Why are so many foreigners backing Suthep?

[UncleJ]

Suthep is being fairly straight forward.

Run the PM and her entire family out of the country and let the incredibly corrupt Thai army and their backers continue to pillage the nation for another 60 years.

[bluie3]

When you read comments on TV you might get that opinion, but me, like others who have replied don't support his evil comments and ways. Maybe you have heard too that the way to ovoid the truth about yourself is to attack, with no evidence, those who you consider are your 'enemy'. I mentioned yesterday how Yingluck was dux of her class at Chiang Mai University - certainly not a STUPID WOMAN. To disagree with this could only be from a hateful person who has another agenda.

In the charming village where I live in rural Thailand, we didn't have anyone 'pay' for a vote. The elderly can now go to the hospital for help for just 30B. Elderly with no private income smile becaue we have OTOP programs and they can sell their goods, The 'unusually rich' had their incomes affected when the drug mules were taken out even though there is still a lot or work to be done in this area. The 'rice' scheme was to take out the 'middle men/womaen' who have always had their snouts in the trough. the Banks able to lend money at 7% p/a took the loansharks noses out of the trough too - I'd vote for those who have helped me too and do my best to maintain democracy however it is evolving.

No, I don't support Mr S and his handlers.

Don't forget the reason why Central World burnt was beause Mr S and his handlers had turned off the power and the water so the sprinkers COULDN'T work - there is doubt it was the red-shirts anyway.

[Frank James]

Perhaps we would like a government which doesn't treat expats and their Thai families as unreasonably as the current one.

If ultra-nationalist Suthep or someone like him comes in, things will get much harder for farangs. He has gone on record several times saying very harsh things against foreigners.

[stoli]

I personally think that, as foreigners being guest in this country, we shouldn't involve in national matters that we mostly do not understand.

1- We have accepted (for different personal - good - reasons) to have no domestic right.

2- Paying taxes and spending money here didn't change our blood. None of us can become Thai nor can "think Thai"

3- Even after 10 or 20 years here, we will not understand totally the positions of each side.

4- If we want Thai people to respect us, let's start to be respectable. Let's be out of these national matters concerning Thais only.

5- Whatever the government is or will be, if we want to live in Thailand we must follow the rules.

6- If we are not happy, so let's go back to our countries and be fine there ;-)

I am totally against the foreigners who are taking position for this color or against that one, blablabla.

This is kid game played by old kids who have nothing to do in Thai people stories.

I am sure that most of Thai people do not appreciate this kind of behavior from some farangs...

My wife is Thai.

I share some of her points of view, I disagree with some others. I talk with her and try to help her comparing different possibilities, avoiding straight and strong positions.

At the end of the day, I will always back her (and protect her) just because she is my wife, and also because she is bright and totally involve in a positive social life.

But I will never go to protest in the streets, nor I will take any political position in public.

It doesn't mean that I cannot be an observer and have my own analysis of the country and current situation.

But I do know that can understand only a very small part of the problem.

This is my own way to show respect to Thai people who have welcomed me, and to give them a good picture about foreigners as well. As I told above, if we want to be respected we should start first to be respectable.

Any country out of mine that I have visited, I have never got any trouble with local people.

I can hear and read so many complains from foreigners here that I often wonder why they stay in Thailand...

Why do they want to get more trouble by involving in Thai private matters?...

Cheers ;-)

I don't think the OP was saying he would be in the streets protesting, but just stating his opinion, just as you have. I certainly agree with most of what you have stated, but you have to admit that some of your statements contradict your other statements. I would certainly hope that after 20 years here, and studying the Thai political system, that I would understand it. Yes, there is nothing that I want to do to change the system, because as has been pointed out, I will never have the right to vote. It is interesting to follow it, and see how differently, and how much the same, their system is like those where we have come from.

[pomchop]

Maybe because the only "side" of the story that many falangs read come from the anti Taksin media...as always there is two sides. Here is an interesting view from the pro Taksin media. I have no idea if the numbers quoted are correct but if so it would seem that there is good reason for so many people to support some of the programs he put into place.

BANGKOK – It has gone quiet in Bangkok, as the people who have been trying to overthrow the government tidy up the debris that litters the city after the last two weeks of demonstrations.

Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra is taking an equally low-key approach. The Thai Army has removed the barbed wire that surrounded government offices, and protesters are wandering through the prime minister’s offices and picnicking on the lawns while she runs the affairs of state from some other location in the capital. But by next week the Civil Movement for Democracy will be back in action, and the final outcome is not clear.

