Grave Diservice To Foreigners By Thai English Language Press

[topfield]

Ever heard of sondhi, bhokin ,abhisit , devakula etc etc etc etc ???

Yes, you have read the names in the bangkok post and nation almost every day .

Sondhi is the firebrand publisher of manager and head of the pad

Bhokin is a bigwig in the thai rak thai party

Abhisit is leader of the democratic party

Devakula is governor of the bank of Thailand.

...or are they ?

Now try and talk to your thai friends or family about these people .

Funny but they have never heard of any of these people !!

Try explaining and after ten minutes they might possibly have heard of them.

Strange you might say.

Yes, because as spelt, if you read these names, thais will not have a clue who you are talking about ! ............. try it.

In fact their true names as spoken ...names that thais will recognise immediately are :

1. Sonti or Son-tee

2. Poh-kin

3. Apisit

4. Deva-kun.

This is just a small sample !

It is as if the bangkok post/nation do not want us to communicate with thais as they spell the names to make them totally unrecognisable when spoken to thais.

Could you imagine the english papers writing 'george push' or 'tony fair' ?

Of course not. but this is exactly what the thai english language press are doing .

Why why does the post and nation erect barriers of understanding like these between thais and foreigners ???

[CAPS removed. Please do not use caps in future posts. To people who are used to communicating on the Internet, they look extremely offensive and take away attention from the message you want to convey. /Meadish]

[Explorer]

One question for the OP - why the caps?

Explorer

[moonoi]

I would say it goes both ways with the romanisation of thai words by thai. Ever seen the differant spellings for the same place on road signs, maps etc etc

Anyway to me Sondhi (the way I say and is understood by my thai collegues) sonti and son tee maybe son tii too are pretty much the same

Oh I might add the romanised spelling normally comes from the family not the post or nation.....thats how Sondhi, Abhisit et all chose to spell there names

Dare I say OP is trolling.......

EDIT: Oh and the vast majority working for those publications are Thai too........

Edited May 11, 2006 by moonoi

[Sulaphat]

Yeah. Those pesky newspapers! What will they get up to next?

Romanizing Thai words and names like that makes them hard to understand and is aggravating. Just like using all caps to post a message.

[Camelot]

Newspapers usually spell a well-known Thai's name in English the same way he or she does. In fact, the style is usually set by the owner of the name. 'Shinnawat' is more accurate than 'Shinawatra' but the latter is how the family spells it so newspapers follow this style.

I suggest you study a bit of Pali and Sanskrit transliteration and you'll see why Thai names are spelled the way they are. This will also help you pronounce them correctly. The Thai-language Forum can help.

It can be frustrating but it's not going to change. Expect some fun when Suwarnabhumi airport opens. Thais will pronounce it Suwannapoom but Suwarnabhumi is the official spelling in English and newspapers and airlines will follow government style.

[britmaveric]

It can be frustrating but it's not going to change. Expect some fun when Suwarnabhumi airport opens. Thais will pronounce it Suwannapoom but Suwarnabhumi is the official spelling in English and newspapers and airlines will follow government style.

Think saying "New Airport" will suffice!!!

[Maestro]

Dare I say OP is trolling.......

It could be something like that. I know he is in my “ignored users” list, surely for a reason. (Haven’t read his post in this thread, nor do I wish to, having heard that it is all caps)

---------------

Maestro

[Lormaak]

No need to shout mate. All the Thais I know that read the English language dailies are too stupid to realise that Thai-English spellings are inconsistent. As for the farang, when they heard that Thaksin was having problems they said "What about that Shinawatra guy that was there before?" Stupid bar stewards!

[penzman]

I went to my usual barber for a haircut and he was off for the day so I headed to his son's shop down the road. I don't have to tell the old man how to cut it but I only had to tell his son once that I wanted my hair cut Khun Chamlong style .

[ColPyat]

NOW TRY AND TALK TO YOUR THAI FRIENDS OR FAMILY ABOUT THESE PEOPLE .

