Kickstarter campaign to make Nazi Chic go out of style in Thailand

[davejonesbkk]

Just stumbled upon this on Kickstarter, pretty funny, cant see her getting $30k tho

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/331712380/hitler-is-neither-a-superhero-nor-a-mascot?ref=home_location

[thailandbeachisland]

Ridiculous, Let them their freedom to think, this is so hard to find anywhere in the world now !

[mmh8]

Could always alter history curriculum illustrating countries role in great wars.

[kikoman]

I believe your quest is much more needed in the US and Europe where Hitler did in fact happen, and the great following his teaching have in the White Power movement in the US and Neo-Nazi movement in Europe.

Thailand youth did not live under the destruction the Nazi's visited on the west, They see it more as an expression of their freedom to do so. What you have on that video have nothing to do with the philosophy of the Nazi movement as its counterparts in the West has. I think your efforts as changing the rights of freedom of expression are more in tuned to Nazism than the Thai youth rights to freedom of expression.

Cheers

[Kilgore Trout]

I believe your quest is much more needed in the US and Europe where Hitler did in fact happen, and the great following his teaching have in the White Power movement in the US and Neo-Nazi movement in Europe.

Thailand youth did not live under the destruction the Nazi's visited on the west, They see it more as an expression of their freedom to do so. What you have on that video have nothing to do with the philosophy of the Nazi movement as its counterparts in the West has. I think your efforts as changing the rights of freedom of expression are more in tuned to Nazism than the Thai youth rights to freedom of expression.

Cheers

Glad you feel that way. I'm sure then, that you would back my idea for "Pol Pots Burgers" in England. Our motto would be "burgers with a 1/4 pound of pure beef straight from the killing fields."

If Cambodians or others have a problem with it, you will tell them for me to go get stuffed because it's an expression of my freedom to do so, right???? I never lived under the destruction the Khmer Rouge visited on Cambodia so it has nothing to do with Pol Pots philosophy, therefore I can offend whomever I want. Glad you feel that way.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Kilgore Trout

[Berkshire]

I believe your quest is much more needed in the US and Europe where Hitler did in fact happen, and the great following his teaching have in the White Power movement in the US and Neo-Nazi movement in Europe.

Thailand youth did not live under the destruction the Nazi's visited on the west, They see it more as an expression of their freedom to do so. What you have on that video have nothing to do with the philosophy of the Nazi movement as its counterparts in the West has. I think your efforts as changing the rights of freedom of expression are more in tuned to Nazism than the Thai youth rights to freedom of expression.

Cheers

Good points.

Another point is that even in the west, Nazi symbolism today doesn't even register as being a symbol of Nazi Germany. It's been hijacked by Neo-Nazis, racist skinheads, white supremacists, and other equally disturbed individuals (read Charles Manson). That's where the outrage is. Nothing positive is coming from these people who display the Nazi image in the west--it truly is offensive.

In Asia, however, they don't have racist skinheads marching around preaching hate. That's really why the outrage is much less pronounced. Westerners are asking Asians to be as offended about something that happened in Europe a long time ago, when in fact, the outrage is really about what's happening present day and it really has nothing to do with Nazi Germany.

[kikoman]

Kilgore Trout

Glad you feel that way. I'm sure then, that you would back my idea for "Pol Pots Burgers" in England. Our motto would be "burgers with a 1/4 pound of pure beef straight from the killing fields."

What happens in England is not my concern, you sell what you want, if it sells great.

But when the OP posted to the issue, I responded with my opinion!

As the last time I was in the states there was a Nazi demonstration marching under a White Power flag in full Nazi uniform, protesting against "Illegal Immigration" in the US on the steps of the state capital in Phoenix Arizona under the protection of the Phoenix Police Department. There was between 75 to 100 Nazi uniformed demonstrators, not a mere drop in the bucket.

Nothing on the OP's video came close to the real danger of Western rising Nazism,. or anything relating to that issue here in Thailand!

I will let you worry about "Pol Pot Burgers" and the English eating and business habits and I will worry about my concern of Nazism flourishing in my home country.