The main thing that distinguishes the Civil Movement for Democracy is its profound dislike for democracy. In the mass demonstrations that have shaken Thailand since Nov. 24, its supporters have been trying to remove a prime minister who was elected only two years ago — and their goal is not another election.

“We don’t want new elections because we will lose anyway,” one protester told Reuters. “We want (the prime minister’s family) to leave the country.”

If they succeeded in driving Yingluck from power, they would skip the whole business of elections and hand the country over to an appointed “People’s Council” made up of “good men.”

These good men would naturally agree with protest leader Suthep Thaugsuban that the majority of the Thai people are too ignorant and flighty to be trusted with the vote. “From a Western point of view, “democracy” is an elected government serving as the people’s representative,” he told The Guardian. “Unfortunately, elections in Thailand do not represent people’s (real) choices because their votes are bought.”

They are “bought” not by bribes but by government spending on free health care and anti-poverty programs. In most democracies this is seen as part of the normal political process, but Suthep and his supporters, who include a high proportion of the country’s professional and middle classes, especially in the capital, regard it as illegitimate.

The current government has destroyed “the virtues and ethics of the people,” Suthep says, but with time and hard work the unelected People’s Council could make them moral again and “put the country on the path to perfect democracy.” We can even imagine that the poor might eventually become enlightened enough to be trusted with the vote again.

There is a conflict between the interests of the rich and the poor in most countries. In democracies it normally plays out in the electoral competition of right- and left-wing parties, and some compromise (always temporary and contentious) is arrived at via the ballot box. But in Thailand, the rich take to the streets.

They do so because they always lose the elections. In five elections since 2001, the winner every time has been Thaksin Shinawatra or somebody chosen by him. Thaksin is a man of humble origins who built the country’s largest mobile phone provider and then went into politics. He proved to be unbeatable.

His record in power has not been above reproach. He was careless of human rights, particularly in his war on drug dealers (he used death squads), and his family fortune benefited to some degree from his influence on government policy. But he wasn’t really in it for the money — he was already mega-rich before he went into politics — and he knew exactly what the poor needed. To the horror of relatively wealthy Bangkok and the south, he gave it to them.

He set up programs like village-managed micro-credit development funds and low-interest agricultural loans. He created a universal health care system and provided low-cost access to anti-HIV medications.

Yet between 2001 and the coup that overthrew him in 2006, GDP grew by 30 percent, public sector debt fell from 57 per cent of GDP to 41 per cent, and foreign exchange reserves doubled. He even managed to balance the budget.

Income in the northeast, the poorest part of the country, rose by 41 percent. Poverty nationwide dropped from 21 percent to 11 percent, and the prevalence of HIV/AIDS declined. Thaksin even allowed the 2.3 million migrant workers in the country to register and qualify for health coverage.

From the point of view of the opposition Democratic Party, all this was just “buying the people’s votes.” When Thaksin won the 2005 election with an increased majority, it conspired with the military to overthrow him. He was then tried on corruption charges, but fled the country before the inevitable verdict and has since lived in exile, mostly in Dubai. But his party, reformed and renamed, goes on winning every time there is an election.

That’s why his 46-year-old sister is now the prime minister. She probably does do what he says most of the time, but there’s no crime in that: The voters who put her there were really voting for Thaksin. And if the current insurrection in Bangkok overthrows her, they will vote for whoever else represents Thaksin next time there is an election. The right in Thailand should really grow up and get over it.

by Gwynne Dyer

All credibility diminishes when you see "the Guardian".

No mention of Thaksin's human rights issues, the war on drugs, Tai Bak. The last paragraph sums it up nicely. This writer, editor and newspaper see nothing wrong in a Prime Minister and her government doing what a convicted criminal fugitive tells them.

Of course, she implies the conviction was unjust, but offers no evidence to support that, or inquire why he didn't appeal and fight, or that his relation was PM at the time; fails to mention he has many more outstanding charges waiting or that the government have been trying to whitewash him for 2.5 years as their priority.

She doesn't mention the rice scheme and water management fiasco or the 2,2 trillion off budget loan. She doesn't mention vote buying and coercion or the illegal acts of the current government.

If you want pro Thaksin propaganda then The Guardian is a good place to look. They always support corrupt dictators providing the dictators pretend to be a peoples' party.