The problem could easily be solved by learning how to speak Thai with your Thai friends and family.

[naka]

01:46 a.m. posting ... nuff said ... he will cringe on re-reading it ... I always do

Naka.

[topfield]

Dear friends,

The whole point i am making is that these spellings ( romanised) by the Bkk post and Nation ( where most falang pick them up) are totally false and arbitrary.

They are not, i repeat not , transliterations from the thai

Sonti as an example has a clear t sound at the end not a d sound. So is pronounced and written in thai as Sonti with a t ( a dtee sound in fact)

I have asked several of my thai friends about Sondee just now for a trial and not a single one knew who i was speaking about. One even asked whether i meant an indian politician !! when i said Sonti they knew immediately who i was refering to !

As for the ridiculous spelling Devakula for the governor of the bank of thailand its rhymes with dracula as spelt ! Its prononciation is deva-kun . How could any thai understand dracula-devakula. not one could.

My point is that the two papers should start spelling names phonetically or do at least what the hong kong english language press do, namely.....put the correct name in brackets after the 'western' one, either romanised or transliterated or even in thai.

Westerners here who are well read in our local English papers otherwise will have a very hard time indeed communicating with Thais...which is sad

[CAPS removed. Please see note in your first post. /Meadish]

[topfield]

Oh my god...the posting above about the airport is correct !

Just asked by wife about suvarmabhumi ....of course she did not know what i was talking about.

Has the person responsible for that spelling gone mad ?

At least Don Meuang was similar and understood. Suwannapoem is so different only confusion will reign.

It’s going from bad to worse.

At least there was once a place called Bangkok so thais will know where Krungtep is.

/Caps removed. Meadish/

[The Dan Sai Kid]

DEAR FRIENDS,

THE WHOLE POINT I AM MAKING IS THAT THESE SPELLINGS ( ROMANISED) BY THE BKK POST AND NATION ( WHERE MOST FALANG PICK THEM UP) ARE TOTALLY FALSE AND ARBITRARY.

THEY ARE NOT,I REPEAT NOT , TRANSLITERATIONS FROM THE THAI

SONTI AS AN EXAMPLE HAS A CLEAR T SOUND AT THE END NOT A D SOUND. SO IS PRONOUNCED AND WRITTEN IN THAI AS SONTI WITH A T ( A DTEE SOUND IN FACT)

I HAVE ASKED SEVERAL OF MY THAI FRIENDS ABOUT SONDEE JUST NOW FOR A TRIAL AND NOT A SINGLE ONE KNEW WHO I WAS SPEAKING ABOUT. ONE EVEN ASKED WHETHER I MEANT AN INDIAN POLITICIAN !! WHEN I SAID SONTI THEY KNEW IMMEDIATELY WHO I WAS REFERING TO !

AS FOR THE RIDICULOUS SPELLING DEVAKULA FOR THE GOVERNOR OF THE BANK OF THAILAND ITS RHYMES WITH DRACULA AS SPELT ! ITS PRONONCIATION IS DEVA-KUN . HOW COULD ANY THAI UNDERSTAND DRACULA-DEVAKULA. NOT ONE COULD.

MY POINT IS THAT THE TWO PAPERS SHOULD START SPELLING NAMES PHONETICALLY OR DO AT LEAST WHAT THE HONG KONG ENGLISH LANGUAGE PRESS DO, NAMELY.....PUT THE CORRECT NAME IN BRACKETS AFTER THE 'WESTERN' ONE, EITHER ROMANISED OR TRANSLITERATED OR EVEN IN THAI.

WESTERNERS HERE WHO ARE WELL READ IN OUR LOCAL ENGLISH PAPERS OTHERWISE WILL HAVE A VERY HARD TIME INDEED COMMUNICATING WITH THAIS...WHICH IS SAD

It's just how they are transliterated. There are Thai grammer rules that when certain letters are in certain positions they have a specific sound - all that has been done is that these letters have been put in the same place when written in Roman script - though in English we have different rules for these letters. If you start learning to read Thai you will see it and it will start to make sense.

ps. please turn off your caps - it's considered shouting and is quite rude

[chuchok]

Have you been like this since birth topfield?