Cheers

[NomadJoe]

Ridiculous, Let them their freedom to think, this is so hard to find anywhere in the world now !

The problem is they aren't thinking. None of them proscribe to Nazi doctrine like the people who wear these symbols in the west do.

Another point is that even in the west, Nazi symbolism today doesn't even register as being a symbol of Nazi Germany. <snip>

I am aghast that an adult raised in a western culture can make a statement like that. The two (neo-Nazism and Nazi Germany) are intimately connected.

"Neo-Nazism consists of post-World War II social or political movements seeking to revive Nazism.[1][2][3][4] The term neo-Nazism can also refer to the ideology of these movements.[5][6]

Neo-Nazism borrows elements from Nazi doctrine, including militant nationalism, racism, xenophobia, homophobia, and antisemitism. Holocaust denial is a common feature, as is incorporation of Nazi symbols and admiration of Adolf Hitler. It is related to the white nationalist and white power skinhead movements in many countries.

Neo-Nazi activity appears to be a global phenomenon, with organized representation in many countries, as well as international networks. Some European and Latin American countries have laws prohibiting the expression of pro-Nazi, racist, anti-Semitic or anti-homosexual views. Many Nazi-related symbols are banned in European countries in an effort to curtail neo-Nazism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neo-Nazism

Edited December 12, 2013 by NomadJoe

[Berkshire]

Another point is that even in the west, Nazi symbolism today doesn't even register as being a symbol of Nazi Germany.

I am aghast that an adult raised in a western culture can make a statement like that. The two (neo-Nazism and Nazi Germany) are intimately connected.

You really shouldn't be taking my comments out of context like that. Rather dishonest and disingenuous of you. I went on to explain that most people in the west don't necessarily see a swastika as a symbol of the Third Reich, but more a symbol of hate and intolerance. When swastikas are being painted on a Jewish Synagogue or on the home of an African-American family in the US, it's about hate and intolerance.

I doubt very much if these disenfranchised racists know the detailed history of how the Nazis came to power in Germany during the 30's, nor do they care. All they can agree on is that Nazi symbolism displayed in the west promotes hate of all non-whites and non-Christians. So let's try not to be so overly simplistic and ignorant of what's really going on in the real world.

[NomadJoe]

But when the OP posted to the issue, I responded with my opinion!

And he responded with his. What is your point? That people can not disagree with you?

As the last time I was in the states there was a Nazi demonstration marching under a White Power flag in full Nazi uniform, protesting against "Illegal Immigration" in the US on the steps of the state capital in Phoenix Arizona under the protection of the Phoenix Police Department. There was between 75 to 100 Nazi uniformed demonstrators, not a mere drop in the bucket.

Nothing on the OP's video came close to the real danger of Western rising Nazism,. or anything relating to that issue here in Thailand!

The fact that the best Neo-Nazi protesters can do in Phoenix is raise 75-100 people is comforting, especially considering how common racism is in the states. Less than a drop in the bucket.

Having said that, I am proud to be from a country where anyone is allowed to peacefully and lawfully gather to express any view they wish, even one as grotesque as Neo-Nazism.

Although the symbols are physically the same, they are used differently here than in the west. The problem here is ignorance coupled with a need to express provocative and disruptive imagery, but not the ideology that image represents. In the west it is displayed to promote the ideology as well, which I agree, is obviously a far more concerning problem.

There is a 3rd very small group of people that can me mentioned. The "hybrids". The expats wearing the WW2 SS helmets on motorbikes. I believe these to be people who support Neo-Nazi ideology but exploit the ignorance of this society in order to be able to still "fit in" while flaunting their hate imagery openly.

[NomadJoe]

Another point is that even in the west, Nazi symbolism today doesn't even register as being a symbol of Nazi Germany.

I am aghast that an adult raised in a western culture can make a statement like that. The two (neo-Nazism and Nazi Germany) are intimately connected.