I don't support Suthep and his extreme ideas. But, the PTP regime lie, cheat, steal, ignore the law and parliamentary rules, and treat the Thai people with utter contempt. I know many Thais who protested not because they support Suthep but because they've seen through this scam of a government. They want them out .......... but the choice of replacement is somewhat limited too.

"But, the PTP regime lie, cheat, steal, ignore the law and parliamentary rules, and treat the Thai people with utter contempt." - and you think Suthep doesn't? Check out his behaviour in Phuket land sales in the 90s....

... and what do you mean by "and treat the Thai people with utter contempt"? Do you want to imply that the elite/royalists/urban middle class who are behind the protests and behave undemocratically are the Thais and the other people are not?

No mention of Thaksin's human rights issues, the war on drugs

UH DUH did you even read the article before posting? There is most certainly mention of human rights and the war on drugs in a critical way....perhaps you'd like to try again and actually read before going into an anti taksin rant....otherwise "All credibility diminishes"....perhaps you'd also like to enlighten us as to how much the GDP grew and poverty declined under the dems?

[UncleJ]

When you read comments on TV you might get that opinion, but me, like others who have replied don't support his evil comments and ways. Maybe you have heard too that the way to ovoid the truth about yourself is to attack, with no evidence, those who you consider are your 'enemy'. I mentioned yesterday how Yingluck was dux of her class at Chiang Mai University - certainly not a STUPID WOMAN. To disagree with this could only be from a hateful person who has another agenda.

In the charming village where I live in rural Thailand, we didn't have anyone 'pay' for a vote. The elderly can now go to the hospital for help for just 30B. Elderly with no private income smile becaue we have OTOP programs and they can sell their goods, The 'unusually rich' had their incomes affected when the drug mules were taken out even though there is still a lot or work to be done in this area. The 'rice' scheme was to take out the 'middle men/womaen' who have always had their snouts in the trough. the Banks able to lend money at 7% p/a took the loansharks noses out of the trough too - I'd vote for those who have helped me too and do my best to maintain democracy however it is evolving.

No, I don't support Mr S and his handlers.

Don't forget the reason why Central World burnt was beause Mr S and his handlers had turned off the power and the water so the sprinkers COULDN'T work - there is doubt it was the red-shirts anyway.

Exactly. They like Thaksin.

Over the years, I've asked numerous taxi drivers why they support Thaksin? Every time they say, "jobs."

They don't say "I get a free lunch every 4 years at election time."

Things are booming upcountry. Impossible to legally unseat Thaksins group.

[Mrvalentino]

A well written source of information that provides a well informed study on Thai politics is the Land Destroyer site. I find it rather "fascist" calling people names against a massive populace of Thai's who are not fools, and want to stand up for their rights and protests peacefully against their corrupt government. The massive peaceful protests in Bangkok were only turned violent after the Shinawatra 'Red' supporters from the North were buses into Bangkok throwing bricks and shooting at the protestors at the University who were peacefully protesting against the Government. This provocateur act by the Government supporters is a typical tactic used to discredit the massive number of "whistleblower" protestors/ the anti Shinawatra Government.

If you like to learn a little more read the Land Destroyer articles online, which gives a very fair and informed view IMO:

1: http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/thailand-historic-turnout-shakes-regime.html

2: http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/bangkok-thailand-mass-mobilization.html

3. http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com.au/2013/12/thailands-regime-cambodian-connection.html

[tragickingdom]

The same reason as why Abhisit and his friends back Suthep. Foreigners come to Thailand and stay in rural areas so they are misinformed and have neither the will, nor do they speak enough of the language to go to the country side and see for themselves what bullish** arguments Suthep is using. Moreover foreigners do not tend to have more than half a brain, they obviously come here mostly for cheap sex and alcohol. They speak to bargirls as if they are imbeciles and have just as little grey cells and they have. Bet you that 99% of the foreigners think Thaksin has been convicted of corruption just like CNN while it was a conflict of interest charge, the same foreigners have no clue that Suthep was banned from politics for a worse kind of conflict of interest charge that he robbed the country for billions of baht in a land scandal during the tenure of Chuan (Who IF they already know who he is will get the name of mister clean, even though his brother is wanted on fraud charges), those foreigners have no idea about the price rigging scandal of palm oil an industry ruled by Suthep and his family and tend to forget about the bribe scandals in which Suthep was involved. Because foreigners tend to drink too much alcohol they forget quickly and have no clue that Suthep sent snipers into the streets to kill 90 people even in temple complexes. The fact of the matter is that most foreigners will support anyone who are in the sex trade like the minister of commerce under Suthep/Abhisit. foreigners are not remotely interested in democracy, they are interested in the status quo. Suthep takes care of that. He keeps the rural area poor and thus take care of a steady flow of much needed pussy.

