Kickstarter campaign to make Nazi Chic go out of style in Thailand

[7by7]

I given up repeating my points until such time as you actually address them. But I'm not holding my breath.

[sustento]

In respect of English eating habits, I'd be more worried about the spotted dick or toad in the hole than pol pot burgers

I do love spotted dick. I'm not sure I want a toad in my hole though.

[Kilgore Trout]

Putting words in my mouth again; but I understand that you're good at that.

I did not say that it would be horrible for Thai students to study European history; I simply asked why they should be forced to do so to satisfy your cultural imperialism.

No school system can educate all their pupils about everything. Asian history is far more relevant to Thais than European history; just as European history is more relevant to Europeans than Asian history.

In the UK, the compulsory history curriculum is almost entirely British history; it is only when history becomes a vocational choice that it expands to cover more global history.

I suspect that the same is true for the US, Canada, Australia etc.

Why do you demand that Thai should be forced to learn our history rather than their own?

Of course, if a Thai student chooses to study, for example, 20th century European history, good for them; and good for a western student who chooses to study Thai history.

Here is a novel idea; everyone study WORLD history!!

Not such a difficult concept to grasp.

[Kilgore Trout]

 

Are you for real? There is a HUGE difference between the two. We expect that behavior from a bunch of nazi idiots in the US; if you think there is a real problem then you are clueless. A very small minority of fools exercising their right to free speech which as I don't agree with what they say, I do believe they have a right to say it. That is what freedom is all about.

On the other hand here in Thailand you have nitwits who are using very powerful symbols of hatred and destruction to make cutesie shows and t-shirts and when told that it is extremely offensive they just giggle and say "I don't know."

You are comparing apples to oranges here.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Kilgore

Why is marching in a military formation, under the White Power banner, in full Nazi uniform in the United States at an "Anti Immigration rally "acceptable" in a country that lost 300,000 of it sons KIA fighting against the Nazi and other during WWII.

Thai youth wearing Nazi T-shirts in their country Thailand, a country that was not involved with fighting the Nazi in that war. is considered more of an affront to Falang's. As we are talking about a very small minority of Thai youth exercising their rights to free speech..Which they have the right to do in their own country and as you stated "that is what freedom is all about"

Are you for real? as my family members fought in Europe in WWII and I as a US Veteran, as such I have earned the right to criticize the Nazi movement in my home country. Your comparison of apples to oranges leave much to be desired, and your ethnocentric logic that it is OK for White Nazi in the US to march in full uniform and be considered just some crazies exercising their (rightful) right to freedom of expression.

That brown Thai's in their own country Thailand, do not have the same rights to freedom of expression, that their fashion statement is unacceptable to you a foreigner in their country!

I do differ with your opinion!

Cheers

As I stated before; of course they have a right to do what they want. But they also need to understand that they WILL be criticized for it; and they WILL be thought of as idiots and fools by the Western world as well as uneducated offensive morons.

However, this is unnacceptable to them. They are VERY sensitive to ANY criticizm and do not want to lose face in the global world.

You can't have your cake and eat it too as they say.

Now do you understand? People have the right to show their stupidity as much as they want but must be prepared to deal with the consequences. That is my point.

Btw, why do you feel the need to point out that Thais are brown? What a very odd racist statement to make

I see them as PEOPLE, not, as you stated "brown Thais." Very odd.

[Beetlejuice]

So what you are saying is we need is some final solution to this Nazi question.

Not a final solution in the way that you are suggesting, but by education, to make people who are ignorant (judging by your smart answer) of the facts like yourself, or perhaps those who believe that the Jews, the Russians, the Poles, the Chinese and others deserved what they got or it didn’t happen and to make them fully aware of what the Nazis stood for and still stand for today.

In other words, something like the Americans tried after the surrender of Germany, a sort of denazification scheme using education. Of course there are those who firmly believe in the Nazi ideologies, perhaps it`s in their blood? And to them Adolf Hitler is an icon, some sort of hero that trying to convince them otherwise would be a lost cause. These people I believe will always be around and it only takes such threads with these themes to bring them crawling out of the woodwork and display their true colours.