You really shouldn't be taking my comments out of context like that. Rather dishonest and disingenuous of you. I went on to explain that most people in the west don't necessarily see a swastika as a symbol of the Third Reich, but more a symbol of hate and intolerance. When swastikas are being painted on a Jewish Synagogue or on the home of an African-American family in the US, it's about hate and intolerance.

I doubt very much if these disenfranchised racists know the detailed history of how the Nazis came to power in Germany during the 30's, nor do they care. All they can agree on is that Nazi symbolism displayed in the west promotes hate of all non-whites and non-Christians. So let's try not to be so overly simplistic and ignorant of what's really going on in the real world.

If you believe this then you know nothing about Neo-Nazi's. They study Hitler, and follow his ideology, some partially and some primarily. They rely heavily on history to support their views, at least versions of history.

[Prbkk]

In respect of English eating habits, I'd be more worried about the spotted dick or toad in the hole than pol pot burgers

[Jingthing]

Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand is not about freedom and lack of political correctness as the extremist Thai-ier than thous delusionally believe. There is severe political correctness enforced in Thailand but just about DIFFERENT things.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[Berkshire]

You really shouldn't be taking my comments out of context like that. Rather dishonest and disingenuous of you. I went on to explain that most people in the west don't necessarily see a swastika as a symbol of the Third Reich, but more a symbol of hate and intolerance. When swastikas are being painted on a Jewish Synagogue or on the home of an African-American family in the US, it's about hate and intolerance.

I doubt very much if these disenfranchised racists know the detailed history of how the Nazis came to power in Germany during the 30's, nor do they care. All they can agree on is that Nazi symbolism displayed in the west promotes hate of all non-whites and non-Christians. So let's try not to be so overly simplistic and ignorant of what's really going on in the real world.

If you believe this then you know nothing about Neo-Nazi's. They study Hitler, and follow his ideology, some partially and some primarily. They rely heavily on history to support their views, at least versions of history.

Firstly, I think you and I are on the same page with regards to Nazi symbolism. I despise all that it represents. But I'm sure you're aware that the racist skinheads, Aryan Nation, KKK, and all manner of racist nutballs throughout the world use the swastika as their symbol of hatred. I doubt very much all these guys are expert historians on Nazi Germany.

What I'm trying to point out is that the outrage that we may feel as westerners may not be shared in Asia. Why? Because in the west, Nazi symbolism represents the evils of the Holocaust AND how it's being used today to propagate hate. So even if Asians are being educated on the former, they haven't fully experienced the latter in the present day. Nor will they....thankfully! (at least I hope) So calling Thais and Asians stupid and ignorant is not helping. That's my point.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Berkshire

[FiftyTwo]

What I'm trying to point out is that the outrage that we may feel as westerners may not be shared in Asia. Why? Because in the west, Nazi symbolism represents the evils of the Holocaust AND how it's being used today to propagate hate. So even if Asians are being educated on the former, they haven't fully experienced the latter in the present day. Nor will they....thankfully! (at least I hope) So calling Thais and Asians stupid and ignorant is not helping. That's my point.

Bit of a generalisation there.

I'm from the west,

don't feel outrage about the Nazis or what they did.

don't feel outrage about the Romans or what they did either.

not much bothered by the Inquisition ..... or Genghis Kahn.

am a bit outraged about Americans killing Muslims, but that's an ongoing situation.

It's history, in the past, forgive and forget.

Let's face it the Thai (sacred heart) girls dressed up in Nazi uniforms looked pretty good (to most of us).

Edited December 12, 2013 by FiftyTwo

[Berkshire]

Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand is not about freedom and lack of political correctness as the extremist Thai-ier than thous delusionally believe. There is severe political correctness enforced in Thailand but just about DIFFERENT things.

You guys are making it sound like this Nazi Chic thing is all over Thailand. I've never seen it! Yes, I'm aware about these incidences in the schools and KFC, and t-shirts, etc., etc., but I haven't personally seen it. Honest. In 10+ years. But if we keep talking about it, perhaps some of these kids may start getting ideas.

But ok, JT, so what is Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand supposed to be about?

[Jingthing]

Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand is not about freedom and lack of political correctness as the extremist Thai-ier than thous delusionally believe. There is severe political correctness enforced in Thailand but just about DIFFERENT things.