[TVGerry]

THE ONELY WAY TO DEAL WITH PUSHERS (DEALERS)

That's a stupid thing to say. People have their own beliefs and just because one supports Suthep doesn't make one 'fascist'.

If you want to make things simple, then you can say people who support Thaksin and his cronies are corrupt thieves and murderers. After all, thousands died during his 'drug war' while there were various massacres in the South.

Typing in CAPS doesn't make your idiot statements any less idiotic.

Many of the thousands who died weren't even in the drug trade. And thousands of deaths later, the drug trade wasn't eliminated was it?

Funny, the drug deaths were not investigated by Thaksin's enemies, no?

Why?

It was done for someone way up the food chain, way, way up.

They don't mind Thaksin getting the blame.

Yes Thaksin didn't order the 'war' that killed thousands, it was someone way up the food chain! Must be one of those damned amarts that Thaksin isn't.

[chuang]

Because they have the same grey matters as mad suthep..

[klauskunkel]

The Op is winding us up...he did not respond once.

Time to ignore the dud...

[NoshowJones]

People don't change their political views when they move to Thailand.

Probably not, but in the UK, the Labour Party is supposed to be the party of the working classes, but it never has been in my adult lifetime. Only the Thai people, or maybe expats who know about Thai politics (certainly not me) will know if the red shirts party is the party of the Thai working classes.

[DocN]

I don't!

Neither of these corrupt, self-serving, undemocratic air- heads!

[212traders]

I'm not backing Suthep. Thai people need to learn to follow the democratic procedure. It seems that all they have to do is protest and then they get their way. What's the point of having a parliament?

If Yingluck survive a no-confident vote, then stick with it. If every country's government operate like Thailand, then the whole world will be in chaos.

[JosteinSetsaas]

Backin Suthep? a)The hopefully few doing that to drunk to even know the intepretation of the word Real Democracy.

[Greer]

What a dope - glad to see his taxes paid to the farmers???

So which farmers are those then?

You mean all the farmers who have sold their rice to the government but have not been paid yet - those farmers?

The money isn't going to the farmers - you should know damned well where the money is going - unless you are completely blind.

The problems that the protesters are complaining about are not just affecting Bangkok - obviously - and will not just affect Bangkok in future - they will destroy Thailand with unbelievable debt, the rice pledging scheme has failed but look at the costs, the flood mitigation didnt work but look at the costs, the train project - billions in investment, but will Thailand reap benefits or just the few who assist the Chinese?

The bigger picture is that although Suthep is not lily white, the people they are condemning in places of power wanted to CHANGE the constitution - what the hell do you think the people are complaining about - or dont you understand the background to all of this?

[JoeLing]

I personally think that, as foreigners being guest in this country, we shouldn't involve in national matters that we mostly do not understand.

1- We have accepted (for different personal - good - reasons) to have no domestic right.

2- Paying taxes and spending money here didn't change our blood. None of us can become Thai nor can "think Thai"

3- Even after 10 or 20 years here, we will not understand totally the positions of each side.

4- If we want Thai people to respect us, let's start to be respectable. Let's be out of these national matters concerning Thais only.

5- Whatever the government is or will be, if we want to live in Thailand we must follow the rules.

6- If we are not happy, so let's go back to our countries and be fine there ;-)

I am totally against the foreigners who are taking position for this color or against that one, blablabla.

This is kid game played by old kids who have nothing to do in Thai people stories.

I am sure that most of Thai people do not appreciate this kind of behavior from some farangs...

My wife is Thai.

I share some of her points of view, I disagree with some others. I talk with her and try to help her comparing different possibilities, avoiding straight and strong positions.

At the end of the day, I will always back her (and protect her) just because she is my wife, and also because she is bright and totally involve in a positive social life.

But I will never go to protest in the streets, nor I will take any political position in public.

It doesn't mean that I cannot be an observer and have my own analysis of the country and current situation.

But I do know that can understand only a very small part of the problem.

This is my own way to show respect to Thai people who have welcomed me, and to give them a good picture about foreigners as well. As I told above, if we want to be respected we should start first to be respectable.

Any country out of mine that I have visited, I have never got any trouble with local people.

I can hear and read so many complains from foreigners here that I often wonder why they stay in Thailand...

Why do they want to get more trouble by involving in Thai private matters?...