There are always going to be the haters, against one group or another, and I am sure that there are those who would be willing to be the executioners if anything similar to the Holocaust (if you believe it happened) started today. The Yugoslav Wars of the 1990s was a typical example of the repeat of history in Europe. So it`s something that is always there lurking about in the background. And as I said previous, how one perceives all this is according to what side of the fence people are standing on.

[Berkshire]

Putting words in my mouth again; but I understand that you're good at that.

I did not say that it would be horrible for Thai students to study European history; I simply asked why they should be forced to do so to satisfy your cultural imperialism.

No school system can educate all their pupils about everything. Asian history is far more relevant to Thais than European history; just as European history is more relevant to Europeans than Asian history.

In the UK, the compulsory history curriculum is almost entirely British history; it is only when history becomes a vocational choice that it expands to cover more global history.

I suspect that the same is true for the US, Canada, Australia etc.

Why do you demand that Thai should be forced to learn our history rather than their own?

Of course, if a Thai student chooses to study, for example, 20th century European history, good for them; and good for a western student who chooses to study Thai history.

Here is a novel idea; everyone study WORLD history!!

Not such a difficult concept to grasp.

Good idea. Let's start in the west. Yeah, like that would ever happen.

[Kilgore Trout]

Putting words in my mouth again; but I understand that you're good at that.

I did not say that it would be horrible for Thai students to study European history; I simply asked why they should be forced to do so to satisfy your cultural imperialism.

No school system can educate all their pupils about everything. Asian history is far more relevant to Thais than European history; just as European history is more relevant to Europeans than Asian history.

In the UK, the compulsory history curriculum is almost entirely British history; it is only when history becomes a vocational choice that it expands to cover more global history.

I suspect that the same is true for the US, Canada, Australia etc.

Why do you demand that Thai should be forced to learn our history rather than their own?

Of course, if a Thai student chooses to study, for example, 20th century European history, good for them; and good for a western student who chooses to study Thai history.

Here is a novel idea; everyone study WORLD history!!

Not such a difficult concept to grasp.

Good idea. Let's start in the west. Yeah, like that would ever happen.

I had world history in middle school; in high school I took a variety of world history classes including Asian history, European history etc.

I remember, we even went on a field trip to a Vietnamese Buddhist temple, studied the opium wars, French colonialism etc.

Soooo, don't really know what you are talking about, this was more than 20 years ago.

[thaibeachlovers]

Legal, yes. Desirable, no. But they'll do what they want in any case. I don't think it's so horrible for the Thai youth to be better educated on what those Hitler and Nazi symbols actually refer to and I find it really bizarre that people here would be so strongly opposed to BASIC relief of mass IGNORANCE! It's weird, really. What are you afraid of here? Does it hurt you if Thai youth are better informed on such matters? Do you enjoy the innocent charm of such mass ignorance? I doubt you find that charming in your home country and yes mass ignorance knows no borders. Why charming here? Double standard much.

I had nothing in school about Hitler and the Nazis, and I grew up in a country that fought against Germany, so I really fail to understand why anyone would suggest adding that subject to the Thai curriculum. After all, they simply DON'T CARE about it.

[thaibeachlovers]

Legal, yes. Desirable, no. But they'll do what they want in any case. I don't think it's so horrible for the Thai youth to be better educated on what those Hitler and Nazi symbols actually refer to and I find it really bizarre that people here would be so strongly opposed to BASIC relief of mass IGNORANCE! It's weird, really. What are you afraid of here? Does it hurt you if Thai youth are better informed on such matters? Do you enjoy the innocent charm of such mass ignorance? I doubt you find that charming in your home country and yes mass ignorance knows no borders. Why charming here? Double standard much.

I had nothing in school about Hitler and the Nazis, and I grew up in a country that fought against Germany, so I really fail to understand why anyone would suggest adding that subject to the Thai curriculum. After all, they simply DON'T CARE about it.