You guys are making it sound like this Nazi Chic thing is all over Thailand. I've never seen it! Yes, I'm aware about these incidences in the schools and KFC, and t-shirts, etc., etc., but I haven't personally seen it. Honest. In 10+ years. But if we keep talking about it, perhaps some of these kids may start getting ideas.

But ok, JT, so what is Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand supposed to be about?

You've never seen it? OK. I believe you. Where I live, I see it quite often and yes largely among the young people, so the education target makes sense.

Not going to even bother even answering why it is wrong. I consider that a baiting question.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Jingthing

[rgs2001uk]

Please go home you stupid woman, head back to your PC paradise.

&lt;deleted&gt; cant she see the parallels, she wants to behave in the same manner as those she says offend her.

The Facist Nazi fashion police, you really couldnt make this up.

[Berkshire]

Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand is not about freedom and lack of political correctness as the extremist Thai-ier than thous delusionally believe. There is severe political correctness enforced in Thailand but just about DIFFERENT things.

You guys are making it sound like this Nazi Chic thing is all over Thailand. I've never seen it! Yes, I'm aware about these incidences in the schools and KFC, and t-shirts, etc., etc., but I haven't personally seen it. Honest. In 10+ years. But if we keep talking about it, perhaps some of these kids may start getting ideas.

But ok, JT, so what is Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand supposed to be about?

You've never seen it? OK. I believe you. Where I live, I see it quite often and yes largely among the young people, so the education target makes sense.

Not going to even bother even answering why it is wrong. I consider that a baiting question.

Baiting question? Your statement said that it wasn't "about freedom and lack of political correctness." So what's it about? It just seemed like you never finished your statement. Nevermind, no big.

[NomadJoe]

Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand is not about freedom and lack of political correctness as the extremist Thai-ier than thous delusionally believe. There is severe political correctness enforced in Thailand but just about DIFFERENT things.

You guys are making it sound like this Nazi Chic thing is all over Thailand. I've never seen it! Yes, I'm aware about these incidences in the schools and KFC, and t-shirts, etc., etc., but I haven't personally seen it. Honest. In 10+ years. But if we keep talking about it, perhaps some of these kids may start getting ideas.

But ok, JT, so what is Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand supposed to be about?

Oh man, I see it almost daily, certainly weekly. Just yesterday I was in a police supply store and their was a WWII German helmet with the symbol of the SS, a Swastika and the 3rd Reich eagle on it sitting on the counter. I asked about it and the staff said it was left by a Thai customer. Presumably a Thai policeman.

At any motorcycle meet here you will see all manner of Nazi shirts, stickers, patches and helmets. In the last couple months I have seen more than one Thai wearing shirts with Swastikas on them, and not the Buddhist kind.

[impulse]

Ever since I saw this big burly Asian biker guy wearing a beautiful, black leather jacket, I just laugh off even the most despicable designs.

On the back: TAMPAX.

Beautifully embroidered in pink.

I figured he's not necessarily wearing the logo to try to convey a message. To each his own.

[Jingthing]

Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand is not about freedom and lack of political correctness as the extremist Thai-ier than thous delusionally believe. There is severe political correctness enforced in Thailand but just about DIFFERENT things.

You guys are making it sound like this Nazi Chic thing is all over Thailand. I've never seen it! Yes, I'm aware about these incidences in the schools and KFC, and t-shirts, etc., etc., but I haven't personally seen it. Honest. In 10+ years. But if we keep talking about it, perhaps some of these kids may start getting ideas.

But ok, JT, so what is Hitler as a fashion statement in Thailand supposed to be about?

Oh man, I see it almost daily, certainly weekly. Just yesterday I was in a police supply store and their was a WWII German helmet with the symbol of the SS, a Swastika and the 3rd Reich eagle on it sitting on the counter. I asked about it and the staff said it was left by a Thai customer. Presumably a Thai policeman.

At any motorcycle meet here you will see all manner of Nazi shirts, stickers, patches and helmets. In the last couple months I have seen more than one Thai wearing shirts with Swastikas on them, and not the Buddhist kind.