[lopburi3]

topfield:

You might want to download Opera browser if you are having trouble reading pages in normal font size as you can just use menu to select view/zoom/200% and you have large font size for any messages or pages you are having a problem with. It will help your eyes and our eyes too as you will then be able to type in lower case and still be able to read it. I suspect Firefox browser also has this ability. IE says it can change font size but I see no difference on this site so that is probably not the browser you want to use.

[samran]

I'd suspect most Thais wouldn't have the faintest on who the head of the BOT is here.....

Plus, remember, the English language papers here are not for expats. The bulk of the readership are English speaking Thai's. So for them to see names transliterated is no big deal, as they'd be able to figure it out.

On this note, I do have a couple of questions:

For someone who likes using CAPS because you have bad eye sight, why are you able to create your topic headings in lower case??

Also, should we start changing the English spellings of cities Edinburgh so that our American cousins are able to pronounce it?

[Kerryd]

topfield:

You might want to download Opera browser if you are having trouble reading pages in normal font size as you can just use menu to select view/zoom/200% and you have large font size for any messages or pages you are having a problem with. It will help your eyes and our eyes too as you will then be able to type in lower case and still be able to read it. I suspect Firefox browser also has this ability. IE says it can change font size but I see no difference on this site so that is probably not the browser you want to use.

His last 7 posts have been in full caps. Of his 18 posts previous to those 7, only 4 were in full caps. He does note that he has a cataract in one eye and has difficulty reading the posts (including his own replies I would imagine).

Hope he's not driving around here !

[lopburi3]

It appeared that he did try to use lower case but that it just became too much bother so he has reverted to caps again. I am using Opera in the 200% enlarge mode to write this and it is much better and auto scrolls in the reply box and for messages the line length is adjusted to fit the screen so believe he would like it and be able to type in lower case without a problem.

[Maestro]

...large font size... I suspect Firefox browser also has this ability...

For anyone interested:

In Firefox, it is Ctrl++ (hold down the Ctrl key and press the + key) to increase font size, Ctrl+- to decrease size, Ctrl+0 (zero) to return to normal size. This works also in the reply box.

---------------

Maestro

[bannork]

I don't know in which era it was decided, probably Rama 5 or 6, but it was decided to allocate an English letter, or letters to every Thai letter even though several Thai letters have the same cosonant sound, though different tonal rules. The newspapers have to follow these rules so you have the situation where His Majesty's name is written as King Bhumipol whilst the sound is in fact like King Pumipon.

Utter confusion has been the result for a long time, I'm surprised the issue hasn't been taken up by the authorities as Thailand has become more globalised

[penzman]

It doesn't apply to newspapers only. As mentioned previously, Suwarnaphum/Suvarnabhumi. Look at the road signs on the way from Bangkok to Pattaya, I' ve counted at least 3 different spellings, Pataya, Pattaya, Patthaya. Same goes for signage in National parks, museums, etc. There's even a road sign on Sukhumvit/Sukhumwit in Chonburi that directs you to the "Univercity!

[wolf5370]

DON'T MEAN TO SHOUT, I JUST WANTED TO GIVE MEADISH SOMETHING TO DO. I KNOW HE HAS GREAT FUN IN CHANGING THE CASE ON UPPER CASE POSTS - SO THIS IS FOR YOU MEADISH

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I have given up mentioning badly written signs to people in LoS. How many times in an average day in the city do you see 'English' signs using bad spelling, made up words and incomprehensible grammar? Even in Western pubs I often see people mentioning it to the owners/staff, but to no avail. The signs stay (even the chalk board ones that are easily fixed). I fear many of the Thais that are responsible for the signs are convinced their English is better than ours and it is correct (I can understand the 'face' thing, but would be easy to change it later when everyone has gone home).