[Kilgore Trout]

Legal, yes. Desirable, no. But they'll do what they want in any case. I don't think it's so horrible for the Thai youth to be better educated on what those Hitler and Nazi symbols actually refer to and I find it really bizarre that people here would be so strongly opposed to BASIC relief of mass IGNORANCE! It's weird, really. What are you afraid of here? Does it hurt you if Thai youth are better informed on such matters? Do you enjoy the innocent charm of such mass ignorance? I doubt you find that charming in your home country and yes mass ignorance knows no borders. Why charming here? Double standard much.

I had nothing in school about Hitler and the Nazis, and I grew up in a country that fought against Germany, so I really fail to understand why anyone would suggest adding that subject to the Thai curriculum. After all, they simply DON'T CARE about it.

So you are saying that a school's curriculum should ignore any subject that students don't care about?

I gues you could say goodbye to math, science, language, literature and so on. Students need a good well rounded education. most kids don't understand this until they get older. This is why trained educators write school curriculum.

I heard there will be a post of the year, yours might win the award for most ridiculous post of the year. Gee whiz.....

[kikoman]

Kilgore,

Your logic is flawed, that it is the rights of Westerners to wear Nazi uniforms, and Thai's do not have that right in their own country, that you as a foreigner see their fashion statement as unacceptable to you. I would greatly consider that a racist statement, Thai's do not have the same rights as Westerns, you do not view your statement as preferential treatment to non- Thai's that demonstrate they embrace the philosophy of Nazi racial separation as the master race..

You said it I did not,

You questioned my opinion that I have a right to have, whether it is unacceptable to you is no concern of mine, Whether you sell Pol Pot Burgers in the UK is well within your rights to do so!

Good Luck on your business venture!

[Kilgore Trout]

Kilgore,

Your logic is flawed, that it is the rights of Westerners to wear Nazi uniforms, and Thai's do not have that right in their own country, that you as a foreigner see their fashion statement as unacceptable to you. I would greatly consider that a racist statement, Thai's do not have the same rights as Westerns, you do not view your statement as preferential treatment to non- Thai's that demonstrate they embrace the philosophy of Nazi racial separation as the master race..

You said it I did not,

You questioned my opinion that I have a right to have, whether it is unacceptable to you is no concern of mine, Whether you sell Pol Pot Burgers in the UK is well within your rights to do so!

Good Luck on your business venture!

Please show me where I said that Thais don't have the right to do anything? I'm sure you know how to use the quote function.

Again, as I can see that you are a slow reader, where did I say that?

Fact is, I did not say that at all.

For the third time; Anyone, anywhere has the right to do anything they want as long as they accept the consequences.

The consequences in this case is that most people in the world will look down on them and see them as idiots.

How can I make that more clear to you?

I'm amazed how you could read that into my posts. I guess it just reflects on your ability (or inability in this case)to read, think and respond clearly and reasonably.

[thaibeachlovers]

Legal, yes. Desirable, no. But they'll do what they want in any case. I don't think it's so horrible for the Thai youth to be better educated on what those Hitler and Nazi symbols actually refer to and I find it really bizarre that people here would be so strongly opposed to BASIC relief of mass IGNORANCE! It's weird, really. What are you afraid of here? Does it hurt you if Thai youth are better informed on such matters? Do you enjoy the innocent charm of such mass ignorance? I doubt you find that charming in your home country and yes mass ignorance knows no borders. Why charming here? Double standard much.

I had nothing in school about Hitler and the Nazis, and I grew up in a country that fought against Germany, so I really fail to understand why anyone would suggest adding that subject to the Thai curriculum. After all, they simply DON'T CARE about it.

So you are saying that a school's curriculum should ignore any subject that students don't care about?

I gues you could say goodbye to math, science, language, literature and so on. Students need a good well rounded education. most kids don't understand this until they get older. This is why trained educators write school curriculum.

I heard there will be a post of the year, yours might win the award for most ridiculous post of the year. Gee whiz.....

Of course not.

The Thai PEOPLE don't care about the Nazis. It had nothing to do with them at the time and would be as interesting to them now as ancient Rome.