Maybe he needs to see an eye doc and/or doesn't get out much? In any case, yes, it would be surprising to me for anyone who has lived long term in Thailand to have never seen this. But if he says so, OK, whatever ...

[Beetlejuice]

I don`t believe that the displaying of Nazi regalia in the United States, Britain and many other European countries with the exception of Germany is illegal. Also the so-called neo Nazis are still flourishing in many Western countries, then we have the right wing extremists such as, David Puke, Nick Griffin and many other cranks that openly preach the Nazi principle in the West and many Nazi fanatical groups that are using the Internet as a resource to spread the word and their warped opinions to the masses worldwide, plus countless books sold openly in bookshops and online written by neo Nazis in order to spread the word, yet, hardly anyone of prominence seems to be opposing them. Western Governments seem more interested in eliminating porn sites from the web and those created by the extremists are considered low on the agenda of priorities.

So why should Thailand not follow suit? Or should be rather; practice what we preach and first set their own houses in order before trying to install into the Thai minds what is acceptable and what is not.

Having a Jewish mother (and proud) and having lost many relatives during the Holocaust I obviously loath and detest the Nazis in whatever shape and form that appear in, would love to see them eradicated from the face of the Earth, would oppose these groups whenever possible because the fact is that if Germany would have won the war I wouldn’t be here now and it upsets and grieves me to see this sort of crap happening in Thailand. But the one thing I am not and that’s a hypocrite and believe that the first port of call for people like this Lindsay Elef should be the home front and not try to tell others to be good boys and girls and not to do what we do and please play some other sorts of games.

And as for the Thai girl students dressed in Nazi uniform, I would pay handsomely for an hour with one of those, providing she kept her jack boots on of course.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[rgs2001uk]

Why do we never hear of people being up in arms over the left wing/commie t-shirts worn and for sale here.

Images of Che and Mao abound, no one complains.

Lets see if I have these figures correct, Hitler/Nazis lets say 15 million, Uncle Joe what 20 million, Mao 70 million?

[7by7]

Nazi chic is not new, and certainly not confined to Thailand and other Asian countries.

Nazi Chic

Its use began in the mid-seventies with the emergence of the punk movement in London: the Sex Pistols' first television appearance occurred with a person of their entourage wearing a swastika. Nazi chic was later used in the fashion industry in various occasions.

I guess the big difference is that in Europe, North America, Australasia people's main aim is to shock; whereas in Asia, where the history of Nazism is not taught to such an extent in schools, people view it as just another fashion. Like wearing communist symbols as rgs2001uk points out.

Beetlejuice is correct, with the exception of Germany, it is not illegal anywhere in EU. Indeed attempts to ban Nazi symbols, the swastika in particular, in the EU have been unsuccessful due to the swastika's ancient religious symbolism.

Attempts to ban (the swastika) in the European Union

The European Union's Executive Commission proposed a European Union-wide anti-racism law in 2001, but European Union states failed to agree on the balance between prohibiting racism and freedom of expression. An attempt to ban the swastika across the EU in early 2005 failed after objections from the British Government and others. In early 2007, while Germany held the European Union presidency, Berlin proposed that the European Union should follow German Criminal Law and criminalize the denial of the Holocaust and the display of Nazi symbols including the swastika, which is based on the Ban on the Symbols of Unconstitutional Organisations Act. This led to an opposition campaign by Hindu groups across Europe against a ban on the swastika. They pointed out that the swastika has been around for 5,000 years as a symbol of peace. The proposal to ban the swastika was dropped by Berlin from the proposed European Union wide anti-racism laws on January 29, 2007.

Members, from all sides of this argument, may find the following of interest. Particularly as many may have seen the swastika displayed in Thai temples; although the film concentrates on it's Hindu use and meaning.

Edited December 12, 2013 by 7by7

[NomadJoe]

Please go home you stupid woman, head back to your PC paradise.

&lt;deleted&gt; cant she see the parallels, she wants to behave in the same manner as those she says offend her.