Cheers ;-)

I personally believe, as a host, I will treat my guests with respect and courtesy and try to make them feel like home.

As a host, I will interact with my guests and not treat them like slaves, I will listen to what my guests have to say and

always try to improve relations. As a host, inviting people in to my home I will NOT rob them, beat them or blame

them for what ever might go wrong in my home. On the other hand, I expect my guests to behave and take care

of my home as they would in their own home.

1- You might have accepted that. I haven't.

2 - If I have a duty to pay business tax and income tax, then I have a right to know for what.

3 - To be honest, I don't think many of the Thai politicians fully understand their own positions.

You recon a 22 year old student has more knowledge about his own country then a foreigner

that LIVES in a foreign country, works there, integrates and contributes to that society?

(BTW - I know this 82 year old Thai guy, pure Thai. Never been abroad or has much contact with

foreigners and he doesn't have a clue on any position of any side from any government at all)

4 - Anyone who askes for respect, does not deserve it. Anyone who deserves respect, does not need to ask for.

5 - Where ever we live, what ever game we play, we should follow the rules, not only in Thailand.

6 - This is the most stupid statement of all time, anywhere.

(Just because one doesn't like the cherry on the cake, he shouldn't have the cake?)

I have absolute no problem when foreigners discuss their views here on TV. "Share some of their points of view,

disagree with some others. Talking with other foreigners comparing different possibilities, WITHOUT avoiding straight

and strong positions.

I fully agree with you, if people have to become personal and abusive, even threatening and violent because of

some one else's view, then that is kids game. Played by old miserable kids who have nothing to do in any one's

story. Just like you, I am sure that most of people anywhere would not appreciate this kind of behaviour from some anyone.

PS: "..... avoiding straight and strong positions." Yeah, I know, had to do that with my wife too and she wasn't even Thai

Edited December 11, 2013 by JoeLing

[eldragon]

I personally think that, as foreigners being guest in this country, we shouldn't involve in national matters that we mostly do not understand.

1- We have accepted (for different personal - good - reasons) to have no domestic right.

2- Paying taxes and spending money here didn't change our blood. None of us can become Thai nor can "think Thai"

3- Even after 10 or 20 years here, we will not understand totally the positions of each side.

4- If we want Thai people to respect us, let's start to be respectable. Let's be out of these national matters concerning Thais only.

5- Whatever the government is or will be, if we want to live in Thailand we must follow the rules.

6- If we are not happy, so let's go back to our countries and be fine there ;-)

I am totally against the foreigners who are taking position for this color or against that one, blablabla.

This is kid game played by old kids who have nothing to do in Thai people stories.

I am sure that most of Thai people do not appreciate this kind of behavior from some farangs...

My wife is Thai.

I share some of her points of view, I disagree with some others. I talk with her and try to help her comparing different possibilities, avoiding straight and strong positions.

At the end of the day, I will always back her (and protect her) just because she is my wife, and also because she is bright and totally involve in a positive social life.

But I will never go to protest in the streets, nor I will take any political position in public.

It doesn't mean that I cannot be an observer and have my own analysis of the country and current situation.

But I do know that can understand only a very small part of the problem.

This is my own way to show respect to Thai people who have welcomed me, and to give them a good picture about foreigners as well. As I told above, if we want to be respected we should start first to be respectable.

Any country out of mine that I have visited, I have never got any trouble with local people.

I can hear and read so many complains from foreigners here that I often wonder why they stay in Thailand...

Why do they want to get more trouble by involving in Thai private matters?...

Cheers ;-)

This makes all the sense in the world. After 30+ years in USA, I can't begin to explain why people from the west coast behave differently from those who were raised on the east coast. So there's no way I'll ever understand most of the issues that exist between Thais. We're guests here. We can talk to our Thai friends about it. Share our opinions. Offer some advice and perspective. But best not to get involved on a deeper level.

[GinBoy2]

Thai politics is one of the comforting aspects of living here. Like the seasons, it's predictable and never fails to deliver the same result....Elections-Demonstrations-Coup-Installed Government (never the one that actually won)-Demonstrations-Elections, and repeat....makes me feel all warm and fuzzy in the certainty of it all. Darn sight more dependable than my Internet connection or my electric supply! LOL

Edited December 11, 2013 by GinBoy2

[GinBoy2]

...and one last thing before I let the rest of you rant to your hearts content. Is Suthep in anyway related to Michelle Bachman or Sarah Palin? If not, they all seem to have studied from the same 'Book of Crazy'

[darren84310]

Dear Kawaiimomo

I don't think that these foreigners like Suthep. However, most do have first hand knowledge that PT bought their votes. It's difficult to try and defend this, because I'm sure that I'm not the only one who has heard this from PT supporters themselves. PT supporters would not turn out in anything like the numbers that they do if they weren't receiving Thaksin's money to do so.