[Kilgore Trout]

Legal, yes. Desirable, no. But they'll do what they want in any case. I don't think it's so horrible for the Thai youth to be better educated on what those Hitler and Nazi symbols actually refer to and I find it really bizarre that people here would be so strongly opposed to BASIC relief of mass IGNORANCE! It's weird, really. What are you afraid of here? Does it hurt you if Thai youth are better informed on such matters? Do you enjoy the innocent charm of such mass ignorance? I doubt you find that charming in your home country and yes mass ignorance knows no borders. Why charming here? Double standard much.

I had nothing in school about Hitler and the Nazis, and I grew up in a country that fought against Germany, so I really fail to understand why anyone would suggest adding that subject to the Thai curriculum. After all, they simply DON'T CARE about it.

So you are saying that a school's curriculum should ignore any subject that students don't care about?

I gues you could say goodbye to math, science, language, literature and so on. Students need a good well rounded education. most kids don't understand this until they get older. This is why trained educators write school curriculum.

I heard there will be a post of the year, yours might win the award for most ridiculous post of the year. Gee whiz.....

Of course not.

The Thai PEOPLE don't care about the Nazis. It had nothing to do with them at the time and would be as interesting to them now as ancient Rome.

what a silly thing to say, people shouldn't learn history if it has nothing to do with them. Your hubris and ignorance truly amaze me.

By the way, who gave you the right to speak for all Thai people? I know plenty of Thai people who ARE quite interested in global history and important world events.

Silly, silly, silly.

[thaibeachlovers]

I had nothing in school about Hitler and the Nazis, and I grew up in a country that fought against Germany, so I really fail to understand why anyone would suggest adding that subject to the Thai curriculum. After all, they simply DON'T CARE about it.

So you are saying that a school's curriculum should ignore any subject that students don't care about?

I gues you could say goodbye to math, science, language, literature and so on. Students need a good well rounded education. most kids don't understand this until they get older. This is why trained educators write school curriculum.

I heard there will be a post of the year, yours might win the award for most ridiculous post of the year. Gee whiz.....

Of course not.

The Thai PEOPLE don't care about the Nazis. It had nothing to do with them at the time and would be as interesting to them now as ancient Rome.

what a silly thing to say, people shouldn't learn history if it has nothing to do with them. Your hubris and ignorance truly amaze me.

By the way, who gave you the right to speak for all Thai people? I know plenty of Thai people who ARE quite interested in global history and important world events.

Silly, silly, silly.

Let them all learn Latin like I had to. That turned out to be really really useful .

[thaibeachlovers]

Let them all learn Latin like I had to. That turned out to be really, really useful, LOL.

Edited December 13, 2013 by thaibeachlovers

[7by7]

Putting words in my mouth again; but I understand that you're good at that.

I did not say that it would be horrible for Thai students to study European history; I simply asked why they should be forced to do so to satisfy your cultural imperialism.

No school system can educate all their pupils about everything. Asian history is far more relevant to Thais than European history; just as European history is more relevant to Europeans than Asian history.

In the UK, the compulsory history curriculum is almost entirely British history; it is only when history becomes a vocational choice that it expands to cover more global history.

I suspect that the same is true for the US, Canada, Australia etc.

Why do you demand that Thai should be forced to learn our history rather than their own?

Of course, if a Thai student chooses to study, for example, 20th century European history, good for them; and good for a western student who chooses to study Thai history.

Here is a novel idea; everyone study WORLD history!!

Not such a difficult concept to grasp.

Do you read posts before you comment on them?

You seem to have missed this bit "No school system can educate all their pupils about everything."

How long do you expect people to stay in school for in order to study every aspect of world history? Any such curriculum would have to be selective; as it is now.

I had world history in middle school; in high school I took a variety of world history classes including Asian history, European history etc.

I remember, we even went on a field trip to a Vietnamese Buddhist temple, studied the opium wars, French colonialism etc.

A variety of world history classes; not everything. Such a thing would have been impossible unless you studied nothing else for your entire school career!. What was missed, I wonder.