The Facist Nazi fashion police, you really couldnt make this up.

Did you even read it? She is trying to educate and get people talking about it so people can make educated decisions about it. That is the opposite of Hitler and Nazi Germany. If people want to wear it because they support killing jews, supporting hate, or whatever, then fine, that should be any ones right. But to be ignorantly highly offending millions is sad and embarrassing for Thais and Thailand.

I don`t believe that the displaying of Nazi regalia in the United States, Britain and many other European countries with the exception of Germany is illegal. Also the so-called neo Nazis are still flourishing in many Western countries, then we have the right wing extremists such as, David Puke, Nick Griffin and many other cranks that openly preach the Nazi principle in the West and many Nazi fanatical groups that are using the Internet as a resource to spread the word and their warped opinions to the masses worldwide, plus countless books sold openly in bookshops and online written by neo Nazis in order to spread the word, yet, hardly anyone of prominence seems to be opposing them. Western Governments seem more interested in eliminating porn sites from the web and those created by the extremists are considered low on the agenda of priorities.

So why should Thailand not follow suit? Or should be rather; practice what we preach and first set their own houses in order before trying to install into the Thai minds what is acceptable and what is not.

Having a Jewish mother (and proud) and having lost many relatives during the Holocaust I obviously loath and detest the Nazis in whatever shape and form that appear in, would love to see them eradicated from the face of the Earth, would oppose these groups whenever possible because the fact is that if Germany would have won the war I wouldn’t be here now and it upsets and grieves me to see this sort of crap happening in Thailand. But the one thing I am not and that’s a hypocrite and believe that the first port of call for people like this Lindsay Elef should be the home front and not try to tell others to be good boys and girls and not to do what we do and please play some other sorts of games.

And as for the Thai girl students dressed in Nazi uniform, I would pay handsomely for an hour with one of those, providing she kept her uniform on of course.

You wish the eradication of a group of people based on their beliefs, yet you claim to not be a hypocrite. Hmmm...

"Hardly anyone in prominence" appears to be opposing them because there is not much to oppose. You average person understand that there are always going to be people with irrational opinions on the fringes of society, and generally the only people they can influence are their own children.

I thought it was pretty well understood that the issue in Thailand is ignorance of the symbology and not a burgeoning Neo-Nazi movement. Again, there is no point in discussing western Neo-Nazi's in a thread about Thailands Nazi Chic problem. They are not connected.

All that is being attempted here is education as to what the symbology represents to pretty much the rest of the world. No one is trying to install into Thai minds "what is acceptable and what is not."

[Beetlejuice]

Why do we never hear of people being up in arms over the left wing/commie t-shirts worn and for sale here.

Images of Che and Mao abound, no one complains.

Lets see if I have these figures correct, Hitler/Nazis lets say 15 million, Uncle Joe what 20 million, Mao 70 million?

I can see that this thread is going to turn into a discussion about Nazi philosophy compared with all the other extremist regimes that have reigned during certain periods of world history, the same boring tripe as what transpired in all the other Thai visa Hitler threads, which usually end up as platforms for all the racist and bigoted members of TV.

The fact is that the sight of Nazi regalia still brings fear and trauma into the hearts and minds of many, much more than the Che and Mao images often displayed as forms of art and tee-shirts. And just to remind those of low intellect as I did on the Past Hitler threads, that before someone mentions the Jews again, WW2 was not just about Nazis Vs Jews, there was a lot more to it than that.

I suggest that those who do not understand, read up on the history of WW2 and try to understand the full implications as to what that war was all about and why these Hitler images are still so offensive to many people worldwide and try to understand why and how they feel.

[Beetlejuice]

Please go home you stupid woman, head back to your PC paradise.

&lt;deleted&gt; cant she see the parallels, she wants to behave in the same manner as those she says offend her.

The Facist Nazi fashion police, you really couldnt make this up.

Did you even read it? She is trying to educate and get people talking about it so people can make educated decisions about it. That is the opposite of Hitler and Nazi Germany. If people want to wear it because they support killing jews, supporting hate, or whatever, then fine, that should be any ones right. But to be ignorantly highly offending millions is sad and embarrassing for Thais and Thailand.