I have spoken to many Yellow Shirts and many Red Shirts. The yellows are far from perfect but the majority have some understanding of democracy, whereas the majority of reds have no idea.

The press like to portray the yellows as the elite class but the large majority are working class.

In a democracy the Government cannot overrule the decision of the Constitutional Court. That's exactly what PT did.

I understand the Democrats frustrations and their urgency to remove an inept and very corrupt government. However, I think they should have waited for PT to hang themselves, as they were getting very close to it with the rice pledging scheme. It would have probably bankrupt the country, the farmers would not have received their promised money and PT/Thaksin would then have lost the support of the North.

Now if the Democrats take power, they will get the blame for not being able to pay the farmers and all hell could break loose. Maybe with the return to power of Thaksin.

One thing that the Democrats aren't good at is strategy.

[skippie999]

Suthep makes new rules every day. first the amnesty bill (which many people hated). then the government had to resign. the he wants to install his own government etc. since the army do not listen to him a coop cannot be done.

the king do not want to mix in because he wants to stay as popular as he is.

The reds are stupid that they made yinluck what she is. they all could understand that the family issues were going to be more important than the country. if she was not in the picture they had more chance to stay out of the attacks. now it is too easy.

Who says that all the yellow want to deal with suthep at all? he has weird ideas but not when the rallies started! so the yellows see the changes of his program every day and most of them do not want those rules he makes as well?

It stays a fact that 80% of the reds never paid tax in their life (if you earn up to 150k baht per year you pay 0.0 tax) and the yellow pay 90% of all the tax in the whole country! so the none paying tax people in thailand can 100% decide what they do with the tax money and when it shows that the tax money is used the wrong way and used by corruption there is a severe problem that can not go on forever. When yinluck changed the salary per day from 250 to 300 baht (20% for 80% of the people!!) that is an economic disaster which is totally bad for the poor people. all prices have gone up more than the actually pay rise.

if the country should have election rights for only people who use a tax form, the result would be almost 100% yellowish! not that that would be a fair system but because there is too much difference between rich and poor, there is almost no fair system to think of that is fair and suitable. probably an interim government with 50% red and 50% yellow without the sinawatra family? who knows the solution....

[ianf]

I am afraid that the original poster and his followers have no clear understanding of either fascism or Thai politics.

In my estimation many foreigners back Suthep (although he does appear a little clumsy) because they fully understand the nature of the Shinawatra clan and the fascism that grips them.

If you want to talk about fascism, you need look no further than the actions of the red leadership during the 2010 siege of Bangkok.

Did you hear any policy from the red stages? No, you didn't. You only have to go to u-Tube to gain an insight into the nature of those speeches. In Mein Kamp (Hitler's opus) Hitler was very clear that when addressing the masses you do not use 'argumentation' and he went on to talk about the nature of emotional input (manipulation) to tie the masses to your flag.

I have posted oft and often here on Thai Visa about the parallels between Mussolini (for example) and the antics of Thaksin. If you want a lesson in history I can post the facts here but I'd urge you to study what happened with Mussolini and his 700,000 supporters pre-war. And what happened in Italy after he gained the power he sought? Starvation, concentration camps, poverty, murders, torture.

If you want to study the nature of fascism a bit further, then try Wilhelm Reich's Mass Psychology of Fascism. You'll be astounded about the synergy between the Thaksin approach and what Hitler recommended. I kid you not.

So please do not misunderstand the current situation and please don't use the word 'fascism' in such a light and dismissive manner.

But what about the current standoff?

Well, you can't avoid the fact that this is a standoff between the runaway dictator in waiting and authority higher than Suthep. This is not about the elite as Thaksin would have you believe, after all Thaksin is a part of the elite and the antics of his family mirrors the worst of that behaviour. If you look at people like Prem, members of the Privy Council and others of that ilk, all you see is utter despair, as they watch their country being town apart by a sociopath who exercises so much power only because of the depth of his pockets. It's money politics like we've never seen before.