[In Search of Space]

Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand is not about freedom and lack of political correctness as the extremist Thai-ier than thous delusionally believe. There is severe political correctness enforced in Thailand but just about DIFFERENT things.

You guys are making it sound like this Nazi Chic thing is all over Thailand. I've never seen it! Yes, I'm aware about these incidences in the schools and KFC, and t-shirts, etc., etc., but I haven't personally seen it. Honest. In 10+ years. But if we keep talking about it, perhaps some of these kids may start getting ideas.

But ok, JT, so what is Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand supposed to be about?

Oh man, I see it almost daily, certainly weekly. Just yesterday I was in a police supply store and their was a WWII German helmet with the symbol of the SS, a Swastika and the 3rd Reich eagle on it sitting on the counter. I asked about it and the staff said it was left by a Thai customer. Presumably a Thai policeman.

At any motorcycle meet here you will see all manner of Nazi shirts, stickers, patches and helmets. In the last couple months I have seen more than one Thai wearing shirts with Swastikas on them, and not the Buddhist kind.

I see quite a few mainly girls but some boys wearing swastika t-shirts (NAZI style, not chinese or other), it is probably seen as fashion rather than any political statement, but I do feel a little sad that they don't quite understand what it means, especially in the context of the millions who were murdered by Hitler and his henchmen together with all of the soldiers and civillians who died during WWII.

[Jingthing]

In Pattaya, it's by far mostly young males I see with the Nazi fashionista stuff.

Be clear, it's not like I see them as actually knowing what they are representing.

Sometimes it's even darkly funny, such as seeing a dark skinned Thai with a Hitler/Swastika shirt with large type: WHITE POWER.

A little education wouldn't hurt.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Jingthing

[kikoman]

what a silly thing to say, people shouldn't learn history if it has nothing to do with them. Your hubris and ignorance truly amaze me.

By the way, who gave you the right to speak for all Thai people? I know plenty of Thai people who ARE quite interested in global history and important world events.

Silly, silly, silly.

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Hey Trout

I would like to ask you the same question

[thaibeachlovers]

what a silly thing to say, people shouldn't learn history if it has nothing to do with them. Your hubris and ignorance truly amaze me.

By the way, who gave you the right to speak for all Thai people? I know plenty of Thai people who ARE quite interested in global history and important world events.

Silly, silly, silly.

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Hey Trout

I would like to ask you the same question

I learned all about English history as a pupil, and nothing about the country I was living in.

It's really, really helped me in life knowing who was king of England in the middle ages, NOT.

[paz]

Of course not.

The Thai PEOPLE don't care about the Nazis. It had nothing to do with them at the time and would be as interesting to them now as ancient Rome.

Beside that is not even true, Thailand had to do with Nazi and their Japanese allies.

However, if if they didn't that's not a reason to adopt Nazi emblemas and so. Standing agaist Nazi ideaology and crimes is an universal and absolute value.

[HeavyDrinker]

Nice to see the outraged 'how dare she 'dictate to the Thais in their country'' gang are out in full force, utterly missing the point.

The point is (ignoring the clumsy off-topic efforts at interpreting history) that she is offended by the use of a symbol which has represented one of the evillest regimes the planet has ever seen as a fashion icon by people utterly ignorant as to what it represents.

[bundoi]

Nazism is dead, why blow off all this steam about a few teenagers.

What concerns me more is, for example, being in a chichi cafe a few weeks ago with oh-so-liberal farangs who are completely unaware that people are still dying (I mean today) because of "allied" bombs in "indochina" in the carpet-bombing in the secret wars. The former "allies" dropped more bombs on Asian farmers than they ever did on ole Adolf.

I'd love some of these transatlantlic NGO/"foundations" s to redress the evils their governments have done comparatively recently before they worry about ancient Nazi history.

No disrespect to the very tiny minority of NGOs that may be doing something worthwhile.

[Kilgore Trout]

what a silly thing to say, people shouldn't learn history if it has nothing to do with them. Your hubris and ignorance truly amaze me.