I don`t believe that the displaying of Nazi regalia in the United States, Britain and many other European countries with the exception of Germany is illegal. Also the so-called neo Nazis are still flourishing in many Western countries, then we have the right wing extremists such as, David Puke, Nick Griffin and many other cranks that openly preach the Nazi principle in the West and many Nazi fanatical groups that are using the Internet as a resource to spread the word and their warped opinions to the masses worldwide, plus countless books sold openly in bookshops and online written by neo Nazis in order to spread the word, yet, hardly anyone of prominence seems to be opposing them. Western Governments seem more interested in eliminating porn sites from the web and those created by the extremists are considered low on the agenda of priorities.

So why should Thailand not follow suit? Or should be rather; practice what we preach and first set their own houses in order before trying to install into the Thai minds what is acceptable and what is not.

Having a Jewish mother (and proud) and having lost many relatives during the Holocaust I obviously loath and detest the Nazis in whatever shape and form that appear in, would love to see them eradicated from the face of the Earth, would oppose these groups whenever possible because the fact is that if Germany would have won the war I wouldn’t be here now and it upsets and grieves me to see this sort of crap happening in Thailand. But the one thing I am not and that’s a hypocrite and believe that the first port of call for people like this Lindsay Elef should be the home front and not try to tell others to be good boys and girls and not to do what we do and please play some other sorts of games.

And as for the Thai girl students dressed in Nazi uniform, I would pay handsomely for an hour with one of those, providing she kept her uniform on of course.

You wish the eradication of a group of people based on their beliefs, yet you claim to not be a hypocrite. Hmmm...

"Hardly anyone in prominence" appears to be opposing them because there is not much to oppose. You average person understand that there are always going to be people with irrational opinions on the fringes of society, and generally the only people they can influence are their own children.

I thought it was pretty well understood that the issue in Thailand is ignorance of the symbology and not a burgeoning Neo-Nazi movement. Again, there is no point in discussing western Neo-Nazi's in a thread about Thailands Nazi Chic problem. They are not connected.

All that is being attempted here is education as to what the symbology represents to pretty much the rest of the world. No one is trying to install into Thai minds "what is acceptable and what is not."

I agree with most of what you say, but sorry, these Nazi images portrayed in Thailand are definitely connected with Western Nazis past and present because the West is where there Nazi influences and images are copied from and while these images and influences are prevalent in the West, than these factors will have a knock on affect and will be picked up by the easy influenced and the ignorant, remembering of course that most of the Thais who have displayed these images one way or another have all claimed ignorance as the number one reason for the way they portray the Nazis, their words not mine, so I am not Thai bashing here.

No doubts this is a problem and my point is the first priority is that the problem has to eradicated from the source and then secondary from the overspill of this crap in order to clear the world of the evil Nazi legacy completely, which I doubt will ever happen, something like a cancer that can never be completely cleared from the system and has no place in any civilised society.

Edited December 12, 2013 by Beetlejuice

[7by7]

The fact is that the sight of Nazi regalia still brings fear and trauma into the hearts and minds of many, much more than the Che and Mao images often displayed as forms of art and tee-shirts.

I understand where you are coming from, particularly as you had relatives who died in the Holocaust.

But many people who had relatives who died in the Gulags or suffered in the Cultural Revolution feel the same way when they see images of Che, Stalin, Mao and other communist leaders "displayed as forms of art and tee-shirts."

Of course, it is unlikely that any of these will be posting on Thai Visa.

The Thai youth, and the youth in other Asian countries, are simply following western fashions when they wear or display such images.

Maybe it is this slavish following of western fashions which is the real problem?

Edited December 12, 2013 by 7by7

[Jingthing]

I see now. This is just the same thread we've had 100 times already about Nazi stuff in Thailand with exactly the same pro and con arguments.

About the video, I think it would be much better for this plan to be initiated by the Thai government and made a requirement in all schools. They should of course solicit advice internationally such as from the Weisenthal Center.