[lungbing]

I live in Khon Kaen. I can understand the 'Kh' as a soft 'K' but the second 'K' is 'Gor Gai' in Thai and is not a 'K' and is much closer to a 'G' in sound.

So why isn't it written Khon Gaen or even Khon Ghaen , because that is what it sounds like when spoken by a Thai . (ignoring the different tones each word has )

Edited May 12, 2006 by lungbing

[simon43]

My understanding of why these transliteration 'errors' still occur is because the system was originally devised by a previous King (Rama IV or V). Therefore, it is simply not acceptable to change the system now because that would effectively, be criticising the King (or past King).

Simon

[phibunmike]

Have you been like this since birth topfield?

Excellent chuchok, always straight to the point

[sbk]

Also, should we start changing the English spellings of cities Edinburgh so that our American cousins are able to pronounce it?

What about Worcester and Leicester? Or Cholmondely?

English is full of words that have the same spelling and different pronunciation, it is full of inconsistencies. So, what? Thats the way it is. Does it hurt you somehow?

Lets try to find something a little less petty to complain about, shall we?

[MarkBKK]

Ever heard of sondhi, bhokin ,abhisit , devakula etc etc etc etc ???

Yes, you have read the names in the bangkok post and nation almost every day .

Sondhi is the firebrand publisher of manager and head of the pad

Bhokin is a bigwig in the thai rak thai party

Abhisit is leader of the democratic party

Devakula is governor of the bank of Thailand.

...or are they ?

Now try and talk to your thai friends or family about these people .

Funny but they have never heard of any of these people !!

Try explaining and after ten minutes they might possibly have heard of them.

Strange you might say.

Yes, because as spelt, if you read these names, thais will not have a clue who you are talking about ! ............. try it.

In fact their true names as spoken ...names that thais will recognise immediately are :

1. Sonti or Son-tee

2. Poh-kin

3. Apisit

4. Deva-kun.

This is just a small sample !

It is as if the bangkok post/nation do not want us to communicate with thais as they spell the names to make them totally unrecognisable when spoken to thais.

Could you imagine the english papers writing 'george push' or 'tony fair' ?

Of course not. but this is exactly what the thai english language press are doing .

Why why does the post and nation erect barriers of understanding like these between thais and foreigners ???

[CAPS removed. Please do not use caps in future posts. To people who are used to communicating on the Internet, they look extremely offensive and take away attention from the message you want to convey. /Meadish]

If you are clinically insane (by any recognised standard) and are accessing the Internet from a ward somewhere, I apologise in advance for saying that you are completely mad. Go home and ask mummy (or, I suspect, ''mommy'') to look after you.

Unless you are simply a troll, in which case, nice one

[MarkBKK]

My understanding of why these transliteration 'errors' still occur is because the system was originally devised by a previous King (Rama IV or V). Therefore, it is simply not acceptable to change the system now because that would effectively, be criticising the King (or past King).

Simon

The problem is inconsistancy. Trying to transliterate a language, using several methods at the same time, that contains sounds that simply don't exsist in any ''Western'' language and a different alphabet is the problem. The ''official'' Royal Thai General System of Transcription isn't perfect, as are none of the others, but if we all used the same one it might be less difficult.

None of the transliterations are ''errors'', merely different methods of transliterating. Hence the probems. If you know which system is used, it's easier, if you don't, it's much harder.

Trying to pronounce transliterations of Thai without knowing which system is being used is hilarious (hence the ''Phat Phong'' sign at the top of ''Pat Pong'').

Even funnier is ''straight'' English pronounciation, in various regional accents, of various transliterations, with no knowledge of how they're supposed to be pronounced ...

Edited May 12, 2006 by MarkBKK

[topfield]

All we falang want, is to be able to read a name or place in the Bangkok Post or Nation and for Thais to know who/what we are refering to. ... the exact spelling is unimportant

Is that too much to ask ?

no Thai in the 60 million population would know who 'Devakula' (rhymes with Dracula ) is .

say 'Teva-goon' and they know immediately.....the BOT governor !!