By the way, who gave you the right to speak for all Thai people? I know plenty of Thai people who ARE quite interested in global history and important world events.

Silly, silly, silly.

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Hey Trout

I would like to ask you the same question

Weak response, where is the quote? Back up what you say or keep quiet

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[paz]

Nazism is dead, why blow off all this steam about a few teenagers.

Because it's obscene to let people wear Nazi and think it's cool

What concerns me more is, for example, being in a chichi cafe a few weeks ago with oh-so-liberal farangs who are completely unaware that people are still dying (I mean today) because of "allied" bombs in "indochina" in the carpet-bombing in the secret wars. The former "allies" dropped more bombs on Asian farmers than they ever did on ole Adolf.

I'd love some of these transatlantlic NGO/"foundations" s to redress the evils their governments have done comparatively recently before they worry about ancient Nazi history.

No disrespect to the very tiny minority of NGOs that may be doing something worthwhile.

Maybe. Or maybe not. Either way irrelevant to this topic.

[7by7]

Nice to see the outraged 'how dare she 'dictate to the Thais in their country'' gang are out in full force, utterly missing the point.

The point is (ignoring the clumsy off-topic efforts at interpreting history) that she is offended by the use of a symbol which has represented one of the evillest regimes the planet has ever seen as a fashion icon by people utterly ignorant as to what it represents.

So why has she picked on Thailand now when Nazi Chic has been a fashion in the west for over 30 years?

[paz]

So why has she picked on Thailand now when Nazi Chic has been a fashion in the west for over 30 years?

Where exactly it has been a fashion and allowed ?

[7by7]

I repeat ;

Nazi chic is not new, and certainly not confined to Thailand and other Asian countries.

Nazi Chic

Its use began in the mid-seventies with the emergence of the punk movement in London: the Sex Pistols' first television appearance occurred with a person of their entourage wearing a swastika. Nazi chic was later used in the fashion industry in various occasions.

[kikoman]

what a silly thing to say, people shouldn't learn history if it has nothing to do with them. Your hubris and ignorance truly amaze me.

By the way, who gave you the right to speak for all Thai people? I know plenty of Thai people who ARE quite interested in global history and important world events.

Silly, silly, silly.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey Trout

I would like to ask you the same question

Weak response, where is the quote? Back up what you say or keep quiet

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile ap

Once again and listen closely, go back to post #53 and read, do you read anything prior to responding to it?

You stated (in part) "There is a HUGE difference between the two" "We expect that behavior from a bunch of nazi idiots in the US" "A very small minority of fools exercising their right to free speech" "I do believe they have a right to say it. That is what freedom is all about"

"On the other hand here in Thailand you have nitwits who are using a very powerful symbol;s of hatred and destruction to make cutesie shows and T-shirts and when told that is extremely offensive they just giggle and say"I don't know".

In your defense of 75-100 US Nazi's marching under the White Power flag, in full Nazi uniform in a Political demonstration at the State Capital in Phoenix Arizona, where only a bunch of fools exercising their right to "Free Speech" , Stating "That is what freedom is all about."

Do I still have your attention? Then you stated

"On the other hand here in Thailand you have nitwits who are using very powerful symbols of hatred and destruction to make cutesie shows and t-shirts" "You are comparing apples to oranges here"

You completely failed to state they "Where a bunch of nitwits exercising their freedom of speech" as you did in defense of the US Nazi's.

In your flawed logic, explain why there is a HUGE difference to what the Thai's do on tee-shirts and cutesie shows (whatever that is) that is more offensive then Nazi marching at a political rally in full uniform.

Then in your infinite knowledge you erroneously state "If you think there is a real problem then you are clueless" which is one of the most "clueless" statements I ever heard.

Your statement documents You are not from the states and are completely clueless about US modern day problems, Look up on the internet US Nazi party and you-tube about filmed history of the extent of the Nazi presents in the US.

I will not ask you to quote what you posted to because it is not within your ability to do. If possible put your brain in gear, before you put your mouth in motion! (or be quiet)

Cheers

Edited December 13, 2013 by kikoman