Thaksin is also backed by Hun Sen, who'd have you believe that he is a democratic leader when in fact he seized power through a coup and retained his position through what he termed 'elections'. And the same situation can arise here. The Shinawatras know how to manipulate an election result - we've seen it time and time again. This time they have a 400 million baht war chest that will provide funds to tambons to improve the lives of their people and hand out cash - just a week or two before Feb 2. Off course, last time they had such bribes as free computers, rice guarantees, cheap cars and credit cards for farmers - but there was not one policy that was of direct benefit to the masses. The computers, for example, are not used (or used minimally), the tax-back on cars has created a large market in used cars, congested the roads, caused deaths and accidents with new drivers who have no license or insurance.The rice-pledging scheme is a disastrous shambles. But behind all this the main policy was to bring Thaksin back, absolved of all his crimes.

Then they used their power, money, PR people to make effective propaganda against Abhisit and call him a murderer. Tomorrow (12th) is the day they've long-promised the reds when Abhisit and Suthep face ridiculous charges arising from the occupation of Bangkok. I have yet to see any action against Thaksin for his 2500 extra-judicial killings of so-called drug dealers - some of who were drug users (not dealers) and some of whom were political opponents.

Let me also say that during the Suthep demonstrations, I have seen nothing close to the events before the red occupation: The events in Pattaya are a great example.

I do not believe any foreigner with an ounce of understanding of these events could possibly support Thaksin. If they do, it is either out of ignorance or from an ideological base which is closer to fascism than Democracy. Certainly, these people do not understand the nature of democracy. I am sorry to be so hard on you guys, but this is a serious topic where throw away and dismissive lines really add nothing at all and this is a country where the word 'democracy' has no meaning amongst the masses and has been hijacked by a nasty sociopathic would-be dictator.

Edited December 11, 2013 by ianf

[ianf]

I personally think that, as foreigners being guest in this country, we shouldn't involve in national matters that we mostly do not understand.

1- We have accepted (for different personal - good - reasons) to have no domestic right.

2- Paying taxes and spending money here didn't change our blood. None of us can become Thai nor can "think Thai"

3- Even after 10 or 20 years here, we will not understand totally the positions of each side.

4- If we want Thai people to respect us, let's start to be respectable. Let's be out of these national matters concerning Thais only.

5- Whatever the government is or will be, if we want to live in Thailand we must follow the rules.

6- If we are not happy, so let's go back to our countries and be fine there ;-)

I am totally against the foreigners who are taking position for this color or against that one, blablabla.

This is kid game played by old kids who have nothing to do in Thai people stories.

I am sure that most of Thai people do not appreciate this kind of behavior from some farangs...

My wife is Thai.

I share some of her points of view, I disagree with some others. I talk with her and try to help her comparing different possibilities, avoiding straight and strong positions.

At the end of the day, I will always back her (and protect her) just because she is my wife, and also because she is bright and totally involve in a positive social life.

But I will never go to protest in the streets, nor I will take any political position in public.

It doesn't mean that I cannot be an observer and have my own analysis of the country and current situation.

But I do know that can understand only a very small part of the problem.

This is my own way to show respect to Thai people who have welcomed me, and to give them a good picture about foreigners as well. As I told above, if we want to be respected we should start first to be respectable.

Any country out of mine that I have visited, I have never got any trouble with local people.

I can hear and read so many complains from foreigners here that I often wonder why they stay in Thailand...

Why do they want to get more trouble by involving in Thai private matters?...

Cheers ;-)

I personally believe, as a host, I will treat my guests with respect and courtesy and try to make them feel like home.

As a host, I will interact with my guests and not treat them like slaves, I will listen to what my guests have to say and

always try to improve relations. As a host, inviting people in to my home I will NOT rob them, beat them or blame

them for what ever might go wrong in my home. On the other hand, I expect my guests to behave and take care

of my home as they would in their own home.

1- You might have accepted that. I haven't.

2 - If I have a duty to pay business tax and income tax, then I have a right to know for what.

3 - To be honest, I don't think many of the Thai politicians fully understand their own positions.

You recon a 22 year old student has more knowledge about his own country then a foreigner

that LIVES in a foreign country, works there, integrates and contributes to that society?

(BTW - I know this 82 year old Thai guy, pure Thai. Never been abroad or has much contact with

foreigners and he doesn't have a clue on any position of any side from any government at all)

4 - Anyone who askes for respect, does not deserve it. Anyone who deserves respect, does not need to ask for.

5 - Where ever we live, what ever game we play, we should follow the rules, not only in Thailand.

6 - This is the most stupid statement of all time, anywhere.

