties to Thailand that occupy his time. In my opinion there is no one of his equal. I do not personally care for Abhist but as it sits today he is the best man for the job. I may very well be wrong as I was not paying that much attention but I believe he was trying to make schooling a little bit more affordable for the poor. He had also done away with the 30 baht for medical. It may not sound like much but it cost the government 50 baht to process that 30 baht with a net loss to the government of 20 baht. On a national scale that was a lot of money that could have been used to further improve the heaalth care system. From today onward, a new political landscape is in the offing even though nobody knows exactly where the future may lie. When I talk about education I am not talking about teaching a field hand how to speak English. I am talking about teaching him how to reason do simple arithmetic with out a calculator. Make decisions based on his own ability to reason logically. How to learn is so important. They graduate them now with a head full of stuff and no way to learn more. Reminds me of a man who influenced me to go to colege and take some courses. I told him some of the dumbest people I knew were collage grad's and he said that was because they did no9t learn how to learn that is a very basic fact there that many people don't take advantage of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waza Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 This guy's got nothing on Orwell. The protesters are returning the county to democracy with their un...elected people's council??? The protestor are the people of Thailand and they are moving Thailand towards democracy with their peoples council by moving it away from a Thaksin controlled dictatorship. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckamuck Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Yes the best way towards democracy is to remove the elected government and replace it with a non elected one. Makes sense to me. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcomer71 Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Total idiotic, naive and utter Democratic / Suthep propaganda... Exactly what people doesn't need to resume sovereignty. Both factions, different moves, same bad. No hopes for my Thai brothers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benmart Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Three minutes of my life I will never get back. When one gives it freely, no conditions or admonishments are implied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentors Posted December 9, 2013 Share Posted December 9, 2013 Maybe the Thai people should listen to the last song of late George Harrison - BRAINWASHED... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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