(Just because one doesn't like the cherry on the cake, he shouldn't have the cake?)

I have absolute no problem when foreigners discuss their views here on TV. "Share some of their points of view,

disagree with some others. Talking with other foreigners comparing different possibilities, WITHOUT avoiding straight

and strong positions.

I fully agree with you, if people have to become personal and abusive, even threatening and violent because of

some one else's view, then that is kids game. Played by old miserable kids who have nothing to do in any one's

story. Just like you, I am sure that most of people anywhere would not appreciate this kind of behaviour from some anyone.

PS: "..... avoiding straight and strong positions." Yeah, I know, had to do that with my wife too and she wasn't even Thai

This is a great argument for: Evil prevails when good men do nothing.

[JeffreyWitty]

To answer to OPs original question:

Because, like those who voted for Romney in the past USA elections, stupid people are allow to vote (or choose sides) also.

Edited December 11, 2013 by JeffreyWitty

[FiftyTwo]

It stays a fact that 80% of the reds never paid tax in their life (if you earn up to 150k baht per year you pay 0.0 tax) and the yellow pay 90% of all the tax in the whole country! so the none paying tax people in thailand can 100% decide what they do with the tax money and when it shows that the tax money is used the wrong way and used by corruption there is a severe problem that can not go on forever. When yinluck changed the salary per day from 250 to 300 baht (20% for 80% of the people!!) that is an economic disaster which is totally bad for the poor people. all prices have gone up more than the actually pay rise.

Everyone pays tax in Thailand.

7% VAT, 100% import duty, petrol is taxed, vehicles are taxed, land sales are taxed.

Just because Thailand collects most of it's tax in a different way to western countries, doesn't mean people don't pay tax.

[darren84310]

I personally think that, as foreigners being guest in this country, we shouldn't involve in national matters that we mostly do not understand.

1- We have accepted (for different personal - good - reasons) to have no domestic right.

2- Paying taxes and spending money here didn't change our blood. None of us can become Thai nor can "think Thai"

3- Even after 10 or 20 years here, we will not understand totally the positions of each side.

4- If we want Thai people to respect us, let's start to be respectable. Let's be out of these national matters concerning Thais only.

5- Whatever the government is or will be, if we want to live in Thailand we must follow the rules.

6- If we are not happy, so let's go back to our countries and be fine there ;-)

I am totally against the foreigners who are taking position for this color or against that one, blablabla.

This is kid game played by old kids who have nothing to do in Thai people stories.

I am sure that most of Thai people do not appreciate this kind of behavior from some farangs...

My wife is Thai.

I share some of her points of view, I disagree with some others. I talk with her and try to help her comparing different possibilities, avoiding straight and strong positions.

At the end of the day, I will always back her (and protect her) just because she is my wife, and also because she is bright and totally involve in a positive social life.

But I will never go to protest in the streets, nor I will take any political position in public.

It doesn't mean that I cannot be an observer and have my own analysis of the country and current situation.

But I do know that can understand only a very small part of the problem.

This is my own way to show respect to Thai people who have welcomed me, and to give them a good picture about foreigners as well. As I told above, if we want to be respected we should start first to be respectable.

Any country out of mine that I have visited, I have never got any trouble with local people.

I can hear and read so many complains from foreigners here that I often wonder why they stay in Thailand...

Why do they want to get more trouble by involving in Thai private matters?...

Cheers ;-)

This makes all the sense in the world. After 30+ years in USA, I can't begin to explain why people from the west coast behave differently from those who were raised on the east coast. So there's no way I'll ever understand most of the issues that exist between Thais. We're guests here. We can talk to our Thai friends about it. Share our opinions. Offer some advice and perspective. But best not to get involved on a deeper level.

Firstly... clberger33

I thought that in a democracy that everyone is entitled to air their opinions.

Secondly... the other comment

I had no idea that posting on TV was getting involved at a deeper level.

Thirdly...

Thais say that they want a democracy, so wouldn't it make sense for them to also take in the views from people who are from countries with a much greater level of democracy?

[Exsexyman]

i support suthep.

I can vote.

But Suthep doesn't want an election, he wants the power without the inconvenience of allowing people to vote. So in reality he has nothing but contempt for your support and your vote. I believe the term is 'useful idiot'!

[KOZMO]

Did someone forget to take medication today?

YA, He forgot to take his PROZAC today

[ianf]

It will not be a democratic election. It will be another stolen election - the organiser of which is a past master at these kind of events.